Gas powered leaf blowers will be banned in Newton from Memorial Day to Labor Day. One electric or battery powered blower will be allowed per lot during the summer. After many amendments and hours of debate the final vote was 20-4.
Newton City Council bans gas powered leaf blowers in summer
by Greg Reibman | Jan 18, 2017 | Newton | 109 comments
The most important thing is that the Golf Courses, Colleges and City DID NOT get an exemption. SO they can use the leaf blower year round but even the Golf Courses and College and CITY can only use ONE Electric Leaf Blower per their entire property in the summer . Unfortunately Councilor Leary was trying to pass an exemption for them and to give the rest of the city a ban. Too Bad she could not understand the HYPOCRISY of her stand. I guess she felt that even though Colleges DONT PAY TAXES to the City and Golf Course pay Minimal taxes they were more important than the taxpayers in this City who either use Landscaping Services or do their own work.
Respect and thanks to all 24 members of the City Council and particularly to the members of Programs & Services and Finance for the staggering number of hours they devoted to this process over the past two years.
Noise and pollutants from leaf blowers in our residential neighborhoods is a real problem. But so are the challenges property owners would face by an outright year-long ban, which was the original proposal.
Though probably no one loves it, last night’s (this morning’?) compromise represents a viable middle ground.
Unlike Joanne, I admire and appreciate Councilor Leary’s efforts to understand the specific challenges our golf courses and colleges face. Joanne, there is no hypocrisy in genuinely trying to understand and accommodate the needs of others while simultaneously advocating for your own goals. As with the bag ban (where Leary supported an exemption for our smallest businesses), I found Leary approach here entirely commendable. These are the exact qualities of lawmakers we need at the state and national level, we are lucky to have her on the council.
I also wanted to give a shout out Councilor Danberg for expressing compassion last night for the minimum wage workers who would be required to use hand tools during the hottest months/longest work days of the year. In spite of the liberal leanings of many of our councilors on other political matters, the ramifications of a ban on some of our most vulnerable workers was rarely acknowledged.
I look forward to using my very gas power lawn mower as a stand in for a blower. Perhaps I’ll purchase a second to run in parallel. Finding the sound of these engines soothing, I may even just turn them on and place them on my patio as I enjoy a cool ice tea and some fascinating reading. It should be a good summer.
once again, make work for the city council. Has anyone been able to find the Hoarders task force on the city website, perhaps disbanded?
This is a significant step forward in the quality of life in Newton. Thank you to Karen Bray and the City Councilors for approving a reasonable compromise to improve Newton’s air quality and reduce noise pollution.
I’m pretty happy with this- not a fan of excessive leaf blower use (and misuse) at all. Interesting that the exemptions did not go through, not sure I expected that. It will be interesting to see how everyone (including landscapers) feels about this after going through a season.
My only real concern remains the ability and willingness to enforce the 65dB limit. I was awakened on a holiday morning this fall by city-hired leafblowers across the street that were registering 80+dB (according to my app, which I’m sure has a margin of error) INSIDE (sorry for all-caps, I know that’s rude) my house.
Good luck with enforcement: The Council just created hundreds of scofflaws.
Greg, the workers are also the most vulnerable of all (due to proximity) to the toxic air pollution and the noise pollution.
@Nathan: No argument here. My only point is that they were rarely acknowledged and I found Councilor Danberg’s comments worth noting.
@Joanne: Have a great day!
Doug – Alison Leary has lied about the City using the appropriate machines – she is been shown photos of the City Vendor at Elementary Schools Using the 77DB redmax leaf blower and continued to state that the city was in compliance. I guess the health issues must be non existent if the city is using those blowers at the elementary schools. Even you have seen them – if they City cannot do the job with the crap blower do you think everyone else can?? And guaranteed the city vendors will continue to use the 77DB as they have done all along.
Nathan – Sorry – Alison and Karen Bray of Newton Safe and Sound LOST last night – they did not get their SUMMER BAN and therefore you can decide if those Electric Blowers are less noisy and whiny than the gas powered ones.
Greg – We both know why she advocated for the Golf Courses and Colleges and it has nothing to do with compromise . Unfortunately she should have focused on her full summer ban with NO exemptions.
I’m very glad about this. I don’t quite understand why people use leaf blowers in the summer in the first place. What exactly is the use when there are no leaves to collect?
A step in the right direction. Glad this particular fight is over.
I am interested in knowing if the city uses leaf blowers that exceed the legal decibel limit? If true, that needs to change.
Greg – Great Day to you too – I am sure though the Attorney who represents the Golf Courses and College is NOT having a good day – He can Thank Councilor Leary for that!
Who were the 4 Councilors who voted against? Not that it’s a game changer with me, but I’m always interested in what the losing side of a legislative vote was arguing.
@ Doug,
What App did you use? the Noise Down Pro ? Does anyone know of an App that works well on an iPhone?
I would love to measure the noise made by any leaf blowers!
As one who occasionally uses a leaf blower in the summer to clear debris from my patio (I use it for a total of about 5 minutes all summer), I am thrilled with this outcome. I would have expected an exception for not-for-profit organizations and the year-long leaf blowing from Newton Cemetery would live on.
For those of us who abut Newton Cemetery, we’ll continue to suffer through the year-long and almost constant use of power equipment but at least we’ll have a respite from the synchronized buzzing of multiple leaf blowers blowing in harmony during the summer months. Thank you, Councilors!
@Isabelle, I used Sound Meter on Android- no idea if it’s available on iOS, or how accurate it is (as opposed to using my lyin’ ears)
My opinion… The City Council got this exactly right!
Add it to the list to be ignored and rarely enforced:
no people/dogs swimming at Crystal Lake public parks
no flying drones in the parks
no plastic bags
no overnight street parking in winter
and now no leaf blowers in summer
did I miss any?
THANK YOU councillors for doing the right thing.
@Terry, the Council did not create hundreds of scofflaws last night. They have existed since 2008 when the noise ordinance was amended. We just made the current law easier to enforce by requiring a manufacturer’s label indicating the machine meets the 65-decibel limit.
@Greg, thank you for your comments. I think we struck a sensible balance between reasonable efficiency with a tolerable level of noise.
Now we need to follow up with the outreach, education and enforcement of the 65 dBA blowers as this will be the key to quality of life improvements for Newton residents.
@Joanne -I go against my better judgement even responding to your bitter and irrational comments. But being called a liar and insinuating that I took bribes from the golf courses is despicable even for you.
For the record, I received a written commitment from the Commissioner of Parks & Recreation earlier this month that his department will comply with the 65 dBA limit. He also testified to this in March 2016 in the Programs & Services Committee. It is now written into the contracts as well and he expects all contractors will be in compliance for the spring.
Enforcement and compliance is a process and change does not happen overnight but I will work with Parks & Recreation to improve compliance.
@David,
You can fly drones in the parks with a permit.
Plastic bags are gone from all large retailers. You may still be seeing them in retailers under 3,500 sq ft. where we allowed an exemption.
The police regularly ticket for overnight parking during the winter parking ban. If you are having a problem with it on your street please call the police business line and report it.
Crystal Lake is a problem, I agree, and there is little consensus on how to solve the problem.
Leaf blowers will be a priority for education, outreach and enforcement.
Not sure where you live that no overnight street parking in winter isn’t enforced. It’s enforced readily on my block, even when there’s 0% chance of precipitation. Easy $25 for the City made off people who don’t have property with long enough driveways. To quote Emily Norton, it’s essentially a poor tax.
What kind of fine are these many scofflaws facing for using a leave blower and who enforces this nonsense of leaf blowers and drones? Is it the same unlucky person that inspects dogs to see if they pay the fixed or intact licensing fee?
Fortunately for me my leaf blower converts to a vacuum.
@ Alison – Sorry I know you must be so upset to have lost the summer leaf blower ban. And I am sure your Newton Safe and Sound group must be so extremely disappointed too. We shall see if the whining screech of the Electric blower which will have to be used for a longer time to get the job done will have been worth it.
I can see many landscapes investing in portable generators to power there electric leaf blowers. So you will still have multiple sources of noise for a longer periods of time. If not, as indicated in other entries in this thread, lawnmowers are going to be used for cleaning as well as cutting for longer periods of time. Well done Newton elite!
Once again our system of government worked as it was supposed too. Opposing sides of an argument came together and worked out a compromise, which is the essence of good government and what makes so many things possible. The city was able to make progress on an issue and the landscape company owners were able to retain the use of the leaf blowers. Both sides left the table having given a little and having gotten a little.
Incremental steps toward change are how we build a lasting solution, one that can be measured and one that can be sustained. It is a model that has been employed in business for many years and has proven to be successful, not only in business but other fields, like science, medicine, and yes politics.
No one side won or lost and both side should continue to work together for more progress. If you need to have a winner or a loser then you can say it was a win for Democracy.
What Peter said. Not what Joanne said.
Alison, I’m glad you addressed the “liar” comment. I felt that was a bit much and to the extent I know you hard to fathom.
While I did not support allowing one electric or battery powered leafblower per lot in summer, supporters of the ordinance scored a profound victory against opponents who wanted to raise the current maximum noise level from 65db to an excruciating 77db, with no limit on the number of “tornadoes in a can” per lot. Having made the above concession on the summer ban, there really was no need for an exemption for the city, institutions, golf courses and other owners of large properties, which I firmly believe will make for a quieter and more peaceful summer in Newton than we have had in many years.
Moreover, having adopted a requirement that leafblowers must have a manufacturer’s label that shows they are rated at 65db will greatly improve enforcement. At present, the only way to measure compliance is with a noise meter, which makes enforcement difficult at best if not impossible.
Although I certainly had hoped for more, the ordinance that finally passed by an overwhelming 20-4 margin nevertheless exceeded my expectations.
David hit the nail on the head. We keep passing more and more regulations. Instead of opting for simplicity, we have complicated special exemptions special situations and for special people. Enforcement almost never happens. Sure, we can call the city or the police and complain about non-enforcement. Maybe selective enforcement will occur. Maybe it won’t. Is this the way we want to run our the city?
Here’s the Wicked Local Newton story about Tuesday might/Weds morning’s meeting. And to answer Bob’s question:
I cannot begin to comprehend where TH-M, colleagues of his who support his ideas, like as Councilor Gentile put it “tree-hugger” and NS&S et al think it’s more important to make a “conference call” in your home than it is to take away a vital piece of equipment that has been made to be used as an efficient and quick way to automate what would otherwise be very intensive labor. Perhaps they came up with this notion because they have been too busy on the phone forming their own allegiances I cannot be certain… but all I’m hearing with that is that the people who work from inside their homes are more important than those who work outside of the homes, which sounds to me is discrimination and the good old double-standard .
I know what I can be certain of though, is that I am still waiting to hear the answer to how many people in this large city ACTULLY have called the Alderman and/or our law enforcement to report a noise ordinance violation due to the singling out of the the big bad backpack blowers that it is necessary to lay down your iron fists with ordinances to micromanage it and the people who use them, homeowners and landscapers alike.
Finally, on a personal note, I was very pleased to have heard at the meeting on Tuesday night that Councilor Lennon wants to revisit the 65db level vs. the 77 db level for spring and fall cleanups and rightfully so. Do any of you know that you can’t push 50-100 pounds of acorns into a barrel with a hairdryer-type blower?! It could take hours I’m certain if not even impossible to do. I am very, very much looking forward to that discussion and so are my allegiances…
Until then, ladies and gentlemen, get ready to start your engines..it’s about to get “lit”!
Newton a better place–where people can lounge in their house all week and the hired help are required by law to do their work quietly.
There was a glimmer of hope for reason to prevail when the predominantly poor, immigrant landscape laborers attended a hearing to say that without this machinery their job would be far more labor intensive. But no, the Council determined the manual labor is better for the workers’ health!
Literally thousands of taxpaying Newton residents work out of their homes, whether as professionals, consultants, day care providers, and others. One of their tools is the telephone, from which they conduct business with their clients, customers, patients, vendors, you name it. They have a right to make a living to support their families, and they do pay property and income taxes that support city services, among other things. What we on the City Council sought to do was balance the rights of these business owners and practitioners with landscaping businesses. You may not put any value on the right of another businessperson, doctor, lawyer or other professional to be able to use the telephone during regular business hours, but I do. And so do at least 19 of my colleagues. To say that getting every last grass clipping off a driveway is more important than the next door neighbor’s livelihood seems mean-spirited and selfish to me.
I have never experienced the inability to use the phone, watch TV ,or think because of the noise from a leaf blower. It is just hyperbole. No one lost their business or livelihood either, that is just absurd.
It seems many in favor of the ban keep changing what the root issue ia. Is it a noise nuisance or is it a health issue? If it is a health issue, then those voting in favor are at the least complete hypocrites. How you can suggest an electric blower is healthy but a gas one isn’t, just doesn’t align with the theory of why it is unsafe.
If it is a nuisance, then it is a noise issue, and the permissible decibels is what is of concern, not which machine produces the noise.
I can only think there is something else afoot here. And it seems to follow the same pattern, of trying to keep up with the Jones’s; except now it is keeping up with the “progessives”. Each of these towns seeking to be one step ahead of the other progressives in showing how progressive we are, as measured by an ordinance or proclamation on any given hot button issue of the day.
It’s too bad we make ourselves feel good on the backs, and sweat of the blue collar worker- but then again, nothing new with that.
Be careful Neal, the Council demands QUIET! lol. But you are spot on–the Council is its own biggest admirer. Most of the City is totally unaware this is even happening and could care less what type of leaf blowers people use. I think the Mayor was actually hoping it wouldn’t happen until he is gone because it’s going to haunt him to have to answer questions about such a frivolous requirement when he runs for higher office.
I also work from home at least once a week and I’m on the phone so much I use a headset. I’ve never had an issue with my neighbors’ landscapers being so loud I couldn’t work and I have just a 10 ft setback to the boarder.
I’d much rather have the crews show up and run four machines at once and be gone in 15 min, which is what usually happens unless it is fall. If you’re telling me that landscapers in your area are running leaf blowers for hours a week during the summer then I’d say they need MORE POWERFUL leaf blowers and not weaker, electric models.
Neal, I have. I tutor grad students in my home. When leafblowers are running, we can’t hear each other. No hyperbole involved. Trying to schedule classes around the noise in the fall is practically impossible – and will continue to be because gas leaf blowers aren’t banned in the fall, winter and spring.
@TH-M you are sorely mistaken. You fail to understand still, that no one is taking the rights away of being able to use your phone at home for whatever you see fit, but you are trying to remove the rights of a business owner (landscaper) to do their job effectively. Your comment to my post of being “mean spirited” seems to fit exactly your style of how you behave with your rehtoric comments both on and off the Councilor platform when you don’t get your way.
@Marti: Really? Please explain, how many hours in a day, and how many days in the week are people running leaf blowers so near to your house that with the windows closed, you are unable to carry on a conversation. I mean really, it stretches the imagination beyond the limits of credibility.
Neal, evidently the tiny limits of your imagination won’t allow you to see another’s perspective. Questioning my credibility defines more about you than it does me. I have no responsibility to answer to you anymore than you have to me, but the answer is, it depends on the occasion. Why on earth would you think your word means more than mine?
Ann, Neal, David et al, no one is taking away anyone else’s rights. What’s been done is finding a solution that’s more fair to all residents. From what I’m reading it seems you believe it’s ok for landscapers to malign and disrupt those of us who work inside just because you work outside. You seem to believe that we don’t have the same rights as you to gainful employment just because. Like it or not we do. So this new solution is a compromise requiring us inside workers to put up with the use of noisy, polluting gas powered blowers during 9 months of the year while giving us a little more peace and quiet in the summer.
The new ordinance only restricts the use of gas powered blowers during the summer when the heavy equipment isn’t as necessary.
Landscapers are free to use their gas powered leafblowers when leaves are most prevalent, fall, winter and spring and their electric ones during the summer. Not much of a concession really.
I agree with David above, I’m sure the vast majority have no idea this just happened and really could have cared less… I also frequently work from home and participate in many conference calls. When the landscapers come around I shut the windows if I’m on a call and when they’re gone in an hour or so I open them back up. I don’t take it personally and am slightly inconvenienced but no big deal.
Wondering what’s next on the “what can we ban next to be progressive” docket? My money is on barbecue grills. Many people think red meat is unhealthy and all that smoke has to be bad for the environment plus the fire hazard is a concern. Why should someone trying to eat healthy and watch their weight have to be subjected to the repulsive smell of burning meat? That was sarcasm…. I think…
Marti:
Not looking to fight, just looking for an answer to the question, how many hours in the day, on how many days of the week are the leaf blowers making so much noise , so that with the windows closed, you can not carry on a conversation. If you would be kind enough to answer, then my tiny imagination doesn’t need to stretch at all, you will have explained it so I can understand. I ask so I can understand your perspective, it just is beyond my experience to imagine that leaf blowers are all circling around your house for days on end.
Landscapers are maligning you??
@marti you have every right to gainful employment as you see fit, please don’t misconstrue what I say which seems to be the norm on this platform.
Like Councilor Ciccone said on Tuesday evening, there are times when we need to “adapt” to our surroundings which sounds to me you would have a hard time doing because of your profession.
With all due respect, I admire you for tutoring children out of your home and helping them register for classes but good luck to you and your students when the engine generators start up this summer , spring and fall because we are now forced to use less powerful machines for a lot longer times.
May I kindly suggest the library as a quieter place to study and register for classes?
Neal, I answered your question – it depends on the circumstances. I guess that wasn’t suffiecint. Obviously I haven’t kept track of the things you ask and don’t intend to just to prove something to you. You expect me to take your word for the things you say but want facts and figures from me before you choose to believe me. No. I will say the last time was this morning.
Just because something is “beyond your experience to imagine” doesn’t make it less true.
Did Councilor Leary do her research?
I have many documented items that state otherwise
There are electric and battery operated blowers that are much more louder then 65 decibels. Most battery operated blowers last under 20 minutes. How do you expect to get a full day in of work? The city and sub contractors will not be able to use these methods. Plus, many vendors do not put dB(A) stickers on their machines. So, a 40 dB(A) gas blower with no sticker can’t be used but the online specs say 40. This law is so unfair for the majority. You should of just limited the amount of gas blowers per property per season. You could of limit the amount of time per property. I say it is better to be disturbed for 5 min instead of 20 min with a electric.
Should we get rid of Xmas trees? Cutting down trees hurts the environment!
Did anyone know the facts about Brookline and the number of trees that were cut down since 2012. Since 2012 many Brookline residents have had their trees removed to eliminate additional costs.
The only reason I know this is because I am one of the largest tree companies! Newton will have a lot of less trees which will reduce the sound absorption and hurt the environment since only a few % of the city resident who choose to work from home with a little noise in the background. I wonder how the people in NYC do it???? UNBELIEVABLE
Well, this isn’t the result I was hoping for, but I think it is a good start if nothing else. I would have preferred a complete ban during the summer, but the reduce in engine size and going electric during the summer are good steps forward. If it is a compromise I think it is more weighted in favor of the landscapers among us. So be it. We will all see the results as spring/summer/fall go forward. If noise levels go down, enforcement goes up, and the new regulatory regime works, then that’s great. I would encourage folks to push enforcement in the spring and summer. The good landscapers will adjust quickly (as they have in other communities) and life will go on for everyone. The landscapers that don’t follow the rules should be fined pursuant to the statute (I’m assuming there is a fine of some sort, could someone clarify). I’m not trying to pick on the landscapers, but it is important for the industry as a whole that if this compromise to work (and you got the majority of what you wanted, even leaf blowers in the summer!) that you do your part. I know that I and my neighbors who work from home are now going to paying attention and we’ll give enforcement another try. I really do hope that the landscapers buy new machines and adjust to the new reality and fine that it works for their business model.
Leopold, they will take my BBQ from my cold, dead hands… 😉 But even in San Fran they haven’t taken BBQ grills.
I do agree with Marti that the noise is a huge issue for some homes. It really depends on how close you are to the blower and what blower is being used. One of my neighbors a few doors down uses a crew that is so loud that it used to wake my kids on the other side of the house facing the blower. Another crew next door I barely notice. Older homes with older windows are also far worse at noise reduction. So newer homes with better insulation muffles noise. Neal, this isn’t my issue enough to have done research to universize my opinion, but I can certainly confirm that the leafblowers lower my quality of life in Newton from a personal perspective. And having the blowing occur at 7 am on a weekend is frustrating. I’d like to think I’m reasonable and I understand the need for machines, but there is always a balancing of rights in most neighbor vs. neighbor issues. Try and see it from the perspective of those who are effected by this.
Joanne, I’ve read your comments throughout, and I will only say that you do your side no favors. Rubbing the nose of your opponents in the compromise isn’t going to engender good will. We are all your neighbors and customers (potentially). It was a tough compromise and I think your side got more than the benefit of the doubt regarding the new regulations. Gloating about the compromise, calling out Councilor Leary as a liar and as ethically compromised (falsely I might add), and generally being a poor representative of your cause isn’t the way to move this forward. You largely got your way. I’m happy that your business and family will be less effected by new regulation. I’m less happy about how this effect my quality of life. I humbly suggest you take the high road.
I for one will give the new regulations a proper chance, and report as necessary any regulatory scafflaws. I encourage others to do the same. Let’s reward those landscapers who follow the rules and let the city punish those that don’t. Hopefully this will work as intended and the compromise will take hold without future adjustments.
Cheers to all. I’ll go blow rhetoric someplace else for a while.
@marti this morning?! Really? The real landscapers I know are all wrapped up for the season and waiting to drop their plows for snow. Hopefully they won’t decide to an those either…Did you call the police to report it? I hear @TH-M loves to take those types of calls, he is collecting stacks of complaints because apparantly that’s the biggest issue here in Newton. He would like to lower the complaints down to zero or as close to zero as possible. Again, good luck.
A comment has been removed from this thread because it appears that the same person is commenting under two pseudonyms. Please stick to one name.
Why should everyone BUT the landscapers be expected to “adapt”? The overwhelming majority of the City Council voted for an ordinance that requires that residents must “adapt” during 9 months of the year, while the landscapers and homeowners who use gas powered leafblowers must “adapt” for the other three months in summer, when it is warmer and windows are more likely to be open and there is less need for them. And the contractors hired by the city have already agreed to use 65db leafblowers, just like in Brookline, so it does not appear to be a wholly unreasonable adaptation.
Houses in many parts of Newton, like Cambridge and Brookline which also have seasonal restrictions on leafblowers, are very close together and on lots under a quarter acre in size. The 65db maximum on ALL yard maintenance equipment, including mowers, weedcutters, and leaflblowers, has been in place for almost ten years. Limits on leafblower noise and use during the summer months is a reasonable accommodation which makes it easier to all live together and ensure everyone gets as much peace and quiet enjoyment out of their homes as they can.
My explanation of the vote: The purpose of my asking for a delay in the vote from the November City Council meeting to the 17th of January was to allow for all of the Councilors to catch up on the information. Absent the delay, the Council would have been working off of dated and focused information seeking a total summer ban, and the vote may have been a disaster for the residents of the city. Obviously, the delay was warranted, and we seem to have satisfied many of our concerns for the time being. Property owners did not lose their ownership right to do as they must to maintain their property, those in the trades still have some equipment options, and we will now have a better handle on the numbers of blowers operating in certain places at the same time.
Newton Safe and Sound was able, through a lot of work, to call attention to this situation and to offer suggestions for relief of the noise.
My reason for voting “no” to the ordinance is simple: It is acknowledged by everyone, to include, and not limited to, our City Staff, the Town of Brookline, Harvard University, the Town of Arlington, that more powerful equipment will be needed for certain periods of time. This is the item we will be addressing in the future. Councilor Gentile is correct in saying that as written, this ordinance will cost the residents in some way.
Thank you.
Ann:
Actually legally you are incorrect. Marti has a right to “quiet enjoyment” of her property. That has been well established by the courts. May I kindly suggest you make less noise so not to interfere with her property rights? Isn’t that the correlation remark to your request she use the library rather than enjoy her home? Couldn’t my neighbor who throws loud parties at 2 am tell me to go sleep at a hotel? Isn’t that the same logic? Again, let’s see what this new compromise brings. Perhaps it will allow Marti to use her home and for you and yours to blow stuff around. We’ll see.
As for it taking more time to blow, perhaps it will. But at least during the summer it will just be one electric engine per property. That’s a huge improvement.
Ann, I did not misconstrue your words – perhaps you didn’t mean what you said.
I don’t tutor children or help them register for classes, I tutor graduate students as I said above. These are adults who attend my classes with their study groups or come to my home to work on their thesises and dissertations. We require more room and privacy than the library offers and make more noise than the library allows, although occasionally we are required to make it work. I have had to adapt to my surroundings all of my life and continue to. Do you?
Yes, this morning. You are getting quite presumptious in your claims. You also fail to understand the new ordinance. I would not call to report leafblowers because there is no restriction for their use now or when the new ordinance is in place.
Go Fig!!
James Cote: If you reopen the compromise, you risk destroying it as well. Why don’t you let it play out for a few seasons?
I sincerely hope your fellow city councilors push for more restrictions if you reopen the compromise.
Can someone (city councilors perhaps) post the number to report violations so we all have it? I’d like to know which department to call and what the penalties for enforcement will be. Again, not being punitive, just want everyone to know their full rights and enforcement opportunities.
Thanks!!!
This remains tipped drastically. My preference from the start was that they just simply not start revving up at the uncivilized, ungodly, unfair hour of 7 AM. That was it. That’s all. Now the landscapers for the condo next to my house can continue to saddle up at 6:45 as they are wont to do. I’m also not seeing where this addresses that fact that they are often used in a cluster. While one device can individually be within the noise limit, I have to assume when two or three are used at once as is often the case, it would exceed the noise limit. Oh well. More time spent indoors with my Granddaughter I guess.
@TH-M my dad always says, the truth hurts. And he’s right!
We know about adapting, my family came here as immigrants . As you can imagine, they’ve lived the word “adapt” the hard way back in the 60’s but clearly, by reading yours and others posts here, it is evident that some of you more priveledged, affluent folk could never understand the sacrifices they made and struggle with that concept.
Thank you for letting me vent and hopefully you are at peace with yourselves when you lay your heads down at night to sleep.
Ann, while I certainly respect the sacrifices made by your parents (and my parents), and the struggles of an immigrant generation in a new land, I would respectfully state that you don’t know me personally, or anyone else on this board. I am neither privileged nor affluent, at least not in the way you probably think I am. Do you think consistently using your family’s immigrant status as a means of justifying a regulatory policy is a convincing argument? One has very little to do with the other.
This country has been a blessing for me and my family, as it seems like it has been for you and yours. It took a lot of hard work (and the GI bill) for my family to make it in America. I can respect your parents struggle (and mine), but I don’t disrespect them by using the political process to ask for common sense regulation. That’s our system. That’s the US. That’s Massachusetts. That’s Newton. Every level of government allows me to lobby, petition, entreaty, discuss, vote for, and donate to causes/politicians/issues that I care about.
As for being at peace with myself when I lay my head down at night, I certainly am regarding this issue. Other issues, maybe not. But I would have slept fine with a full ban. As tomorrow is going to show me in vivid detail, you don’t always win every battle in democratic system. You don’t always get what you want or what you think you deserve. Your smaller cause can be subsumed by a larger movement or a nationwide election or a grassroots movement to do away with a useful tool for your business. Sometimes that happens. What’s strange with your postings is that you largely won the day, but are complaining as if you lost.
I guess I don’t find arbitrary references to immigrant status of parents or guilt trips all that convincing as arguments for a policy. Perhaps others do. I’d rather stick to the issue at hand and leave the emotional appeals behind.
What Marti wrote is true for me as well – I do a lot of pro bono work from my home since I serve on multiple boards and committees and act as host regularly- and in my densely populated Newton Centre neighborhood, we can’t hear each other speak with the leaf blowers going. Admittedly, my windows are open – I prefer fresh air to the air conditioning, even in the summer – so it can get pretty loud. Personally, I am pleased with the compromise.
Can anyone explain the logic of using machines that are 200-400 CFM compared to the 700-950CFM? This means the “noise” will be there for 3-5 times longer. Some commercial grade battery and electric blowers are 65 decibels. I feel this will cause more unhappiness for the pro ban people. They should of let 1 gas blower per summer since the mowers are already making noise.
Ann, except for the Native Americans among us, everyone in Newton’s families came here as immigrants at some point. Maybe it was the previous generation, maybe it was 3 or 4 generations ago, but the bottom line is that we are a city and nation of immigrants. This has no bearing whatsoever on leafblowers.
Throughout the history of this country, immigrants have done the back breaking, difficult, and tedious work in order to make the lives of second, third, fourth generation families more comfortable and convenient. I haven’t followed this story because we’re rakers and live in a neighborhood of rakers. However, I do believe it’s important to keep in mind the health, safety, and economic well being of immigrant who work in various capacities in the city. They are us.
Other than that, I have no dog in this fight.
My comment about immigrants once again is being misconstrued. It was meant to support the word “adapt” in my post but clearly, you could not stay on topic without spewing at me with your legal verbiage and lengthy explanations of discontent of my words spoken and diminishing my stance. Your verbiage and bully-like behaviors do not intimidate me at all, anyone can talk the talk behind a computer and keyboard, and I can tell, it gives some of you here and the egos such a great charge of satisfaction to trounce on people like that, in fact it’s the norm on here when people don’t get their way.
Alas, I guess we’ll all need to learn to continue to *adapt* in this City….and as you can see, some of us are more inclined to do so, while for others, it may just be the biggest emotional and psychological challenge of their life.
Ready, set, go…
Yes, we will all continue to adapt to living in a community, because that’s life if you don’t live on a private island.
Ann, I know I shouldn’t keep responding to you since you neither read my comments correctly or want to carry on an intelligent conversation, but your comments are just so off base, it rattles my cage.
Your comments about immigrants, particularly your family, having to adapt more than others were not “misconstrued” nor were the replies off topic. They were taken in the context you provided.
You diminish your “stance” every time your comment misrepresents the truth, tells anyone who works from home to adapt in order for you to get your way, misunderstands both the old and new noise ordinances, drips with sarcasm to belittle others, or uses words like bully to describe the opinions of those of us who don’t agree with you. Perhaps you should read about what bullying means to have a better understanding of the word. Writing long comments or using legal verbiage, which I don’t see, to defend a position doesn’t fit the definition of bullying.
In fact, it’s you who is using “verbiage and bully-like” behavior in an attempt to “trounce” on the rights of others. Its you who “can talk the talk behind a computer and keyboard” in order to grow your “ego and give you a charge of satisfaction” – Otherwise why would you continue to do so? It’s a shame you can’t see the projection of your words onto everyone else.
Tricia pointed out that adapting is required when living in a community. And yes it’s obvious “some of us are more inclined to” adapt than others but it’s not the landscapers and their proponents, it’s you and those who agree with you who basically got what they wanted. No summer ban. The continued use of gas powered blowers during 9 months of the year, which include the times cleanups are most needed, and the use of an electric blower for the summer. We who work in our homes aren’t trivial, elite or lounging around, we work the same as you.
Belittling those who have faced trauma or have emotional or psychological challenges by suggesting that accommodating the new leafblower ordinance will be the challenge of Newtonites’ lives is despicable.
@ Ann: I agree, there are those who use words to try to intimidate; and constantly suggest others don’t understand, but somehow they always do. It always amazes me, that it is often more the person the an the issue that defines if a discussion will be reasonable or not.
As an example, I have disagreed with Mike Striar any number of times on blogs, and never has that led to any disharmony, or anything approaching the acrimony that others seem anxious to engage in.
It is curious, why; but in the end it is what it is. It often appears there are those that would be happy if the only people that spoke, were those in constant agreement with them.
Neal:
As I’ve said many times on this blog, it isn’t bullying to call somewhat out on his or her bull. I think most of the comments on this blog are meant to express truly felt opinions and to move the discourse further. I don’t need to agree with you or Ann, but I do expect the discourse to remain civil. Please go reread my posts, and point out where I was anything but civil. I too have lots have great conversations on this blog, and Mike and I disagree about lots of stuff, I disagree with Greg occasionally, with Jeff all the time. With all due respect to Ann, the difference in my mind is that those folks take the time to at least consider the discussions from the opposing viewpoint. When someone comments on this blog with more emotion/anger than facts, and belittles other opinions with sarcasm, I don’t think it is unreasonable that they get called out on such behavior. And I’ll note that responding to a legal argument from a poster (me I assume) with a protest that it diminishes her “stance” without responding to the argument isn’t a response, it is a complaint that folks are being mean, in this case for pointing out the truth in a calm and detailed manner. Just because that truth interferes with her particular worldview isn’t unfair or mean or bullying. I don’t want Ann to be in constant agreement with me Neil. And I don’t want to be in constant agreement with her, either. Which means we both get to continue to post our thoughts, no?
Here is a thought: One of the frustrating parts of this debate for me personally has been the use of the “Immigrants lives matter” signs at the various council meetings.I’m not debating the meaning (of course Immigrants lives matter) nor am I debating the co-opting of a slogan that was originally meant for a more serious and deadly cause. But there has been a consistent argument and discussion point from the landscaper side that this particular regulatory matter has been “anti-immigrant”.
So let me try and move this conversation forward in a different way. Ann/Joanne/Joe and others posting here that own or related to owners of landscaping companies, I agree with you, Immigrant lives do matter. So I’d appreciate knowing a little more about your employees. Do you give your employees health benefits? Any benefits? Are they W-2 employees? Or do you pay them in cash? Do you use spot labor from immigrants without papers?
I actually do leave my keyboard quite a bit, so over the past year I’ve struck up conversations with many of the workers in my neighborhood. And when I was much younger I used to work landscaping down south. I may have mentioned that. So I know how the game is played, at least how it was played 20 years ago. I’d like to hope times have changed. Because I agree that immigrant lives do matter. I’m just a little more concerned with the lives of the immigrant workers on the front line without health insurance or benefits, without overtime, often paid in cash. I appreciate the balance of running a business and giving benefits. It is something I struggle with myself in my own business. But in my limited experience, in landscaping the front line worker mowing your lawn gets treated quite poorly. None of my conversations with Newton landscaping crews have led me to think otherwise. And I ask this question rhetorically, does the front line employee using a leafblower get paid less if that leafblower is banned? Or is it just the landscaping owner who has less profits due to increased labor costs?
So let’s turn this conversation in a different direction. I’d be interesting in hearing Ann’s or Joanne’s take on any of the above. Has landscaping changed over the past 20 years the way it treats its employees?
@ Neal, thank you so much!
I guess they demand I back down from
This topic because look at all the reprimanding I’m being served by people who push their credentials around who have gone out of their way to make certain they put me in my place… – that’s what is despicable!
@fignewtonville: To be honest, I was not directing this specifically at you. To be honest, I have a hard time concentrating through your entire post. I was talking about bullying by intimidation; something completely different than not telling the truth, or bull, as you say. They are not related.
As I continue to read your post, you seem to think I am speaking of you. Why? Did I mention your pseudo-name?
Regarding the truth; all too often people mistake opinion or personal experience for truth. Often, perhaps usually, they are not the same.
I will say, it would be arrogant for any of us to assume the restriction of leaf blowers will not have a real negative impact on the lives of those who rely on it routinely. That does not mean it will, only that we don’t know, and it might. So, when someone says immigrant lives matter, I think it is at the least, insensitive and caviler of you, to suggest it is “the co-opting of a slogan that was originally meant for a more serious and deadly cause.” I am not so sure that this is just some minor inconvenience we are talking about for some who uses a leaf blower for their living. I think they view it as much more, which is probably why they invest in them in the first place.
Neil:
Ann was certainly mentioning me, since she was upset about the use of the legal argument. My points still stand regardless, I think.
As for the co-opting of the slogan, the original use of black lives matter, whether or not you disagree with the cause or the slogan, was regarding the events of the George Zimmerman/Treyvon Martin murder. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter
I don’t think it is insensitive or caviler to state that the original hashtag was addressing a more serious issue that our landscaping regulatory matter in front of us today. One is life and death, and involves debates regarding police vs. civilian rights, gun control, etc. The other involves…the “right” to use a leaf blower. I certainly acknowledge it is important to the owners of the landscaping companies, and that it is a useful tool. But are you really saying those issues are comparable? Really? I’m going to go out on a limb here and state that most folks aren’t going to agree with you on that.
Also, you didn’t address my original point. The immigrants using those leafblowers are often day to day workers without benefits, working long hours at a difficult job. But those hours will be the same, and the labor will be difficult, with or without leafblowers. You know who really gets hurt with leafblowers get banned? The person who owns the landscaping firm, because their profits go down. I’d argue that the life of the front line worker might actually improve, as leafblowers have some health effects associated with them, if used all day, especially if used with ear and breathing protection.
Still waiting on some information on how the frontline workers are treated. And for the record Neil, what I know thus far isn’t based on my personal experience alone. I’ve talked to the crews that work my neighborhood occasionally. Have you?
How many of us employ landscaping companies that treat their employees poorly?
Look this is getting way off topic. What if the signs said “landscapers livelihood matters” would that alleviate your concern, Ted? This is silly and I am sure it wasn’t meant to belittle any movement.
As far as frontliners not getting paid benefits, I agree with you in that they should. But, they took on a job that they knew they weren’t going to get benefits and they accepted those terms. (You do remember contracts 101?) Just like the landscapers took on clients from Newton with the knowledge that they can use leafblowers and now you are all changing the rules on them in the middle of the game. They have a point and they have a right to be upset over it.
Um, Tom, I think you are venting your spleen in the wrong direction. But, y’know, whatevs.
At noon today the world (as in the entire world) changed in a monumental way, and we’re arguing about the finer points of a leaf blower ordinance? Maybe it’s a distraction for some people, but it seems an odd topic for discussion.
My spleen? lol.
Sorry Fig and Ted, but my points are still good.
@Jane: Actually, I think this is a perfect illustration of the policies and concerns Pres. Trump ran on. Unnecessary government intervention into the lives of its citizen’s ; government regulations destroying and making it more difficult for businesses to thrive. Perhaps you don’t see that.
This isn’t just about immigrants,it is about landscapers. All of them. This time.
And this is another example at an attempt to redirect the issue and intimidate into silence, because someone’s to use of a term “immigrants lives matter”. So they are immediately called to task for being insensitive…… It is a bullying tactic, plain and simple.
Please don’t go ten steps beyond what I say(again), and presume things. I am not suggesting anything else. @fignewtonville- because I believe landscapers have the right to use equipment that further their performance, so long as no demonstrable harm come s to either them or others, does not suggest I have no interest in their wages or other issues.
Again, if the issue is noise, than it is decibel levels not the machine. If it is health, as Ted has suggested in the past, then this is does not address the problem at all in a satisfactory manner. It seems to expose the hypocrisy of the arguments being made.
I just love the comment about how we are changing the rules in the middle of the game. Tom, tell us your understanding of what the rules were before the change.
Tom, Would like to hear your answer to Oh Wise One’s question. And your reasoning that brings you to the conclusion that anyone who accepts a job must put up with whatever their employer says or does. Also how does the new ordinance change the rules.
Jane, yes it is a distraction and odd.
Neal,
Sticking to only what you said – not presumptions.
You said, “It seems many in favor of the ban keep changing what the root issue ia. Is it a noise nuisance or is it a health issue?” This statement suggests a false dichotomy. It’s not either or, it’s both. Electric blowers are lighter and spew less pollution than gas powered blowers. Lower decibels are less of a nuisance and less harmful to the ears of the users. Advocates are/were not being hypocritical, as you say, they are finding compromises. Hypocritical is your current stance on helping landscapers, particularly immigrants, and your support of Trump, who says he is building a wall, deporting immigrants and removing funding from cities that support immigrants rights unless they are criminals.
You said, “It’s too bad we make ourselves feel good on the backs, and sweat of the blue collar worker- but then again, nothing new with that.” Again not true. You can voice your progressive conspiracy theories, but expect to be called out for them. As said above, this ordinance concerns noise and health and is not pro or against blue collar workers. Less noise and fewer health risks works for everyone.
You questioned my truthfulness in your second comment on this thread. First you said “I have never experienced the inability to use the phone, watch TV ,or think because of the noise from a leaf blower. It is just hyperbole.” I said, “I have.” You did not take me at my word and asked for facts and figures, but expected me to just believe what you said. You indicated later that because you are not able to imagine a situation, it cannot be true, in addition to using hyperbole to try to discredit me by saying “it just is beyond my experience to imagine that leaf blowers are all circling around your house for days on end.”
It’s interesting that you applied the following statement to other commenters’ credibility but not your own when you said, “Regarding the truth; all too often people mistake opinion or personal experience for truth. Often, perhaps usually, they are not the same.”
You present as truth that “bullying by intimidation something completely different than not telling the truth, or bull, as you say. They are not related.” Yes they are. Using lies, bull, to manipulate people into doubting themselves and their beliefs is definitely bullying – such as your attempts to hyperbolize others’ statements (“leaf blowers are all circling around your house for days on end,) to project your bullying onto others (“And this is another example at an attempt to redirect the issue and intimidate into silence, ) to delegitimize others’ experiences (mine,) and to misdirect attention from the actual new ordinance, allowing leaf blowers all year, by making statements indicating a harsh one that leaves workers without jobs or their heavy equipment during peak periods. Classic gaslighting.
OK. Here are some real, true facts. One day in the summer of 2015 I was sitting on my front porch. A landscaper’s truck pulled up a few doors away. Some men got out and turned on two 77 dB leaf blowers. The noise was simply deafening. It was more than enough to drown out conversation; I couldn’t even hear myself think, as the saying goes. Then a wall of dust rose up and since the breeze was blowing in my direction, it moved toward me, and then the whole neighborhood filled up with the stench of partially combusted hydrocarbon exhaust (think of an outboard motor running right in front of your face and you’ll more or less get how this smelled). I fled inside and called the cops. The landscapers kept this up for about 15 minutes, until they had blown all the grass clippings into the street, and they left. The outboard motor smell persisted for about 10 more minutes after that.
In about 20 minutes a very polite policeman arrived and told me that they don’t enforce the leaf blower law because they don’t carry sound measuring devices and anyway, they can’t get there in time to catch the violators. He was absolutely right. The law was not enforceable.
This kind of thing happens all summer all over town. In the fall, of course, it is ten times worse.
The new law does away with the need to measure the sound (the limit before was actually 60 dB, but you had to measure it, and now it is 65 dB, but you don’t). The new law is therefore much more enforceable. Snap a picture and you have all the evidence you need.
In the summer, they don’t clear leaves, they clear grass clippings. Modern battery powered leaf blowers can handle that task easily (many videos of this on the manufacturers’ web sites). Now you would think that given the disruption and pollution that I described and the availability of a machine that can do the job with much, much less noise and NO HYRDOCARBON POLLUTION, that the city might reasonably enact a law that allows only battery powered blowers in the summer, and even limits them to one per lot. After all, we’re talking grass clippings here.
Many cities have 65 dB limits, some have banned gas blowers for some or all of the year, some have banned leaf blowers entirely. It is very interesting to note that towns like Santa Monica, CA and Yonkers, NY, to name only two that have strict rules, have reported that people are not complaining about price increases. And there are still plenty of landscapers doing business there (check the Yellow Pages if you don’t believe me). What this tells me is that the 65 dB leaf blowers are getting the job done. Here in Newton, the Parks and Recreation Department has already switched to 65 dB blowers. The world continued to turn.
But several commentators here, all of whom have shown a hardy determination to maintain their positions without bothering to inform themselves of the facts (that’s how you come up with the hilarious comment about how the city changed the rules on the landscapers) see this as (i) a war on immigrants, (ii) the nanny state (which I think we can define as a state that passes laws that I don’t like), (iii) a violation of “rights” to make very loud noises and fog the area with toxic fumes, (iv) an erosion of individual liberties (goes without saying), and (v) as always, a war on small businesses. They will never admit that it might be nothing more than an attempt to keep our air clean and our neighborhoods quiet. We all have to live together in fairly close quarters and sometimes we need rules to make that work.
A word on small business. It is an article of faith at the Tab that certain small businesses can do no wrong. A nice profit in the hands of their friends and benefactors will justify a considerable amount of illegality or anti-social behavior. The landscapers openly and knowingly violated the leaf blower law for years, and that was just fine. But not all small business is entitled to such consideration. The number of small businesses run from people’s homes here in Newton is considerable and increasing every year (tutors, music teachers, consultants, academics, web designers and many other jobs), but for some reason they don’t count. I wish someone would explain the difference to me because we heard a lot of complaints from these people about how the leaf blowers were preventing them from working in their own homes. Why don’t they count?
The evidence that price increases will actually happen is very sparse and questionable; mostly all we get is hot air and threats. But just for a minute, let’s concede for the sake of argument that it will cost more to clear leaves if the law is enforced (because really that is all we are talking about here). Before the new law, we had people paying a lower price to have their leaves cleared by the use of machines violating the law as a matter of course; literally, part of the landscapers’ business model was to violate this law. Don’t take my word for this, ask one of them. We also had people tortured by the noise, nauseated by the smell, and prevented from carrying on their entirely lawful businesses. So cheap leaf clearing for some imposed financial, health and psychological costs on others. It was, in a very real sense, taking money from those who suffered and giving it to those who got their nice, clean lawns. Under the new system, if it ever happens, the people getting the nice clean lawns will pay a fair price for that service, and the rest of us won’t be making so large a contribution to the cost of those nice, clean lawns as we did before. The city council seems to think that this is a fairer resolution for all concerned than the old system. I agree.
A word about immigrants. A laborer working for a landscaper spends his days in a cloud of very loud noise and toxic dust and fumes. He handles gasoline all the time. He needs ear protection from the noise, but often does not use it. He never wears a dust mask. You don’t need a medical degree to know that this fellow, over time, will develop hearing and respiratory problems. Yet, somebody who advocates banning gas powered blowers, a ban that would make this man’s job much safer and healthier than it is now, can be accused of being anti-immigrant. I also see arguments that banning gas blowers will put this guy out of a job, because (I love this) IT WILL TAKE LONGER WITH A LESS POWERFUL BLOWER. But if it takes longer, won’t he have more work to do, rather than less? Don’t forget that the landscapers claim that they can TRIPLE their prices and get away with it. We’re not talking about putting anybody out of a job.
I have to ask: are these crocodile tears on behalf of the worker, or are they for the guy who hired him, and who is worried about his profits, while at the same time threatening to increase his profits dramatically by tripling his prices?
Here’s my take on what will happen. It will take a long time, but the law will be enforced. That’s because a lot of people are fired up about this, and they are organized. Don’t believe me? Look at the lopsided vote in the city council.
Prices will rise slightly, but only slightly. There are two reasons for this. First, the competition for this highly profitable work is fierce. There are already eco-friendly landscapers out there who are willing to match prices with the dinosaurs. Second, there is not all that much difference between the performance of the low noise blowers and the 77 dB monsters. The manufacturers have already got the message, and they are working hard on cutting down noise. Echo and Stihl offer “professional” grade low noise blowers, battery and gas. The performance of the low noise blowers has improved markedly, even over the last couple of years. Take a look at the videos of the low noise blowers at work; you’ll be impressed.
Surely I have better things to do with myself then write these letters!
@Marti: The health concern raised in the past with this issue, regarded asthma due to the particles pushed into the air from the leaf blower itself, same would be true for electric powered.
Regarding the use of electric versus gas. First, if the issue is gas and pollution, there are certainly many other gasoline powered machines which cause much greater amounts of pollution, why choose the leaf blower of all things to try to make a difference.
As far as using electric itself, are these solar powered leaf blowers in the ordinance? Where do you think the majority of electricity comes from around here, certainly not clean renewable energy.?
I did not apply the statement about truth, and opinion to anyone in particular. I include myself in the group when I say “people”, which is why I said people.
If you think saying, “it just is beyond my experience to imagine that leaf blowers are all circling around your house for days on end, is an example of bullying, then I say, wow.
By the way Marti, when you say you are sticking to only what I said, where have I ever said I supported Trump? You should go back and reread the thread, this is not the only example of you attributing to me what others said instead.
@ Neal, WAY T O GO!!
Now all of the sudden, everyone is a landscape professional?! Maybe you like the nice green , well kept manicured lawns… is that what you people are looking for, a free cut?! I challenge all the opposers including Alderman who supported the ban to micromange which tool should be used and when, to volunteer with a landscaper come fall, you can even use the tool of your choice…and then you can make your final decision for yourselves. 1 day is all you’ll ever need.
@ Neal, WAY T O GO!!
Now all of the sudden, everyone is a landscape professional?! Maybe you like the nice green , well kept manicured lawns… is that what you people are looking for, a free cut?! I challenge all the opposers including Alderman who supported the ban to micromange which tool should be used and when, to volunteer with a landscaper come fall, you can even use the tool of your choice…and then you can make your final decision for yourselves. 1 day is all you’ll ever need.
OH WISE ONE – do you know that many of the Green Landscapers that Newton Safe and Sound have promoted are not insured? Did you know that if something were to happen while an uninsured person is working on your property and that your home insurance would be used and you run the risk of losing your home insurance or your premium going up? Did you know that the CITY is the biggest Violator of the 65 db blower rule? As late as November – the City Vendor was cleaning an elementary school using multiple 77 db Blower ? And if the city vendor has to use the 65db blower to clean city property dont you think that the price will go up and so will our taxes? And you are right that the competition is fierce in this area of business. But it is all the “no names” that dont have insurance, dont pay full taxes and are willing to give a discount if you pay cash so they dont have to report it to the IRS ( and yes I know this for a fact Greg). So yes you are probably correct that they will charge less because they are not claiming it but is it worth your risk as a homeowner to have someone uninsured working on your property?
And lets discuss Electric Blowers for a minute. Do you think that the City Vendor or the local landscaper can plug the cord into a tree to get it to work? How do you think they will have to power them? THINK Generator which will be noisier that the 77 db blower that everyone is concerned about.
And I hate to tell you but the use of Photos or Videos to report the Landscapers has been removed from the bill. So you can call the Police or the City inspectors to come to the site to examine the equipment.
And finally – The Councilors that did not like that the Landscapers had signs that said Immigrants Lives Matter – Who are the majority of the Landscapers in Newton? LEGAL Immigrants. Unfortunately the Hypocrites that are currently serving in the Council dont even understand how Hypocritical they are when they support a Sanctuary City to “help” Illegal Immigrants or as they like to call them Undocumented Aliens but dont support Legal Immigrants many that are Landscapers that Work, Live, Vote and Pay Taxes in Newton.
Maybe the Councilors should worry about the City – I just drove down Adams Street in Nonantum and it is a Mess – Maybe the Ward 1 Alderman should put her energy to getting the city to fix the streets in her ward instead of promoting uninsured Landscapers while putting out of business her constituents.
As one of the speakers from Nonantum said on Wednesday Night – We have elected you to concern yourselves with the City of Newton Issues- streets, schools, safety, city issues.
It is an election year – from what I have been hearing there are quite a few people considering running for city council. The reality is that many people are fed up with our City Councilors not concerning themselves with the local issues that they were elected to do. It is about time that Newton issues come first. Time will tell how many people will throw their hat into the race.
If this is true, I think that is so ironic, and too funny. The electric leaf blower will be plugged into a gas powered generator?
Since its only the noise from the leaf blower that concerns us, how will the police know how much noise is coming from each?
More noise and more pollution.
Reminds me of the TV show Get Smart- “another case cracked”, by our elite City Councilors.
@Joanne, I agree that Adams Street looks terrible right now. Most of the trees were removed in the fall in preparation for major street renovations this spring. The leaky cast iron gas pipe was recently replaced as well. Adams Street will be a model for a “Complete Street”; improvements include new paving, curbing and sidewalk replacement. Over 30 new trees will be planted. I asked to “underground” all the overhead wires but that proved to be too expensive.
Newton Corner will also be undergoing pedestrian and access improvements this spring. The entire Village is scheduled for major renovation in 2019.
Thanks for your interest in Ward 1.
@Neil, we will not allow the use of gasoline powered generators to power electric blowers. That is completely ridiculous. It will be addressed.
Councilor Leary – the only thing that is ridiculous is that you did not understand what you were compromising. Too Bad you did not spend less time on Google and sending emails to your Newton Safe and Sound friends to keep on sending emails to the Councilors ( Yes Greg I know this for a fact) and MORE time listening to the Landscaping Professionals. I know you were trying to compromise for the Colleges and Golf Courses since they make TONS of Money for themselves but give LITTLE or NO TAX MONEY to the City. But the reality is that you did not have the knowledge of what you were compromising. That is what happens when you try to ban something and destroy local businesses and dont have the background knowledge in it.
Really – What did you think the City Vendor was going to plug his electric blower into – A TREE???
Alison Leary-
how are you supposed to use an electric blower with houses with no outdoor outlets, big parking lots, 1+ acre houses?
how are you supposed to charge 10+ batteries to get through a days works?
i am sure you are aware that OSHA/manufactures stat maximum distances for extension cords so generators are necessary. I believe the max is 150ft with a 12 gauge wire
It appears that you do not agree with your own proposal, correct?
Also, many battery operated blower manufactures suggest not using a battery when temps are over 85 degrees. How can the landscapers operate with a lose lose situation.
quick question, would the city be responsible if a lithium ion battery caught fire and caused property damage since the city is requiring this to be the only option if gas generators are eliminated?
Cambridge, Arlington and Brookline allow generators to power electric equipment.
How can a construction companies in Newton have gas generators going but landscapers aren’t allowed to use them? Why do you hate landscapers so much? why not just ticket and fine the bad companies when they blow into the street or over the dB level?
Oh, Now it’s time for a “re-visit” of their ban?! This is laughable and just goes to show you how they did not analyze their focus very well prior to implementing bans and ordinances!
@J I commend you!! Thank you for being a real “voice of reason” and enlightening us all with the true facts of being a landscaper/contract worker trying to earn a living. This has been discrimination towards the landscapers from the get-go and they know it!
Gas powered leafblowers are only restricted in the summer. J says Echo has one listed at 65 db. Use it or one like it during the fall, winter and spring. Simple.
In summer, use something else. Simple.
Landscapers and homeowners can keep their gas blowers during the heavy leaf gathering months. Win.
Residents have a little more peace and quiet in the summer. Win.
All of these outlandish, hyperbolic, insulting comments are unnecessary, as is “walking in another’s shoes,” at this point. We’ve had the hearings, demonstrations, postponements for bogus reasons. It’s been going on for over two years. This is a simple solution.
I implore the city councilors to approve these restrictions.
And I implore those who supported the ban (micromanagement) to open dialogue with a landscape/contract worker to find “common ground” instead of discriminating against them by placing silly bans and ordinances on them. And now Alison Leary wants to “address” the issue of the gas generators…. this is laughable!! How did anyone think you’d operate an electric blower or electric anything if you cannot use an outside outlet?! This whole thing has been bogus from get go!
A response to a Landscaper’s recent questions:
1. There are plenty of Green Newton Landscapers using electric battery-operated leaf blowers IN Newton. They have plenty of business and you could, too. You need to move with the times. Newton Green Landscapers have no problem charging their blowers in their trucks.
2. I will introduce you to other landscapers in Newton who have plenty of charge on their batteries for the entire day.
3. Newton Green Landscapers do NOT use extension cords OR generators. They are considerate.
4. Councilor Leary knows that this new ordinance will increase the quality of life for many residents. Plenty of Green Landscapers in Newton are adapting to this new ordinance because they are concerned about Newton residents who work at home, concerned about the terrible noise of leaf blowers, about the carcinogens emitted from gas-powered leaf blowers, the fossil fuels that are burned, and the health of the lungs and the ears of operators like yourself.
5. Things happen: gas can spill and gas can catch fire, also.
6. In the summer the leaves are on the trees. You tend to forget that. In the summer if you are working on a lawn there are other things to do: Pruning, planting, edging, mowing, fertilizing, etc. You do not NEED to use ANY leaf blower in the summer except to blow dust.
If it is over 85 degrees you should take a break and go swim in the lake.
7. We are Newton. We are going to do what is best for NEWTON. Newton Councilors have heard long testimonies from many, many, many Newton residents whose lives are terribly impacted by leaf blowers. 20 out of 24 Newton City Councilors voted for this new ordinance because the overuse of leaf blowers creates a terrible problem for many residents.
8. We do not hate you. Why are you not willing to make some changes? Your neighbors are telling you there is a problem with leaf blowers. Why??? Please tell me why all you do is fight to keep things exactly like they have always been. There is a serious problem here. Work with us. Don’t fight us.
9. You are missing out on an excellent money-making opportunity: Go with the flow. Advertise your self as Green, as caring about the environment. Change your practices to show consideration for others. We will hire you. You will get LOTS of work. The Green landscapers now in Newton have TOO MUCH WORK. They cannot take on any more customers. I do not understand why you do not capitalize on this market. Go with the times. Change is good. Change is inevitable.
One Answer from Karen Bray
Karen Bray-
As one of the largest companies in Newton. I DO OFFER to rake or use electric and battery blowers. NO ONE has ever hired me for this type of service. PLEASE do not tell me how to run my company which is booked out by mid spring for the ENTIRE YEAR. In 22 years I have never ever had anyone complain about a blower to me. I use it respectively and only when needed. I know a few companies who are eco-friendly that work in Newton. They also use Gas equipment for larger yards and it even stats it on their websites. Also, they are not busy and sometimes only work 3-4 days a week.
The landscapers were willing to make a compromise which was to lower the # of the blowers per property and the dB level per time of year. Please note, not all companies are bad so do not treat all of us like garbage. This current vote just made the noise level increase because of generators which will allow companies to use electric blower and/or charge batteries. As you are aware generators are allowed to be louder than 65dB. How do you get a whole day of battery use from 1 battery? Please tell me which model has that life. The only ones i have seen that are allowed in Newton last about 15-20 min and takes 2-3 hours to charge. So, instead of using a generator use my truck to charge it? Have it constantly running for 10 hour days??? That is even worse and illegal in Newton. You cannot idle for more than 7 minutes I believe. Now, the gas blower I use during the summer from Mid April to mid October uses only 1.5 gallons of gas a week. Now, the generator will need 2-4 gallons of gas a DAY that is about 80 dB and will increase costs on average 25% for general mowings.
I’ve got 100’s of emails from customers and other citizens who are not too happy. In fact, some companies are already quitting Newton. I was told this wouldn’t happen. Not fair! This is how people make money and support their families.
Do you know the majority of battery operated blowers companies stat their products are really meant for commercial use. I do agree that we should all do what is best for the earth and each other. But we aren’t there yet. Maybe in 5 years or so but not ready for commercial use yet. The only way to limit gas, emissions and noise is to have smaller cc engines and the # of blowers used per property. That would obviously reduce the negative impacts but give that a few years and see where the technology is at that point.
I wish I could jump in the lake when the temps are high but I have a family to take care. Why don’t you go get an office on the top floor so there is no noise? You do what is best for you and I will do what is best for me but this entire blower rule is way before its time. 100’s of cities and towns across the country have shot this down real fast. Even some towns/city that touch Newton will not even take a vote on this matter. It isn’t logical and practical now.
Now, I hear you want to start eliminating lawnmowers???? Not cool at all
@ Allison: ” We will not allow”‘ “it will be addressed”. Sounds quite authoritarian, very Trumpian.
Alison-
My neighbor likes to vacuum during the summer with the windows open, can I call the police since it is 70dB?
Karen- would some of those green landscapers that your organization Newton Safe and Sound and it members including Councilor Leary are advocating for the ones that are NOT insured and are willing to take cash for a discount so that they dont have to report it to the IRS? Are those the types of Businesses that you want in NEWTON? And do you know if they or their workers gets hurt on your property and if they are UNINSURED that you Home insurance will be used? And you run the risk of your insurance premium going up or losing your home insurance? Didn’t know you were so adamant to get rid of the Legal Landscaping Immigrants who work, live, pay taxes and VOTE in Newton for these uninsured companies? Do you really think it is appropriate for you and your organization to promote uninsured businesses?
@Joanne, or to tell people if it’s too hot to work outside to take a break and go “jump in a lake”? What an awful thing to say….This is the rationale of some people here in Newton, the ones who claim we are “diverse” and “inclusive” and “welcome all” (so long as you share their same beliefs) yet, try to lay down a law or micromanage of that which they know nothing about… but keep “flexing their keyboard muscles” in the hopes to convert people who don’t know any better or don’t do their research (speak to a contract/landscape worker they’ll be glad to inform you on what it takes to do their type of work). How shameful that this has become a pitting case of discrimination towards landscapers… many people I have spoken to don’t think Newton is what it once was and I have lived here my whole life, nearly 1/2 century and sadly, I would have to agree with them. All you need to do is read some of these lengthy dissertations and it won’t take long for you to see through to their true colors.
Also, getting back to “addressing” the generators….good luck finding a contract worker to install a new roof on a hot day or build your pretty deck/patio or just perform general outdoor home improvements when they find out that Newton doesn’t allow the use of generators… Maybe Karen can go tell them to “jump in a lake” too…good luck with that. How rude!
Joanne,
I also heard that from other people. One of them is probably going out of business since he only has 15 or so accounts. Joanne, I am a landscaper in Newton and I do not know any companies who will refuse to rake or use a electric/battery blower. The reason why the majority of use do not use them is because it gets really expensive for the customers. This is why these machines exist because they are fast and powerful. So to promote other companies is just wrong. I don’t know who Karen Bray is but how would she feel if landscapers went to her house and told her patients to seek other PT places.
This ban is a waste of money. The noise will stay the same because the alternative solution is just as loud and if not louder. The minimal amount of dust will stay the same because i don’t think anyone will use water to hose down their walkways just as they did in CA but were told to go back to blowers because of the drought. The pollution will be the same because some people will use outlets on the houses and the others will use generators which will even out more or less to the pollution level since they give more pollution. In Brookline, many companies use generators to power the equipment.
The funny part of this whole entire debate is NO ONE has any idea what this is going to cost the city because there are NO bids for this type of work. In fact, many companies probably wont even put a bid in so the cost can be as high as the lowest bidder. I HOPE THERE IS AN OVERRIDE FOR THIS!!!! THAT WILL REALLY GET THE CITIZENS UPSET (which the majority already are).
There are already laws about noise with restrictions. This is getting ridiculous. We are only amending the rule for ONE type of machine. People who choose to work from home, choose to open their windows, choose not to have A/C is their choice. So, everyone else has to suffer. WE LIVE IN A CITY!!!!! I got MBTA buses run pass my house every 10-20 minutes EVERYDAY. BEFORE 7AM and AFTER 5pm. I hear it but I just deal with it. We are humans and we adapt to things. You can’t make everyone happy but you can make yourself happy by changing things. I installed all new windows in my house and it worked. A neighbor did the same with new insulation and it fixed itself. The problem was gone.
I gotta laugh. Need a stress break.
It’s amusing to use being a member of Newton Safe and Sound as an insult.
It’s amusing that with the legitimate things Karen Bray said, the part about taking a break is pounced on.
It’s amusing to read as an argument against the 65 db limit that “there are already laws with restrictions” since it’s already at 65 db and the manufacturers label is the only change, making the current law more easily enforced. To be so upset, it appears the law is being broken just not enforced.
It’s amusing to read that those who argue against the restrictions say they “don’t know who Karen Bray is,” when they use pseudonyms or first names for themselves.
It’s amusing to read that supporters “want to convert people.” It’s obvious none of you will be “converted” to see another side. The council has bent over backwards to talk to landscapers and attend their demonstrations for 2 years.
It’s amusing that the gas powered blower ban is only in the summer but the arguments against it pertain mostly to their need during the months they are not prohibited.
It’s amusing to read comments from landscapers accusing other landscapers of having no insurance or paying workers under the table. Throwing others in the same business without knowing anything about them under the bus. Well, no, that’s just sad.
Having fun? I did. Feeling better – can go back to work.
Marti – The leaf blower is the most common used equipment on the trailer. It is needed at every job. From fertilizer application, mulch cleanup, mowings, pollen cleanup, shrub pruning cleanup, plantings, sealcoating parking lots/driveways, cleaning parking lots, leaf cleanup, etc.
What happens when a house is sold in June and no one did a cleanup before? Let the leaves sit there until Labor Day?
I just cant wait to see how my commercial accounts will be when we cant blow down a parking lot and all the fine sand, dirt, gum wrappers, cigarettes, etc get floated over to the catch basin by the rain and done into the sewer. That’s good for the environment, right???
you hit the nail on the head. this was never enforced. That is the problem. If you see a company breaking the law then call the police.
Imagine if this whole forum was done by snail mail via a typewriter. The messages will still get to one another but it will take much longer. This is what is going to happen when landscapers cleanup the city, same results with higher bills
The reason the “cash” companies can do it for less is because they don’t pay any taxes or insurances. They are out there and the reason some of these “GREEN COMPANIES” do this is because of what the owner told me: ” I only have several houses to make some extra cash. If I had to pay insurances I wouldn’t make anything”
At the risk of setting off a fire storm:
1) I didn’t find Karen’s comment about jumping in a lake to be helpful. I’m sure there is some frustration there. But I wish when I worked similar jobs that I could just take off when temperatures exceeded 85 degrees. I used to work in 100 degree weather. It’s a tough job. Again, this conversation and debate is frustrating on many levels so I understand where the comment came from, but not helpful.
2) Just curious, but are Ann, Joanne and J all from the same landscaping family? No issue if so, but clearly there is a connection. Perhaps just shared interests.
3) I will note that I’d be a little more sympathetic to the generator issue if there was some trust built up in this conversation. But I do seem to recall Ann and Joanne claiming victory in other threads, and generally “spiking the football” about the landscaping industry getting what it wanted in the “compromise”. I remarked that certain posters made poor advocates of their industries position. I still believe that. And there is a part of me that feels that the landscaping companies and their allies knew exactly what they were asking for in the Summer electric vs a full summer ban, and it as always their plan to take two bites of the legislative apple, so to speak. I wasn’t happy with the compromise, but I’d prefer to see it enforced before we give up the one item that was true change.
4) I own an electric leaf blower. It is underpowered. It is corded. It still works great for leaves and grass clippings if they are not wet. It would clearly be an adjustment to go electric for the landscapers.. But I believe the landscapers on this thread were claiming summer use was only to blow clippings off sidewalk, and for short periods. Now the summer electric switch is the end of the world requiring full generators.
5) my interest here is not for a complete “green” solution. Nor is it for a complete ban. But the landscaping side who posts here effectively seems to want to label anyone who objects to the noise as powerless and whiners. But using the legislative process is part of what makes this community and this country great.
6) I’ll note in passing that none of the landscapers have addressed my concerns about how they actually treat their employees. Ear protection? Health Care? Worker’s comp? Or day laborers? I am sure there is a wide range of companies. But I’d certainly feel more sympathetic to landscapers if they provided a minimum of benefits.
7) Some of this IS on the residents of Newton. Many of the landscape companies are servicing large lots here in Newton, according to J. I believe him. Those lots are now worth 3 to 4 million in many cases. Those owners could clearly afford to hire companies who treat their employees well and use green methods. But they don’t and I don’t think such changes really make the landscape companies that do them more marketable. So shame on all of us. Many of us (myself included) are armchair warriors for justice until we have to spend 20% more for the same service, ethically done. We are supporters of many good causes but it stops at our back door. Until that changes, why would landscaping companies voluntary give up money/clients without a fight?
I’m going to ease off posting in response to Ann/Joanne/J, since we seem to be talking in circles. I’ve done my best to understand their positions and I’ve posted my thoughts. On to other threads and issues, and I’ll speak up again when changes to the compromise are in front of the counsel.
@fignewtonville
I do not know anyone on here. I am sticking up for my customers, some of them are 85+ years old with a fixed income. I have parking lots that are 30,000 sq. ft. with no outlets. So i need a generator or a battery used blower. A battery blower will involve over 15-20 batteries based from last years records with only 1 blower at a time for about 6 continuous hours. I will have to hire more staff which now increases overhead and at the end of the line gets passed down do the customer.
As for my employees, they are 100% on payroll and i am fully insured. Are you aware there are undercover state employees who pull up to see if you have workman’s comp. if not they tow your vehicle. It is hard to have a “real company” and get away from the insurance and taxes.
Some houses you can get away with just a broom but not ALL lots in Newton are like that.
I just saw some city employees a few days ago grinding stumps and they left a mess all over the residents yard, sidewalk and street. As i was walking by i said “be nice to have a blower” their response was “this is as good as its going to get”
Any City councilors on here, is the city now going to sweep the streets almost weekly like Brookline does? No one is going to blow off the streets anymore. I remove more nails, and broken glass than anyone can imagine. The fine sediment will travel into the catch basin and slow down the waterflow in the pipes. Did anyone look into that? Will the city have to buy more trucks to clean out the pipes. The evidence is there. There is going to be a flowchart of problems and that is why only 80-100 cities/towns have these bans. SOME OF THOSE DON’T EVEN HAVE FALL (NO LEAVES) . 1000’s of citys and towns DID NOT vote in favor of this. This is known because Emily Norton wants Newton to set the standards for the entire country. unfortunately most states differ from one another in types of what equipment is needed.
Off to go look at small generators….
J:
I’m definitely aware of the state regulations. Just going by what I see in my local neighborhood. Some crews seem licensed. Many others….not so much. And none of them have benefits I’ve talked to. Many are seasonal workers who get let go each fall at the end.
Few wearing hearing protection while using the leaf blowers. Regardless of our respective positions, that should be a must for anyone using loud equipment.
For the record, I do think J that more and more communities are going to enact regulations such as this. Give it 5 years.
@fignewtonville
depending how the company is run if you are a seasonal employee you do not have to offer benefits. All my guys have hearing protection, eye protection. We have first aid kits per MA law. OSHA only requires hearing at 85dB at 8 hrs of usage so in theory blowers do not need them however, we use them for all equipment.
If you see something wrong feel free to call the police or correct MA department.
Feel free to google dB levels because every household has louder appliance than a blower that is used daily. There are many charts available.
In every industry there are good companies and bad ones. The good ones will live on and the bad ones will fail.
Remember if you see something wrong call the police. No need to be enabling these companies who brought the city to a “civil war”
I am sure the city got calls/emails from citizens that were unhappy with a blower next door. No one has any record of how many complaints there were plus I am sure there are some from the same citizen multiple times. So, to use this and say people called doesn’t mean anything because NOW the city is going to get calls from the unhappy citizens with higher bills and louder noise.
The whole 2 years was handle poorly. The landscaper side tried many times to meet with Newton South and Sound but was denied. Also, the only real opportunity to defend ourselves was a week before the vote which Councilor Leary cancelled last minute. Maybe if they knew generators would increase pollution and noise level they would of thought differently. Now, this is way worse for EVERYONE. This was rushed through and handle poorly by certain councilors.
J:
I can’t address all of your points with experience, but I do know that when I use my blower without ear protection for an hour in the fall, my ears ring at the end of it. So I started putting on headphones to block out some of the noise. I’m glad you provide the required protections, I wish everyone did.
We may have to disagree on the noise being worth the marginal gain in the summer. I was willing to give up a complete ban during spring/fall as a necessary compromise. I just don’t see the means justifying the cost during the summer.
Anyway, this is my last post on this particular issue. I am certainly not going to convince you of the above, and you aren’t going to convince me that a leafblower is vital during the summer since I don’t use mine all summer. That’s ok. Folks can disagree.
Thank you for the conversation.
fignewtonville- i enjoyed the debate. I do agree with you about the summer use that blowers are not needed as much but they are necessary for some jobs. just 3 examples, I have houses were we clean the gutters during the end of June because all the oak tree pollen is all over the place until then. Also, MA law requires all hardscapes to be blown off from fertilizer applications. Also, summer time is when you prune shrubs so they are diffently needed then too. We service 100’s of houses in Newton and every property is different.
How about publishing the leafblower ordinance as finally approved. The City’s website has out of dated information: http://www.newtonma.gov/gov/aldermen/committees/programs/default.asp
The minutes from the council meeting don’t have a coherent ordinance since it is filled with accepted and rejected amendments: http://www.newtonma.gov/civicax/filebank/documents/80390/01-17-17%20Council%20Actions%20-%20Draft.pdf
@J – Looks your 0 for 3 on your three examples:
“I have houses were we clean the gutters during the end of June because all the oak tree pollen is all over the place until then.”
Oak trees will typically stop pollinating by the end of May so no reason to wait until the end of June.
“Also, MA law requires all hardscapes to be blown off from fertilizer applications.”
Actually, the related directive to the Law say: “Do not apply plant nutrient materials to sidewalks or other impervious surfaces. Any material that lands on these surfaces must be swept back onto the grass or cleaned up.”
Swept, not blown. Blowing would actually be the worse idea since the law to trying to prevent these from getting into the water supply.
“Also, summer time is when you prune shrubs so they are diffently needed then too”
Or you could use a ground cloth underneath to catch them for dumping. The few that might be missed are easily collected with a rake.
I see a lot of blowing to clean up walkways, driveways, etc. but I don’t see any landscaper actually collecting that stuff. It sits in the road until the rain carries it away or the street sweeper comes. I believe one of your early arguments about the ban is that it would increase the amount of material going into the sewers. I’d say that would be a push.
April 14, 2015
To whom it may concern,
As scientists at Silent Spring Institute, we are writing to share our concerns about the health effects of gasoline powered leaf blowers and other gas-powered landscaping equipment. Our 2014 review of likely breast carcinogens (available at http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/1307455/) identified exposure to benzene, 1,3-butadiene, and many polyaromatic hydrocarbons as particularly high concerns based on their strength as genotoxic carcinogens and the potential for high exposure both from gasoline fumes and from the exhaust of gasoline powered devices such as leafblowers. The Institute of Medicine also recently identified benzene and butadiene as two of the environmental chemicals most likely to increase breast cancer risk (their report is available at http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2011/Breast-Cancer-and-the-Environment-A-Life-Course-Approach.aspx).
In addition to possible links with breast cancer, these chemicals and others in gasoline fumes and exhaust have been linked to asthma and other respiratory problems as well as cancer at multiple sites.
Sincerely,
Ruthann Rudel
Research Director, Silent Spring Institute
Janet Ackerman
Staff Scientist, Silent Spring Institute