It’s not clear who is behind this survey but someone is interested in your thoughts on curbside organics collection in Newton as part of a possible pilot starting in March.
Do you think the city should provide separate curbside collection for food scraps?
by Greg Reibman | Dec 16, 2017 | Newton | 26 comments
No, no, a thousand times NO!
The survey is from the Dept. of Environmental Affairs in collaboration with the Solid Waste Commission, of which I am a member.
@Mike Striar. Wondering why you are having such a strong negative reaction to a voluntary pilot program to divert organics from our waste stream? Did you have a bad experience?
@Alison– Has a rodent study been conducted as part of this proposal? A study indicating this plan will not increase rodent activity might change my mind.
In my opinion, in general, Waste Management does a poor job controlling rodent infiltration in their bins. And the City does a weak job enforcing rodent control measures, particularly in and around village centers. So the potential is there for this new plan to be a rat-tastrophe.
I would like to see a food scraps recycling pilot, but I am not sure our family would use it all that much. We already compost 100% of our food scraps (organic waste except for meat and dairy), and accept contributions from our neighbors. Then, we recycle the compost into our neighbors’ vegetable gardens in exchange for being allowed some space to grow vegetables.
@Mike, so far we have not had any problems with vermin or coyotes, and we use a cedar enclosure and a rotating barrel for composting. We get a few cubic yards of compost per season (we use the barrel all winter but the composting slows down or stops in the cold weather).
Which category will throw be in?! So gross! Who’s going to police our recycling to be certain we’re all in compliance?!
Alison Leary would be better suited living moving to the deep woods of Maine where she can compost to her heart‘s content.
@Mike, keep in mind that composting isn’t adding any new types of waste and odors to your trash–it’s simply separating some of the items, so they can be recycled into compost. And, there are simple measures that can be taken to make sure that pests aren’t an issue (like using locking bins).
@Ted, as you may know, one of the huge benefits of curbside programs is that you can recycle food items, like meat, fish, and dairy, that shouldn’t be placed in a backyard bin (because backyard piles don’t reach high enough temperatures.) Also, while your backyard compost pile does slow down in cooler weather, there are a few things you can do to help keep it warm all winter long. Let me know if you want some tips…
There will always be a place for backyard composting, but I’m excited that Newton may add curbside organics pick up to its solid waste management strategy.
Thanks, Lauren. We probably would use the food scraps recycling for meat, fish and dairy. Most municipalities won’t accept it. And our closed barrel does compost all winter, if we remember to spin it regularly.
Ann, your last comment was mean-spirited, Trumpian, even.
It’s an interesting topic, which I’m surprised they limit the organic collection to only food wastes since there are certainly more compostable products. Presumably people are already putting food waste in the trash bins so I don’t see how making a separate bin specifically for organic waste would create a pest problem. If anything, the organic bin could be made more resistant to pests, i.e. locking lid. I don’t think I have enough food wastes to justify a separate bin though. I compost some things myself like coffee grinds, egg shells but never any meat wastes or produce that animals would eat.
I think the majority of the rat problem are the commercial establishments, mainly restaurants. There was a really nasty rat burrowing problem by the Newton Centre T stop at one point right next to the restaurant’s trash collection area.
Ding, ding, ding – Village14 Word of the Week award goes to Mike Striar for “ratastrophe”
Hi Mike,
I apologize for the late reply.
The last thing anyone wants to do is to give the rats and raccoons a buffet every night. The plan is to offer participants a secure container with a locked lid and compostable liners. Ventilated lids allow heat to escape and moisture evaporate, drying out food scraps and minimizing odor. The bins are picked up at the curb by the vendor and a clean container is left in its place.
This is actually more secure and hygienic that putting food waste in the blue trash bins. Who has not discovered trash bags ripped open the next morning by an animal that feasted on your discarded leftovers? In fact, NYC has a very successful curbside program which is also helping to reduce the city’s rat problem by having food waste stored in the more secure containers.
(@Ann, you don’t have to live in the backwoods of Maine to be able compost. Even New Yorkers do it).
The City of Cambridge piloted a curbside organics collection program for over a year and has expanded it. It may now be Citywide (I need to check the status).
Why are we considering this program? Yes, it is better for the environment but it also has the potential to save us money. The City of Newton spends 7-8 million dollars a year on trash and recycling. I was very interested to hear that during Cambridge’s pilot the average amount of organics collected was 6.6 lbs per household per week. This reduced trash by nearly 35%! That is a very significant percentage that could reduce what we pay in tipping fees. In addition, the MA Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) will give us a grant for the pilot. Besides I like pilots. It’s a great way to test a new idea or project and figure out how it will best work for us.
Thinking about he not so distant future, trash and recycling fees are not likely to get cheaper. We are not permitting new trash incinerators and we have rapidly dwindling landfill capacity in Massachusetts. The current system is not sustainable.
@Alison Leary – Where do the collected organics go?
@Jerry -The vendor is Bootstrap Compost. They take food waste to Rocky Hill Farm in Saugus and a very small amount to a municipally owned farm in Winchester.
@Alison– Newton is most fortunate to have a City Councilor like you with a deep concern for environmental issues. I know Emily is very focused on issues like this as well. I appreciate your responding to my concern about curbside garbage collection. However, you didn’t answer my question as to whether or not a rodent study has been conducted as part of your plan. I assume it has not. I don’t want to um, trash your idea. But moving a curbside garbage program forward without a clear understanding of its impact on rodent populations seems like a very risky proposition to me. I’d urge you to conduct a study befor trying to implement the program.
Why would this program cause more of a ratastrophe than the very same food waste that ends up in the regular garbage cans?
Newton would not be inventing the wheel here. Much larger municipalities, including New York City, Toronto, Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Denver, San Francisco, and Cambridge all offer curbside compost bins. I do not think Newton would need to conduct a rodent study to be reassured that the bins would be expected to decrease rodent populations, not increase them. In general the bottom of the bin lies a few inches off the ground, which is out of the smell range of rats. They are made of thick plastic, and unlikely to cause any issues that aren’t present with trash placed in blue bins currently. And if the ability to compost reduces trash generated and reduces need for overflow bags (which sits directly on the curb) then it would be expected to decrease rodent populations. NY Department of Sanitation is conducting an ongoing study about the effects on rodent population, but their hypothesis is that it would indeed reduce the rodent population. Cities that have implemented trials have ended up expanding compost programs citywide without any apparent increase in rodent problems. It is not a risky proposition by any means.
From my purely selfish personal point of view, I dread the idea of having a 3rd container that I have to schlepp from my back yard, to the front, down a flight of stairs, and then down to the next street corner , and back up again.
… but that’s just me
@Mike- Thank you for your kind words.
As far as I know, we are not planning to do a rodent study as part of this pilot. There have been some thoughtful comments from Lauren, MMQC, Newton Newbie &David M. as to the reasons why such a study should not be necessary. Many communities have food waste/organics diversion programs already in place and they do not result in “rat-tastrophe” (what a great word)! However, I will raise your concerns with the SWC on Thursday and check with Health & Human Services to see if they have any concerns on the public health side. Thanks for raising the issue.
I found it surprising that the survey didn’t seem to be interested in knowing if I compost now (I do) because that influences my response.
Sure I’d be happy to have a place to dispose of my meat/fish dairy etc. waste but you can’t have my other food scraps (except when my compost bin in buried under three feet of snow) because I want them for my bin.
@Lauren: I’d be interested in knowing how to speed up the heating. Please share.
@Greg, we know that a number of Newton households do already compost. My understanding is that when this survey was put together, the intention was to gather the quickest and seemingly most essential information to keep it short. This will definitely be one of the questions that will be asked of the participants for the pilot on the pre and post surveys. And we can certainly ask it in other surveys in the future.
Throwing food waste into landfills is foolish.
There is a terrific documentary out called, “Wasted! The story of food waste.” Watch the trailer at https://www.wastedfilm.com/videos/
It is produced by Anthony Bourdain and one of the stars is Newtonite Doug Rauch, (google him) who, after retiring as President of Trader Joe’s, established “Daily Table” in Dorchester and soon to open in Roxbury. Doug has created a model to make delicious, wholesome and affordable food available to all. Much of it is excess food from retailers (40% of food grown is wasted). Much of that wasted food would otherwise be put into landfills, take .
After viewing the movie I’m a believer that curbside collection of food waste in urban/suburban environments makes more than sense, it’s the future.
And the past…
Remember the days when homes in Newton had a buried can for food waste and on trash day a municipal worker walked through the back yards collecting it. Does anyone know how they handled the waste? Was it mulched?
I challenge anyone to watch the movie and then still be against curbside collection of food waste!
a couple fact checks here, 1) Newton’s trash doesn’t go to a landfill but rather an incinerator and 2) bootstrap compost won’t take animal or dairy products but the do take other things like napkins and paper towels.
Also, Newton’s current waste hauler offers composting too but I’m unsure of the details. Often the larger commercial operations will gasify the wastes and burn it for some residual energy, but frankly I’m not sure if that’s really any better than just sending it to the incinerator.
what Bootstrap Compost will take:
>Except for meat, dairy, plastic or rubber, almost anything goes! So feel free to include fruits & veggies; eggshells; bread, grains & pasta; coffee grounds, filters, tea-bags, & biodegradable cafe items; nuts & spices; napkins, paper towels, & compostable cutlery; laundry lint; and small yard clippings & flowers. If you’re unsure, just ask.
and yes, starting program to let people buy discount composters to DIY would be great–no need to truck this stuff all around the state!
Terry, I believe we have one of those in-ground “Cans” in our yard. Makes me nostalgic for my childhood home, where we also had one and I never knew even then what it was for
Terry, I remember being told that the food waste collected from the “buried can” was fed to pigs at a nearby farm. Now most food waste is either collected and composted (Needham) or sent to an anaerobic digester.
Hmmmm, @DavidM, if Bootstrap isn’t accepting meat, fish & poultry for a curbside pickup program, then they seem to be a curious choice, and I wonder why a vendor who does accept these items wasn’t selected to run the pilot. I know that both the compost pilot programs in Cambridge and Natick include meat, fish & poultry. From my perspective, I believe inclusion of these items may be key to the program’s success.
@Greg, we’ve found the key to keeping backyard compost piles warm all winter long is maintaining the proper 3:1 balance of carbon:nitrogen ingredients. For the winter we’ve found wood shavings (non-pressured treated) to be a perfect source of carbon (brown material). If you don’t have easy access to these, you can also use pet bedding that’s made from wood shavings.
From what I understand there are two common methods of composting organic waste 1) open pile and 2) digester. Bootstrap takes it to a place that uses the open pile method so they don’t want the animal waste anymore than you’d want to leave it in your open backyard. They might be able to strike a deal to take Newton’s compost to a digester though if that’s a deal breaker.
RE: composting DIY, I have more shredded leaves (carbon) than anything in my pile so I throw in a handful of starter fertilizer to add nitrogen in fall, make sure it gets enough water and the pile is really cooking. I was actually concerned it might spontaneously combust it was so hot. If your pile is frozen solid now, it’s hard to get it going when it’s so cold.
David M, as long as compost piles are large enough, have the correct “recipe,” and are properly maintained, they get hot enough to quickly break down organic matter. In fact, I’ve visited some commercial composting sites where livestock–entire cows and horses–are composted in windrows, and breakdown in just several weeks. (You just have to puncture their stomachs first with rebar so they don’t explode as they decompose…) The compost piles we keep in our backyards may not get hot enough to break down the pathogens in meat, fish and poultry, but these items are frequently composted aerobically at commercial composting facilities.