This comment came by email from a reader named Scott Wolf today…
Hi there, I wanted to know if you have thought about requiring posters to have real names (or let posters see who is really posting).
I’ve actually thought about it a lot. And so have many of the other Village 14 bloggers and readers. And I was thinking about it yesterday when I read Ty Burr’s column “Offering some comments on commenting” in Sunday’s Boston Globe. You should read the whole thing, but here’s an excerpt…
….I and many of my colleagues don’t consider the Globe commenterati — those posters who regularly express themselves on multiple articles — to be representative of the average reader. Rather, they’re representative of a specific subtype of reader, one who wants or needs to be heard. They may be compelled by a genuine interest in discussion or a desire to share thoughts or knowledge — or sometimes resentment, loneliness, a need to amuse the troops, or sheer boredom. In the worst-case scenarios, they can seek to overwhelm the conversation and drive more moderate voices away.
…and this a little later:
The real issue is anonymity …anonymity in the context of digital speech — in every variety of social media, as 25 years of the Internet have taught us — enables a great deal of ugliness and bullying. It can let loose the demons of the id, because it’s people being held to account for the things they say that allows us to live together peaceably and civilization to even function. Yet there’s a double-bind here: Identifying oneself online, especially in the case of women commenters, could potentially open the door to harassment in real life. There’s no easy answer.
Anonymous comments, as Burr points out, can have value when someone who might otherwise feel marginalized or attacked or can’t comment for work or other reasons. We also have some extraordinary participants here who choose to be anonymous; Fignewtonville being my favorite example. You may have yours.
But it seems — and this is certainly true on Village 14 — there are some mean anonymous participants here who would never write the things they write if they were using their real name.
And it’s likely going to get worse as we head into our fall city elections — a time when tensions and commenting here always gets heated — and with several development projects and zoning now before the city council.
Is it time for Village 14 to switch to real name comments only? I’m on the fence. But I’m looking forward to hearing from you, with or without your real name.
As someone who comments on Village 14 under my own name (even if I have not figured out how to include a photo), I take most seriously the comments of those willing to stand behind what they write. Letters to the editor in newspapers require a name. I have never understood the value of doing something different when the medium was digital, but that’s just my own view.
Today, we live in a world where a person who may not agree with “illegal” immigration can be fired from their job. Anyone who does not “conform” has to be careful about speaking their views…
Accurate points around anonymous posting and how people tend to be more careful in their words when linked to real names, not sure v14’s environment is at the point where that needs to be a hard requirement. I’d describe most of the heated discussions as “chippy” morethan outright vitriolic. The decisions around zoning and development are going to have long lasting impacts on the city so those are going to be more heated regardless of anonymity. Also not a guarantee that requiring names will have an impact if some of the recent public forums are an indicator. I’d guess either way people are going to be chippy with the focus on development this fall.
As one who uses a screen name, I am of course opposed to having to “out” myself.
Like @Fig, I have been a participant on this blog for many years, always using the same screen name. Never once have I been inappropriate in any of my comments.
But if required to use a real name, I will no longer be able to participate.
I am a city employee that strongly believes that any opposing opinion I might share about a subject could very easily be used against me in the workplace. I can not afford to let that happen.
I’ve said this before….if I used a “real” name, such as “John Smith” or “Mary Jones”, who would know if that was my actual name? And would that make me more credible?
If there are people using screen names for the sole purpose of attacking or bullying others, the moderators can address that.
I remain TheWholeTruth….
Signed letters to a newspaper may bring out higher quality comments (debatable, given the history of letters to the Newton Tab) but I don’t see evidence that it produces anything more representative. The local newspaper also has its trolls and set of regular commenters, just a more confined space for comments.
It’s not adequate to compare microfiche archives with indexed Internet content, and making these comparisons it’s important to note that letters to the Tab are typically not published online. Many would not post here with their real names, some even for the fear of bullying or being associated with other’s comments by search engines, and I think it would be a loss to V14. Add to this the fact that those who maintain this blog have no mechanism to validate identities. I feel what we have is not perfect, but it works. If the reader chooses to assign less merit to anonymous comments, so be it.
I put my full name in CAPS so that Greg and others can read it without their spectacles. Also I’ve never posted anything that people took issue with that I did not take to heart and learn from. 82 banging on 83 means you don’t have to be entirely right about anything. But maybe, just maybe, my experiences can benefit others.
As a woman with disabilities living alone, I would not be comfortable posting with my full name. I have met a few V14 members in person and been happy to introduce myself but that’s different from telling a world of anonymous strangers.
We have some very courteous posters with pseudonyms and some who use their names and can be quite venomous. And there are some good thoughtful discussions with both named and unnamed participants.
I won’t be commenting with my real name due to work and local volunteering, but TheWholeTruth brings up a good point: couldn’t I just make up a last name?
Keep in mind that if you comment using your real name, anything you post here will forever appear in every google search of your name. Not everyone wants that – many people would rather not participate. Yes, you get the occasional troll on V14, but you also get an honest discussion that may not be possible otherwise. Finally, as others have said, you cannot realistically enforce real names. The best you can do is to require consistent pseudonyms, as is happening now.
Newtoner – I think it depends on how long Village14 saves posts. For example, the Newton TAB changed hands and its blog disappeared.
I think it would be a change for the better. Anonymity is a valuable journalistic tool. But its value comes from a journalist vetting, without disclosing, the source. Anonymity with no gatekeeper is just a free pass to say what you want with no consequences and no context.
Since V14 has basically become our news source now, lets make sure we know who we’re reading.
The majority of pseudonymous commenters are quite reasonable and I would not want to lose their participation, and anyone persistently nasty I just take with a dose of skepticism. So I would not want to require real names. But I do think it would be good for anything that looks like a real name, e.g. first name, last name, actually be the real name. If you want to use a pseudonym, it should clearly look like a pseudonym, or be first name only.
Internet search history is a valid concern. I wonder if this would work for people whose only concern is internet search (not that they work for the city, or have kids in Newton school, or something like that), and would like the extra credibility of identifying themselves to other participants in V14 : have a guide to pseudonym: real name under About, for example, that is a JPEG, not text. Or has Google gotten so smart that it can recognize text in a JPEG? Maybe the letters could be those weird Captcha type letters.
ding, ding, ding – V14 Word of the Week Award goes to Patrick Butera for “chipiness”. Love that.
OK. I guess its time for to give up my anonymous pseudonym and start posting under my real name – it’s Gerard. While I’m at it I’ll try to work on my chipiness too.
@Councilor Lisle Baker – Just click on the “Photo Avatars” at the top of the page. It will give you some simple instructions on how to include your smiling face with your posts … or any other image you choose.
A point of clarification – just because something like the Newton Tab Blog (May it Rest In Peace) is gone, it doesn’t mean it’s contents has “disappeared.” Lucia, thanks to the WayBack Machine, I just read a comment you made on a 2010 TAB blog post about a transportation safety discussion at City Hall. So don’t count on a blog’s untimely death to erase your digital foot print.
Why don’t you have a grandfather clause for everyone like fignewtonville, etc that have used pseudo names all this time and a compromise going forward. Going forward a person can have a nickname given the right reason…I think being a city employee is having a good enough reason to keep anonymity. Greg or the committee that runs the blog would make that decision. Just my 2 cents.
Many people here have given good reasons to hide their names; but at the same time it kind of nullifies the whole concept of this being a “village” when so many are hiding behind false identifiers.
I prefer anonymous. I post alot about the schools and I would NOT want my kids to feel any kind of pressure from someone who read my post here. These are my views to share. I communicate with the schools regularly, but it doesn’t mean I want someone reading Village 14 and speaking to the school team of what I wrote.
Many people just troll and read sites, and I have decided that my legal name shall remain off this site. There are enough places where people can steal my identity and since there is a public site and behind a password protected place my real name will remain a secret.
My Facebook identity is not someone can just search and find. I have made it difficult and used all the privacy settings that I can.
Maybe I should make up a “legal” name instead of NewtonMom. No one will know if it is”real” or not. But I will remain NewtonMom.
Lest I seem callous, I fully support the decision of some posters to remain anonymous because of personal vulnerabilities or positions they hold in the community. It does make it a bit frustrating when someone like “Jack” in a recent post leveled several charges against me that were misplaced or patently false. I am hardly cowed by any of this and I have no difficulty setting the record straight when needed. Nor does the prospect that future generations will have access to what I write here or elsewhere concern me. The deepest fear that many seniors have is that they will die and be quickly forgotten. This proves that there is at least a faint chance that won’t happen.
@Greg — I post as myself as a reminder to remain a decent human being, and often value the posts from identified posters the most. That said, the hidden posters may have good reasons to remain unknown, and most of them are thoughtful. I can really think of only two persistent V14 posters whom I’d identify as trolls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll). One posts anonymously, and one by his name. You once advised me not to respond to their provocations. That good advice has served me well.
I’d say leave it be unless the anger really gets out of control. Relative to the Globe’s comments pages. V14 is a salon [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon_(gathering)]. I suspect this is because you and the other moderators ride herd on the worst offenders and the most out-of-control threads. As we approach the election, and the rhetoric heats up, please continue this excellent work.
Jane- your village comment might be valid if the whole internet couldn’t see v14.
Bryan- none of the people who can put up new posts idea anonymous so you already know who the news is coming from.
I’m guessing Ty Burr’s comments were prompted by the Red Sox visit to the White House last week, and who did (and didn’t) go. The combination of Globe (still the biggest and best local news source) + Red Sox (still the most important team in Boston) + John Henry (who owns both) + visit to White House and President Trump + some players choosing not to go + inevitable social media firestorm = major controversy no matter what. Any one of these subjects alone generates white hot rage, but together they proved such a combustible mix that went off in such a manner as to raise the specter that nasty comments critical of Henry were removed because he is the owner/publisher.
We don’t know if this is true. No doubt many of said comments were anonymous and nasty in a way I couldn’t fathom. But I can’t help but wonder that Burr’s article might not have run if Henry didn’t own one or both of the Globe and the Red Sox. But that’s a story for another day.
V14 is obviously much different than the Globe. I’ve not been on V14 as long as many of you have, but I’ve yet to see anything I would consider unprintable or unspeakable, even with a good number of anonymous users.
But appropriateness is largely in the eye of the beholder. What one considers a baseless personal attack is an important question that must be answered by others. It seems that more than a few folks seem genuinely surprised to come across viewpoints they probably don’t hear or see anywhere else in their daily lives. In particular, those who are in (or are running) for office have a higher standard, and should expect to be asked tough questions or criticisms, even if it’s often unpleasant. They should be appreciated for their efforts. But they really shouldn’t be surprised.
I can totally understand why those folks who admirably stand up for what they believe in only to be critiqued by those using pseudonyms or are otherwise not known may be frustrated. But there are also many others who would not (and cannot) comment under their real names for the risk of career/personal/social repercussions, both now and in the future. It’s a real thing, and not just because of real or perceived political correctness. That’s why I use my first name (I go by Ted) but not more.
Sure, v14 could ban posts by anonymous user names, but the site would be much less robust as a result. It would be the same voices talking to each other, and probably agreeing with themselves, which I’m guessing isn’t the idea of what V14 should be.
So in the end, when dealing with controversy, I hope that V14 administrators should be guided by the content of the comments and not necessarily by the names of the users.
Building an online reputation for companies is a part of what I do, and I know that a high percentage of online reviews on Yelp and Facebook and Google are fake. I know this because clients ask me to do it again and again.
I loathe the power that an anonymous poster is given and have witnessed the damage that anonymity can do to a business. Anonymity fuels the underbelly of the internet. It is the calling card of spammers, flamers, bullies, and scammers.
Especially now, as our politicians and their strategists launch a full frontal assault on what is true and our respect for truth as a universal value has been devalued, I believe it is more important than ever that we err on the side on being authentic.
What about ‘Illegals’ – That’s a tough one. That could be a loss for V14. See compromise below.
What about the woman with disabilities living alone?
I believe there are far more benefits and safety available from being known in your community than being anonymous. And the truth is one is RARELY – IF EVER anonymous online. With Greg’s help it’s likely we could identify everyone here
What about not wanting your kids to be pressured about your opinions on schools and education? What a great learning experience that would be.
What about city workers, well-known and politicians who fear retaliation?
If you are so fearful of speaking your mind, you may want to look into whether you should be in the position you’re holding. In my experience, rarely is living in the closet a good idea.
How will this impact V14’s content?
For some, this will end their participation. There are some for who V14 is a part of their daily routine and going public will end the party. But I think that would be good for V14. If you’re a regular, you may not realize how intimidating and inaccessible this place can be. If you’re a ‘cool kid’ here, be an advocate for inclusion and participation.
I believe in internet transparency because I know that internet privacy is a falsehood. Never say anything online that you wouldn’t want printed front page of your local paper.
A solution in compromise – In the case of respected contributors that have stood the test of time and would not post otherwise, V14 could create an anonymous contributor status. These are folks who are either invited by V14 or can make a case to V14 via a form (anonymously of course) that it is necessary that they remain anonymous.
As we head into a new political season and given the current state of our political system, I think most people are looking for ways that we can do better.
This is one.
Mike Ciolino
360 Waltham Street
West Newton, MA 02465
I say, keep it the way it is. We want people to be engaged and if folks feel the only way they can do so is by posting anonymously, then so be it. This is a blog – not a news source. It is a place where people can share their opinions and thoughts and yes – sometimes post nasty, personalized attacks at each other (I’ve been the recipient of quite a few) which hopefully informs all of us posting or just reading, of the different types of viewpoints that exist within our own community.
I would lean toward preserving handles, if only because virtually all the handles are well-known repeat posters. I don’t think there has been a problem with hit-and-run anonymous attacks or profanity. Cranks on the board will still be cranks, whether or not they (we?) use real names or handles.
I’ve posted my name before (Brian Washburn – I’ve happily lived outside Newton Centre for more than 25 years). But V14 posters know “Dulles”. They don’t know “Brian Washburn” from a hole in the wall.
Originally I used a handle because I was on a city committee under Mayor Cohen (in addition to volunteer work over the years with the Conservators, Green Decade, and the Tree Conservancy… I also would’ve dearly liked to join the Bicycle/Pedestrian Task Force but ran out of spare time) — originally I was worried that personal opinions might be tied to unrelated volunteer work. Now it’s just momentum.
@Amy ‘This is a blog – not a news source.’
So not true. If I *really* want to know what is going on in Newton on a topic I come here. Hands down.
Greg … News source or nah?
Just add a ‘ignore anonymous’ feature.. lets ppl decide if they only want to be in an echo chamber….
Mike – the line between blogs and legitimate news sources is certainly not as bright as it once was, but there are important distinctions. That V14 can be used as a viable source of news is really a testament to Greg and Jerry and the other folks who post here. But blog posts are not news articles – there’s no expectation of objectivity, or requirement for multiple sources, or even fact checking. They are, by design, personal. Which is why the folks who *post* on this blog are NOT anonymous – it wouldn’t work if they were.
Village 14 is not a news site and never has aspired, pretended or presented itself as one.
I think it’s reasonable for people not to want to give their names for the many reasons stated above.
The more important issue is for the editors to remove snarky and mean comments and ask the posters to re-state their position in a more neighborly way before re-posting. This doesn’t happen that often, but it happens more than it should by both anonymous and named individuals.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed some really thoughtful comments here. I’m hoping more of my fellow Village 14 bloggers will weigh in as well. Please keep the conversation going.
For now, a reminder and an note. Village 14 is an all volunteer operation, featuring a dozen or more blogggers at any time. All of us do different things and none of us have the time or inclination to read every comment. So yes, it sounds nice to say we should moderate anonymous comments more closely, or weed out the snark, it’s not something anyone does full time, or even part time.
If you haven’t read our commenting rules, lately, please take a minute to review them. In particular if you’re a candidate for office, or working for a candidate, you’ll want to pay particular attention to Rule #4.
From someone who does not write very often: I do give more weight to comments written under the author’s own name but understand that it is not always possible, for many reasons.
I am grateful that Greg removed at least one comment that was over the top. Occasionally, authors of snarky remarks get an earful from several readers and hopefully, it serves as a reality check for everyone to stay civil.
It is fun to get to know the anonymous authors: I am glad that Dulles, for instance, is not going to change.
@Mike Ciolino,
As one of the anonymous posters that you felt it necessary to call out, I take offense to the “living in the closet” description you chose to describe me as. Although I am not speaking for them, I suspect NewtonMom, Meredith and MMQC might also feel the same way. You have no idea what I do and have no reason to attack me. The fear or threat of retaliation in the workplace, in schools and in one’s own home is real. Might I suggest you rethink commenting so harshly on people you know nothing about.
I understand why people may use V14 for their local news as the Tab and Patch of grown increasingly sparse, but I think it’s shaky territory for people to consider this an actual news site.
I obviously don’t see the comments that go into a moderation queue, but as far as local blogs go I think we generally have pretty respectful discourse here. While the internet is rife with trolls, I think V14 is mostly free of that and we’re pretty lucky.
@who-ever-you-are
Regarding my previous post ‘If you are so fearful of speaking your mind, you may want to look into whether you should be in the position you’re holding. In my experience, rarely is living in the closet a good idea’
Thanks, No, I’ll stand by my words. My experience with living in closets is that they can be a frustrating, lonely place to live.
As far as I can tell V14 is intended to be a community blog to discuss community issues and I don’t think having anonymous posters serves the community very well.
You choose to work for the city … a decision that comes with consequences – It seems to me that you want your cake and to eat it too. (or however, that phrase goes)
What isn’t fair however is being bullied on a community blog by an anonymous angry person. I’m not here to attack anyone. Seriously.
I believe anonymity – the lack of transparency is the root of many of our society’s problems. If I knew you, I could be more understanding and maybe have more empathy. Maybe we could even grab a coffee and become friends.
@Jane Hanser said it better than I “Many people here have given good reasons to hide their names; but at the same time it kind of nullifies the whole concept of this being a “village” when so many are hiding behind false identifiers.”
@mike,
I’m fairly certain I would not wish to be friends with someone who is so unwilling to accept another persons opinion. The tone of your words borders on bullying and I’m all set with that. Have a great day.
Greg, is that your real name or are you hiding behind a pseudo name???
@mike…your condescending and judgmental attitude is the very reason some of us choose to post anonymously.
Now I regret posting anything at all. Condescending and judgmental isn’t anything I’ve been called in my life ever. Maybe I hit this too hard for what it is – At the end of the day, it’s not really that important. Sorry if I caused anyone ill feelings – Enjoy the rest of your evening.
Anonymous comments should be allowed everywhere online to prevent the silencing of unpopular opinions and to protect the safety of commenters.
Most of you have probably forgotten me by now. I established the pseudonym I’m using for this comment about six months ago just to comment on a subject which is important to me. At the time, I thought I might comment occasionally, but since this blog’s owner and regular commenters prefer far left positions on most issues, I just lurk and “like” (thumbs up) any comments I agree with. However, I felt I had to say something here because someone who commented on this blog post made comments which are not entirely accurate and which made me fearful for the safety and welfare of some of the regular commenters. I am referring to statements made by Mike Ciolino.
I am a long-time Newton resident who worked as a Web Developer for a number of years. I know quite a bit about websites, cyber security and online privacy. Unlike Mike, I am a WOMAN. It was because of men like Mike, who espouse commonly-held views about Web design, Web development and the Internet (that they — the men — all repeat), that I left the field. The men in that field think they know everything and if a woman tries to tell them that they are wrong, they dismiss whatever she says because they see women as incapable of understanding technology, or anything requiring rational thought, for that matter.
I mention this because Mike gave extremely bad and dangerous advice to female commenters, who I hope will not listen to him. I also hope that they read my comment because I want them to be safe.
Over the years, I have either met or become aware of many women who were publishing content online (such as bloggers) or who were participating in discussion forums under their real names. I could tell you horror stories about problems some of them had because their true identities were known to people who could find them in the real world. One woman was stalked and assaulted. Several others had to relocate to other states to escape death threats. Overall, women are far less safe online than men, so if you are a woman, you must be careful about what you post, and where. You also must use discretion when choosing a screen name for any online service. Do not use your real name unless you are prepared to defend yourself against all forms of harassment.
The bottom line is that anonymity plays a different role for females online than it does for males. Men are generally not harassed and attacked online the way women are. They are less frequent victims of threats and stalking. Without anonymity, women’s opinions would be virtually silenced online. Further, women are always judged more harshly than men for their opinions. This means that women could face repercussions in their jobs or in their community for stating the same things that men seem to get away with saying.
As for whether or not to allow anonymity in comment sections, I would like to mention one problem I have encountered in forums where validated names were required. Making this a requirement not only eliminates many opinions from people who cannot speak freely under their real names, but it also results in an increase in people posing as others. In other words, imposters sign up with a real person’s name in order to express their views. Catching these people is not always as easy as one might imagine, so I would consider this problem before banning anonymous comments.
One other point I’d like to make is that it is not entirely accurate to say that everything you post online can be traced back to you. In most cases, this is true. In some cases it is not. Various anonymity methods can be employed when commenting which can shield you from having your identity exposed, but none of them are foolproof. This is where I agree with Mike. Since anonymity can never be guaranteed online you should think very carefully before posting anything controversial.
My final thought on this matter is that I have noticed the distinct absence of a regular commenter who posts comments (under his real name) which are contrary to the predominant (liberal) views on this blog. He has been accused of “hate speech” when saying perfectly reasonable things. Only a liberal would interpret his words as “hate speech.” Yet he seems to have stopped commenting here. I wonder if using his real name has made it difficult for him to say what he really thinks. Whether you agree with him or not, his comments express views held by other Newton residents, and as such, should be responded to. Let’s not make this blog an echo chamber, please.
For the record, this “blog’s owner” is a company in Quincy called Serpcom, which hosts this site in exchange for the ad revenue. The rest us are volunteers and receive no compensation. (I do own the URL, so technically Village 14 cost me something in yearly fees.) Serpcom has been agnostic politically here. As for our commenters, politically I think it’s pretty diverse, perhaps more diverse than Newton in general.
Also, let’s give Mike Ciolino some credit for apologizing for his comments. That’s not something that happens nearly enough these days on this site or in general.
Ubiety,
Thank you. That was well written and safety is priority number one.
In addition, just because the greater community doesn’t know my “legal name” I am a consistent poster and most will know my view on a subject before I write under my name. To me, NewtonMom, is my legal name on this blog.
Thank you
In response to Ubiety: Strangely, I’ve always viewed V14 as having a distinctly conservative tendency. Maybe it’s in the eye of the beholder.
But I completely agree with you about the response to women on the internet in general and on Village 14 in particular. As a long time participant beginning on the Newton Tab blog, I can say with confidence that a number of the male posters aren’t as “highly evolved” as they think they are. In addition, I’ve had several men engage in outright bullying, including men in leadership roles in the city. But it has gotten better in recent years. Ten years ago, you could count the number of women who posted here on one hand, and our comments were ignored for the most part. We now have a number of women who post, some using their first name which is an option I used for years. On this thread alone, a significant percentage of the posts are from women.
On the other hand, I will relate a story from the past to illustrate what can be the downside of anonymous posting unrelated to gender. I used to post as “jane” and there’s a long time poster who doesn’t come around much anymore who posts under the name “Terry Malloy”. We didn’t know one another in real life, but disagreed about every topic on the blog and could get into some pretty heated discussions. Eventually, one or the other of us (think it was him) found contact information for the other and we decided to have coffee. Upon meeting, we were laughing hysterically about our “blog battles” within about two minutes and talked for a long time about family, Newton, etc. He’s now one of my favorite people in Newton. Anonymity can take away the possibility for such real life connections.
Two final notes, think about whether you’d post your real thoughts about your employer on a company blog. We can all safely say no one in his/her right mind would ever do such a thing. That’s the position The Whole Truth is in and in my opinion, it should be respected.
As for NewtonMom’s concerns: many years ago I promised my teenage sons that as an activist parent, I would try hard not to do anything that would embarrass them – they reminded me that this was their community too, and they were right. NewtonMom and other parents shouldn’t be discouraged from posting because they have children with their own identities and emerging personalities.
I guess all of this makes me an agnostic about anonymous posting!
I have come around on this issue and believe there are very legitimate reasons for commenters–and women in particular–not to use their real names. While this is a view that has evolved over time, it came to an Epiphany when I listened to the episode of This American Life in which Lindy West interviewed an internet troll who tormented her on Twitter, where many women receive rape and death threats from trolls or may get “doxxed.”
While I admire people who comment under their own names, I no longer judge comments by whether the author is anonymous or not. I (try to) judge each opinion by its content. If someone is a troll, they will reveal it whether they use their own name or a pseudonym. And my motto is “Don’t feed the trolls.”
I think Mike Ciolino was treated very unfairly on this thread. He pointed out some of the problems associated with online anonymity, and was promptly skewered by anonymous commenters. He could have chosen some of his words more carefully. But his point was valid nonetheless…
Most of the reasons people have cited here for posting under a pseudonym are based on personal safety. In my opinion that’s reason enough to leave the V-14 policy the way it currently is. But there’s a flip-side to that argument as well…
Sometimes it’s the anonymous bloggers who are the bullies. It’s very easy to launch personal attacks behind a cloak of anonymity. For example, an anonymous blogger on Village 14 filed an anonymous complaint against me with the State Elections Commission, baselessy claiming I was illegally funding the recent “Respect the Vote” campaign. It was only through a mistake by the Elections Commission that I found out who that person was…
The moral of the story… People should always think twice about the credibility of anonymous comments.
Yes, posters should be required to include their full name. It improves honest dialogue where only responsible people would comment.
I used to have more of an issue with anonymous commenters, preferring posts with (what I assume to be!) real names. But after a while, you get to know the handles of the anonymous posters and they don’t seem quite as anonymous.
I will agree with some of Mike C’s points. Generally speaking, anonymous posts send the content down the tubes. But that doesn’t seem to have happened here. And that could also happen even with people using real names.
I suppose the other option is we all go anonymous and choose handles! I better start thinking of a cool name. Is TB12 taken?
I find myself right in the middle because I use my first name, and while I would never use a pseudonym, I wouldn’t feel entirely comfortable including my last name.
@Jane Frantz wrote: “Strangely, I’ve always viewed V14 as having a distinctly conservative tendency. Maybe it’s in the eye of the beholder.”
Jane, it’s interesting you should say that. It supports a theory of mine that many people who read and participate in comment sections see the content as skewed in the other direction from their own position. I think we all do that, to some extent, because comments which offend us make a greater impression on us.
In case you’re interested, my conclusions about the political bent of this blog were based on an analysis I did over a period of about a year. I counted the number of regular commenters (defined as those who made at least one comment per week) who wrote liberal and conservative comments. I also analyzed the content the bloggers posted during this time period. Would it surprise you to learn that there were only four commenters who consistently wrote “right-of-center” (conservative-leaning) comments? I think the reason the blog seems conservative to you is that these four people post a lot of comments. (Just so you know, my own views are left-of-center.)
An example of far-left blogging on Village 14 is Sean Roche’s post from February 2019 (“Baker: Newton is a city where people drive”) where he tore apart Councilor Lisle Baker (Ward 7) for his stance on parking requirements for new construction, which was based on the premise that Newton residents prefer to drive (not walk and bike). Among other things, Sean claimed that Councilor Baker’s use of the word “urban” would be interpreted as “code” since it is 2019. It’s only code if you are a liberal who thinks that “urban” means “low-income” and “People-of-color,” and, “suburban” means “rich white people who want to keep the poor People-of-color out of their neighborhood.” To everyone who is *not* a liberal (e.g. moderates and conservatives), “urban” means “congestion, high-rise buildings, high population with over-crowding, and lots of concrete” and, “suburban” means “mostly residential homes, few businesses or multi-story buildings and lots of open space and trees.”
Sean is a proponent of high density environments with walkable/bikeable communities. For the record, I walk to do my errands on a daily basis, and have been an avid cyclist for many years. However, before Sean ripped Councilor Baker to shreds for being a rich white guy who just wanted to drive to West Newton to see how those on the other side of the tracks live before returning to his rich enclave, he should have spent some time in Chestnut Hill. Like all liberals, Sean stereotypes everyone, possibly because liberals want all people to have “identities.”
If he spent some time in Chestnut Hill, he would discover many people living there who are Middle Class or even lower income (seniors or disabled individuals on fixed incomes). Perhaps he doesn’t know that there are many condos and rental apartments in Chestnut Hill. Despite the proximity of shopping to these people (there must be hundreds of them, at least), including two (2) grocery stores, it is rare to see anyone walking on the street in Chestnut Hill with shopping bags. Nearly everyone I know who lives in that area drives their car across the street to shop. And these are *not* wealthy people living in mansions. Therefore, my conclusions about why Councilor Baker took the stance he did are far different from Sean’s liberal stance. I would assume that since Councilor Baker lives in the area, he has either witnessed this phenomenon himself, or his constituents brought it to his attention. Although this post was more extreme than most, the topics the bloggers select are often liberal or neutral, but never conservative.
@Greg Reibman wrote: “For the record, this “blog’s owner” is a company in Quincy called Serpcom, which hosts this site in exchange for the ad revenue. The rest us are volunteers and receive no compensation. (I do own the URL, so technically Village 14 cost me something in yearly fees.) Serpcom has been agnostic politically here.”
Greg, you do know that in Web parlance you are considered to be the “owner” of this website. Unless you have sold the domain name, village14[dot]com to Serpcom, and/or you have an agreement with them that they are responsible for the website’s content (which you and the other bloggers create), you are the “legal” owner (the party people will contact first for problems, such as DMCA violations). According to your “About” page, Serpcom is only responsible for maintenance and tech support for this site, not content. In any event, I do think it makes sense for you to clarify that you are not profiting financially from this blog.
@Ted Hess-Mahan, Thanks for providing more information about the safety problems women face online. The interview you linked to should be a real eye-opener for people who are unaware of the extent and severity of this problem.
I am a regular anonymous poster who similar reasons to Newton Mom’s. I also would not post using my full name. I think as Dan Foley mentioned even with anonymous handles over time you get a feel on a particular handle’s interests/views and how they lean. Fig Newtonville is one of my favorite posters here. I belong to another board (of mostly women) where everyone has an anonymous handle and I feel like the posters still have unique identities to me. Interstinly enough the only portion of the site that is restricted is the politics sub forum which equires that the poster have a been registered for a certain length of time and have made a certain number of posts. I know who to ignore etc.
Ubiety – I also did a count several years ago that related to the number of discrete bloggers who posted on what was supposedly a highly controversial issue with lots of comments, well into the 80-90 posts or so. The number of posters was in the single digits and in no way represented the views of the community. At times, V14 and several of the listservs could be renamed Five Guys.
A reader’s general interest also may skew one’s perspective. I never read threads related to parking or snow removal. Just not of interest to me and I scroll on by. I’m sure most people do the same.
I didn’t like Sean’s post about Baker, either. In fact, I frequently find myself cringing when I read Sean’s posts because of his tone. I do think that there’s an issue with the smugness and snark of some of the men who blog here – e.g. Greg, Chuck, Sean. And they blog with their real, full names! On the flip side we have people like Newton Highlands Mom, Newton Runner, The Whole Truth, and fignewtonville who regularly contribute thoughtful commentary.
Hi – I apologized because someone here said my comments were condescending and judgmental and that’s not something I want to be known for.
I think this thread is incredibly insightful about how we interact with each other. An anonymous poster ‘Ubiety’ posted:
“men like Mike, who espouse commonly-held views … they think they know everything and if a woman tries to tell them that they are wrong, they dismiss whatever she says because they see women as incapable of understanding technology, or anything requiring rational thought, for that matter.”
What ‘Ubiety’ doesn’t know is that for my entire career, I’ve worked under some of Boston’s strongest woman business leaders, that I come from an extended family where the women are respected and call the shots, that my mom divorced my dad due to his misogynistic attitude and that I lost my closest friend and mentor of 30 years last May to uterine cancer. ‘Ubiety’ also said that I gave ‘extremely bad and dangerous advice to female commenters.’
I want to be clear that I never intended to give advice to anyone. I believe that folks need to make their own decisions in life and do what works for their own life.
That said, it’s not fair, to attack those who offer a different perspective or disagree with the decisions that you have made. Without looking at different perspectives, we wouldn’t grow.
In my post, I said, “In my experience, rarely is living in the closet a good idea.” This comes from my personal experience. I came of age in the late 70’s – a time when being gay was something to hide. I experienced first hand the loss of relationship, opportunity and love that comes along with not sharing your true self.
Keeping your true self from the people in your life requires deceit (lies, half-lies, lies by omission) I learned 1st hand that a simple lack of sharing your thoughts and experience has a cost that shows up in your relationships.
I also want to be clear that I don’t believe you are wrong or a bad person if you decide to be stealth, there may be unintended consequences, and it may not be as safe – But there is undoubtedly a loss in the quality of your relationships that you can’t argue with. And I think this is illustrated so well in this thread.
Anonymous poster ‘TheWholeTruth’ says “I’m fairly certain I would not wish to be friends” – I genuinely believe that in person, under the right circumstances, with few exceptions, we all would be friends with each other here.
I now think that that in theory, V14 should either all be public or all be stealth. But given that there is a community already in place, maybe keeping it as is would be best.
Mike
@Mike Ciolini. Thanks for sharing this openly and on line. I, too, worked under some very strong women at EPA and various state agencies. They became mentors at critical points in my professional life. Some also became friends and remain so to this day. Some of them even said they liked having me around because it was clear I didn’t mind having women as bosses. Why should I have had a problem?? Why would I want to threaten women or anyone else for that matter. The fact of the matter was I generally enjoyed working for women more than men because things generally moved far more collaboratively and I tend to be collaborative in approaching things.
I’ve also enjoyed taking the stab and doing the first and second drafts of some major studies, documents and reports and women made this process a lot easier. It takes a thick skin and a sense of humor to do this because you get clobbered with corrections, additions, etc. and it’s brought home clearly just what a flawed human being I am. But it’s also kind of a high. The corrections almost always improve the product and it still kind of has my name on it when it’s rolled out to the Congress, states or the public. Those that make corrections are seldom singled out, but the guy that did the first draft is.
I’d like to add that I am one of the women who comments on this site under a pseudonym. I read V14 almost every day and contribute once in a while. The reason I don’t use my real name is one of safety; a few years ago I was stalked while running by a man (not someone I knew or anyone I had a relationship with) and there was police involvement. The stalking went on for a very long time and eventually he tried to physically get me into his car. I feel safer not putting my real name out there.
@Mike Ciolino
Your last post was so much more insightful and honest and for that I commend you. As Greg said, standing up and making an apology speaks volumes about a person.
So with that said, and reading your more thoughtful post, I too can say that I could be wrong about not wanting to be friends.
Maybe V14 will have another bloggers party and those of us that seek safety in anonymity can out ourselves in that setting.
Ubiety writes:
I have been persuaded by the comments above that requiring names might chill useful speech by people who feel at risk from being identified. At the same time, knowing Sean Roche’s identity allowed me to invite him to breakfast where I learned of his passion for doing whatever he can to prevent the impacts of climate change. His post also helped me learn that I am while words like urban and suburban to me mean land use density, to other ears they are code for exclusion, or worse. (I am reminded of the adage that a gentleman never insults anyone unintentionally, and that what may be benignly intended may be received as hurtful. My apologies.)
Finally, readers may impute to me more resources than I have because of my address, which simply occurred because a nursery school parent told us the very old house next door was for sale over 40 years ago when Sally and I needed more room for our growing family that we could afford on an educator’s limited salary. In the meantime, I can be reached at home at 617-566-3848 if anyone else on this blog would like to talk over issues with me in person. Finally, thanks to Jerry Reilly for his suggestion about providing a photo, which I tried, but without success, at least so far. Maybe by the next post.
@Adam wrote:
Ubiety writes:
Like all liberals, Sean stereotypes everyone…
Here, Adam…let me finish the sentence for you. I wrote: “Like all liberals, Sean stereotypes everyone, possibly because liberals want all people to have “identities.”
I’m sure you know that being a liberal is a political ideology. In all ideologies, all members of the group hold the same views and engage in the same practices. I have noticed in both liberal writings and in every liberal I have met that they stereotype individuals as being part of a certain group. I think this is part of their belief system.
For example, on college campuses today, the liberal students have lists of “identities” on their profiles to help others know what group they fit into. My understanding of this, from explanations given to me by others, is that anyone who disagrees with the identity system cannot be part of the liberal group. That’s why I said all liberals stereotype everyone.
I know people who stopped being liberals for this reason. They said that when they challenged the idea of “identities,” they were no longer permitted to be part of the liberal group. Do you think this identity system is why liberals stereotype others? Or do you have another explanation?
@Ubiety
We’ve strayed pretty far off topic. I just couldn’t help point out your hypocrisy and foolishness.
@Adam
Well, it’s truly disappointing that the best you can muster is name calling: “hypocrisy and foolishness.” And, taking a portion of a sentence, out of context, without the rest of the sentence which finishes the thought, does not accurately reflect what the person has said.
There is nothing hypocritical or foolish about pointing out that a certain group stereotypes people as part of their belief system. While liberals are not the only group in history who has done this, their insistence on applying a stereotyping system to everyone around them does not allow for individuality, which I believe has caused many problems in Newton (not off-topic) or across the U.S. (not off-topic either). And, it is very on-topic as to why we need anonymity on the Internet. Perhaps instead of name-calling, you might want to think about this issue and how it silences unpopular views and prevents the free exchange of ideas.
@Ubiety…what you are describing is one of the main reasons I post anonymously. I view myself as an independent, which in Newton would make me a right wing neo-con. I have voted for some of the most liberal people in the city government because I thought they would do a great job in the position they were running for….even though I disagree with about 70% of their other views. And I vote for conservative candidates when I agree with their platform for the position they are running for. I just don’t see that happening with liberals. You are either 100% in agreement with their philosophy or you are labeled as a racist, fascist or just looked at as being a “bad person”. In general, I don’t discuss politics with people, other than some of my best friends who happen to be liberal progressives, because I just don’t see a level of tolerance from progressives who claim to be so tolerant of others.
@Ubiety – I had the same reaction as Adam. It was downright funny to read a comment that railed against the use of stereotypes but began with the words “Like all liberals …”
As for your larger point, yes there is plenty of “identity politics”practiced on the political left and some, but substantially less on the political right.
I’m all for keeping anonymous posting. The reasons have pretty well been said above. I don’t want to lose what they add to the conversation and most times, when I disagree with what or how someone said something, they use their own names anyway. I dislike lies more than anything else regardless of who is spouting them. What many call “personal attacks,” I generally think are different ways to disagree with their comments. For example, I don’t think Jack (who ended his comment with his real name) personally attacked Bob Burke – he just disagreed with what he said.
I posted with just my first name when I first started commenting but after a short while I felt comfortable enough to add my last name.
I have been stalked, by email and phone, have no idea how they got either, but was able to handle it by saying I was going to call the police. I was lucky it stopped there although I never thought I was in any danger – it was just annoying.
Ubeity, I too laughed at the “like all liberals” in a comment about stereotyping.
I have considered myself liberal most of my life but have maybe been kicked out of the “group” unknowingly because I don’t always agree with anyone or anything. I’m a skeptic, not an ideologue, about most everything until I have fully researched it for myself or found someone else whose done it for me. I’m not sure I actually have a political label except not conservative.
I also like being chippy!!
Is it possible to block names on this site from a Google search? I would be more inclined to post under my full name if comments I made under my full name on V14 didn’t show up on page 1 of my google search like they do now. I’m not retracting anything I’ve said before, but I don’t like that invasion of privacy on view to the whole world.
@Marti. I never took Jack’s attack to be personal. I simply took exception to some of his substance and had to bring some personal experiences into the discussion to support what I said.
Does the Village14.com website have a privacy policy?
@Independent Man
Thanks for replying to my comment. What you wrote is exactly what I was thinking when I posted my comments. I am also an Independent, and I have developed a strong dislike for the platform and behavior of the liberals, who have taken control of the Democratic Party. Since my views vary from moderate to left-of-center, I also feel that I cannot speak to other people in Newton about anything political, for fear of being negatively labeled as you described in your comment.
In recent years, Newton politics has shifted left, creating an environment where one group promotes its own views and then, due to what I see as a lack of organized opposition, they believe the majority in Newton agrees with them. I have been trying to figure out how many moderates and conservatives there are in Newton. It has been difficult because the liberals silence non-liberals with labeling and name-calling when they do speak up, which causes others to avoid speaking up. That, of course, is central to why online anonymity is so important.
Although I would never join a political party (I’ve always been “un-enrolled”), I would support candidates with moderate or right-of-center views, if I agreed with their platform. It would be nice to see a greater variety of viewpoints in Newton, but I’m beginning to think that if we don’t agree with everything the liberals say and do as they want, it will be difficult to live here.
If any moderates or conservatives are reading this blog, they should consider commenting anonymously to help us get a better idea of how many people in Newton hold those views and what exactly they think. (The liberals don’t need encouragement, but they should also post their views). Perhaps we could get a dialog going online, which might eventually break the ice so that we could continue discussing things with one another in public.
@Jerry Reilly and @Marti Bowen
Re: “like all liberals”
Thanks to both of you for replying to my comment. At the time I wrote the above-mentioned comment, I had been up all night working on a project and was trying to tie things up before heading off to bed for a few hours of sleep. My goal was to keep my comment as concise as possible, so I was trying to make a literal point with one sentence. From a literal and logical standpoint, the sentence makes sense. But I didn’t think about who my audience was, or how they would interpret it, as I dashed it off the top of my head. After reading about your reaction, I began to appreciate the value of a good editor. If I’d had more time, I would have rewritten the entire sentence because I don’t like the way it reads.
Nonetheless, I’d like to make one point, which some people are unaware of, due to the way we are educated in the U.S. It has to do with the way people understand the term “stereotyping.”
When most of us are kids, we are taught not to say that anything is true about all people who are members of a group because doing so is “stereotyping”. The problem with teaching a rule like this to kids is that it is not actually stereotyping to do what they have been taught not to do. And, teaching people this at an early age actually makes it difficult to teach kids more complex subjects when they’re older.
In fact, a good friend of mine, who was a Philosophy Professor, once told me that he cursed the day someone decided to teach children “not to stereotype others” because this made it much harder for him to teach them philosophy.
The reasoning for this is as follows:
A “class” of things is a group of items with common traits (e.g. liberals). Therefore, stating that all members of a class have a common trait is not a stereotype; it is a statement of fact because the trait is inherent in the class itself (part of the nature of the thing, which defines it). This holds true even if the trait itself is “stereotyping.”
Examples:
One of my best friends in high school was Catholic (I’m not). She told me that she was required to take Communion or she would be ex-communicated (thrown out of the Catholic church). As an aside, I’m not sure whether the church is as strict about Communion today as it was back then, but let’s assume it is. Do you think it would be stereotyping to write: “Like all Catholics, Sue takes Communion?” No, this is not stereotyping because all Catholics must do this in order to fulfill religious requirements and remain members of their Church. This example is closely analogous to my statement about liberals since stereotyping (i.e. identity grouping) is an inherent part of the liberal ideology (their belief system and practices).
With respect to racial stereotyping. If we wrote: “Like all African-Americans, Sue has darker skin than a Caucasian,” would this be stereotyping? No, it is *not* stereotyping because having darker skin is inherent to being an African-American (For the liberals out there, this is not racist, either. It’s called: “a statement of fact.” And it holds true even if some African-Americans have lighter skin than others because of the way we define African-Americans versus Caucasians.)
Yet, if we wrote: “Like all African-Americans, Sue is a Democrat.” This IS STEREOTYPING. The reason is that being a Democrat is not an inherent trait of being African-American. It represents an incorrect belief about African-Americans since there are African-Americans in all political groups and nothing about being African-American itself would cause one to be a Democrat.
I mention this because people tend to accuse others of either stereotyping or racism, when what the person is saying is neither. If we could all gain a better understanding of such concepts and come to an agreement about the definitions of the things we discuss, it would be much easier for us to come together as a City and as a Country.