Here’s an interesting exchange between a Newton resident and City Councilor. First, here’s an email sent to the City Council.
I live at 65 Taft Ave, W. Newton and am writing to voice my support for the Dunstan East proposal.
Higher density multi-family housing, in the appropriate locations, is a key to advancing my (and our) goals of both social and environmental justice in Newton. This proposal creates significantly new affordable housing, and it creates it in a location where residents will not need cars, and will be able to walk to shopping and cultural amenities and use public transit to get to work.
This is what good, thoughtful modern development looks like.
Let me know if you have questions.
Thank you.
W. Bart Lloyd | Consultant
Preservation of Affordable Housing, Inc.
And here’s the response from Newton City Councilor Lenny Gentile (cc’d to the council and planning department.
Just what we need. Another high density residential development with people living on top of one another. It should be built just in time for the next pandemic.
Regards,
Lenny Gentile
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding. Councilor Gentile wrote that to a constituent??
Yes
“Interesting” is the kindest thing one could say about this.
Very unprofessional. Why would a Councilor right something like that and think its a good idea?
Please — stand down folks…
https://www.berklee.edu/news/berklee-now/what-world-needs-now-student-made-video
All Councilor Gentile seems to be saying is that building more high density housing is contraindicated if future pandemics are addressed as it has been in Covid -19. For the same reason, any further mass transit development is contraindicated.
The high standard of living in Newton since World War II would have been impossible without the residential and, more importantly, the commercial density of Boston, Cambridge, and the rest of the inner metro area.
Believing that limits on residential density will somehow make a prosperous Newton immune to future pandemics misunderstands density, prosperity, and pandemics.
I’d have to review the Dunstan East proposal before I can specifically comment on it but that response is absolutely ridiculous. There’s a bunch of dense cities that have been affected by COVID-19, yet they are actually doing well containing the spread of cornoravirus (http://cityobservatory.org/density-is-not-destiny-covid-in-cascadia/), hence the correlation of more density and more coronavirus cases doesn’t lead to the causation of more density leading to more cornoavirus cases. Also, if we’re seriously going to mitigate the next pandemic, I’m sure there’s measures the city council can pass so we are ready for it.
@Ted, tell us how you really feel!
Lenny, although sarcastic, expressed his opinion clearly. So be it. He did not resort to a profanity-laced ad hominem attack. Ted, you are a better person than that. In the old days you would hobble together a tenuous argument that was at least superficially logical.
Luckily, Ted asked Lenny to “do something to himself”, otherwise his post could have legally been interpreted as a threat.
… since Ted is a lawyer, I’m sure he already knows this.
It should be mentioned that the death rate from Covid19 is virtually identical in the city of Boston (1/3540) as it is in low density Newton (1/3556)
I removed Ted’s comment because it violated V14 community standards.
Ted, if you’d like to take another shot and express yourself without obscene references or ad-hominem atacks, feel free. I share your outrage.
@Jerry: Do you have similar stats on infection rate?
Amy, stats per municipality are available here:
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/covid-19-response-reporting#covid-19-cases-by-city/town-
…but trying to deduce precise information or comparisons from them is impossible.
We know that any location with retirement homes is likely to have a high rate of infection, which can skew the numbers. The Biogen hotspot seeded any number of secondary hotspots that have little to do with density.
Furthermore, an individual’s chance of infection is related to the density and the health of the people around them throughout their daily life. I dare say that, before shelter-in-place, the average employed person in Newton came into contact with more people outside the city than inside. Commercial density in place of employment and shopping is at least as important a factor as residential density. Number of workers in healthcare matters. Number of people tested matters.
There are just too many factors that confound a simplistic analysis.
However, we can see evidence that residential density doesn’t necessarily lead to greater infection rate. For example, Somerville, one of the densest cities in the state and three times as dense as Newton, has about the same rate of infections as our city.
COVID-19 spreads faster in densely populated places, but competence and policy matter far more.
Population density of South Korea: 1302 per square mile (45,000 for Seoul)
COVID-19 deaths per 1 M residents: 5
Population density of Massachusetts: 885 per square mile (13,841 for Boston)
COVID-19 deaths per 1 M residents: 287
Does this inconvenient truth matter to Councillor Gentile?
A major problem isn’t apartments per se, but rather over-crowded living units. The biggest hotspots in NYC and Boston have been due to low-income people being unable to afford adequate housing and therefore living with multiple people squeezed into a small number of bedrooms. So places like Elmhurst in NYC (spotlighted in a NYT article) or Chelsea and certain Boston neighborhoods in MA have very high rates, exacerbated by those so scared of having their or family members’ immigration status examined that they wait until they’re direly sick before getting medical help.
@Michael: Thanks, Michael! I just thought maybe Jerry had the statistics handy. I actually check the mass.gov website everyday for updates and consistently visit Jack Prior’s website: https://covid19.jackprior.org/2020/04/22/latest-projections-21apr/ consistently too. I used to check the Newton website daily too, but now they don’t provide weekend updates and I find that the mass.gov daily report so much more informative.
I am also working with a group looking at the racial disparity in COVID-19 cases too.
@Adam– Political censorship is WRONG. Ted Hess-Mahan has earned the right to speak his mind in his own words. He’s not only a highly respected member of the community, he also happens to be one of the best elected leaders this city has had in a generation. Where the heck do you get off removing his comment? Did it offend your fragile sensibilities? This is the second recent incident of V-14 censoring a political comment. A third will prompt my permanent departure as a commenter here, because I will not support a site that censors political thought.
@Mike,
Ted’s comment seemed to be more personal than political. I agree that political opinions should be left for readers to decide which way they come down on an issue. There is no real benefit to attacking someone personally.
@TWT– Ted’s comment was in response to a political position taken by a sitting elected official. Elected office holders are not immune from public criticism and do not need V-14 editors to protect them.
@Mike Striar, if you’re genuinely looking for a third comment that got eighty-sixed, in addition to your rabble-rousing “swinging from the lamp poles like Benito Mussolini” and Ted H-M’s charming, late-night “red-hot” missive, there’s also this moonbat rant by “Michael” at the beginning of the lockdown, which was promptly removed by Greg Reibman:
I understand the need to occasionally remove comments. For example, a libelous comment, or attack on a private individual. I can understand why my negative comment about Mussolini was removed. I even suggested removing photos of minors from V-14 that were used without permission. But as I pointed out, Ted’s comment was political in nature, and in response to a comment from a sitting elected official. That is political censorship!
Following that logic, if I submit a political op-ed to the NYT Times and they don’t publish it, it is political censorship?
@Jeffrey– You’re comparing apples to apricots. It would certainly be political censorship if a NY Times editor removed a comment from their online comment section under these same circumstances. Freedom of speech is a beautiful thing. Why not just embrace it?
I can’t say I agree with Mike Striar that Ted’s comment was “political thought.” But I do agree that the comments are censored unfairly.
A couple months ago, I had a harmless figure skating joke about Tonya Harding removed by Greg. It’s no surprise… I’m sure Greg is still salty about the GOAT Oksana Baiul crushing Nancy Kerrigan’s hopes and dreams at Lillehammer in 1994.
But I digress….
My real point is, the moderators of V14 should be open about their practice of removing comments that bother them personally. Greg and Co. describe their blog’s comment policy as if they are fostering the world’s greatest democratic forum. But in reality, the average V14 moderator is way closer to Pol Pot than Socrates.
There was absolutely no political motive here. I even went on the record as saying I agreed with the general message Ted was trying to convey. The comment was removed because of the tone.
Yes, we set the bar a bit higher when electeds are involved, but using expletives, even with asterisks, in directed insults is simply not acceptable here, sorry, and let’s not play the freedom of speech card. This isn’t between an individual and the government. I do what V14 moderators have always done. I consulted with the other moderators, got consensus, brought down the comment, and called it out. V14 is community with rules, as you well know, and those who run the blog try to keep this a place where people want to participate. If you can’t play by the rules, play somewhere else. I can count many more than three times moderators had to remove offensive comments — including yours — so we can say goodbye now, Mike.
@Bluefootedbooby, you apparently saw Ted’s comment, you can read the rules for yourself, and you can see that I personally announced when I removed the comment. What else would you like us to do to open the process?
Sincerely,
Pol
Pol,
I think what was done on Ted’s comment was appropriate and thank you for the transparency.
I admit the source of my frustration is the removal of the Tonya Harding comment, and other innocent comments that were not in violation of the rules. I wish that certain moderators would be more open about their practice of deleting comments that annoy them personally, but do not violate the rules.
However, I admit I have only seen this with SPECIFIC (cough cough, Rean Soche and Reg Greibman) moderators.
I apologize for generalizing all V14 moderators in the same Pol Pot bucket, and thank you for doing the right thing here.
I will happily refer to you as Socrates from here on out if you’d like as a reward for your moderation this morning.
Thanks,
Idi Amin
It’s unfortunate that this thread has devolved into a debate about a removing a comment, rather than Councilor Gentile’s remark.
@Adam– I did not suggest you had a political motive, but your action has a political result. You’re too thinned skinned, and too quick to the trigger. Ted had every right to say exactly what he wrote.
You mentioned that you “set the bar a bit higher when electeds are involved.” Why are elected officials entitled to a special level of protection from public comments? Seems like a very Trumpian mindset to me.
I agree. Ted can stand on the corner of Washington & Cherry Streets and say it. Nobody should stop him. Maybe you’d choose to let him say it in your living room. That’s your call.
Perhaps I should have said set the bar “lower” for our standards. When dealing with comments aimed at public officials, I meant to suggest that we try much harder not to pull the trigger.
I’m buying Bluefootedbooby a drink as soon as this lock-down is over.
If Ted had managed to express his strongly held – and strongly worded – opinion about Counselor Gentile’s remarks and position on development without also inviting the Counselor to go F himself, I’m sure his comment would still be there. I think that’s a pretty standard bar. Even the NY Times won’t print comments inviting the president to get F’d. (Imagine how many of those have to get removed every day??? )
@Greg
Totally agree. We need to really focus on the unacceptable comment from the guy we don’t like and ignore the unacceptable comment from the guy we do like.
@Donald Ross: The “unacceptable comment from the guy we do like” was appropriately removed by one of this blog’s moderators. (Oh and he apologized.)
@Ted Hess-Mahan: Godspeed. All the best to you and yours.
Sorry all for losing my cool. My post was “cringeworthy” at best. I sincerely apologize.
Here’s the thing. Newton does not qualify for a safe harbor from Chapter 40B, so the ZBA cannot deny a comprehensive permit for Dunstan East or impose conditions making it uneconomic. That is, unless, there is a “local concern” such as a public health or public safety issue. Over the past 20 years of dealing with Alderman/Councilor Gentile, I have been impressed by his work ethic, but disgusted by his bullying and rhetoric when it comes to residential development and affordable housing in particular.
His outburst is a cynical attempt to gin up a public health and safety issue that simply does not exist. COVID-19 is no joke. It has raced through nursing homes and senior housing like a wildfire because of congregate living, not apartment style living. And if you think living in a single family home and taking all of the precautions will protect you from COVID-19, think again. My household was affected by COVID-19, and we have barely left the house in a month, going out only for groceries or to go to the pharmacy.
While it is no excuse for my own outburst, my outrage was fueled by the fact that a member of my household was struck by this pandemic in a manner that I can only describe as terrifying. We are all healthy now, but it is never far from being on our minds. So, if anyone is going to make a bombastic comment about the pandemic, watch out. Please take notice that I am kicking butt and taking names.
Ted, I’m sorry to hear about your family’s being affected by COVID-19 and am happy they recovered. Notice taken.
I agree completely about Councilor Gentile’s motivation and am glad you rewrote your comment to explain both why Gentile’s reply was ignorant and why his use of the pandemic as a weapon against affordable housing prompted such outrage.
@Greg
You’re making my point.
Our guy says something truly vile. We remove it, sweep it under the rug, try to move everybody along.
Your entire post (as I understood it) is about the tone and tenor of the conversation as delivered by “the other guy”. I think it’s totally fair game to address the tone and tenor coming from our side.
Furthermore, you’ve given a guy a platform to deride ‘the other guy’ for “bullying” while **in the same post** declaring that he is “kicking butt and taking names”.
Just to be clear, I think Councilor Gentile’s comment was in poor taste both in content and delivery. I found former Councilor Hess-Mahan’s comments *significantly* more offensive.
@Donald Ross, you’re right. My original post was vulgar and ad hominem, and I am deeply embarrassed and ashamed by it.
That being said, I stand by my more recent post. I am not going to stand by while anyone uses the COVID-19 pandemic as a punch line without calling them out in a forceful manner.
@Ted – so sorry to hear that COVID has had a profound effect on your family.
To the original comment – unacceptable but it’s not the first time I’ve heard this baseless criticism. It has been brought up on listserves and Facebook as well. As I said on Facebook, by that logic, let’s tear down all the apartments in Boston and become a rural community. I’m sure that will work out really well for everyone involved.
If you really want to go live in the woods, nobody is stopping you…
@Meredith-
You are spot on. I spent the early part of the week covering that very story for one of the television networks. Multigenerational families living in close quarters in multi-family homes because of economic realities have been at a higher risk of infection. Chelsea and East Boston were specifically cited. It’s a horrible, frightening nightmare for these families for so many reasons.
@Ted-
I understand and feel your pain.
There are probably few people who haven’t had an immediate family member, relative, friend, or co-worker
directly affected by the virus.
It seems like a lifetime ago now, but
a beloved colleague of mine that I had worked alongside on & off for the last 25
years passed away from the virus about a month ago. Larry Edgeworth, who was an NBC sound technician, was most recently working out of 30 Rock in NY, and his death stunned the entire network.
Everyone is tightly wound.
Alderman Gentiles bedside manner could have been way better, but his
concerns shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand because I know other people who are scared out of their minds have the same fear he does.
There will be plenty of time to
rehash all of the important local issues and developments. The focus needs to be on managing the health care crisis at hand.
Under stress, we all sometimes slip to our less desirable behaviors. There is a bit of that going on here. We are all under varying degrees of stress, and long for a simplier time when the worst of our problems was disagreement on development and density.
How about changing the topic to comfort foods and sustaining our local businesses?
On that note, we’ve been getting take-out from Dunn Gaherin’s for several weeks, but I hadn’t ordered online until tonight. I have to say that they have the best ordering system I have ever seen. When I took my family’s orders with their desired customizations, I thought, “there is no way I’m gonna be able to do this on a computer” but it was a piece of cake.
It was a breeze to make selections and customizations, and there was a final note field for anything not covered. We’re drawing down a gift certificate, which made payment easy. I pulled up 30min later, dialed my cell, and without speaking a word Seana answered: “I’ll be right out with your food Jack”. The order included a nice container of fresh draft beer as well.
https://dunngaherins.com/
@Jack Prior. Yeah, no.
I did a bad thing. Lenny did a worse thing. Let’s talk about that.
@Paul Green. I love you man. I really do respect you and your views, even when we disagree.
Indulge me for a moment, and let me talk about the last few weeks in my house.
Imagine that you have asthma, and have a severe asthma attack, the worst you have ever had. Now, imagine an attack that is twice as bad as that.
Then, imagine that you are short of breath, and that you feel like someone is sitting on your chest. And that you can’t breathe.
Then imagine you have a fever as high as you have ever had. Night sweats. Hallucinations. Delirium. A bad acid trip.
Then imagine that instead if you, it is the person you love the most. That is what COVID-19 is like.
Any questions?
@Ted — Thank you for sharing your family’s experience. It is important for people to know this is not “just flu”.
Here a quick analysis of the newly released Covid-19 data from the Mayor’s office:
https://covid19.jackprior.org/2020/04/24/newton-4-23-update/
I’ll add to the “chorus.” Thanks for making another go at the comment, Ted. Glad to hear you’re all back to good health.
Our experience pales in comparison to that of other families who have lost loved ones. Nobody in our house died, nobody went on a ventilator or had to go to the hospital, and everyone is now healthy. But I don’t mind telling you that, at the time, I was scared. Scared for my family, scared for myself, and scared of the unknown.
Be well, and stay safe.
One good thing that will come out of this is hopefully the removal of those “open office spaces” that are so popular with the new tech companies. Cubicles are insulting enough.
And my daughter and her husband gave birth to our first grandchild last Friday. Both parents test positive for Covid-19 ( no symptoms), baby negative. Where do they live? Manhattan.
To say that density doesn’t matter belies common sense. Of course, with better mitigation you can overcome the issues of density. With poor healthcare and lack of clean water, west Africa is likely to be badly hit, even in low density areas ( According to an interview I heard with Bill Gates).
Density is a parameter, like all the others.
Rick,
Until there is a vaccine, i cant imagine many ppl will want to get onto crowded train to get to work.
Its unfortunate, but until there is a vaccine, companies in Boston should continue to encourage remote work where possible and subsidize parking to drive into work…. to help overcrowding on trains for those who dont have cars.
… again, only until a vaccine is available.
Who knows, maybe remote work becomes so mainstream that it solves the traffic and housing
costs argument for higher density
I believe I still hold the record for most removed comments.
I love all you clowns. Well, all except one.
Haven’t been here in a while….and interesting to see that things have not changed much.
Developer profit fueled by progressive propaganda. Liberals ripping into anyone who does not agree (surprised the normally targeted Emily Norton didn’t get weaved into this somehow). A blog poised as a neighborhood benefit, weaponized for Developers.
With a few months to lick my wounds post Northland, I’ve realized my opposition had much less to do with density, than the hypocrisy of Newton politics. We talk about the benefits of dense housing….from our single family homes. Speak of saving the environment…but splurging on inexpensive, disposable goods while driving our cars to do so (nice post @Michael!).
Read a post on FB the other day, about how “annoying” lead blower noise is at a time when, every yard a landscaper does could mean putting food on someone’s table, or not. Or another post about how Instacart shoppers (taking the job in trying to survive) are screwing up some well heeled housewife’s order. Oh the inconvenience!
And the intent of Riebman’s post?…to light a fire and raise pitch forks against Lenny Gentile…because he does not generally favor development. His comment was sarcastic, but by no means a profanity filled tirade. As a long serving member of the Council, he deserves the benefit of the doubt. The punishment does not fit the crime.
Then again, this is not the first time Lenny had a target on his back, and likely will not be the last.
We all as Newtonites, are so full of (poop). Sure, people of any color can move here…as long as it’s not red.
Things have changed so much since C-19, yet sadly some things stay the same.
Be safe.
PS. Before anyone calls me MAGA, I’m registered Independent – voting not for a party, but the person who best represents the issues.
PPS. Nice to not have to enter the current year to comment. 2020 has been a dumpster fire!
Matt, perhaps you are inclined to see what you want to see.
When I look at Village14 headline posts, I see people like Jerry Reilly doing everything they can to keep us laughing, talking, engaging. I see involved people sharing facts, ideas, and stories about our new abnormal. In general, I see V14 as one of our islands of our Newton social discourse during this time of isolation. Not some super-awesome exciting n33t one, but a place to check in once in a while.
As for this post, specifically comments, it has lots of the elements that reflect the human drama we are in, as well as the cores of us that make us who we are. Difficult times and traumatic experiences sometimes make people say ill-advised, unhelpful, regretful, even vulgar things in the moment. Being willing to open up and share that trauma is one of the most human and healing things one can do. And finally, to admit the wrongness of words and apologize for them, reframing our intent in stronger and more civil way, is something we should strive for in our imperfect world filled with fallible people. How we react to our failures is a separate quality to how we fail.
As for Councilor Gentile’s comments, let’s factor out the development piece in the hopes of coming closer to common ground. Even in our imperfect world filled with fallible people, civility, respect for other individuals, and benefit of the doubt are pretty bedrock to me. That holds especially for how elected officials and public servants treat the public, and how the public treats them.
Someone, anyone, who provides thoughtful comments to the city regarding any matter, any project, and policy, deserves personal respect and thanks for their contribution to the public process. Period. They are working within the system, taking time to be involved, putting their thoughts into words and adding them to the mix with other opinions. People deserve their say.
They don’t deserve sarcasm. They don’t deserve flippant answers about serious matters, or any matter. I think they even deserve more than a stock “thank you for your comments”, for instance something like, “your letter made my consider…” or “I understand your strongly felt views on …” or “this is why I disagree with you”.
But at the very least they deserve that thank you. Seems like basic civics and civility to me, much less politics 101.
Again, people say regretful things in the heat of the moment. But a written response to a constituent isn’t done, or shouldn’t be done, hastily or carelessly. A response by a Councilor also sent to rest of the City Council and city staff should be especially well-considered. These words are by definition part of the public record.
If Councilor Gentile has any words of clarification or followup, it would be good to hear them publicly. Everyone deserves that too.
Attention to these civic basics is how we get through both easy and trying times. They are part of the invariants that prove our mettle.
@Mike Halle: Well spoken. Nice to see a grown-up in the room.
@Ted: Glad you and the family are doing better. Hope you all continue to heal.
There was a recent article in the LA times about density and the virus, which tries to argue the councilors point.
I did not write this article and hope I wont be threatened for just posting a link to it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/op-ed-angelenos-love-suburban-100027115.html
@Bujek. Thank you for posting this article. I have read summaries of this argument in several publications, but I’ve never examined it in detail or seen it debated in an open forum with proponents of high density development. I’ve often thought it should be. Perhaps a start could be made here or in a new post. In any event, nobody should be threatened for posting an article or a link to an article on this or any other blog as long as the article itself isn’t threatening. This one certainly is not.
It seems like a typical refrain that comes up when the prospect of change comes to Newton is “Newton isn’t X”, where X is Boston, Cambridge, Somerville, Brookline, Amsterdam, etc.
Regarding Bugek’s quoted opinion piece, let me join in with a statement that shouldn’t be controversial: Newton isn’t Los Angeles.
In fact, I don’t even think Los Angeles is the Los Angeles imagined by the writer. Los Angeles suburbs still depend on the density of the city to provide critical commercial mass. From the piece, it sounds like the author means “Los Angeles isn’t New York City”.
You simply can’t cherry pick the benefits and downsides of density that you want. Get rid of Boston’s economic engine and the commercial density is brings, and Newton’s economic feet get kicked out from underneath it. But allow for that commercial density, you get some downsides and risks in addition to benefits.
We’re part of Boston Metro. Our lot is thrown in with the rest of the region. Our borders are porous to money, culture, risk of disease, and vehicle congestion alike. It’s a package deal.
Michael Halle is spot on about the connection between commerce and density. It is no coincidence that the first major outbreak in Massachusetts was because of the Biogen conference.
There is also a difference between urban “density” and congregate living. The reason that nursing homes and veterans homes have been hit so badly with COVID-19 is that there is a large group of people sharing bedrooms and common living spaces, and staff that come in contact with all of them, all the time, every day.
After more than a decade of posting far too many comments on Village 14 I’ve decided to make this one my last…
On at least three occasions that I am aware of, Village 14 overseers have removed posts critical of elected public officials. In my opinion, an open forum-news source that protects public officials from critical comments is completely unacceptable. Suppressing freedom of speech, particularly political speech, violates the spirit of the First Amendment. The removal of comments that are political in nature makes it impossible for me to continue posting here. I wish everyone on Village 14 well, and I’ll try to find another platform for expressing my opinions in the future.
Mike,
If you assume this blog is supposed to be a source of fair and balanced news then your objection is reasonable…
Its like when you go in to someones house to discuss a subject. You can say whatever you want, but they set the tone and agenda and can tell you to shutup and leave.
Btw, where are the other Newton discussion forums? Nextdoor? Facebook?
Free speech exists standing on a box on government property. There is no free speech on this forum or any other.