There’s been an interesting discussion on the NextDoor Newton app (registration required) about Mark Development’s proposal to renovate and expand the building 1314 Washington Street (site of the Santander Bank) to bring a new restaurant and three story office building to West Newton Square, starting with this comment….
I thought West Newton had a good amount and variety of eating places, so I’m not sure why this is necessary. Not sure where parking will be. Movie goers and restaurant customers will compete for parking places. If many diners go to the movie, of course that will help, but not necessarily a definite thing.
If anything useful or interesting is going to go into a West Newton Square storefront, it’s going to impact parking whether it’s a restaurant or not. I suppose another restaurant isn’t necessary, but anything that contributes to the vibrancy of a village is a good thing. However, I will add that I live close enough to West Newton Square that I don’t think I’ve actually parked in the square more than a couple of times in the 13 years that I’ve lived here so I likely don’t have a complete picture of what the parking situation is really like.
It seems like restaurants are one of the few types of businesses that thrive in Newton Center and I doubt any of the other villages are much different. We have so many empty storefront along Union Street, but the restaurants are thriving AND bring people to the center who then MIGHT actually visit a retail establishment assuming they are open.
Yes that means it may bring more cars, but since most of the retails closes by 6pm, the daytime parking has likely turned over.
I don’t know, is the Santander Bank “necessary”? Was Lumiere or any other West Newton restaurant”necessary” before it was opened? It’s a peculiar question.
Seems like a fair bit of the intrigue regarding 1314 Washington revolves around whether private parking (the current bank’s parking lot) is available for quasi-public use (patrons for other businesses).
It might at least as productive to consider the impact of the return of public parking behind the current police station should the police move, and what the impact of a more walkable West Newton will have to make parking east of Chestnut and west of Elm more accessible.
I agree Mike. The public has used that parking lot but it does not belong to the public and it’s hard to think folks should feel entitled to block the development of this privately owned space just because they’re in the habit of using it for their own purposes.
But mostly, we’ve heard complaints over the years about banks (and nail salons) taking up valuable real estate in our village centers. But too many restaurants? That’s a new one.
I followed that discussion, and I don’t think many people commenting were looking to block development, but most were concerned about the parking impact, and I think that immediate reaction to the loss of parking related to this project should highlight the general parking woes in West Newton. (Yes, it’s currently only parking for Santander, but it’s used by others during non-banking hours.) With only one small municipal lot, there just isn’t enough parking in the area for the current uses, both daytime and evening (but it’s worse in the evening.)
Mike – why do you think that public parking would return behind the police station? My understanding was that the RFI included both the headquarters (and Capt. Ryan Park) and the garage behind it at 1321 Washington – isn’t the parking between the headquarters and the garage? And I don’t see how getting rid of Capt. Ryan Park makes W. Newton more walkable.
We’ve also heard lots of complaints lately about lack of parking in West Newton, Greg. I don’t think folks are objecting to a restaurant, they are objecting to loss of parking and greater use of parking facilities that remain.
I do get your point about why not-public parking that folks were improperly using should not be part of the discussion.
By the way, design matters a lot here folks. A three story building behind a smaller historic building can ruin the historic building. A Fascade-ectomy is not ok here.
Tricia,
My understanding is that the police station over time has gobbled up what used to be public parking (I think the eastern part of the lot, adjacent to few public spaces that remain). Public safety, unlike all other land uses, has the ability to essentially get more parking on demand.
Should the police station’s building come onto the market, I see no reason why the entirety of the police lot as it exists today should be completely turned over for private use.
As for Capt. Ryan Park, I don’t think West Newton should lose green space. I’m possibly open to the idea that green space being in a different location from its current one if that were part of a deal. I think that Capt. Ryan Park currently fails to live up to its potential as a park, a public space, and as a memorial.
I wish people expressed their care and concern for places such as Capt. Ryan Park and the Washington St. streetscape in general during the decades when they weren’t at risk of change.
Mark Development’s response is now up on the city website, and it’s clear why Mayor Fuller has “a few concerns”. It’s basically the standard 5-story box surrounding the existing headquarters and taking up the whole parcel. Ground floor retail with 85 residential units – and Captain Ryan Park is gone. And that public parking? Looks like onsite parking is for retail and residents.
Mike – why does the park fail to live up to it’s potential? On what basis do you make your assumption that it wasn’t valued until now? I would bet that most folks assumed, like I did, that a city-owned memorial park wouldn’t be “at risk” of development. Here’s an interesting fact – about a year ago, a developer bought the house and land in West Newton where Capt. Ryan was born and died. He requested a waiver of the demolition delay, and it was granted pretty quickly – one reason cited was that he already had a memorial right in the neighborhood, just a couple of block away.
Tricia,
That may be the developer’s proposal, but as you noted, no one has accepted it. I happen to think that the proposal to move the police station — modernize it, unify it, and give it adequate parking — makes a lot of sense, given the right deal. That doesn’t mean biting at the proposal on the table.
As for Capt. Ryan Park, you’re right, I guess I shouldn’t be to harsh about it. My beef in general is that many of Newton parks and recreation areas don’t live up to their potential, but I have high standards: I think spaces accessible to all should be the pride of our community and be invested in as such. To its credit, it is of reasonable size and has mature trees. I would like to see it landscaped better, and its history as the site of the first city hall celebrated.
I would also like to see it better integrated with the streetscape, and perhaps tied in with a future finished linear park coming in from Waltham St. behind the current police station. I would also like to see it more activated: it’s too valuable to be just a passive memorial park. I know it gets some use, but more use would mean more love, and more community.
I always felt like Capt Ryan park is underutilized. There’s that little area of greenspace near the triangle lot in Newton Centre that has picnic tables and I’ve noticed many people getting takeout on a nice day and eating there. With Comella’s, Blue Ribbon, etc, it would be nice to be able to have a place to get takeout and sit outside. They also could have live music there (I know they do it once a year – they should do it more), craft fairs, a Christmas tree lighting, Santa, selling pumpkins in the fall, etc. Even when it’s cold we sit on a bench over there with hot chocolate. It’s such a missed opportunity. Losing it would be very sad.
Ding, ding, ding! – Village14 Word of the Week Award goes to fignewtonville for “facade-ectomy”
Can’t take credit for that one Jerry, it’s a common turn of phase in downtown Boston. I’m not a fan of the results.
I thought I could not be any more disgusted by this misbegotten RFI process than I already was, but I was wrong. The idea of taking away a public park in a village center is so appallingly bad that I can only assume it is another cynical attempt by a developer to make his next version look good by comparison. Or a bargaining technique. ‘Hey, I could save the park if your new zoning let’s me build eight stories.’
I believe that state law protecting perks would require the legislature and governor to approve a home rule petition before something like this could actually be done. If our city council was foolish enough to approve wiping out a public park, I would hope the legislature would stop it.
@julia, the plan was a proposal, it hasn’t been accepted. The park exists and, as far as I’m aware, there are no plans to remove it.
I happen to agree with @mike and the others who say that Captain Ryan park is underutilized. It has the potential to be a great space given its position within the village. It can be a gathering point and a social setting.
The right designer with a little bit of investment can turn that park into a place that attracts people and invites them to sit, gather, talk, eat, etc.
@Chuck, which is why Julia’s suggestion that the park is being used as a bargaining chip rings true
I hadn’t looked at the Mark Development police station proposal until now, and I have to say that I couldn’t imagine it working. Besides losing the park, the biggest problem I see is traffic. Not volume per se, but volume in a highly constrained location. The Cherry St/Washington St/Highland St/public parking lot/police headquarters/ driveway/Webster St intersections is highly susceptible to queuing problems as it is. And there’s no obvious fix that I can see that could accommodate a major motor vehicle source/destination.
So let’s be visionary for a change. The police need, or will need soon, modernized facilities. The current station already has an annex; the current site is not big enough for their needs (including parking).
People don’t like the only current private proposal on the table (I haven’t heard anyone who does at this point, but many people haven’t seen it).
Is there a alternative meaningful public vision for police station property should it become available? And for once, it would be nice to envision a plan without immediately saying “we can’t afford it”. That kind of thinking keeps us from ever dreaming big. Sometimes visions are compelling enough to overcome price tags.
Let’s figure out what we want and then try to engage residents and developers to make it happen.
I agree with Mike H. Good comment.
Here’s something interesting. Look at page 5 of the Mark Development RFI response for the police station:
http://www.newtonma.gov/civicax/bids/inc/blobfetch.aspx?blobid=89979#page=5
First, the traffic light moved, and brought a crosswalk with it. Second, and more interestingly, Tody’s has cafe seating. And a lot of bike parking. Harris Cyclery and Boston Sports Club appear to have opened a joint sidewalk cafe.
What does it mean? Nothing really. Probably 🙂
I think that including a building in place of Capt. Ryan Park in that proposal was a really bad idea. There’s a lot of distrust going on in terms of Newton’s development and Mark Development and this didn’t really do a lot to instill trust from the community. People keep saying that they want green space, so this was a poor move. I actually think the rest of the rendering looks nice, but ultimately I’m left feeling disappointed.
@Mike: “Let’s figure out what we want and then try to engage residents and developers to make it happen.”
That’s the theory behind the proposal for a moratorium on Washington Street.
Amy,
I understand and appreciate that. My understanding is that at least some people who oppose the moratorium believe that it would have unintended consequences (preventing all development, including by private homeowners and small property owners, that requires a special permit) while at the same time not changing anything for the big developers (their project scale would need special permits anyway, and those could be stopped by City Council without an explicit moratorium while Washington St. planning was ongoing).
Since the other two amendments target new mixed-use residential development along Washington St, the fear is that an explicit moratorium could be part of an effort to go beyond just maintaining the status quo during the planning process.
What do you think?
At any rate, as opposed to the bigger Washington St. question, this project is a very specific one, smack within the West Newton community. I like breaking problems down into manageable pieces. This is one I think we could solve, or help solve, together.
Wow that is amazing that Mark Development could come up with such a detailed proposal with less than 30 days notice!!
I don’t think the requirement was to keep the “facade ” of the PD building. It was to restore and maintain the building.
A definition of facade ” an outward appearance that is maintained to conceal a less pleasant or creditable reality”.
What a farce!!!
Oh come on, I would hope anything that removes that park wouldn’t even get to a council discussion. I mean seriously…That said the park itself is horribly underutilized by people. The piano has helped a bit for sure but other than a pedestrian cut-through its current use is non existent. What I could see would be a wide pedestrian plaza path area on the west side of the building with restaurants along it and outdoor seating. Even with the expanded plaza space as part of the West Newton roadway plan outdoor seating is still against a 3-4 lane road, not so pleasant, a plaza facing the park would be much nicer and foster more connection between the building and the park…I want more housing in our village centers, heck more restaurant options are totally fine, I want a better use of this property, but it can’t come at the expense of a park and some gorgeous mature trees, as the Mayor I believe alludes to “we can do better.”
Santander Bank allows the public to park in its lot when its not in use except for the spaces it marks as ATM parking. I park there to shop, eat in the Square and to go to the theater. The metered parking on the street has too short a time period to see a movie much less to do all three. Ted and I have argued over the lack of parking in West Newton, with me being the one who thinks there’s not enough. Without that lot, I will be disappointed but will spend much less time in West Newton Square. With a restaurant there, the parking needs only increase.
As for the police station proposal, losing the green space in West Newton Square should be a non starter. I thought the mayor had requested it not only stay but receive an upgrade. Adding a story to the historical building changes its look entirely. This entire process, or lack thereof, was rushed. I’m not sure any amount of negotiation will make this proposal workable.
The renderings from this proposal. particularly page 5, are ridiculous. There is car parking on both sides of Washington Street which will still be there after the new street design. There will be bike lanes, preferably next to the sidewalk, but as it stands now, between parking and traffic. It doesn’t seem that Korf has checked into the new road design for West Newton.
There needs to be a study of how much money it would take to build the police headquarters that will carry the city into the future, how much space it would need for parking, perhaps underground, and where a good location would be by experts in this field before any land swap is negotiated. Letting a developer decide is nonsensical.