The seven candidates for mayor will appear together one last time before the Sept. 12 preliminary on Thursday Sept. 7 at 7 p.m. for a forum on transportation and housing.
The event is sponsored by Engine 6, Bike Newton and Green Newton, takes and place at the War Memorial at City Hall on Thurs., Sept. 7, at 7 p.m. NewTV’s Jenn Adams will be the moderator.
Please ask all seven of our candidates:
1) As Mayor, will you bring at least one Summer Food Service Program site to Newton next summer (2018)?
2) As Mayor, what would you do about the fact that a tax-exempt Newton institution effectively pays the City of Waltham to feed its students who go hungry during the summer months at the expense of paying the City of Newton to do the same?
3) How many kids in Newton go hungry during the summer months? (I would
consider asking this question first so as to build the foundation for the two action oriented questions.)
Our more than 1,400 economically disadvantaged students deserve an honest answer to these questions on the record.
Tom,
How much should a family of 3 or 4 spend on groceries a month in order to not starve?
As immigrants, we could easily feed a family of 4 on $400 a month. Rice, beans, bulk chicken, cheap vegetables. No soda, seafood or expensive meats. This is not theoretical, this is how I was raised and many extended family members in MA are being raised today on $400-500 a month
I see a family of 4 can get get $649 a month in food stamps.
https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/how-much-could-i-receive
This is not a left or right discussion, many immigrant families we know today can do this on about $400-500 a month. Do the families you mention NOT get any food stamps, if so why not?
Tom,
I should also post ‘facts’ to backup the monthly grocery budget:
This is for 4 people: breakfast, lunch,dinner
20lb rice: $10 for the whole month
chicken at 2.5 a lb: 1 chicken a day. Each chicken is 4lb = (4 lb * $2.5) * 30 = $300
20lb pinto beans: $15 dollars
20lb carrot: $10-15
30 heads of cauliflower: $15
misc vegatables.. whatever is on sale: $40
20lb of bulk oatmeal: $35
1 gallon of milk: $5. 10 gallons a month: $50
10 loafs of bread: $25
10lb of cheese: $30
salt,oil,pepper: $30
total: $565 for bare essentials.. but enough to not go hungry
Please post a monthly grocery list which does not cover a family of 4 on foodstamps. A family of 3 will get $500 a month
Again, this is not a left/right discussion.. this is just a discussion on facts
@Butek. I think you just don’t see the full context of what Tom Davis was talking about in terms of what the full impact of lost summer meals is likely to be on a family just trying to stay afloat in Newton or any other community for that matter. I’m betting, too, that you had a rather stable family structure when you or your parents came to Newton, and probably some support and networking systems to begin moving upward. I know I did.
It would be fine if every lower income family could put together a $400.00 a month food budget like the one you have listed and follow through on it. I’m certain many already try do this, but this budget isn’t formulated in a vacuum. If you are a poor family, it takes just the slightest dislocation to throw everything off; a kid gets sick and you have to take time off from work to take care of the problem; the car you rely on to get to work breaks down and there’s no reliable public transportation to where you work; you get sick and the place you work offers no paid time off for sickness; a family member develops some kind of addiction and that blows the lid off everything. It goes on and on. Depression which can hit anyone, finds particularly fertile ground in this environment and that’s an integral part of the downward spiral for many lower income families.
Things that you and I can roll with are devastating for people at the lower end of the income scale. I’m grateful I have never experienced this type of stress and anxiety, but I know people that have and it’s gut wrenching to watch it unfold.
This is where the importance of Tom’s lost summer meal comes in. It’s just one added hassle on top of many others, but for the affected kid, it spells hunger for at least part of the day and this is totally unnecessary.
@Tom. I’m glad you have raised a problem that was not on my radar screen, but I hope you can be a bit gentler with Margaret Albright. She’s an independent thinker and her heart is totally on the side of kids in our schools.
bob
Definitely, the things you mentioned can throw many families off, all families from low to middle class.
But these things should be addressed separately from the food issue, do we provide a budget that is reasonable for a responsible family to follow? if yes, lets focus on those things you mentioned
– paid time off for sick days (you or child)
– much improved public transportation from Newton to Boston. And not just from the expensive zip codes. A better public transportation can be life changing for poor folks, car expenses can add up
– social socials for depression and stress. Especially for the families with no good family structure
– programs to teach families how to cook and shop efficiently and healthly.
Just providing free food ontop of food stamps may not be the best use of resources for ‘long term’ stability. Especially if the budget we provide can sufficiently cover responsible families
We want families to eventually move up the economic ladder by giving them the tools to do so
@Bugek: Sure. Let’s debate the facts.
According to the United States Department of Agriculture, as of July 2017, the lowest reasonable cost to feed a family of 4 (if assuming 2 adult parents and 2 teenage children) is $686.70 per month. More likely, however, the monthly cost ranges from $892.30 to $1,108.60 for this family of 4. (Source: https://www.cnpp.usda.gov/sites/default/files/CostofFoodJul2017.pdf.)
If a family of 4 qualifies for SNAP (which is far from a given), the maximum monthly allotment they can possibly get is $649. In other words, if this family 1) qualifies for SNAP and 2) is allotted the maximum amount, this family of 4 will need spend an additional $37.70 to $459.60 per month to cover basic food expenses. (Consider, furthermore, the economic reality when this family of 4 misses qualifying for SNAP by $1.)
My argument and what I’m advocating for is simple: Make sure that our students who come from families that cannot provide for themselves are guaranteed consistent and nutritious meals through the summer months. This is necessary because what happens is that during the school year, more than 1,000 of our students receive daily free or reduced-cost lunches; but as soon as that last bell rings for summer break, these kids are on their own. Providing for these kids is also necessary because food insecurity leads to many long-term problems such as health issues and reduced learning capacity.
Given that the median household income is more than $104,000 in Newton, most families can provide consistent and nutritious food for themselves. However, in Newton, there are thousands who cannot.
The solution to this specific problem is simple: Effectively advocate for and bring a Summer Food Service site to Newton. Ideally bring a few, and strategically place them where they will make the biggest impact.
The need is real, but because of inaction, the economically disadvantaged students that our local government has a fiduciary obligation to care for are harmed. This should be inexcusable to us all.
tom,
You did not provide facts, just statistics. Please provide a grocery list and prices (and not from whole foods!)
We can talk about median this, average that, min, max and come up with different conclusions on the same set of data. Provide a MONTHLY grocery list, it is what it is (you can roll in bulk purchases of rice, beans and cheese with a monthly budget)
No responsible family is going to pay extra for cut and cleaned fruits and vegetables, box cereals instead of bulk oatmeal. Steak instead of chicken or stew beef. Preferring sale items etc etc. Many middle upper class immigrant families shop exactly this way, because paying extra is a waste…
@Bugek: Since when do you get to decide what a “responsible family” is? Do you personally understand the circumstances of the families of each of the more than 1,000 NPS students who need the help I’m advocating for?
I grew up in Newton on food stamps and welfare. I also grew up in public housing. Much of the time, we didn’t have enough food, so I went to bed hungry. “Responsibility” had nothing to do with my circumstances, but rather the fact that we did not have enough money to provide for my needs at certain times. Your instance on providing a monthly grocery receipt has nothing to do with the big picture. Some families can get by on less, whereas other families cannot.
What we know, as a matter of fact, is that there are kids in need in Newton. The government provides free or reduced-price lunch to more than 1,000 NPS students during the school year for a reason. Regardless of your belief in “responsibility,” I hope that you agree we should find a way to continue providing that service during the summer months. That’s all there is to it. It really is that simple.
What Bob Burke said- he beautifully stated the complexities of the situation. Many families are 1-2 paychecks away from finding themselves in significant financial hardship.
tom,
I’m in total agreement that assistance must be provided, we only disagree in how much. Responsibility simply means not spending the entire grocery budget on soda, snacks and expensive meats. If that is considered unreasonable, then called me “old fashioned”
Should the resources be used elsewhere to help families move up the ladder. That’s the discussion, not whether ANY further resources should be spent at all.
I have list a monthly grocery budget which will ensure no family of 4 will ever go hungry. Please provide yours.
If the discussion is:
“We provide enough money so a family of 4 can be fed and not go hungry.. but only if they purchase in bulk”
If the object is the “bulk” aspect then that’s a completely different conversation about “how far” assistance should go beyond ensuring a family have healthy food and not go hungry.
Again, please feel free to pick apart my grocery list. If I’m wrong, then I’m wrong. But I like to discuss in terms of facts.
@Brenda: Bob always makes great points. His latest is no exception. That being said, for intents and purposes of this specific issue, we need to acknowledge just how many NPS students come from families that are already facing financial hardship.
Financial hardship is often defined as “unable to meet minimum living expenses.” In Newton, we have nearly 1,200 students who are deemed to be “economically disadvantaged.” Economically disadvantaged status is calculated based on a student’s participation in one or more of the following state-administered programs: the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP); the Transitional Assistance for Families with Dependent Children (TAFDC); the Department of Children and Families’ (DCF) foster care program; and MassHealth (Medicaid).
This means that, in Newton, we have roughly 1,200 students who come from families that are already unable to meet minimum living standards. In other words, nearly 1,200 NPS students live with families that are already facing financial hardship.
In my opinion, a top priority of all of our elected officials should be ensuring that these students continue to have consistent and nutritious meals throughout the summer. Ending our support for these economically disadvantaged students during the summer months is inexcusable.
@Bugek: In addition to being an attorney, I’m a coach of runners and triathletes. I’ve coached dozens of state champions, state record holders, All-Americans, and professional athletes. I’m also a competitive runner who was a state champion at Newton North. My point in bringing this up is that I’m also highly educated in regard to nutrition. You can disagree with me all you want, but from a nutritional perspective, your enumerated grocery list is insufficient for many developing youth. Calorically, for someone to be able to productively and healthily function on what you’re suggesting, he or she would need to be engaged in very little physical activity. That would mean that he or she would need to hold back on the playground, at the park, or in sports. In Newton, no kid should ever be put into this position.
@Tom – which institution is paying Waltham instead of Newton?
@bugek – your budget makes a lot of assumptions, including that members of the family can eat bread and milk. I know many families, including mine, where celiac or lactose intolerance or food allergies make that impossible. Your budget assumes that the family has transportation to get to the cheapest markets, which may not be accessible without a car. It assumes that none of the children are ravenous teens who need extra calories. It assumes that food prices aren’t going to spike due to circumstances outside of anyone’s control (such as Harvey). And it assumes that families in need all qualify for SNAP, which is not the case. Are you really that concerned about a few dollars/month and not about the fact that kids are going hungry?
tom: Again, sow me your grocery list and we can see how far the number are off. Looks like I’m asking too much from you
Meredith: Do we agree that its impossible to cover 100% of all families, I would say the government has a responsibility to provide the coverage for 95%. I would guess my list would cover such a percentage. Regarding the dietary restrictions, you could put together a monthly grocery list and see how far ‘off’ a family this family would be. I have no idea how much more soy milk is than cows milk and lets say tofu instead of cheese. Maybe its alot, maybe its still within the SNAP budget. Until we see a grocery list, we dont know
Meredith,
Also note my posts are not about penny pinching, its about resource allocation. For example, would it take better sense to allocate new funds to public transportation.
A poor family could family could give up a car (save at least 300 a month), faster to get to work (more time with family) and everyone in Newton would benefit.
My issue is, “is SNAP sufficient to provide 95% of families so they don’t go hungry and heres an example grocery list”, if yes then lets focus on other services that benefit the 95% (and everyone else in Newton) .
The 2 example you guys stated
– althetes
– dietary restrictions
What % do you think these cases cover? I think 5-7% would be a good estimate. And even with the dietary restrictions, we don’t know how far off it is until you create a grocery list
A separate program can be setup for hardship for the other 2-3% when times get tough (hardship funds probably already exist?)
I wish all comment threads on the internet could be as reasonable and informative as this one. Kudos to all of you for keeping the conversation about the topic and not getting nasty.
@bugek – if a poor family gives up their car, they may not be able to reach the grocery stores with more affordable prices, which mostly aren’t on transit lines. Also, I don’t see how you can say giving up a car would make it faster to go to work – many have jobs that aren’t on the T, or where the only way to get there by T would take hours (for example, to go the 6 miles from my house to Brandeis would take 1.5 hours by bus), or where they work late shifts that end after the T stops running.
Also, in terms of total cost to society, making sure children have enough to eat is cheaper than the lifetime costs of the effects of childhood malnutrition.
I did not mention athletes – I mentioned growing teenagers, who are a sizeable proportion of children. I also mentioned families who make just too much to qualify for SNAP but still run out of money before the end of the month through no fault of their own. And food prices aren’t static – it is unlikely that the budget that worked for your family years ago is adequate today, and it is likely that food prices will increase over the coming year due to natural disasters that have damaged crops and raised oil prices.
Meredith,
My point was that if Newton used resources to improve public transportation then more people could give up cars. Those who would benefit the most would be poor folks. Instead of using limited resources to provide extra food, public transformation may provide better long term benefits.
I have presented a grocery list which I believe can feed a growing family including teenagers as mine was still 85 dollars under budget. And its todays prices not decades ago
You cannot make the claim it may not be enough without presenting a grocery list to show otherwise. Give an example to prove your point.
Again, there is likely hardship programs to cover these edge cases of food spikes. The Harvey example you give, I can assure you the government have set up a natural disasters hardship program or food banks. However, realistically not all food groups spike at the same time. If beef spikes, buy chicken, if corn spikes buy tofu etc etc. Different foods spike and drop all the time.
Finally, sure there will be 3 to 5% of families who cannot get by with this budget. It would not make resource allocation sense to create a program to cover every single person. Instead allocate enough to cover 95% of families (which unbeliever it does) and create separate program to cover the 5%(ie hardship programs
I think this thread has come off topic. Why don’t we stick to Tom’s issue and that is how do we help the kids from struggling families. Bugek, if you’re position is that no one needs help, thats fine, but no one has to come up with a grocery list.
I believe this city has a food pantry…I could be mistaken, maybe there could be some kind of public-private partnership between the city and the pantry in helping out the families that way…that wouldn’t affect city resources. People could doante food to the pantry and the kids and families would go to the pantry for more food, especially in the summer months. I don’t know, but we do need to come up with a viable solution for the struggling families.
Tom,
The reason no one needs to provide a grocery list is because there IS NO grocery list which cannot adequately feed a family a four for 95% of people and stay close to the SNAP limits.
I’m confident of this because this is how I’ve been shopping for family of 4 for several years. Avoid pre-cut meat (boneless, skinless etc), avoid branded cereal and stick with bulk items such as oatmeal. Cook food in batches, no precut/washed vegetables, no steak/lamb unless its on big sale.
I would love to be proven wrong if someone provides such a list.
There will be cases with athletes and dietry restrictions and hardship programs should be available to those, are they the majority of cases? I doubt it
I would much prefer any resources go towards
-improving public transportation which will disproportionally help the poor more than anyone else (no car expenses)
– education on financial planning
– cooking lessons and budgeting etc etc
We’ll have to disagree here and this discussion is not going any further.
Perhaps the next discussion is how Newton is going to help DACA children. Through no fault of their own, they do need some support, the welcoming ordinance only covers police interaction with ‘undocumented’ folks.
One quick way to help would for Newton residents to offer to adopt these children on paper. Newton could offer free legal help in this area. This would make them instant citizens within 2 years, no strings attached, no need for lobbying or second guessing.. it would simply be done.
@Tom: Thanks for helping circle the conversation back to the point. Hopefully our seven mayoral candidates will be asked what (if anything) they would do to ensure that our nearly 1,200 economically disadvantaged students continue to get consistent and nutritious food during the summer months.
Under the leadership of Mayor Warren, to the best of my knowledge, we have done nothing to solve this problem. That is despite the fact that childhood poverty in Newton has increased more than 77% since he became Mayor. That is despite the fact that research shows $1 of SNAP benefits actually generates $1.84 of economic activity in a community. And that is despite the fact that we know only an estimated 28% of food insecure households nationally used food pantries. (I’d bet the numbers are lower in Newton ever since the Mayor moved the food pantry into City Hall, which likely decreased the probability of those in need getting food from it.)
Newton has tremendous wealth. We have far more wealthy residents than poor residents. In fact, we have a greater number of residents who earn more than $1,000,000 per year (1,284) than we do children who face food security on a daily basis because they are distinguishably poor (1,153). If we can’t figure out a way to ensure that our poor students have consistent and nutritious food during the summer months, then what are we doing?
If leaders in Waltham can find a way to provide their poor kids more than 14,000 free (and quite frankly, excellent) lunches during the months of July and August, why can’t we?
@Tom,
I fact checked your comment about the food pantry at City Hall as it seemed unusual that the increased visibility would lead to decreased use. According to the Newton Food Pantry’s June 2017 newsletter, “In 2016 alone, the number of adults and children receiving food from our pantry increased by 10%.”
I’m not arguing any of your other points. This one just struck me as odd.
http://www.newtonfoodpantry.org/newsletter/2017/06/01/june-newsletter/
@Randy: For the first seven months of 2016, the food pantry was not located in City Hall. My concern with placing a food pantry in the basement of City Hall is that it would dissuade those in need from showing up to get help.
Do you have any updated numbers? The food pantry has now been located at City Hall for more than a full year, so we should be better able to gauge how successfully we’re connecting services with those in need. I’d also want to see the breakdown of who is visiting the food pantry as my specific concern throughout this discussion is NPS students.
Sorry Tom. That was the latest info they had posted, and I didn’t see a breakdown showing NPS students. I just thought it was odd that being at a building that is more forward facing, and much more accessible, would result in a reduction in use. I’m sure the pantry would give you the latest usage numbers if you request them.
Tom – If this is true (which I believe it is) “Newton has tremendous wealth. We have far more wealthy residents than poor residents. In fact, we have a greater number of residents who earn more than $1,000,000 per year (1,284) than we do children who face food security on a daily basis because they are distinguishably poor (1,153).”
Why should we expect the state to give us funds to help? “@Margaret or any other elected official: Can you confirm that the School Committee or its agent applied to the Summer Food Service Program for summer 2017?”
Wouldn’t it make more sense for Newton to find a solution by itself and let the State Summer Food Service Program help cities like Fall River, Lowell, or Chelsea that lack tremendous wealth?
Appreciate the effort, Randy. And thanks for forwarding me to the Food Pantry newsletter, which is well put together.
Something in newsletter caught my eye, specifically where it reads “The Boston Globe reported in a 2/18/17 article that, “more and more, people are living without a safety net,” and “the number of low-income children in many affluent communities is rising at a much faster rate than it is statewide.” The Newton Food Pantry has been experiencing this rapid growth in need first hand.”
This is relevant to my point about leadership not doing enough to help NPS kids in need during the summer months. If Newton leadership is aware that the city is experiencing rapid growth in the number of low-income Newton residents who are living without a safety net, shouldn’t we hold them accountable? Or at least ask tough questions with the expectation of honest answers?
@Lucia: The funds come from the federal government. Regardless, I absolutely agree that Newton leadership should 1) apply for any and all federal and state funding that we are eligible for (and yes, we are eligible for the Summer Food Service Program) plus 2) build its own network. The question is still on the table whether city leadership has attempted to do anything to solve this problem as no one will answer it.
I’d finally add that given a tax-exempt institution in Newton (Newton-Wellesley Hospital) has helped subsidize addressing this specific problem in Waltham, I’m sure that we could solve this problem ourselves. In my mind the question becomes: why haven’t we?
@Bugek
Please prove that your monthly list is sufficient for a family of four.
Paul,
I provided my list, it included whole 1 4lb chicken ‘every day’, rice, beans, vegetables and another $85 to spend per month.
1 bowl of oatmeal each morning,
2-3 glasses of milk a day
lunch:
2 sandwiches with cheese Can use the $85 surplus for deli meat or you can make sliced beef yourself
dinner: (if not chicken, then beef stew or pork. Buy fish when on sale)
rice, beans, vegatable
1 chicken breast per child
1 thigh + leg per adult
soup can be made from the main carcass with potatoes and celery, carrots and beans
Please provide your list.
bugek, you misinterpret the way SNAP benefits are calculated. That family of 4 probably gets no more than $275/month.
Marti Bowen
I just got the number from the chart:
http://www.masslegalhelp.org/income-benefits/no-children-fs-chart
which shows 4 people at $649. Under what scenario does it go down to $275.
@Bugek: From both a caloric and basic nutrition standpoint, your suggested nutrition schedule is insufficient for the vast majority of developing youth, and it’s grossly insufficient for virtually any youth who does any type of extracurricular activity. Hence the importance of us proving our kids in need with consistent and nutritious meals during the summer months.
Tom,
but yet you wont provide a grocery list would does provide the nutrition you outline. Anyway, this discussion is not going anywhere.. next issue 🙂
bugek, the chart lists maximum benefits allowed. There are several computations that go into determining the actual amount. I’m posting a new thread on this subject tomorrow am.
Agree about the lack of nutrition in the grocery list.
I thought this thread was going to be about the mayoral candidates. If there is a need to discuss how low-income students and families survive and thrive (and I believe there is), then maybe Tom Davis can get one of the V14 moderators to set it up.
Jane, just above your comment I said I was starting a thread tomorrow on the subject.
Thanks, Marti. I missed your comment. I hope that the thread will be a robust discussion of the needs of low-income families in the community and will not be dominated by a back and forth conversation between a small number of posters and will include efforts on the part of the city and individuals that we can build upon.