Mayor Ruthanne Fuller and city councilors have responded to the prospect of a gun store on Washington St. with a proposal to change the city’s zoning code to make the sale of firearms illegal at the proposed location. Mayor Fuller suggests (correctly, I think) that a city-wide ban is probably not legally feasible, so the proposed zoning has to allow for legal gun stores somewhere in Newton.
So, where in Newton should it be legal to open a gun store? What criteria should the City Council use to define the limits of zones where gun sales are legal? Proximity to schools, obviously. What other criteria?
Disclosure: I’d be just fine without a second amendment, without legal gun sales, without guns. But, we’ve gotta deal with what we’ve got.
Isn’t north of the pike the dumping ground that the mayor already prefers?
I’m more surprised the store owner thinks they can make a profit in Newton.
Not within 1000 feet of any public or private educational institution, park, daycare, or playground. This would significantly limit the locations. The goal in my mind would be to limit impulse purchases for a variety of reasons. I would have to imagine that most folks buying guns fall into three categories. Hunters/Sports-Shooters, buying for personal protection, and a myriad of nefarious reasons. Restrictive zoning for gun stores will make it a little less convenient to purchase a gun, but not more than background checks. For folks who seek to buy a gun for hunting, shooting, or personal protection, this minor inconvenience would not deter them. For those who have bad intentions, or impule buys that could lead to bad outcomes, this would simply ensure that the temptation of gun store would not be waived in their face by being in a central location with high visibility. I have to believe that in the 21st century, a profitable gun store has less to do with location within a city or town, and more to do with online marketing, gunsmithing, ammo availability/inventory, customization, etc. This shouldn’t be a fight against or for 2A. It should be about making gun stores a little less visible to try and reduce the liklihood of bad impulse purchases. It’s not stopping criminals from buying guns, as we all know gun-store access won’t stop them. It’s about making it a little harder for otherwise good people, in a bad frame of mind, from doing something we all will regret.
Impulse buying? Has anyone, as a non-gunowner, ever tried to buy a gun in Massachusetts on any day of the week just because he/she wanted to? Maybe you can score one from a drug dealer/thug on the street…but not in a gun store in this state. You need to be licensed. That takes time. Lots of time. Not impulse satisfying…
All of the manufacturing zoned areas in Newton are in Nonantum, Auburndale, and small sections of Upper and Lower Falls. None of them are in Waban, Chestnut Hill, Newton Center, Newtonville or Newton Highlands. I predict fireworks.
@Lisa – I haven’t seen anyone yet suggest that they be limited to manufacturing zoned areas. They are retail rather than manufacturing businesses.
How will we ever attract positive development if Newton begins passing restrictions after a business has made their plans public? Our local process combined with a very vocal NIMBY crowd has already made Newton a place where less than a handful of companies are willing to risk investing.
We lost the hotel whose hospitality tax would have gone to the city. We spent tens of thousands of dollars on the anti development Northland vote just to have a well thought out plan delayed for many months. The needed apartments on Ware St. were replaced by a noisy 18 hour a day truck lot. Turtle Run now has big luxury family units with the same number of parking spots instead of starter units and space for local businesses and a restaurant. Soon Newton will have nothing but by right McMansions and hostile 40B complexes.
I don’t like guns and I am proud of Massachusetts’ strong gun laws. That said, restrictive after the fact zoning changes will do nothing good for the future of Newton. Just let the gun shop go out of business from lack of interest as the two before them have.
Just be honest about it. You don’t want gun shops near schools because you don’t want to normalize what is already a very normal part of life in America. You’d rather let your kids learn about guns and see guns in video games where they are generally committing simulated mass-homicide, or on TV where violence is glorified to an amazing degree. God forbid they see a retail store that highlights all the real-life lawful uses of firearms.
Why would a gun shop want to be located in some out of the way corner of nowhere? Like any other retail establishment visibility, accessibility, and foot-traffic play into sales. Yes, it is 100% true that in Massachusetts the licensing process is a huge pain and takes time, but most gun shops have partnerships with local instructors, or do instruction in-house. Someone walking by who is curious asking questions and getting answers is a part of their business.
It’s really sad that a vocal minority of the city (most are probably at most indifferent) are trying to ruin this guys legal business before it even gets off the ground. It’s great to see that Newton becomes more hostile by the year to ideas that some feel conflict with their own sense of moral superiority.
@Jerry Reilly – Amy’s newsletter mentioned Manufacturing, Business 4 and Mixed Use 1 as the proposed districts although it also calls out gunsmithing as an allowed use so I’m guessing that’s why the two Manufacturing zones are included. Of those MU1 seems to be limited to Needham St in Upper Falls, BU4 limited to the Riverside office park and Rt.9 by Hammond Pond and Manufacturing is scattered across the northern villages with slivers in Upper/Lower Falls and Oak Hill. So likely any store would either be going on Needham St or in one of the manufacturing areas.
Ugh. If I check my conscience the right thing to do here is to give this guy a license to open a gun shop.
I’ve never held a gun, and I have no affinity for guns.
Scurrying around to create a law to keep somebody from doing something legal and honest just isn’t right.
I’m all for rewriting our gun laws and funding programs to combat racism, violence and teen depression.
And I wouldn’t call Newtonville a dumping ground. Marijuana and guns are both businesses with high demand. These are premium businesses.
You can’t buy everything you want on Amazon and then expect Our new Washington Street developments to fill up with quaint clothing shops and cafes.
An ideal location would be an industrial spot on the edge of the city, close to the highway. The problem is that Newton is so tightly integrated, with industrial properties abutting housing, that it’s tough to find a place like that.
My initial reaction is Wells Ave. It’s on the edge of the city, close to a highway and rather unattractive from a retail perspective. It’s also unlikely that a landlord there would rent to a firearms retailer. But the problem is that there are multiple educational institutions there, so it’s a no-go.
If we were Needham we could just push it in the Needham Industrial Park (N-Squared) because it’s far from most residents, but Newton doesn’t have that luxury.
Chuck, wouldn’t the ideal location for a retail establishment be somewhere where retail is done? Like the current proposed location? Your solution is to kill their business before it even opens by keeping it far from everyone who might go there?
Honestly, I have lived here since 1998, and having no gun stores in Newton works for me. I don’t know where I would put one, since we are an urban setting. I don’t know of any neighborhood that wants to welcome one into their village. I live in the Highlands. I am fine with none in Nonantum, West Newton, Waban, Lower Falls or Upper Falls.
Near a police station
“buying for personal protection, and a myriad of nefarious reasons.”
Are you aware that a customer needs a license to even look at a gun in a gun shop? Getting a license requires fingerprinting and a background check. Nobody is just ambling by the gun stores and suddenly decides to buy a gun and hold up the 7/11.
2016 DOJ study of all state and federal prisoners, showed that 287,400 prisoners possed a gun at the time of their crime, and appx 3,746 of them purchased the gun legally from a retail store. (Gun shows were recorded separately.) This worked out to appx 1.3%. Admittedly, this is a low percentage, but it does show that some crimes are committed with guns purchased through retail stores, even with regulations in place. I don’t have the Massachusetts data. I know the chances that somebody jumps through the hoops, legally purchases a gun, and commits a crime with it, is low. However, the impact to themselves and others if they do, is very high. That’s enough to give consideration to how any community approaches zoning and its impact on gun store locations.
Mike, I don’t know whether you have children of your own, but your dismissal of Newton residents’ concerns about locating a gun shop near a school comes off as heartless and unkind. It is not that Newtonians are worried about normalizing gun ownership; Newtonians like myself are more worried about how mass shooting in schools of innocent children and adults is becoming normalized because of its increasing frequency. Parents who watch the news about Parkland and Newtown and all of the other senseless mass shootings by predominantly young, white males who acquire their firearms legally is traumatizing. For young children in particular, practicing lockdowns at school is also traumatizing. Passing by a gun shop on the way to school could also be traumatizing for children and adults of any age.
My wife is an elementary school teacher and more than once she has found a student hiding in the bathroom or some other place alone because they were afraid to walk into a hallway to get back to their classroom because of what they have been taught. Fire drills are necessary, but if it were not for most of America’s lax gun laws, no child would have to go through lockdown drills to practice how to escape a mass shooter with a semiautomatic weapon who is hunting for children and teachers. Over twenty years ago when my wife first started teaching, I never thought she and I would have to have “the talk” about what she should do if an armed shooter enters her school. She has always told me she would do whatever was necessary to protect the children in her care, and I have to support her in that, despite the fact that it seems so senseless to me that it is possible for someone to get a semiautomatic with a high capacity magazine that can kill so many people so fast.
I also believe that many Newtonians are worried, rightly or wrongly, about the clientele that gun shops will attract to their community or their neighborhood. That may not seem fair to you, but if I have young children, I wouldn’t want them passing by a porn shop on the way to school because of the kinds of people who patronize such businesses. To me, guns and porn are both things that people who want to pay for should be able to buy, so long as public safety is protected. Of course, porn harms people who are exploited to create it, just like the NRA exploits gun-buyers fears about “bad guys with guns” behind every corner. At the very least, anyone who want to buy a gun in Newton should have at least the same restrictions they would be obligated to follow as they would to buy a car, which is every bit as dangerous as a gun if misused or used negligently. Indeed, I believe that anyone who buys a gun should get training and pass a test to be eligible to get a license and should have to register their firearms and have to prove they have liability insurance to register them. And to buy pot in Newton, you have to make an appointment. Gun shops should at the very least have the same restrictions as a pot shop.
I also believe that many Newtonians are worried, rightly or wrongly, about the clientele that gun shops will attract to their community or their neighborhood.
What “kinds of people” would those be?
@Donna Gefter, based on who is doing most of the mass shootings, young, white, middle to upper middle class males who possess semiautomatic weapons.
If Newton officials are concerned about gun stores they should have changed zoning or local regulations years ago. Pulling the carpet on a business that already identified a location is bad government. This is why ex post facto laws are often prohibited. I am surprised (well, maybe not) that the Newton Needham Chamber has not stepped up. What business would want to relocate to Newton and–after investing time and money–be subject to the whims of the Mayor and Council?
For the record, I do not like guns and have never had one.
Near a police station is the best suggestion yet. DEFINITELY not back in any shadowy out of the way alley: that would be a perfect location for those who don’t want to be seen buying a gun.
I wish newton residents would show the same passion for finding and prosecuting all the illegal gun owners in our major cities.
Mass shootings needs to be addressed but is a drop in the ocean compared to deaths by illegal guns.
Our city council spent too much time focusing on zoning in the past few years and clearly missed the boat on this one. Keep this in mind when they are up for reelection.
Ted, I really don’t want to devolve into personal attacks. I am a father, not that that really has any relevance. Believe it or not, you can both be an ardent supporter of the 2nd amendment and and because you love your children. People who disagree with you aren’t automatically unkind and heartless.
I’m not mean — mean is leveraging government to bully someone out of business. It’s not heartless and unkind to say that the idea the lawful commerce in firearms has no place “near” a school is a ridiculous assertion rooted in a political ideology. I fully recognize that some people don’t like guns. I also recognize that many Newtonians have a wholly irrational fear of guns, as if they are some of serpent. If anything I’d expect a decent gun shop that has a place in the community might help to curb some of that irrational fear.
As to the “clientele” who go into a gun shop, I have to laugh. Are you really that insulated? You do realize to buy stuff in a gun shop you A. Need to pass a background check and B. Need money. On top of that, who do you think buys guns at a gun shop? Your neighbors, that’s who. Not some shifty characters who don’t want to be seen.
You’re in luck. To buy a gun in Massachusetts you do need training and to be licensed. And this state does maintain a registry. Both of those are requirements I disagree with, but they exist. As far as requiring liability insurance, that’s laughable, dumb, and probably unconstitutional. Apart from no insurer ever agreeing to cover an intentional act, injuries to third parties due to accidents with firearms are exceedingly rare, and typically would be covered by health insurance anyway. Furthermore, as I recall you are an attorney, and I’m confident you understand the concept of tort.
The appointment requirement is dumb for pot shops and it would be equally dumb for gun shops. It’s like buying any other product, what kind of impact would it have on a camera store, Home Depot, etc if you needed an appointment. That’s again, downright ridiculous.
Mass shootings are a problem. School shootings are a problem. That’s an entirely separate debate over the location of a gun shop in the city. I know you are trying to connect them, but considering I’m confident you are opposed to allowing teachers who so choose and are independently motivated to be trained and armed, I imagine you don’t really want solutions and would prefer just to utilize it as another talking point as part of the anti-gun agenda. Semi-automatics, big magazines, etc is all relatively irrelevant when you refuse to have any meaningful security in the first place (like a lot of private schools do).
“As to the “clientele” who go into a gun shop, I have to laugh. Are you really that insulated? You do realize to buy stuff in a gun shop you A. Need to pass a background check and B. Need money. On top of that, who do you think buys guns at a gun shop? Your neighbors, that’s who. Not some shifty characters who don’t want to be seen.”
Mike is absolutely correct. Gun shops attract clientele who’ve been fingerprinted and undergone a background check, and understand they must submit to another background check by the FBI in order to buy a gun.
With ammo running around $175/box, you can rest assured that gun shop customers are also people with jobs.
An essential feature of our democracy is that we create laws prospectively and apply them equally to everyone. It is evil and un-American to create laws retrospectively, one at a time, directed at individual members of society.
But that is exactly what a lot of people here want to do.
It is tyrannical for a city to change its rules suddenly, just at the moment a law-abiding person declares their intent to open up a lawful business.
I have no doubt that if the city changes its “zoning” to “relocate” this gun shop, emboldened activists will just keep persecuting it until it has nowhere to go in Newton.
Of course, most of the knee-jerk anti-gun commenters here don’t care whether their activism violates basic principles of American government. This is a perfect case study in “progressive” politics: as long as it serves their immediate policy goals, they don’t give a rat’s a** about the long-term implications. Another example is Democrats’ idea to pack the Supreme Court. Where does that get us in 10 or 20 years? Every time Congress flips the party in power will just keep packing…
The common theme between this and many other recent posts, is “where in Newton should (guns, pot, development, zoning changes) go?”
On the topic of the gun store, either fight it’s presence all together, or recognize it’s legal to open where it’s proposed and let it be.
Frankly, it’s tiring and un-neighborly to constantly pit one village against another. It’s been nice the past few days to see entire City Council working together to put this topic on the docket.
@Ted Hess-Mahan.
The shooter in Indianapolis was a 19 year old former FedEx worker. Dylan Roof was a high school dropout with no fixed address. The Pulse Nightclub shooting was carried out by Omar Mir Siddique Matin, and the Boulder shooting by Ahmed Alissa. The Las Vegas shooting by 64 year old Stephen Paddock.
Literally none of these individuals are young, white, and middle or upper middle class.
Mike, you disagree with licensing, training, and a registry? I’ve heard the arguments about a registry, but considering some of the dumbasses I’ve known who think they are either James Bond, Dirty Harry, or some version of Avenger, and who also own a gun, I take a lot of comfort in the training. It helps them not blow their own junk off, never mind learn to shoot.
On the registry and license, the govt makes me do that with a car. Heck, I think I even need to do that with a scooter. Those requirements elicit a great big shrug from me. Govt gets to put sensible regulations to help make us safe on everything from cheese to diapers to letting your dog poop in the woods.
I’ll also note that from a constitutional standpoint, the right to bear arms isn’t absolute. So a training requirement, if not overbearing, isn’t a constitutional issue even under a conservative court.
Like a number of commenters above, I too am uncomfortable with passing laws and rules retroactively aimed at one specific legal business. That’s a dangerous precedent.
I too am no fan of more guns in our community. If you gave me the choice, I’d rather not have a new gun store opening in the city, but that’s not my choice. By all means debate any rules for future gun shops but it seems patently unfair to use the legal/zoning system to thwart a single individual’s legal business plan after they’ve leased a premises and announced that they are opening.
For the training aspect, folks who aren’t trained don’t know what to do with their index finger (they hold the gun with their finger on the trigger). They use the wrong bullets. They use the wrong holster and shoot themselves in the foot. They don’t safety check. They use the gun to point to people or things. They take the gun across state lines because they don’t know the rules.
Having the state impose training saves gun owners lives. Smart people get more training and join a gun club or other place to practice. There are a lot of dumb people who think “how hard could it be”?
I’m not a gun person, and maybe they have become easier to use in the last 25 years since I was around folks who liked guns. All of those folks were trained and kinda vigilant about the training, so maybe I’m just biased. I used to watch them triple check a gun before they handed it to me to hold, etc. That could just be because I’m a clumsy dumbass though.
To be clear I think training is a good idea, I just don’t support a mandate on it to buy a firearm. While I believe this pretty solidly, if the training was free and more accessible I’d be less concerned. I’ve been an instructor in Mass for over 10 years. When the NRA went after instructors for a money grab by changing up their curriculum I went through the process to get my own curriculum (which I was going to make open source) certified. The MSP, for no apparent reason, let it sit on a desk for years and just never got to it, and I had no effective recourse. This kind of crap is why I’m against state mandated training.
Insofar as licensing goes, I oppose it because states like Massachusetts abuse the heck out of it. I’d have fewer objections if A. People could actually get appointments quickly, B. It was free, C. Licenses were “shall issue” on the basis of statutory eligibility. D. It was uniform across the state.
Giving police chiefs absolute discretion is insane. Comm2A as part of research for a lawsuit found discriminatory practices in some of the more restrictive towns. IE only doctors and lawyers being granted licenses in Boston, or only people with connections in other towns. In the era of wokeness, a lot of Massachusetts liberals are still ok with telling minority communities and people of color what is best for them when it comes to lawful gun ownership.
Mike, it’s not a vocal minority that don’t want a gun shop here. Massachusetts has a low percentage of gun ownership, Newton is even lower. 64% of Americans support stricter gun laws nationwide. Even when people believe it’s shaky territory to try to push this business out from a legal and civic perspective, many of them do not want to patronize this business and do not like guns. It’s a major stretch to assume that the people who don’t want the gun shop are the minority.
The reason we should not have a gun shop on Washington Street near schools and other businesses is because the clientele will necessarily be carrying guns as they enter and leave the store. This automatically puts the public at a higher risk than if the shop was somewhere not near other businesses. Children (or adults for that matter) should not have to worry about whether the person they are walking (or driving) past is carrying a gun. We really have enough to worry about already in society right now without adding the worry that guns are out on a major Newton throughfare, next to popular family restaurants and stores.
I’ve carried a gun all around Newton my entire adult life, as do many of my friends. In restaurants, banks, and anywhere else it’s not prohibited. It has nothing to do with a gun shop being there. People carry guns. In fact, every time I’ve bought a gun, and it’s been many, that gun has left the shop in a locked case. Again, your irrational fears about other people aren’t cause crush a small business or prevent it from opening.
It is a vocal minority. The city has 80k people, a small % have mindlessly signed a petition. I do get that many don’t want to patronize the business. Easy solution there: Don’t.
@Mike have you ever used it to defend yourself? Perhaps you have an irrational fear of needing one.
Nope. Never needed to put out any of my fires in my home with a fire extinguisher either, nor have I needed to break out the first aid kit in my car. I’d be pretty shocked if I ever needed my gun for self-defense, but it’s virtually zero effort to have it to be able to protect myself, so I see it as prudent. People carry guns for personal protection. Most never need them, including police officers carrying on duty. It doesn’t mean there is any “irrational fear.” The irrational fear is that of those who have quite literally said “I’m afraid of people leaving gun stores with guns.”
Rick,
I must admit, I had “rational” fears of needing one during the riots and also recently with the home invasions. If the asian hate gets much worse, may actually get one
I grew up riding the El in Chicago when there were regularly bullet holes in the windows, a friend in high school was mugged at gunpoint, and you never, ever, went to the local ER with sickness or injury, because you were going to be triaged behind the GSW. (We would drive 20 minutes west to a much ritzier hospital if we could)
I was so scared of guns, I took pistol classes in college to try to get over it. It helped a bit, now I’m only really scared of a subset of guns, and realize that you’ve got to have way more shoulder an wrist strength than I do to accurately fire a 9mm pistol.
So I’ve gotta put myself in the category of “I’d prefer if there were no guns.”
But that’s not the law in the Country, State, or Municipality we’re in. MA has strict gun laws, and our current zoning allows it. If/should we lobby to change the zoning, I would argue for this store to be grandfathered in.
And as for gun store locations, both my husband and I grew up with the local Walmart selling guns and ammo. I’d prefer gun stores, like marijuana dispensaries, liquor stores, bars, and ATM’s to be in a well-lit area with plenty of foot traffic. I figure the danger isn’t the patrons, but those who would prey on the patrons for their cash or purchases.
By those criteria, Washington street is a far better choice than an industrial district.
/as always, this is a personal statement.
Also from a robbery standpoint — guns are a controlled item that have a street value to criminals who can’t get them lawfully. Putting a gun store in some out of the way corner facilitates them getting into the hands of criminals. Robbing an occupied gun store is a pretty bad idea, though.
@Mike and Donna Gefter, thank you for responding. I wrote “rightly or wrongly” because while I am not personally concerned about most of the customers who patronize a gun shop, and my children have all graduated from NNHS, I do know other parents of school age children who are concerned. You can hardly blame them when every day there is another report of a mass shooting involving four or more victims, somewhere in the United States. I am very happy to live in Massachusetts where the laws are as strict as they are, since we have the lowest rate of gun deaths in the country at 3.4 per 100,000 people, compared to states with the highest rates at >20 per 100,000. I am also less concerned about mass shootings, although they get more media coverage, than I am by all of the domestic gun violence in America, usually involving a male shooter and a female or child victim.
@Donna, you name a handful of mass shootings that took place at a Blac church, night club, a grocery store, and an outdoor concert. Mass shootings at schools were relatively rare before the 1990s, but since the Columbine High School shooting, they have increased dramatically in both frequency and notoriety. By and large, the shooters are young, white, male, and middle or upper middle class. Among mass shootings in general, the shooters are predominantly white, male, young to middle-aged, and share one predominant characteristic in common: the majority of them share white nationalist, white supremacist, racist, misogynistic, anti-Asian, anti-LGBTQ+ and/or anti-semitic beliefs. Almost all of them bought their firearms legally. In light of that, perhaps you can imagine why a mostly white, affluent community like Newton, which has significant numbers of Jewish, Asian-American, progressive, LGBTQ+ and other minority residents would find the “clientele” who buy guns legally to be someone to fear.
So, the opposition to the gun shop and fear of gun owners in Newton is not entirely irrational as you appear to suggest. The fear that everyone who opposes this gun shop wants to take away your Second Amendment rights and seize your guns, on the other hand, just doesn’t pan out. There are more guns than people in America, and very few have their guns taken away from them, and usually only after harming or threatening to harm someone. If you sincerely want Newton residents to be less afraid of guns and gun owners, perhaps you should turn down the perjorative, anti-liberal rhetoric a few notches, and listen to why Newton residents say they are afraid.
@Ted.
Do you genuinely believe that men named Ahmed and Omar are white supremacists?
I keep reading about the types of clientele the store would attract. You do realize the Weston Shooters Club is minutes away, right? What sorts of people frequent a club costing $1000 a year?
Gun owners aren’t some creepy low end subset of people. I’m Jewish and college educated. You could easily pass by me in a Starbucks or at the Mall and never think I’m carrying.
It’s not anti-liberal rhetoric. The democratic party sincerely seeks to pass legislation that will criminalize the ownership of currently lawfully owned guns — “taking them,” so to speak. This isn’t a secret. I know, Ted, you don’t speak for the party, but that is the position of many of the party higher-ups, and quite publicly so. It’s disingenuous to say otherwise.
There’s no fear about people who oppose the gun shop “wanting to take away my second amendment rights,” though I’m sure many would be happy to. The issue is it is fundamentally unfair to do what now appears to be being done to someone who went through all the hoops to open up a business in Newton. And it absolutely IS politics, not rational concerns, that are coming out in full-force against this guy.
If you want to be honest with your statistics, Massachusetts falls in the middle of the states insofar as homicides involving firearms are concerned.
That is the problem with the pro-gun lobby and why it is so difficult to pass even the smallest gun control measure. Most people do not want to get rid of the 2nd amendment. Abolishing any constitutional amendment would be extraordinarily difficult. What I do hear advocates of gun control reform say is that they want some common sense measures to be in place to reduce the capacity or likelihood of gun violence. This stance is not an all or nothing position
@Mike and Donna, you are still not listening. Good luck with that.
@Mike, the facts are against you. Show me where Massachusetts falls in the middle on gun violence fatalities. And show your work, don’t just give me bald-faced assertions.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm
@Donna: “Gun owners aren’t some creepy low end subset of people. I’m Jewish and college educated. You could easily pass by me in a Starbucks or at the Mall and never think I’m carrying.”
Maybe. But you are also the last person I want to be standing next to in a mass shooting when law enforcement arrives and tries to figure out who the shooter is.
I don’t carry a gun around for the 1 in a zillion chance I wind up in a mass shooting. It’s for personal protection, not playing superhero. I love that you’d love to be standing among a bunch of unarmed people being shot at, rather than have someone armed anywhere near you during a Mass shooting. Goes to show how objectively you are able to view this.
Ted, MA is ~#30 in firearm homicides in the US by state, with 1 being the most. That’s based off FBI uniform crime reporting.
Bruce, the problem is the definition of “common sense.” The Gun Control lobby (since we are talking lobbies) sticks common-sense on whatever “reform” they suggest as if to suggest disagreement is not common-sense. This is what lobbies do, both pro and anti-gun.
@Mike, show your work, Dude. Or else you just talkin’ smack.
I stand corrected, we are number 4 down from ~10 years ago (FBI UCR I was looking at was 2010). Although there has been a recent uptick that is not represented in the 2019 data. And the 3 states that are “safer” than us have virtually 0 gun control.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm
@MIke, and, not for nothing, but who do you think law enforcement will be shooting at when they respond to an active shooter call? The innocents without a gun, or the people who are holding a gun?
@Mike, I see what you did there. You used the figure for homicides and I used the figures for gun violence mortalities. This is why people in Newton do not trust you.
@Mike just curious why you feel the need to carry a guy all around Newton?
This is an issue Newton residents are trying to address on local social media and with our locally elected councilors. Just so folks are aware, the other forums dealing with this issue have attracted people who don’t live here and have no interest in our community. Then there’s Mike whom we know loves guns, but we have no idea who he is or where he comes from.
My advice, take it or leave it, but don’t feed the trolls.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/04/18/us/mass-shootings-since-march-16/index.html
50 mass shootings in a bit over a month. 50. Please review all 50. For those pulling race into this … pls review and tell us the race. Might be hard since this article doesn’t cover race of the shooter. Hint hint though … it isn’t one race. Stop with race baiting crap.
14,000 gun homicides in the country in a year. Ridiculous. Abhorrent. We focus on the shootings that make national press. They are bad. Guess what, the overall numbers are far far worse! Just doesn’t make the same news outlets for some reason. Ridiculous. It needs a spotlight.
That is over 35 killed per day on average!!! Again, not one race! Stop trying to make it sound like it is. Gun violence is horrific all around. It is the USA. Sad.
We need to fix gun regulations and the attitudes we have in our communities all over the country.
I don’t want a gun shop here … but after the fact zoning changes to drive a business out seems like an unequal / unfair application of government power.
Having a gun shop isn’t going to change risks here. Guns are plentiful. We need new National gun laws restricting gun types and we need change in our attitudes, expectations of each other in our communities, and how we treat each other. More kindness, less animosity, less community stoked hatred of others.
Ted, admitting my data was old and posting a link to the latest CDC data on firearms homicides by state sure is dishonest. Ok.
The NRA May be able to make people
paranoid — but nothing compares to the gun control groups at making people paranoid about mass shootings and then convincing people they are better off being unarmed when they find themselves involved in one. There’s just not going to be any meeting of the minds if you really think you’re better off with nobody armed nearby or not being armed yourself when being shot at (which isn’t likely to happen anyway). It’s delusional. Especially when it’s been demonstrably false.
My connection to Newton is most of my family and many of my friends still live there, I went to grad school and grew up there, and I live in a neighboring town now. I’m in Newton weekly, and I’d shop at this place. Plenty of people I know in Newton own guns.
I don’t feel any overarching “need” to “carry a gun all around Newton.” I carry a gun for self defense because it’s cheap insurance. I also do so in Newton, because why not.
@Mike, please read your post again. I posted gun violence mortality rates and you posted the overall homicide rates.
@Keith B For the last 25 years, Congress has blocked funding to the CDC to allow it to study the cause of gun violence like any other public health threat, because of course. But, there is reliable data on the race and sex of of shooters in mass shootings. Not surprisingly, 98% are male, and the race and ethnicity of the shooters reflects the general population (SPOILER ALERT: men are more violent and also more likely to blame others rather than themselves for their failures than women are). However, among white male mass shooters, a majority share racist, anti-Semitic, misogynistic, ant-LGBTQ+, and/or white nationalist views.
The CDC is finally being allowed to study the causes of gun violence for the first time in a quarter century, during which over one million Americans have died from gun violence. This is a first step towards a better understanding of the causes of gun violence so that, God willing, government can legislate better solutions.
Coincidentally, this landed in my YouTube feed this am.
Note Massachusetts’ licensure process is detailed. Those who abhorrently oppose guns will never be satisfied short of a full ban. But if a store ends up in Newton, there is some comfort in the regulations we have here in the Bay State.
https://youtu.be/ENw2y0ek1Jg
Whenever I hear someone talking about how having an armed person nearby during a mass shooting will help, I’m reminded of the shootouts in Watertown between the Tsarnaev brothers and the massive police presence that descended on the area. Despite hundreds of rounds fired, very few hit the targets. The only fatality came from being run over by a car, not being shot. And most of the police injuries came from other police accidentally hitting them.
The point of that isn’t to call into question the police actions, it’s to note that aiming and firing a weapon at another human being is remarkably difficult. It takes an emotional toll and it runs counter to our very nature. This is why, during war, those in power spend a lot of time dehumanizing the enemy. It’s why soldiers come home with severe emotional issues.
The “good guy with a gun” myth is just that: a myth. I’m sure you can find incidents in which it may have worked, but those are rare in the grand scheme of things. What’s more likely is what Ted points out above: when law enforcement arrives they don’t know which gun is good and which is bad. More guns don’t make things better.
To think that a civilian, under fire, will be able to pull out a weapon and defend is a story created to sell movies. Don’t let fiction govern your life.
Ted – why are you focused on making this a race issue? Why are you focusing on a certain category of shootings to try to make it a race issue? Look across all gun homicides. It is all races. Why do you want to ascribe personality types and biases for white shooters but do not do the same for other races? You sound blatantly racist by focusing on just one race. Oh, but you are blaming white people … you can’t be racist. That’s right.
Perhaps you only hear news about mass shootings and you think that is all there is. If so, get your head out of the sand. If not, perhaps you just want to focus on how evil white males are and ignore the shootings by others. Makes you happier to do so.
The problem is across the country. We need to solve it together. Not by pitting one race against another.
So far in 2021:
-147 mass shootings
-0 “good” guys with a gun
End the myth.
It’s hardly a guarantee, Chuck, I agree. but I’d take that small chance to save myself rather than wait to be killed as the gun control lobby suggests I do, but you do you. I have a gun, I’m proficient in using it. Probably more so than virtually all of these mass shooters have been. That said, I don’t carry a firearm because I’m waiting to wind up victim of a mass shooting. I probably have a better chance of being attacked by a shark. It’s primarily for a more run of the mill self-defense scenario that I’m also unlikely to find myself in.
As far as the abilities of a “civilian” to shoot proficiently, I’ve emphasized training in the past. It’s not hard to get out and shoot a couple times a month and take a few advanced courses. Thats significantly more than the average law enforcement officer does, let alone the average criminal, and even the high profile shooters.
And I’ll reiterate, I’ll take the small chance it gives me over the guarantee of waiting to be killed. To suggest otherwise is laughable anti-gun propaganda, just as suggesting it is guaranteed to save your life is fantasy.
@Keith B, I respectfully disagree. As a nation, we need to address domestic terrorism in our society, which most often involves shooters with white nationalist, misogynist, anti-Muslim, anti-LGBTQ+ views. The last four years, the Trump administration totally ignored the Oathkeepers, Proud Boys and Three Percenters, even after these groups played an outsized role in the insurrection at the US Capitol on January 6th. The FBI and the DOJ have gone after these groups and their leaders who were involved in the insurrection and hopefully will continue to do so as part of a well organized campaign against domestic terrorism.
Calling someone like me who is trying to bring the relevant facts to this discussion a “racist” is not going to advance the conversation. But, you do you.
I am well aware that mass shootings are only a small part of the gun violence problem in out country. Statistics show that the vast majority of gun homicides are intra-racial, i.e., the shooter and victim are of the same race. Unfortunately, Black people are disproportionately likely to be victims. But both problems can be addressed by common sense gun control legislation that will make it easier to license gun-buyers and track firearms, particularly those which are sold privately at gun shows and otherwise. And that seems to be a bridge too far for Second Amendment advocates, which is unfortunate because the vast majority of Americans–including NRA members–support enhancing background checks.
The white man needs to save the black man is exactly the racist licensing scheme we have in MA. I’m by no means calling you a racist, Ted, this a different issue all together than the one being debated. In MA police chiefs have full discretion to grant or not grant licenses. It has been demonstrated that some police chiefs in major cities grant licenses along “class-based” lines, or to those with connections. It’s long been known that doctors and lawyers are among the few groups in Boston that will receive an unrestricted license. Also, anyone who thinks this licensing scheme put in place decades ago is for any other reason than to keep “undesirables” aka people of color from having equal access to lawfully owned firearms is kidding themselves. If the state is going to have a licensing scheme as it does at present, It should be centralized “shall issue,” not up to the whims of an individual unelected person.
I don’t think most reasonable people object to thorough instant background checks, but let’s not forget that Massachusetts is one of the many states that was not in compliance with giving data to the federal NICS system used for firearms purchases.
Registries are BS, it’s not the governments business to know what firearms I own.
The gun show loophole is also a common BS statement. Any dealer at a “gun show” is required to conduct the same checks they would at their storefront. Individuals will often meet at gun shows and sell to one another, and private transactions are governed by respective state laws.
Gun control isn’t going to solve gang/crime based homicides. Rival drug dealers or gang members who are intent on killing one another aren’t going to have any issue doing so. Ever. Solving these problems are much more complex and gun control is the cop-out used by lazy and inept politicians.
@Mike, we will just have to agree to disagree. I do not believe that the Second Amendment includes a right to privacy of gun owners, when guns are just as lethal as cars, and every state requires that you register your car and have a license and insurance in order to drive it.
Ted,
What would you suggest to remove the thousands of illegal guns in our major cities?
How would you force or encourage existing illegal owners to give them up? Ask them nicely?
Any changes in gun registration only affect NEW gun sales, the existing illegal guns are going to stay around forever until we get zero tolerance laws
Thank you to our Senator Creem for trying once again to ban the manufacture in Massachusetts of guns illegal in Massachusetts!
““Assault, military-style weapons manufactured right here in Massachusetts have been used to kill and slaughter children and people across the nation from Parkland to Aurora to San Bernadino to Las Vegas and too many other communities,” the Cambridge Democrat said.
John Rosenthal, longtime gun-control advocate and founder of Stop Handgun Violence Now, said a gun from the Springfield gun manufacturer was used in the Columbine, Colo., shooting 22 years ago Tuesday, where 15 people died and 24 were injured. ….
House and Senate Democrats on Tuesday filed “An Act to Prevent Mass Shootings,” which would bar the manufacturing of assault weapons in the state for consumer sales. The bill would allow continued manufacturing for the military. State law currently prohibits the sale, possession or transfer of assault-style weapons and large-capacity feeding devices with 10 or more rounds for most people.
State Sen. Cynthia Creem, another architect of the bill, pointed to a “loophole” in earlier gun-control efforts that left out manufacturing.”
https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/04/20/massachusetts-lawmakers-push-to-ban-assault-weapons-manufacturing/
Guns that shouldn’t be illegal in Massachusetts… and crushing remaining industry in Springfield and forcing out thousands of jobs for a headline is a great idea.
Glad I already own multiple grandfathered “assault weapons” that are no different functionally than my shiny new “ban compliant” firearms. I encourage every American to own a good semi-auto rifle. And for those who may be dealing dealing with the headaches of Maura Healey playing god, the IWI Tavor and Sig Sauer MCX are great Massachusetts “compliant” rifles that you should check out.
“State law currently prohibits the sale, possession or transfer of assault-style weapons and large-capacity feeding devices with 10 or more rounds for most people.” Assault style is an entirely made-up and constantly changing definition. Fortunately, Massachusetts residents can still get great, reliable, semi-automatic rifles. They just may lack some of the “extra dangerous” features like an adjustable stock. Fortunately, MILLIONS of magazines were made before the grandfather date, and though they are artificially priced high, with a little prudence they aren’t hard to come by. The “assault weapons ban” is just another example of Massachusetts harassing the gun owner.
And Ted, your right to own a firearm is different from your privilege to own a car. Considering a strong portion of the 2nd Amendment was for defense against the government, telling the government exactly what you have strikes me as a pretty serious infringement. Obviously you disagree, and that’s fine.
Mike doesn’t live in Newton. We don’t know who Mike is, no matter what he claims, or anything about him, other than he likes guns a lot. All kinds of guns. And he brings his gun with him when he goes to restaurants. For all we know, he could be from Oklahoma. Why do people continue to engage with him on this topic?
I already told you I spent my entire childhood in Newton and my entire education is from NPS, went to grad school in Newton, my entire family still lives in Newton, and I wind up in Newton on a weekly basis and will go to this shop when it opens. I get it, you hate engaging people with different view points from your own.
Mike is from the area it seems, and even if he is not, the arguments he is making are often used by gun control opponents. They should be heard. Regardless of the subject, if you accept anonymous comments you cannot assume anything about the commenter.
Ted – yes, we do need to address domestic terrorism. But why do you single out something over and over again that results in FAR fewer deaths than all the other gun homicides? Why not say all of those homicides need to be addressed as well? Perhaps because you are not worried about being caught up in them but are about domestic terrorism?
Ok. A lot of different directions in this dissertation. Can someone explain something to me ? EVERYONE seems knowledgeable in this area, or at least have an opinion. Can you tell me how does a person who wants to open this store seem to do all that’s legally required then gets denied at the eleventh hour because of a sudden public outcry? I’m not a proponent of guns. There are millions of them in this country which is basically , ridiculous. But they are here. No matter what I think. And more disturbing than this gun store is the fact that nobody at City Hall knew it was coming and the knee jerk reaction to be caught unaware was to slap a shut down order on the business ???? And now rush through some kind of City Ordinance that wasn’t there when this business first applied ??? Sounds like perfect grounds for a lawsuit. And it’s just plain cowardly and wrong for City Government to gang up on the prospective owners in this way.
You could see the writing on the wall with this nonsense from the beginning. Some of the same people (some elected) that have screamed for more “affordable” housing in the past (but never wanted it to be built near them of course) are now leading the charge here. The fear mongering and hyperbole are hitting limits even I thought were unapproachable.
We’ve gone from “we need more training for people” to the “2nd Amendment isn’t absolute”. I’ve retorted to some of this already and yet we’re still yelling at the sky. Training? Are people accidentally shooting themselves and others at break-neck pace? The 2nd Amendment guarantees the government “will not infringe upon” your ability to own a gun. Period. The perceived connection that this has anything to do with “hunting” makes me wonder what they teach in Civics these days.
We’re now lumping in daily gang violence as “mass shootings”, trying to paint a narrative where these incidents are popping up “all over” the country at break-neck pace. 3/4’s of these shootings are happening in the same cities, in the same neighborhoods, day in and day out, year in and year out. In Chicago, 95% of guns used in the commission of a homicide were obtained illegally. If a criminal wants a weapon, they’re going to get one. Sadly, Chicago has been the failed experiment in regards to the effectiveness of these so called “anti crime’ legislation’s.
If you don’t like what a legally run business is selling, don’t patronize said business. It’s really that simple. Its rather amusing to see all these internet sleuths unable to do some basic statistical analysis. Like I stated before, when E&J guns was operating out of West Newton, violent crime actually went down!!!! Is anyone paying attention or does it just not fit the narrative enough to accept it? Don’t believe me? Go to police headquarters and look at the number’s for yourselves..
Lastly, the city as well as some of its Rep’s should be ashamed of themselves. The fact that emotional, online rhetoric led to a pseudo push to cancel an already approved business is concerning, to say the very least. I’m not sure if that “stop work” order was real that I saw a picture of? If they’re planning on strong arming a retroactive zoning change and applying that order so they cant open in time…..we’ll be paying out a rather large Federal lawsuit….as we have in the past for overzealous, emotion-based decision’s
Jane Frantz,
I’m just like Mike, I love shooting, hunting and fishing. 3rd generation to live and work in this city, do I count? Who are you, do you know “everyone”? Acting like the village online gatekeeper isn’t a good look, IMO it comes across as snooty…
Are Mike and Michael J Ball the same person? I ask this because Michael replied to a question posed to Mike. I thought you could only sign on to Village 14 using one name.
Yes — my phone auto-filled my full name using my email.
It’s hilarious that people think I’m lying about my connection to Newton cause I like guns.
Received this via email last night…
“ A zoning change has been drafted and I co-docketed it along with every other councilor (#145-21 on page 5). It would allow gun shops in 4 zones, which Councilor Pam Wright noted includes the following areas (map).
11 locations north of the Pike with a concentration in Nonantum
1 location just south of the Pike
Riverside Center
Needham St – both sides
Wells Ave
Wegman’s plaza on Rt 9
The Street on Rt 9
4 other locations in Upper Falls
1 location in Lower Falls”
ONCE AGAIN, Nonantum and Upper Falls is screwed and the sacrificial lamb of NIMBY Newton. This is absolutely BS and extremely disappointing.
https://www.newtonma.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/27803/637393052403770000
Write to your city councilor and the mayor with facts to back up your concerns. Most are aware of the situation but need to hear from more residents.
Thanks @Jane. Already on it!
A correction to curb some confusion in the comments this morning: Although a City Councilor’s email quoted above says “A zoning change has been drafted” that is not actually correct, as no draft has been released to us (on the City Council) yet and is not expected until tomorrow (4/23).
We *do* have a docket item, which for reasons of public notice laws spells out a lengthy list of potential zones to consider, but that is not a draft. A docket item represents the maximum that can be debated and voted on. If that full set of zones were to be approved, then I suppose the list of locations would be basically more or less correct, but again we do not have even a draft before us yet, and we definitely have not debated (let alone approved) which zones/locations make sense. I would be very surprised if that ends up being the final list. I am sure every Councilor will weigh in.
This is to say nothing, as well, of the proposed special permit approval process where such a proposed business would have to obtain the support of 16 councilors out of 24.
@Matt Lai: I’m looking at the zoning amendment, which I believe is here:
https://www.newtonma.gov/government/planning/plans-policies-strategies/firearms-zoning-amendment
And see nothing about locations. The map you linked to is just an overall zoning map of the city. Where are your numbers coming from?
Thanks @Bill. Appreciate you and the other Ward 5 Councilors (and others) reaching out privately to clarify! Have to say, it was a bit of relief.
It may come as a shock to you, dear fellow Newtonians, but Newton is, in fact, part of the state, which is in fact part of this country.
Isn’t it funny how only when it happens in your own back yard you raise an outcry? And even then, you are trying to push it into someone else’s back yard – north of the Pike maybe?
Changing the rules mid game doesn’t seem to bother you when it serves your purpose, but remember: its a slippery slope, you could be on the other end of the stick next time. It’s also called hypocrisy.
If only you put a fraction of the effort into preventing gun violence in neighboring Boston instead of fighting one legal business opening here in Newton… But you can just easily avoid this violence in Boston, right? You don’t live there, so who cares, right?
But hey, if the realities of the problems this country faces will stare at you every time you get ice cream on Washington Ave, what’s the point of living in an “affluent suburb”?
I hope this gun store will open in Newton. It represents reality. It’s about time influential Newtonians face it, and join the work to change it for EVERYONE, not NIMBY it.
@Newtoner – the numbers/locations list was from Councilor Norton’s email. The way the list is constructed makes it look like North of the Pike is getting screwed (an easy powder keg to light in this town, speaking as someone living north of the Pike), but the N/S distribution is a bit more wide than that. Breaking out the “11” and better defining what “a concentration in Nonantum” means precisely would be helpful.
Finding the proposed changes on the maps are hard to parse on a quick look, at least for me.
MG – How on earth do you know what actions Newton residents have taken against gun violence? Speak for yourself. You have no idea about what others have done to address this issue.
JF – I would advise you and all who suggest the zoning changes to think of this store as minority women owned, and the proposed after-the-fact zoning changes as institutional discrimination, and we can call it a day.
Yeah.
In a state where everyone has to be duly licensed by the Commonwealth to merely possess a gun—nevermind buy one—these people are still freaking out. And you gotta love the woman tripping over herself after she just made up a stat on the spot. If someone can find that data, I’d appreciate it (my guess is it doesn’t exist, and even if it does, it’s not relevant to Massachusetts).
Remember, it’s not really about guns—it’s about letting everyone know how committed to “the team” you are.
@Mama Goose: The present location of the store is north of the pike. The zoning change may actually push it to the south side, which would be rather inconsistent with the “everyone’s screwing the north side” narrative.
@Newtoner: Good. I honestly don’t care where this store ends up, it will not increase or decrease gun violence in Newton or anywhere else. Don’t really see the rationale for zoning it a certain distance from schools, either. As long as this store is legal and operating according to the law, I see no rationale in the zoning laws. Quite the opposite – out of sight out of mind, which is why I hope it will end up smack in the middle of Newton Centre, and I hope behind the counter will be two minority women making a good living and contributing to the community. Gun stores are legal here, priod. This is a legitimate business. It may lead to less morbidity and mortality than an ice cream shop or a fast food chain. I also despise banks, but they’re everywhere. Deal with it.
Interesting info about one of the newton home invaders caught by the police last week.
Was previously arrested for illegal possession 8 years ago. I didn’t realize the penalties for illegal gun possession is so lax. Mandatory life sentence please.
Assuming a thief is willing to go into an occupied home, it would not be unreasonable to assume this prior illegal gun owner was probably armed at the time.
http://archive.suffolkdistrictattorney.com/drug-suspect-had-loaded-gun-bulletproof-vest-and-laser-sight-prosecutors-say/
“John Rosenthal, longtime gun-control advocate and founder of Stop Handgun Violence Now, said a gun from the Springfield gun manufacturer was used in the Columbine, Colo., shooting 22 years ago Tuesday, where 15 people died and 24 were injured. ….”
The Springfield Armory in Massachusetts shut its doors in 1968.
@Donna Gefter The Springfield Armory was a federal facility for military ordnance. Smith and Wesson, on the other hand, has it’s headquarters in Springfield. Not sure if they also have manufacturing there.
@Joan Belle Isle
I believe the legislation docketed by Senator Creem to stop the manufacturing of AR-15 type weapons (large capacity, semi automatic weapons) sold in other states is intended to halt Smith & Wesson operations in Massachusetts. These firearms are illegal in Massachusetts but the company does export them for sale in states where they are legal.
Apologies if I have not accurately described the weapon type.
And yes, according to company data by Smith & Wesson, they have manufacturing facilities in Springfield, Mass. (their largest plant), Maine and Connecticut. Notably they supply firearms to the US military as well as to consumers and were exempted from the COVID shutdown as an essential industry.
There’s no need for guns here. Period. End of discussion.
@Dexter – Agree 1000%. The Second Amendment should be abolished just like the 18th Amendment was.
We have towns in Ma that can decide whether to allow the sale of alcohol.
Massachusetts requires that a series of questions of whether to go dry be placed on each municipality’s local ballot every two years, unless the municipality has voted to allow or prohibit liquor sales in three such consecutive elections.
Why not a similar procedure for guns? Does this violate the 2nd Amendment? It seems crazy to me that a city is at the mercy of this person who wants to open a gun store in our city.
Dexter and Lisa, I personally agree with you both. But this is not the topic of discussion here. There is a law in the country and in the state, and Newton as part of both needs to abide by it. You want to change the law? go ahead. Until then, it is in place. End of discussion. Placing a gun store out of sight (even out of town) will do absolutely nothing to change anything about gun violence. Maybe, just maybe, having this store in plain sight and as a part of the community, might build some bridges between polarized sides. I wish the store owners would chime in.
A lot of the comments here go right to the heart of how a large segment of the country does indeed want to “take our guns.”
Can someone explain or estimate how this gun store can even operate at profit given the crazy low gun ownership rate in Newton?
Will this be the nearest gun store to Boston downtown?
Very impressed with the speed of the council on the zoning draft, its a shame everything else takes them years.
@Bugek: Nothing clears the mind like an imminent hanging.
From Mayor Fuller: “…. I first learned that a proprietor had applied for a license to open this gun shop on Washington Street a few weeks ago.”
@Bugek Newton is a great/convenient location for a gun shop. There are few “good” gun shops in the area. Four Seasons in Woburn is probably the best within an hour or more of Boston, and I don’t think anything else really comes close. I guess it remains to be seen if this shop does — but not if the NIMBYs have their way.
Amy – I feel like more people should be talking about that point from Fuller.
So, my suspicion is that the gun shop is just a red herring. Oh, people of Newton, you don’t want a gun shop here? How about if we just build a nice big luxury condo building, to Airbnb out for big bucks to Russian oligarchs? Wouldn’t that be so much better? We can do that, keep everybody happy – not a gun shop! What’s not to like?
2 men caught with illegal guns in Newton. one lives in Newton, the other in Natick:
https://patch.com/massachusetts/newton/two-men-guns-arrested-newton
We need to focus on prosecuting those who intentionally have illegal guns. Obviously, they were intended to use for criminal purposes
I would love to see out liberal politican’s push for maximum sentence zero-tolerance for illegal gun owners. Why not?
@Bugek, they’ll spend no time in jail, and probably won’t even wind up with any convictions. They just arrested a dude in Boston for murder the other day who had years and years of firearms offenses on his record.
In the meantime, authoritarians like Healey and her supporters will continue to try to make the lives of gun owners who do jump through all the hoops miserable. God forbid I have a 15 round magazine made after 1994 in my glock.
To clarify, the 2 caught with illegal guns in Newton.
One skipped his court appearance and the other was released with GPS tracker.
I understand the need to regulate legal gun stores more but a person owning ILLEGAL guns scares the hell out of me more.
Why were these ppl just released back to the public? What other reason would you have to hoard illegal ammunition… other than to threaten killing law abiding residents.
Newton is the loaded with whiny drama queens .. The Snowflake City .. a lot of pretentious limousine liberals who have had soft, sheltered lives .. they even whine about Firefighter memorial flags and leaf blowers
People interested in this issue should check out Jenna Fisher’s exceptionally well reported article on Patch, “Owner Of Proposed Gun Store Applied For Newton License In January,” [April 30]. It details what Mayor Fuller knew, and when she knew it. In my opinion, the article indicates a serious disconnect between the mayor and Newton Police Department that may have implications for the upcoming mayoral race.
I’d rather not see any gun stores in Newton, have signed all the petitions and hope all the proposed zoning actions are taken (which seems to be a forgone conclusion); however let’s not turn this into Watergate. “What did she know, and when did she know it!?” A piece of info got lost in the bureaucracy for a couple of weeks. It’s unfortunate, and by all means let’s have future mandatory notifications on similar commercial license applications, but these things happen. If the Mayor had come out in support of the store then maybe it’s an election issue. Otherwise, the city has plenty of other election issues to vote on.
@Pretentious
I don’t disagree with the sentiment of your statement, but I could do without your childish, labels and name calling.
People here may be whiny, but they’re mostly not the things you said they are.
You’re whining about the whiners adds nothing positive … Does nothing aside from giving you an opportunity to be mean.
Sorry, not sorry.
@Adam B: I agree with Mike Striar. Not only does it indicate a disconnect between the Mayor and the Police Department (communication issue), but it also indicates a disconnect between the Mayor and the City Council – who apparently were not “informed” (communication and collaboration issue), and a disconnect with the public (communication, collaboration, and transparency issue).
Shots fired. (I couldn’t resist.)
Remember that the City Council and its Zoning & Planning Committee options are limited by the Mayors law department. The Major has the power.
Recall, a few years ago, the full city council **unanimously** (all 24) passed a home rule petition changing the city charter (Docket #7 6-19). Mayor Fuller **vetoed** it because of the provision which the Mayor most adamantly opposed: “the inclusion by the subcommittee of a provision regarding the hiring of outside legal counsel directly by the City Council.”
https://village14.com/2019/05/17/mayors-says-no-thank-you-to-city-councils-charter-amendments/
Basically the Major limits the legal counsel to her legal department. The Law department report to mayor, and not the city council. Under the Fuller administration it is pretty clear our Law department are not adequately exploring options that the residents / city council would like to explore.
The city council desperately needs an alternative view. If I recall correctly they have $100k set aside for alternative legal representation. I would suggest people start advocating they exercise that option.
I’m not sure I understand how folks think this will be an important political issue. If the store never opens and the mayor doesn’t support the store, by November folks will remember that the Mayor and the City Council made sure the store didn’t open. The fact that for a few weeks the police and the Mayor were not on the same page only matters if it somehow allowed the store to open.
I’ll also note that the store owner didn’t pull permits from my understanding. Can’t blame the city when the store owner didn’t follow the rules. (and it begs the question whether the store owner can handle the complicated rules for federal gunshops if they can’t figure out that they need to pull a building permit for any tenant fit-out)
I do appreciate that folks who oppose the mayor like to make things political, and I’m sure there are lessons to be learned here. But this is a lot like Covid in my view. Most voters are going to vote based on results and how they feel in November.
Also, has anyone heard if the Mayor has a challenger? I mean, getting kind of late to run a viable campaign if you are an underdog challenger. I’m guessing the reason that no one has stepped up to the plate is that the polling done to date has shown some strong numbers for the Mayor. Do I have my timing off/missing something?
OFCP
Jane:
Took me a bit, but I assume you are referring to the 200K the mayor has in her campaign account.
That’s a lot of money. I wouldn’t run against her either.
Incumbents are tough to beat, she’s got good polling, and a lot of cash. And it is May already.
If you had another meaning, please tell me more.
Nope. No one’s going to blow off that kind of money on a campaign for a job most people wouldn’t want in the first place.
The mayor probably didn’t even think it would amount to an issue and gave it no further thought. Never forget what a bunch of wealthy suburbanites quarantining from the plague can do when they find a false-sense of purpose. “We must screw over this small business we have no understanding of BECAUSE GUNS.” I don’t follow mayoral politics, but this is only an issue if you are a NIMBY who is running out of issues on which to virtue signal.
We don’t like guns. Except when police have them. We don’t like police, either.
Boy oh, boy, Mike sure seems “mean” in expressing his opinion. Perhaps Mr. Ciolino should be posting another finger wagging reprimand. The first one did not seem to work.
We really must all be reminded about about how important civility is, what with V14 being such a central part of Newton’s civic life.
Let’s start by getting the facts straight. According to the Patch article, the gun store applied to the police department on January 27th. According to the Mayor, she was unaware of the application “until the week of March 29th.” That’s a two month period during which the police department apparently did not inform the mayor’s office of the gun store application, [a highly unusual event for Newton].
In my opinion, the issue at hand is not the ultimate disposition of the gun store. The problem is that the notification timeline indicates a serious disconnect between the Mayor and the police department.
This disconnect comes at a time when policing is being redefined in many communities across the country, and we’re counting on the Mayor of Newton to manage those changes locally. It comes at a time when the police shooting death of a young man in Newton Highlands has not been addressed with the transparency we should all expect after an incident of that type. It comes at a time when an unarmed man, in a separate incident, nearly wrestled an officer’s handgun away, as the result of questionable procedures pertaining to mental health calls.
All of the above lead me to question whether Mayor Fuller is properly communicating with and adequately overseeing the actions of the Newton Police Department.
Right now we need to get an ordinance on the books. Until that happens, the rest is just a distraction.
@Elmo Is that you throwing shade my way 🙂