By popular demand here’s a place to discuss plans to renovate Cabot Elementary school.
Cabot School renovation open thread
by Greg Reibman | Apr 14, 2016 | Newton | 160 comments
Crazy Divers: Men be like...
drivers man be like
By popular demand here’s a place to discuss plans to renovate Cabot Elementary school.
Crazy Divers: Men be like...
drivers man be like
The thread was somewhat to continue a discussion between Paul and me regarding the recent rehab, but let’s note that the PTO is sending out surveys/petitions to support the new site plan, there seems to have been the purchase of a adjoining house, new traffic patterns. I’m a big fan of the new plan, it isn’t perfect but I think it will end up being a great new school campus. Very interested in others thoughts.
From the lobbying of the PTO, I feel there must be some sort of opposing force as well. I’d welcome that feedback. Safe space to say anything. Anonymous and open. 😉
I’m not on any of the boards or directly involved (as always). I think Parks and Rec really blew an opportunity to improve the park, but maybe it doesn’t matter now with the new plan. Others?
The thread was somewhat to continue a discussion between Paul and me regarding the recent rehab, but let’s note that the PTO is sending out surveys/petitions to support the new site plan, there seems to have been the purchase of a adjoining house, new traffic patterns. I’m a big fan of the new plan, it isn’t perfect but I think it will end up being a great new school campus. Very interested in others thoughts.
From the lobbying of the PTO, I feel there must be some sort of opposing force as well. I’d welcome that feedback. Safe space to say anything. Anonymous and open. 😉
I’m not on any of the boards or directly involved (as always). I think Parks and Rec really blew an opportunity to improve the park, but maybe it doesn’t matter now with the new plan. Others?
As a parent of a current Angier student, I am THRILLED with the new school. It is 21st learning space. . . . and both Angier kids and Cabot kids were trapped in a building from the 1920’s which had outlived its educational value for our children. The new Angier is huge, however there is enough space for everything. . . having the kids eat in a cafeteria where food is cooked (and not trucked in) should be something every elementary student has. The past Angier kids have eaten in a hallway!
There is proper space for EVERYTHING, including small group work with a special education aide.
I know that there are many people who believed that Angier could have been renovated, however I am so happy with this end result, and I hope the Cabot students and Zervas students and teachers are just as happy. I just wish that we hadn’t tried to educate kids in Cabot and Angier for the last 30 years, because the space was not adequate.
Change is hard (and expensive) but I know that the kids and teachers have the space they NEED at the new Angier.
As a parent of a current Angier student, I am THRILLED with the new school. It is 21st learning space. . . . and both Angier kids and Cabot kids were trapped in a building from the 1920’s which had outlived its educational value for our children. The new Angier is huge, however there is enough space for everything. . . having the kids eat in a cafeteria where food is cooked (and not trucked in) should be something every elementary student has. The past Angier kids have eaten in a hallway!
There is proper space for EVERYTHING, including small group work with a special education aide.
I know that there are many people who believed that Angier could have been renovated, however I am so happy with this end result, and I hope the Cabot students and Zervas students and teachers are just as happy. I just wish that we hadn’t tried to educate kids in Cabot and Angier for the last 30 years, because the space was not adequate.
Change is hard (and expensive) but I know that the kids and teachers have the space they NEED at the new Angier.
I’ve heard that a section of Cabot Park will be appropriated for parking. Is this true? How much?
I’ve heard that a section of Cabot Park will be appropriated for parking. Is this true? How much?
The latest plans are available on the project manager’s site. While there was a discussion last fall about claiming a significant amount of park land for parking, the current designs only have parking along the side of the road, possibly taking a few feet of the park (not sure) Parking instead is spread out, including parking along East Side Parkway (hopefully with pathway and sidewalk improvements through the park to support this)
The latest plans are available on the project manager’s site. While there was a discussion last fall about claiming a significant amount of park land for parking, the current designs only have parking along the side of the road, possibly taking a few feet of the park (not sure) Parking instead is spread out, including parking along East Side Parkway (hopefully with pathway and sidewalk improvements through the park to support this)
Tory:
There is a very minor amount of parkland. Basically the edge of the park which is now a fence will have parking. No loss of usable park land from what I can tell. And the playground and playspace areas will be much improved and not separated from the park by a road. Basically it ties together the park and the school in a pretty terrific way. The school expands on the road area, which is closed except for emergency vehicles.
There was a lot of hue and cry about 2.5% of the park being used as a parking lot earlier in the process, but Parks and Rec refused to allow that to go forward, despite the city offering to modernize most of the rest of the park in return. The park use now is negligible. Really. I thought that was incredibly narrow-minded, but now that the extra home purchase allowed for better circulation around the site, I care a lot less. The parking situation isn’t perfect, but it is a compromise I’m ok with.
Tory:
There is a very minor amount of parkland. Basically the edge of the park which is now a fence will have parking. No loss of usable park land from what I can tell. And the playground and playspace areas will be much improved and not separated from the park by a road. Basically it ties together the park and the school in a pretty terrific way. The school expands on the road area, which is closed except for emergency vehicles.
There was a lot of hue and cry about 2.5% of the park being used as a parking lot earlier in the process, but Parks and Rec refused to allow that to go forward, despite the city offering to modernize most of the rest of the park in return. The park use now is negligible. Really. I thought that was incredibly narrow-minded, but now that the extra home purchase allowed for better circulation around the site, I care a lot less. The parking situation isn’t perfect, but it is a compromise I’m ok with.
@Fig
Busy day, just getting back here. Here are my thoughts on how Cabot has been treated unfairly:
1. MSBA does a needs survey on every school in the state that helps them determine which schools should be considered for state funding. Cabot scored worse among all Newton schools. Angier also did poorly on some metrics, but Cabot was given a rating on “General Environment” that put it in the worst 0.5% of all schools in the state, in addition to its poor “Building Condition” rating. They are the experts, presumably objective. Seemed clear which school should be highest on our priority list, based on the data. Worst 0.5%. Think about that. In Newton.
2. That said, Angier did poorly also, I was reasonably trusting back then, so perhaps it was not unreasonable that people in Newton closer to the situation had a slightly different assessment. So we have an override referendum. What are we told? Angier applies to MSBA first, Cabot second. Also money for Zervas (what exactly was the decision-making process to choose a second school from that part of town, by the way?), but absolutely nothing is said about Zervas being built after Angier and before Cabot. AFTER the override is successful, roughly 2-3 months later I believe, we hear that the timing has been looked at, and given the timelines involved in MSBA submissions, we have time to build Zervas without have any impact on Cabot’s timeline. Really? I’m to believe that no one knew that before the override? Not an inkling that one part of the city gets two elementary schools before others parts get one?
3. Now its time to design Cabot. And as you suggest, there is broad consensus that from a pure design standpoint, a brand-new school was best for the kids and their education. Best layout, best allocation of space, etc. I don’t believe anyone has suggested otherwise. But other factors come into play. As you suggest, one that has been mentioned is the “time” to tear-down versus add and renovate. Remember when there were assurances that Zervas would have no impact on Cabot? Seems like that wasn’t true. Putting Zervas first appears to have limited the options for Cabot, and left us with a less optimal design.
4. Historic preservation. I get the value. And support it. But somehow, for Angier, creating the best school for those kids wasn’t impacted by preserving a building from the same time period. They got the brand new school that was the optimal design. Its only when its this part of the city that broader concerns come into play.
Cabot had the worst school condition in Newton by the most objective, expert-driven assessment that we had. Somehow we end with it being the third school built, and the only one of the three that isn’t fully new. I’m sure people like Steve Siegel can come here and litigate this point and that. But there’s a pattern. Cabot is just one of many slights to certain parts of the city, and while you can’t point to any one circumstance and definitively prove the case, the pattern is clear.
I know that the PTO is putting about a big push for people to support the proposal. And we should absolutely support it. But don’t confuse the PTO’s push for the proposal for anything other than doing the best with the current situation. Members of the PTO and parents generally wanted a new school. Cabot’s principal advocated and voted for a new school. They all wanted what was best for our kids. They were ignored. We’re ending up with something less than that.
@Fig
Busy day, just getting back here. Here are my thoughts on how Cabot has been treated unfairly:
1. MSBA does a needs survey on every school in the state that helps them determine which schools should be considered for state funding. Cabot scored worse among all Newton schools. Angier also did poorly on some metrics, but Cabot was given a rating on “General Environment” that put it in the worst 0.5% of all schools in the state, in addition to its poor “Building Condition” rating. They are the experts, presumably objective. Seemed clear which school should be highest on our priority list, based on the data. Worst 0.5%. Think about that. In Newton.
2. That said, Angier did poorly also, I was reasonably trusting back then, so perhaps it was not unreasonable that people in Newton closer to the situation had a slightly different assessment. So we have an override referendum. What are we told? Angier applies to MSBA first, Cabot second. Also money for Zervas (what exactly was the decision-making process to choose a second school from that part of town, by the way?), but absolutely nothing is said about Zervas being built after Angier and before Cabot. AFTER the override is successful, roughly 2-3 months later I believe, we hear that the timing has been looked at, and given the timelines involved in MSBA submissions, we have time to build Zervas without have any impact on Cabot’s timeline. Really? I’m to believe that no one knew that before the override? Not an inkling that one part of the city gets two elementary schools before others parts get one?
3. Now its time to design Cabot. And as you suggest, there is broad consensus that from a pure design standpoint, a brand-new school was best for the kids and their education. Best layout, best allocation of space, etc. I don’t believe anyone has suggested otherwise. But other factors come into play. As you suggest, one that has been mentioned is the “time” to tear-down versus add and renovate. Remember when there were assurances that Zervas would have no impact on Cabot? Seems like that wasn’t true. Putting Zervas first appears to have limited the options for Cabot, and left us with a less optimal design.
4. Historic preservation. I get the value. And support it. But somehow, for Angier, creating the best school for those kids wasn’t impacted by preserving a building from the same time period. They got the brand new school that was the optimal design. Its only when its this part of the city that broader concerns come into play.
Cabot had the worst school condition in Newton by the most objective, expert-driven assessment that we had. Somehow we end with it being the third school built, and the only one of the three that isn’t fully new. I’m sure people like Steve Siegel can come here and litigate this point and that. But there’s a pattern. Cabot is just one of many slights to certain parts of the city, and while you can’t point to any one circumstance and definitively prove the case, the pattern is clear.
I know that the PTO is putting about a big push for people to support the proposal. And we should absolutely support it. But don’t confuse the PTO’s push for the proposal for anything other than doing the best with the current situation. Members of the PTO and parents generally wanted a new school. Cabot’s principal advocated and voted for a new school. They all wanted what was best for our kids. They were ignored. We’re ending up with something less than that.
PS Tory, Fig is correct about the land and parking. There was a proposal to use 2% of the land for 30 parking spots, that was removed from the final plan by Parks and Rec.
PS Tory, Fig is correct about the land and parking. There was a proposal to use 2% of the land for 30 parking spots, that was removed from the final plan by Parks and Rec.
Paul, I don’t know if you were aware of this fact that the Zervas School is being built without any MSBA funds. Angier did use MSBA funds, and Cabot will use MSBA funds. I don’t know what difference that makes in the order for building. The new Angier and the to be built Zervas are 0.8 miles apart. Easy to walk to, while many students around the City have to take buses or be driven to school. Also, Zervas will not be at full capacity for a number of years. I think it’s being built to accommodate 525+, but next year’s enrollment will be in the high 380’s.
Paul, I don’t know if you were aware of this fact that the Zervas School is being built without any MSBA funds. Angier did use MSBA funds, and Cabot will use MSBA funds. I don’t know what difference that makes in the order for building. The new Angier and the to be built Zervas are 0.8 miles apart. Easy to walk to, while many students around the City have to take buses or be driven to school. Also, Zervas will not be at full capacity for a number of years. I think it’s being built to accommodate 525+, but next year’s enrollment will be in the high 380’s.
Paul:
I agree with you on some points and disagree on others. Some thoughts:
1) My recollection is that I was upset that Angier was done before Cabot. I read the MSBA information too. It was a real toss-up. I had thought it was the state that dictated Angier before Cabot in the end. Perhaps a school committee member with a sense of the history can give us some color, but I think in terms of timing this is the crux of your issue.
2) I objected to the timing of Zervas as well. I was pretty pissed off. But if they hold to their current calender, I think at most we were six months delayed. Not ideal. But there is a process for the state funding, and my understanding is that the State wouldn’t have rushed us forward to swing the Carr space concurrently with Angier leaving. Zervais slotted into that spot cleanly, and as long as they stay on time and Cabot gets redesigned on time to be ready for construction and meet State deadlines, I’m no longer upset about it. Again, perhaps some of the folks who I discussed this with earlier last year can discuss again.
3) I don’t disagree that is suspicious that Waban got two new schools done before Cabot. I’m not sure why Cabot rehabbed the historic portion while Angier did not. But I don’t follow you as to how Zervais affected Cabot in the negative way you say. I don’t think they are connected. The historic delay wasn’t brought to light early enough perhaps. Not sure that has anything to do with Zervas. As for their getting a new school while Cabot gets a “rehabbed school”, I think Cabot got some advantages to this design as well. A new school could have more easily fit on the site as is. Would the adjacent road been closed down with a new school? I’m not sure. And that closed road is a huge advantage.
4) Here is the thing. I also remember Zervas’s community complaining bitterly about the increased size of their school. I kept waiting for the city to back away from displeasing that community, to lower the size of Zervas. To their credit Paul, the City held firm. Zervais has a new school, but it is a very large new school, just like Cabot. Just like Angier. Yes, those schools went first. But let’s acknowledge that some school had to go third. I really don’t believe it was anti-Newtonville bias. Some of that has to be faith based, since the Cabot school community hasn’t had the optimal result (last out of three, rehabbed school vs. completely new). But looking at the plans, the new Cabot school is going to be damn awesome. And this isn’t a zero sum game. I’m fine with Angier having a super awesome school, if my kids still get a damn awesome one, right? Some of my kids will age out before they experience it, but even the rehabbed portion will be beautiful. That old Cabot building has good bones. Wait until they expose the windows. It has high ceilings and wide corridors. I’m assuming they will move the bathrooms a bit too… Lots of options with so much NEW space alongside the rehabbed space.
There have definitely been times I’ve felt like Waban has been treated better than other villages. (Affordable housing for one, road repair and sidewalk repair being another). Newtonville got big belly garbage cans just last week after all, way after the other villages. Metered parking. Engine 6. But at some point we are also sometimes looking for a slight where none intentionally existed. Hard to tell. If Angier was dictated by the State, Zervas was a natural plug in school while Cabot finished its State wide paperwork, then the bias question is much less. I’m not saying your points are wrong, just that I’m putting the accent on a different syllable I guess.
And I really do think the new school is going to be terrific. I’m looking forward to playing in that playground for a decade on the weekend with my kids, never mind the school. Hopefully Cabot Park will finally be used for something besides little league and a dog park. (really, right now it is a very under used park. Horribly designed. Horrible except for dogs, softball/baseball). No paths, infant lot is in the middle of nowhere, swings not near the playground equipment, no water, poor grass, and it is a dead zone most of the time. Give me Stern Park any day.
Paul:
I agree with you on some points and disagree on others. Some thoughts:
1) My recollection is that I was upset that Angier was done before Cabot. I read the MSBA information too. It was a real toss-up. I had thought it was the state that dictated Angier before Cabot in the end. Perhaps a school committee member with a sense of the history can give us some color, but I think in terms of timing this is the crux of your issue.
2) I objected to the timing of Zervas as well. I was pretty pissed off. But if they hold to their current calender, I think at most we were six months delayed. Not ideal. But there is a process for the state funding, and my understanding is that the State wouldn’t have rushed us forward to swing the Carr space concurrently with Angier leaving. Zervais slotted into that spot cleanly, and as long as they stay on time and Cabot gets redesigned on time to be ready for construction and meet State deadlines, I’m no longer upset about it. Again, perhaps some of the folks who I discussed this with earlier last year can discuss again.
3) I don’t disagree that is suspicious that Waban got two new schools done before Cabot. I’m not sure why Cabot rehabbed the historic portion while Angier did not. But I don’t follow you as to how Zervais affected Cabot in the negative way you say. I don’t think they are connected. The historic delay wasn’t brought to light early enough perhaps. Not sure that has anything to do with Zervas. As for their getting a new school while Cabot gets a “rehabbed school”, I think Cabot got some advantages to this design as well. A new school could have more easily fit on the site as is. Would the adjacent road been closed down with a new school? I’m not sure. And that closed road is a huge advantage.
4) Here is the thing. I also remember Zervas’s community complaining bitterly about the increased size of their school. I kept waiting for the city to back away from displeasing that community, to lower the size of Zervas. To their credit Paul, the City held firm. Zervais has a new school, but it is a very large new school, just like Cabot. Just like Angier. Yes, those schools went first. But let’s acknowledge that some school had to go third. I really don’t believe it was anti-Newtonville bias. Some of that has to be faith based, since the Cabot school community hasn’t had the optimal result (last out of three, rehabbed school vs. completely new). But looking at the plans, the new Cabot school is going to be damn awesome. And this isn’t a zero sum game. I’m fine with Angier having a super awesome school, if my kids still get a damn awesome one, right? Some of my kids will age out before they experience it, but even the rehabbed portion will be beautiful. That old Cabot building has good bones. Wait until they expose the windows. It has high ceilings and wide corridors. I’m assuming they will move the bathrooms a bit too… Lots of options with so much NEW space alongside the rehabbed space.
There have definitely been times I’ve felt like Waban has been treated better than other villages. (Affordable housing for one, road repair and sidewalk repair being another). Newtonville got big belly garbage cans just last week after all, way after the other villages. Metered parking. Engine 6. But at some point we are also sometimes looking for a slight where none intentionally existed. Hard to tell. If Angier was dictated by the State, Zervas was a natural plug in school while Cabot finished its State wide paperwork, then the bias question is much less. I’m not saying your points are wrong, just that I’m putting the accent on a different syllable I guess.
And I really do think the new school is going to be terrific. I’m looking forward to playing in that playground for a decade on the weekend with my kids, never mind the school. Hopefully Cabot Park will finally be used for something besides little league and a dog park. (really, right now it is a very under used park. Horribly designed. Horrible except for dogs, softball/baseball). No paths, infant lot is in the middle of nowhere, swings not near the playground equipment, no water, poor grass, and it is a dead zone most of the time. Give me Stern Park any day.
@Fig
#1. Newton requested Angier first. MSBA makes the invitation formally, but we went on record saying Angier was our top priority. They followed our request.
#3. I admire your attitude of “turning lemons into lemonade” regarding the renovation enabling the closure of Parkview. Hard to prove a hypothetical, but I think its clear the road would have been closed either way. The push to close Parkview was based on safety– vocally pushed by Cabot’s principal, not based on the design. There was a very close call with a car and a group of students a year ago, and a car actually made light contact with a child a few weeks ago. Parkview was going to be closed either way.
I wonder if that changes your conclusions, particularly #1. We chose Angier first. Zervas second. (I haven’t even touched on the merits of Zervas versus other schools).
@Fig
#1. Newton requested Angier first. MSBA makes the invitation formally, but we went on record saying Angier was our top priority. They followed our request.
#3. I admire your attitude of “turning lemons into lemonade” regarding the renovation enabling the closure of Parkview. Hard to prove a hypothetical, but I think its clear the road would have been closed either way. The push to close Parkview was based on safety– vocally pushed by Cabot’s principal, not based on the design. There was a very close call with a car and a group of students a year ago, and a car actually made light contact with a child a few weeks ago. Parkview was going to be closed either way.
I wonder if that changes your conclusions, particularly #1. We chose Angier first. Zervas second. (I haven’t even touched on the merits of Zervas versus other schools).
Paul, I had thought MSBA had ranked us before our request, and had ranked it Angier 1, Cabot 2. Perhaps someone could confirm from the school ranks.
As for the closing Parkview, hard for either of us to know. But I do know how challenging it has been to close it. The school wants it, the teachers want it, the parents want it, and at the Parks and Rec meeting there were quite a few folks against it from the neighborhood. Would they have needed to buy the house with a compact new design? I don’t know. Was it the logical decision, yes, of course. But the rehab did force their hand. Even then, I remember with some degree of anger being told by more than one much older person at that Parks and Rec meeting that the parents were using the kids as emotional hostages, and that there wasn’t any “real” risk. Which is complete bull if you have a kid that ever attended Cabot, especially the after school program.
As for changing my conclusions, not really. Like I said, it is not as if I think every village is treated fairly all of the time (there are clearly villages that are “more” equal than others. I just don’t feel as strongly on this issue as you do, and I’ve got faith that the end result (the new/rehabbed school) is going to be great. If I thought the school was going to be a disaster, I’d be much more upset I’d guess.
Paul, I had thought MSBA had ranked us before our request, and had ranked it Angier 1, Cabot 2. Perhaps someone could confirm from the school ranks.
As for the closing Parkview, hard for either of us to know. But I do know how challenging it has been to close it. The school wants it, the teachers want it, the parents want it, and at the Parks and Rec meeting there were quite a few folks against it from the neighborhood. Would they have needed to buy the house with a compact new design? I don’t know. Was it the logical decision, yes, of course. But the rehab did force their hand. Even then, I remember with some degree of anger being told by more than one much older person at that Parks and Rec meeting that the parents were using the kids as emotional hostages, and that there wasn’t any “real” risk. Which is complete bull if you have a kid that ever attended Cabot, especially the after school program.
As for changing my conclusions, not really. Like I said, it is not as if I think every village is treated fairly all of the time (there are clearly villages that are “more” equal than others. I just don’t feel as strongly on this issue as you do, and I’ve got faith that the end result (the new/rehabbed school) is going to be great. If I thought the school was going to be a disaster, I’d be much more upset I’d guess.
At this point, MSBA makes the call about which building is first in line. Newton has no say in the matter. Angier was first and Cabot was second. The statistics about the appalling condition in the old Angier and the current Cabot School and the fact that we let this situation continue says something about what we value.
Newton has had overcrowded elementary schools for years, made worse by buildings that were constructed before the 766 law that guaranteed an equal education to students with special needs. This law was a complete game changer in terms of what a school facility needed to include in order to educate all children. This overcrowding issue has existed on both the north and south side of the city for years. The purchase of Aquinas will deal with the overcrowding on the northside and the expanded Zervas will deal with the overcrowding on the southside.
I agree with Fig – the new school facility is going to be terrific. However, a group of 4 architects supported by the Ward 2 councilors has proposed a change in the placement of a part of the building. Word on the street is that this is just one more of many obstructions to the project and that Newton may lose MSBA funding if the project isn’t approved very soon. I spoke with one of the architects at length tonight and he seemed genuinely invested in getting this project done. I know another and want to believe that he’s invested in getting the project done as well. Time will tell.
If we lose MSBA funding for this project because this group of architects who have never designed a school are just placing one more obstacle in the way of this building project, then we will know very soon. If they have a better plan that the DRC can approve within the MSBA timeline and that does not place young children in an unsafe, disgusting building for yet another year, I’m all for it and hats off to them. If the Design Review Committee doesn’t act on this proposal in a very timely manner, then they will also be responsible for the loss of MSBA funding.
As I said at tonight’s Newtonville Area Council meeting, accountability is a high priority for me. If this project loses MSBA funding or places students in a disgusting building for yet another year, 4 residents who are architects, 3 city councilors, and the Design Review Committee will be held accountable.
At this point, MSBA makes the call about which building is first in line. Newton has no say in the matter. Angier was first and Cabot was second. The statistics about the appalling condition in the old Angier and the current Cabot School and the fact that we let this situation continue says something about what we value.
Newton has had overcrowded elementary schools for years, made worse by buildings that were constructed before the 766 law that guaranteed an equal education to students with special needs. This law was a complete game changer in terms of what a school facility needed to include in order to educate all children. This overcrowding issue has existed on both the north and south side of the city for years. The purchase of Aquinas will deal with the overcrowding on the northside and the expanded Zervas will deal with the overcrowding on the southside.
I agree with Fig – the new school facility is going to be terrific. However, a group of 4 architects supported by the Ward 2 councilors has proposed a change in the placement of a part of the building. Word on the street is that this is just one more of many obstructions to the project and that Newton may lose MSBA funding if the project isn’t approved very soon. I spoke with one of the architects at length tonight and he seemed genuinely invested in getting this project done. I know another and want to believe that he’s invested in getting the project done as well. Time will tell.
If we lose MSBA funding for this project because this group of architects who have never designed a school are just placing one more obstacle in the way of this building project, then we will know very soon. If they have a better plan that the DRC can approve within the MSBA timeline and that does not place young children in an unsafe, disgusting building for yet another year, I’m all for it and hats off to them. If the Design Review Committee doesn’t act on this proposal in a very timely manner, then they will also be responsible for the loss of MSBA funding.
As I said at tonight’s Newtonville Area Council meeting, accountability is a high priority for me. If this project loses MSBA funding or places students in a disgusting building for yet another year, 4 residents who are architects, 3 city councilors, and the Design Review Committee will be held accountable.
@Jane
“At this point…” yes, that’s right. But you’re leaving out important facts.
We named Angier first in our Capital Improvement Plan. We lobbied MSBA when they did school visits in 2010 saying Angier was our top priority. They made the decision. Technically Newton doesn’t have a say. Pragmatically, local officials lobbying for one bad school over another makes a difference. Cabot had worse scores from the evaluation, we advocated for Angier instead.
@Fig
At the end of the day, you acknowledged that some villages are “more equal.” I raised the Cabot situation to make that point. I’m not comfortable with only at-large representation when we have a city that has a long history of “more equal.” That was my point.
@Jane
“At this point…” yes, that’s right. But you’re leaving out important facts.
We named Angier first in our Capital Improvement Plan. We lobbied MSBA when they did school visits in 2010 saying Angier was our top priority. They made the decision. Technically Newton doesn’t have a say. Pragmatically, local officials lobbying for one bad school over another makes a difference. Cabot had worse scores from the evaluation, we advocated for Angier instead.
@Fig
At the end of the day, you acknowledged that some villages are “more equal.” I raised the Cabot situation to make that point. I’m not comfortable with only at-large representation when we have a city that has a long history of “more equal.” That was my point.
I am beyond upset that Newton put Zervas first. The reason was to increase capacity . . . . however capacity has been an issue for YEARS. Why now????? And Cabot’s building is far worse than the old Zervas. Of course, I elected city officials to make the best decisions, and now I am not feeling as confident as I was in the people that I elected. Zervas wasn’t an ideal school, however Cabot’s building as a public elementary school is NOT functional for current students.
I am NOT a Newtonville resident, but I believe Cabot should been replaced before Zervas, and the City of Newton should build a new building and not renovate a building that Newton said was NOT functional. By not starting from scratch, you still have to figure out how to use today’s technology in a building that was designed and built nearly 100 years ago.
From my perspective, it will be another 100 years until Angier and Cabot will be redesigned, and lets give Newtonville what Waban has – a brand new school for students and teachers and the community.
I am beyond upset that Newton put Zervas first. The reason was to increase capacity . . . . however capacity has been an issue for YEARS. Why now????? And Cabot’s building is far worse than the old Zervas. Of course, I elected city officials to make the best decisions, and now I am not feeling as confident as I was in the people that I elected. Zervas wasn’t an ideal school, however Cabot’s building as a public elementary school is NOT functional for current students.
I am NOT a Newtonville resident, but I believe Cabot should been replaced before Zervas, and the City of Newton should build a new building and not renovate a building that Newton said was NOT functional. By not starting from scratch, you still have to figure out how to use today’s technology in a building that was designed and built nearly 100 years ago.
From my perspective, it will be another 100 years until Angier and Cabot will be redesigned, and lets give Newtonville what Waban has – a brand new school for students and teachers and the community.
Paul-I am very invested in Cabot School. My kids went there and I know that their elementary school experience was compromised due to the terrible facility, but even I would have to admit that Angier was worse as an educational institution than Cabot.
After living in N’ville for 25 years, in A’dale for 1 and having a very close association with the community (in many ways I consider A’dale to be “my village”, and now live in Waban, I see differences but one is not better than the other.
Paul-I am very invested in Cabot School. My kids went there and I know that their elementary school experience was compromised due to the terrible facility, but even I would have to admit that Angier was worse as an educational institution than Cabot.
After living in N’ville for 25 years, in A’dale for 1 and having a very close association with the community (in many ways I consider A’dale to be “my village”, and now live in Waban, I see differences but one is not better than the other.
Jane and the three Newtonville Councilors: Please elaborate regarding another plan being put forth. I can certainly tell you how angry parents will be if the school repair timeframe isn’t kept. Accountability indeed.
Can anyone shed some light on this? Perhaps I’m out of the loop, I had thought that we were getting close to the design finish line. What is the issue the architects want to address?
Jane and the three Newtonville Councilors: Please elaborate regarding another plan being put forth. I can certainly tell you how angry parents will be if the school repair timeframe isn’t kept. Accountability indeed.
Can anyone shed some light on this? Perhaps I’m out of the loop, I had thought that we were getting close to the design finish line. What is the issue the architects want to address?
I’m posting this on behalf of the 3 Ward 2 Councilors in regard to the Cabot School Project:
The Cabot School Building Committee voted last May to preserve the Cabot School, a landmark in the neighborhood and the city. As site planning continued, there were protracted deliberations over parking in Cabot Park and the circulation pattern for drop-off and pick-up. The intensity of these debates kept submerged the issue of the gym, which was sited as an appendage that obscured the historic facade of the school.
The purchase of 23 Parkview in February should have allowed the gym issue to surface. A strong case has been made to the three of us in the Ward that the gym might now be moved to an aesthetically and programmatically optimal site, one that is more energy efficient and that preserves the Cabot facade. We should at least explore if that is possible We expect the new Cabot School to be there as long as the old one – nearly 90 years.
There are at least three potential roadblocks for the planning process ahead of us: the Newton Historic Commission, the City Council site-plan review, and the Massachusetts Historic Commission review. It makes sense to pause now and assess the viability of this new concept, instead of risking disruption later. Whatever is decided, the school will be state of the art and Parkview will be permanently closed.
It is unfortunate that we didn’t have 23 Parkview sooner in the process. But we have it now. We will soon know what is possible. Let’s not regret a missed opportunity for the next 90 years.
I’m posting this on behalf of the 3 Ward 2 Councilors in regard to the Cabot School Project:
The Cabot School Building Committee voted last May to preserve the Cabot School, a landmark in the neighborhood and the city. As site planning continued, there were protracted deliberations over parking in Cabot Park and the circulation pattern for drop-off and pick-up. The intensity of these debates kept submerged the issue of the gym, which was sited as an appendage that obscured the historic facade of the school.
The purchase of 23 Parkview in February should have allowed the gym issue to surface. A strong case has been made to the three of us in the Ward that the gym might now be moved to an aesthetically and programmatically optimal site, one that is more energy efficient and that preserves the Cabot facade. We should at least explore if that is possible We expect the new Cabot School to be there as long as the old one – nearly 90 years.
There are at least three potential roadblocks for the planning process ahead of us: the Newton Historic Commission, the City Council site-plan review, and the Massachusetts Historic Commission review. It makes sense to pause now and assess the viability of this new concept, instead of risking disruption later. Whatever is decided, the school will be state of the art and Parkview will be permanently closed.
It is unfortunate that we didn’t have 23 Parkview sooner in the process. But we have it now. We will soon know what is possible. Let’s not regret a missed opportunity for the next 90 years.
@Susan
Are you suggesting there is a possibility we could miss the MSBA deadline as Jane suggested upthread?
@Susan
Are you suggesting there is a possibility we could miss the MSBA deadline as Jane suggested upthread?
My concern here is that we don’t build in roadblocks to getting Canot done on budget and on time. Particularly since Zervas getting ahead of Cabot has already created a delay.
My concern here is that we don’t build in roadblocks to getting Canot done on budget and on time. Particularly since Zervas getting ahead of Cabot has already created a delay.
There is a definite possibility of losing the MSBA funding if the proposal isn’t finalized very soon. The architects who are proposing the new plan are well meaning, very nice people whom I have spoken to but have never designed a school building before. They appear to me to be considering the outside facade at the expense of creating a building that’s in keeping with the best practices of the educational specifications on the inside. They also think they can redo the Cabot proposal in two weeks.
There is a definite possibility of losing the MSBA funding if the proposal isn’t finalized very soon. The architects who are proposing the new plan are well meaning, very nice people whom I have spoken to but have never designed a school building before. They appear to me to be considering the outside facade at the expense of creating a building that’s in keeping with the best practices of the educational specifications on the inside. They also think they can redo the Cabot proposal in two weeks.
In regards to Zervas, the increased school size is going to alleviate overcrowding in the Newton Centre/Highlands area. The schools in that area have been overcrowded and have been the largest schools in the city hovering around 500 kids for at least the last four or 5 years. It started with Countryside being around 500 then they used buffer zones to move kids to Bowen then after that they used buffer zones to move kids to Mason-Rice which is now at @490 kids. Basically shifting the problem from one school to another. MR got modulars as a result of the override which was much needed space but they still only have 22 classrooms one of which was supposed to be used for other purposes (due to its small size it can only legally hold 19 or 20 pupils) was put back into use as a classroom when buffer zones needed to be used to alleviate Bowen’s overcrowding. To me who was paying detailed attention to the school numbers during this period it was not surprising that Zervas got placed ahead of Cabot. I saw the potential to run out of space among the Newton centre area schools and the City had indicated they were moving away from modulars.
In regards to Angier my memory is that the new school only increased capacity moderately and that most of the space was to bring them up to the school standards of today. After that project was underway I believe that they learned some things and then decided that the 24 classroom (4 classes at each grade) should be the new standard.. Then they started talking about how big school size wasn’t that big of a deal and publicly the Zervas project changed. I’m a bit removed from the nitty gritty these days so thought processes may have changed in the last 2 years. I think Aquinas is going to be great for the North side.
It’s interesting that there are feelings of Newtonville being a less favored child. The kids are always talking about how great North is and bragging if that is where their school feeds to. Sort of ironic that the debacle of North led to the elementary school buildings being severely neglected. I hope that you end up with a wonderful new Cabot.
In regards to Zervas, the increased school size is going to alleviate overcrowding in the Newton Centre/Highlands area. The schools in that area have been overcrowded and have been the largest schools in the city hovering around 500 kids for at least the last four or 5 years. It started with Countryside being around 500 then they used buffer zones to move kids to Bowen then after that they used buffer zones to move kids to Mason-Rice which is now at @490 kids. Basically shifting the problem from one school to another. MR got modulars as a result of the override which was much needed space but they still only have 22 classrooms one of which was supposed to be used for other purposes (due to its small size it can only legally hold 19 or 20 pupils) was put back into use as a classroom when buffer zones needed to be used to alleviate Bowen’s overcrowding. To me who was paying detailed attention to the school numbers during this period it was not surprising that Zervas got placed ahead of Cabot. I saw the potential to run out of space among the Newton centre area schools and the City had indicated they were moving away from modulars.
In regards to Angier my memory is that the new school only increased capacity moderately and that most of the space was to bring them up to the school standards of today. After that project was underway I believe that they learned some things and then decided that the 24 classroom (4 classes at each grade) should be the new standard.. Then they started talking about how big school size wasn’t that big of a deal and publicly the Zervas project changed. I’m a bit removed from the nitty gritty these days so thought processes may have changed in the last 2 years. I think Aquinas is going to be great for the North side.
It’s interesting that there are feelings of Newtonville being a less favored child. The kids are always talking about how great North is and bragging if that is where their school feeds to. Sort of ironic that the debacle of North led to the elementary school buildings being severely neglected. I hope that you end up with a wonderful new Cabot.
I cannot possibly speak for the MSBA. The research is being done now to determine if a pause is possible and we will know soon.
I cannot possibly speak for the MSBA. The research is being done now to determine if a pause is possible and we will know soon.
The value of this proposed “pause” needs to be great in order to justify slowing down the project.
Delays cost time and money, both of which are important with Cabot.
The value of this proposed “pause” needs to be great in order to justify slowing down the project.
Delays cost time and money, both of which are important with Cabot.
At the Newtonville Area Council meeting, the architect said the delay would not affect the MSBA funding. After the meeting, I asked him where he got his information and he said the Ward 2 Councilors.
At the Newtonville Area Council meeting, the architect said the delay would not affect the MSBA funding. After the meeting, I asked him where he got his information and he said the Ward 2 Councilors.
Jane – he did not say that. He spoke to someone in the Ward who knows the MSBA well. None of us can speak for the MSBA – not you and not I. Why don’t we find out from the MSBA instead of second guessing.
Jane – he did not say that. He spoke to someone in the Ward who knows the MSBA well. None of us can speak for the MSBA – not you and not I. Why don’t we find out from the MSBA instead of second guessing.
I asked him the question after the meeting and that was his answer.
I asked him the question after the meeting and that was his answer.
Susan,
To clarify:
We are asking the MSBA if we can “pause” before submitting our proposal?
Who is asking? Did the CSBC approve this request? When did that happen? What was the vote?
I’m reasonably informed– why haven’t I heard about this? Where was this communicated to the public?
PS If Jake and Emily are involved, their input here would be appreciated as well.
Susan,
To clarify:
We are asking the MSBA if we can “pause” before submitting our proposal?
Who is asking? Did the CSBC approve this request? When did that happen? What was the vote?
I’m reasonably informed– why haven’t I heard about this? Where was this communicated to the public?
PS If Jake and Emily are involved, their input here would be appreciated as well.
While I respect the active discussion of the overdue Cabot School renovation project, I am deeply disappointed that a few of our local councilors would entertain the idea of delays that may jeopardize state funding and negatively impact our children.
The local resident / “architect” folks who seem to have been most vocal regarding 11th hour “alternative” plans have had ample chance to share their ideas throughout the 2 year open design process – we’ve heard from them several times already at open meetings. The opposition to this project, at least partially from close abutters, appears to have rebranded itself several times – from concerns over closing Parkview drive to concerns about parking/traffic to the latest concerns about aesthetics. Bottom line is that some folks just don’t like change. However, investing in our schools is what will keep Newton a vibrant community attracting new families, maintaining property values, and encouraging additional investment in our local villages.
The project architects (DiNisco Design) have a fantastic track record of building elegant elementary and secondary schools using modern design elements. Have a look at the recently completed Angier School as a prime example. Their website is here: http://www.dinisco.com
Anything that delays or in any way jeopardizes the current plan for Cabot’s desperately needed replacement is a great disservice to our community that voters will remember for many years to come.
Current and past Cabot School designs can be found here:
http://cabot.projects.nv5.com/presentations/
Project news and ways to support the renovation can be found here:
https://safenewcabot.wordpress.com
Please be sure to email/call/tell your councillors to support the timely advancement of this project.
While I respect the active discussion of the overdue Cabot School renovation project, I am deeply disappointed that a few of our local councilors would entertain the idea of delays that may jeopardize state funding and negatively impact our children.
The local resident / “architect” folks who seem to have been most vocal regarding 11th hour “alternative” plans have had ample chance to share their ideas throughout the 2 year open design process – we’ve heard from them several times already at open meetings. The opposition to this project, at least partially from close abutters, appears to have rebranded itself several times – from concerns over closing Parkview drive to concerns about parking/traffic to the latest concerns about aesthetics. Bottom line is that some folks just don’t like change. However, investing in our schools is what will keep Newton a vibrant community attracting new families, maintaining property values, and encouraging additional investment in our local villages.
The project architects (DiNisco Design) have a fantastic track record of building elegant elementary and secondary schools using modern design elements. Have a look at the recently completed Angier School as a prime example. Their website is here: http://www.dinisco.com
Anything that delays or in any way jeopardizes the current plan for Cabot’s desperately needed replacement is a great disservice to our community that voters will remember for many years to come.
Current and past Cabot School designs can be found here:
http://cabot.projects.nv5.com/presentations/
Project news and ways to support the renovation can be found here:
https://safenewcabot.wordpress.com
Please be sure to email/call/tell your councillors to support the timely advancement of this project.
Susan (and hopefully Emily and Jake):
First of all, thank you for getting on this blog and responding. Always great when you/Emily/Jake respond to community concerns.
I do have to say I’m very concerned though. My main focus lately has been on the street closure/connection to the park. I had assumed that absent the discussion regarding the orientation of the gym to Cabot Street, the “design” of the building was finished. So much of this thread is upsetting and frustrating.
We’ve been talking about rehabbing Cabot for at least 4 years. There has been ample time for plans, for coordinating between departments, for specifications to be drawn up and for bids to go out. At some point we need to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. It is also frustrating to hear about these potential changes on the blog, and not directly via any of the ward/at-large councilors. Cabot is one of the focal points in Ward 2. Village first, then elementary schools. I would think this construction would be one of your largest concerns. It certainly is a huge concern for the hundreds of parents who have been discussing it weekly when we pick up our kids, on playdates, at PTO meetings, etc.
And so I’m very concerned. I’m concerned that the opposition to certain aspects of the school are using this new process. I’m concerned that folks who don’t usually do construction or rehab are suddenly changing things close to the end, don’t understand what that actually means in the real world of construction, and that the process will either need to be rushed or that the entire building will be delayed. I’m concerned that Cabot was pushed to the back of the three school construction schedule, and that one of the main reasons given was that Cabot couldn’t be ready in time, that more time was needed to get all the plans and various ducks in a row. And yet here we are years later. Can’t the city council, the city, and the school committee focus on more than one school at a time? Angier looks amazing. Can’t we do the same for Cabot? The ducks don’t seem to be in a row…
So here are some concrete questions I’d appreciate you (or Emily or Jake, since all three of you should have the guts to speak up directly on an issue as important as this) answering:
1) What exactly is the new proposal? What is the goal? To move the gym?
2) Has a site plan been prepared that shows the new proposal?
3) You mentioned that the home purchase near the school increased the options for siting the new parks of the project. How does this new configuration mesh with the traffic plan being sent to parents by the PTO?
4) Can you confirm that the road between Cabot School and Cabot Park will be closed no matter what?
5) How does this new plan impact parking on the site?
6) You said the following: “There are at least three potential roadblocks for the planning process ahead of us: the Newton Historic Commission, the City Council site-plan review, and the Massachusetts Historic Commission review. ” With all due respect, you describe these as “roadblocks”?!?!?
HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW WHERE YOU STAND WITH ALL THREE? Any non-governmental construction project of any size would have a historic consultant to work with the Newton Historic Commission, and lines of communication and a constant back and forth would be informing the planning process. Regarding City Council site plan review, THAT is the three of you. I can’t believe that if the three ward city councilors approve a project that your fellow CC members would oppose it. Do you three oppose it? If so, forthrightness is virtue. State it now.
7) Regarding your above mention of the Massachusetts Historic Commission, are you talking a 106 review or something else? Has no one gone to the Massachusetts Historic Commission yet to get a take on the plans? I’m suddenly very concerned folks have been operating in a vacuum with the MHC, which is a very foolish way to deal with that aspect of State oversight.
8) Would a 1 year delay in the project be an acceptable loss to “get the project right”? None of the parents would think so, but I’d like to know your thoughts?
9) Would loss of MSBA funding kill the project? Delay the project? If you don’t know, shouldn’t the risk of delay/death of the new Cabot outweigh the potential “improvement”. Also, you really should know.
I’ll be forwarding your responses (or lack thereof) to the PTO and a few others who care about the new school.
I agree with Emily’s Dad post, but let me be a bit blunter. We shouldn’t have to come to you on something this important. Answer these questions please.
Susan (and hopefully Emily and Jake):
First of all, thank you for getting on this blog and responding. Always great when you/Emily/Jake respond to community concerns.
I do have to say I’m very concerned though. My main focus lately has been on the street closure/connection to the park. I had assumed that absent the discussion regarding the orientation of the gym to Cabot Street, the “design” of the building was finished. So much of this thread is upsetting and frustrating.
We’ve been talking about rehabbing Cabot for at least 4 years. There has been ample time for plans, for coordinating between departments, for specifications to be drawn up and for bids to go out. At some point we need to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. It is also frustrating to hear about these potential changes on the blog, and not directly via any of the ward/at-large councilors. Cabot is one of the focal points in Ward 2. Village first, then elementary schools. I would think this construction would be one of your largest concerns. It certainly is a huge concern for the hundreds of parents who have been discussing it weekly when we pick up our kids, on playdates, at PTO meetings, etc.
And so I’m very concerned. I’m concerned that the opposition to certain aspects of the school are using this new process. I’m concerned that folks who don’t usually do construction or rehab are suddenly changing things close to the end, don’t understand what that actually means in the real world of construction, and that the process will either need to be rushed or that the entire building will be delayed. I’m concerned that Cabot was pushed to the back of the three school construction schedule, and that one of the main reasons given was that Cabot couldn’t be ready in time, that more time was needed to get all the plans and various ducks in a row. And yet here we are years later. Can’t the city council, the city, and the school committee focus on more than one school at a time? Angier looks amazing. Can’t we do the same for Cabot? The ducks don’t seem to be in a row…
So here are some concrete questions I’d appreciate you (or Emily or Jake, since all three of you should have the guts to speak up directly on an issue as important as this) answering:
1) What exactly is the new proposal? What is the goal? To move the gym?
2) Has a site plan been prepared that shows the new proposal?
3) You mentioned that the home purchase near the school increased the options for siting the new parks of the project. How does this new configuration mesh with the traffic plan being sent to parents by the PTO?
4) Can you confirm that the road between Cabot School and Cabot Park will be closed no matter what?
5) How does this new plan impact parking on the site?
6) You said the following: “There are at least three potential roadblocks for the planning process ahead of us: the Newton Historic Commission, the City Council site-plan review, and the Massachusetts Historic Commission review. ” With all due respect, you describe these as “roadblocks”?!?!?
HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW WHERE YOU STAND WITH ALL THREE? Any non-governmental construction project of any size would have a historic consultant to work with the Newton Historic Commission, and lines of communication and a constant back and forth would be informing the planning process. Regarding City Council site plan review, THAT is the three of you. I can’t believe that if the three ward city councilors approve a project that your fellow CC members would oppose it. Do you three oppose it? If so, forthrightness is virtue. State it now.
7) Regarding your above mention of the Massachusetts Historic Commission, are you talking a 106 review or something else? Has no one gone to the Massachusetts Historic Commission yet to get a take on the plans? I’m suddenly very concerned folks have been operating in a vacuum with the MHC, which is a very foolish way to deal with that aspect of State oversight.
8) Would a 1 year delay in the project be an acceptable loss to “get the project right”? None of the parents would think so, but I’d like to know your thoughts?
9) Would loss of MSBA funding kill the project? Delay the project? If you don’t know, shouldn’t the risk of delay/death of the new Cabot outweigh the potential “improvement”. Also, you really should know.
I’ll be forwarding your responses (or lack thereof) to the PTO and a few others who care about the new school.
I agree with Emily’s Dad post, but let me be a bit blunter. We shouldn’t have to come to you on something this important. Answer these questions please.
@Fignewtonville: The acquisition of the Potter property in February made a new, and better, design possible. I think it makes sense to explore that. It would have been great if we had been able to acquire the property 6 months previously but we are extremely fortunate to have it now. We don’t know what this means it turns of delay but we will find out soon. It is normal for there to be twists and turns in huge building projects, particularly when you have such a tightly constrained site. We sorted out what to do with Parkview (the stretch in front of the school will be closed), we sorted out what to do with the park (it will not have a parking lot installed within it), we sorted out the traffic circulation with the addition of Potter Drive, now we are sorting out the gym placement.
Re the condition of Cabot, here is the link to the 2010 MSBA Needs Survey.
Schools were ranked from 1-4, with 1 being the best, 4 being the worst.
4 means “in poor condition.”
Cabot received a 3, which means “may require a moderate to extensive renovation to address the physical deficiencies.”
@Fignewtonville: The acquisition of the Potter property in February made a new, and better, design possible. I think it makes sense to explore that. It would have been great if we had been able to acquire the property 6 months previously but we are extremely fortunate to have it now. We don’t know what this means it turns of delay but we will find out soon. It is normal for there to be twists and turns in huge building projects, particularly when you have such a tightly constrained site. We sorted out what to do with Parkview (the stretch in front of the school will be closed), we sorted out what to do with the park (it will not have a parking lot installed within it), we sorted out the traffic circulation with the addition of Potter Drive, now we are sorting out the gym placement.
Re the condition of Cabot, here is the link to the 2010 MSBA Needs Survey.
Schools were ranked from 1-4, with 1 being the best, 4 being the worst.
4 means “in poor condition.”
Cabot received a 3, which means “may require a moderate to extensive renovation to address the physical deficiencies.”
@Emily
The general environment rating for Cabot was a 4. Along with the building condition of 3. It is one of the worst combined scores in the state.
I would appreciate an answer on how it was authorized to ask the MSBA about a potential delay and consider a change in plan this late in the game. Did the CSBC approve this request? Who was authorized to consider a change in proposal? We have an CSBC-approved plan.
@Emily
The general environment rating for Cabot was a 4. Along with the building condition of 3. It is one of the worst combined scores in the state.
I would appreciate an answer on how it was authorized to ask the MSBA about a potential delay and consider a change in plan this late in the game. Did the CSBC approve this request? Who was authorized to consider a change in proposal? We have an CSBC-approved plan.
All I know is if the Cabot project comes in late and or over budget because of this “pause” we will know who to fault.
Whoever has overall project responsibility should be making that call as to a “pause.”
All I know is if the Cabot project comes in late and or over budget because of this “pause” we will know who to fault.
Whoever has overall project responsibility should be making that call as to a “pause.”
The School Committee is presented with a Facilities Update on the status of Angier, Zervas, Cabot, Aquinas, Lincoln-Eliot, and short-term space. You can read the most recent document to learn what is happening. http://www.newton.k12.ma.us/cms/lib8/MA01907692/Centricity/Domain/69/Facilities%20Update%203_14_16_FINAL.pdf
Also the Cabot School Building Committee and the Design Review Committee meet frequently and publish their agenda and minutes. From what I read, the MSBA deadline is May 25, 2016. That is 5 1/2 weeks from now.
Here are the most recent minutes: http://cabot.projects.nv5.com/download/meeting_minutes%20Cabot/2016-03-17-CSBC-and-DRC-Meeting-Minutes-APPROVED.pdf
and here is the most current presentation from the April 5th meeting:
http://cabot.projects.nv5.com/download/presentations%20cabot/2016-04-05-CSBC-and-DRC-Meeting-Presentation.pdf
There are many slides and viewings from different angles of the gym, and the entire property. While it’s valuable to have a discussion on Village 14, the answers to some of the questions can be found in the above documents.
The School Committee is presented with a Facilities Update on the status of Angier, Zervas, Cabot, Aquinas, Lincoln-Eliot, and short-term space. You can read the most recent document to learn what is happening. http://www.newton.k12.ma.us/cms/lib8/MA01907692/Centricity/Domain/69/Facilities%20Update%203_14_16_FINAL.pdf
Also the Cabot School Building Committee and the Design Review Committee meet frequently and publish their agenda and minutes. From what I read, the MSBA deadline is May 25, 2016. That is 5 1/2 weeks from now.
Here are the most recent minutes: http://cabot.projects.nv5.com/download/meeting_minutes%20Cabot/2016-03-17-CSBC-and-DRC-Meeting-Minutes-APPROVED.pdf
and here is the most current presentation from the April 5th meeting:
http://cabot.projects.nv5.com/download/presentations%20cabot/2016-04-05-CSBC-and-DRC-Meeting-Presentation.pdf
There are many slides and viewings from different angles of the gym, and the entire property. While it’s valuable to have a discussion on Village 14, the answers to some of the questions can be found in the above documents.
I’m glad that the Ward 2 councilors are paying attention to the aesthetics of the Cabot School. This school will be around for another 90 years, and we ought to get it right.
I wonder, would they also support those “ugly carports” at the Cabot School? 😉
I’m glad that the Ward 2 councilors are paying attention to the aesthetics of the Cabot School. This school will be around for another 90 years, and we ought to get it right.
I wonder, would they also support those “ugly carports” at the Cabot School? 😉
I find the solar carports quite beautiful actually – they represent clean renewable energy. Much more attractive than a strip mine, coal plant, or fracked gas pipeline.
I find the solar carports quite beautiful actually – they represent clean renewable energy. Much more attractive than a strip mine, coal plant, or fracked gas pipeline.
Emily, are you willing to cut down some trees and put them over the parking spaces at Cabot? Or how about not planting trees in the future Zervas parking lot (I visited the site this week and there is one lonely birch tree left after the site was cleared).
Emily, are you willing to cut down some trees and put them over the parking spaces at Cabot? Or how about not planting trees in the future Zervas parking lot (I visited the site this week and there is one lonely birch tree left after the site was cleared).
“DDP noted that the closer the gym moves to Cabot Street, there is more limitation for emergency egress as well as connection to the lobby. The Cabot School principal also noted that the closer the gym moves to Cabot Street, the less the program works internally. It is foreseen that the gym will be used throughout the day. NPB noted that moving the gym too close to Cabot could be an issue for the houses on Cabot, near Bridges.”
This seems to me to solve the location of the gym. In the current plan, the program works better internally and has better emergency egress. The Newton Historic Commission said they wouldn’t pick one location over another so how is that a roadblock.
This reminds me of the last minute new proposal for Zervas from community architects. It seems unreasonable to hold up approval for an arbitrary view of the old section of Cabot School from Cabot Park rather than Cabot street. Just be happy the building is being preserved and stop quibbling over who gets the best view. Keep the process moving.
“DDP noted that the closer the gym moves to Cabot Street, there is more limitation for emergency egress as well as connection to the lobby. The Cabot School principal also noted that the closer the gym moves to Cabot Street, the less the program works internally. It is foreseen that the gym will be used throughout the day. NPB noted that moving the gym too close to Cabot could be an issue for the houses on Cabot, near Bridges.”
This seems to me to solve the location of the gym. In the current plan, the program works better internally and has better emergency egress. The Newton Historic Commission said they wouldn’t pick one location over another so how is that a roadblock.
This reminds me of the last minute new proposal for Zervas from community architects. It seems unreasonable to hold up approval for an arbitrary view of the old section of Cabot School from Cabot Park rather than Cabot street. Just be happy the building is being preserved and stop quibbling over who gets the best view. Keep the process moving.
So what we are talking about is the siting of the gym? That’s the ball of wax? Perhaps I misunderstood the severity of the issue here. Or alternatively, if this causes a year long delay, perhaps those asking for this change underestimate the anger of the Cabot community.
By the way, I visited Angier a few days back. Amazing. Really great job. And my kids LOVE the playground. I’m hoping a similarly designed roomy and inventive playspace is on deck for Cabot.
I am willing to keep the faith that the city and the school committee and the various disconnected boards (NHC, P&R, SC, CC, MHC, MSBA) will pull together rather than pull apart. But I’m really hoping faith is rewarded here. I can tell you from personal experience what a horrible built environment Cabot is, and how it really does effect our kids, both health wise and learning wise. Teachers are more important obviously, but the building matters.
Btw, while I appreciate the back and forth regarding solar car ports, and while I appreciate Ted and Emily for their dedication to their respective issues (and their ability to bring the snark when they wish to), please don’t be offended when I ask you to shut up and focus on the issue at hand. The solar discussion is a few posts down…
So what we are talking about is the siting of the gym? That’s the ball of wax? Perhaps I misunderstood the severity of the issue here. Or alternatively, if this causes a year long delay, perhaps those asking for this change underestimate the anger of the Cabot community.
By the way, I visited Angier a few days back. Amazing. Really great job. And my kids LOVE the playground. I’m hoping a similarly designed roomy and inventive playspace is on deck for Cabot.
I am willing to keep the faith that the city and the school committee and the various disconnected boards (NHC, P&R, SC, CC, MHC, MSBA) will pull together rather than pull apart. But I’m really hoping faith is rewarded here. I can tell you from personal experience what a horrible built environment Cabot is, and how it really does effect our kids, both health wise and learning wise. Teachers are more important obviously, but the building matters.
Btw, while I appreciate the back and forth regarding solar car ports, and while I appreciate Ted and Emily for their dedication to their respective issues (and their ability to bring the snark when they wish to), please don’t be offended when I ask you to shut up and focus on the issue at hand. The solar discussion is a few posts down…
Why is everyone in such a rush to settle on a plan that almost completely obscures the view of the original Cabot School with an unsightly gymnasium? This school is being designed to last for the next 80-100 years not just for 2018.
Let’s build a great school while respecting the historic building we have now. And also let’s remember that the Cabot community is getting a new school which many other school districts in the city would love to have.
Be patient. Respect other’s opinions. This school is being built with money from all Newton taxpayers not just current Cabot parents. We all want a great school. Thank you.
Why is everyone in such a rush to settle on a plan that almost completely obscures the view of the original Cabot School with an unsightly gymnasium? This school is being designed to last for the next 80-100 years not just for 2018.
Let’s build a great school while respecting the historic building we have now. And also let’s remember that the Cabot community is getting a new school which many other school districts in the city would love to have.
Be patient. Respect other’s opinions. This school is being built with money from all Newton taxpayers not just current Cabot parents. We all want a great school. Thank you.
@Ted as you may recall, I voted against buying the homes to tear them down and build a parking lot in the first place, so if we’d gone that route the trees would still be standing.
@Fig not at all offended when you tell me to “shut up,” really one of the most delightful parts of this job. We have no details at all about the length of the delay or if there will even be a delay, so maybe if no one is responding to your comments it’s because we’d rather wait till we have more information, which will be in the next few days. Have a wonderful night.
@Ted as you may recall, I voted against buying the homes to tear them down and build a parking lot in the first place, so if we’d gone that route the trees would still be standing.
@Fig not at all offended when you tell me to “shut up,” really one of the most delightful parts of this job. We have no details at all about the length of the delay or if there will even be a delay, so maybe if no one is responding to your comments it’s because we’d rather wait till we have more information, which will be in the next few days. Have a wonderful night.
@arthur
If we can improve the design within the timeline, that’s great. If not, its been two years of planning, that’s far from being in a rush.
A child was grazed by a car last month, because we have a ROAD going down the middle of their outdoor playspace.
The safety of our children should not be compromised any further because people are concerned about a view.
@arthur
If we can improve the design within the timeline, that’s great. If not, its been two years of planning, that’s far from being in a rush.
A child was grazed by a car last month, because we have a ROAD going down the middle of their outdoor playspace.
The safety of our children should not be compromised any further because people are concerned about a view.
@ Emily
Still waiting for an answer. You’re typically not the type that avoids questions– surprised to see that from you.
@ Emily
Still waiting for an answer. You’re typically not the type that avoids questions– surprised to see that from you.
Marti, you wrote: “This reminds me of the last minute new proposal for Zervas from community architects.” What was the last minute new proposal? Thanks.
Marti, you wrote: “This reminds me of the last minute new proposal for Zervas from community architects.” What was the last minute new proposal? Thanks.
Zervas Plan B
http://village14.com/files/2014/09/NHNAC-ZWG-Zervas-Plan-B2014-08-31.pdf
Zervas Plan B
http://village14.com/files/2014/09/NHNAC-ZWG-Zervas-Plan-B2014-08-31.pdf
The design has been studied and opinions have been respected for the last two years. The approved site plan wasn’t just pulled out of thin air or picked because of any view of the old building over another. As I said above it has been selected for the best internal educational functioning primarily. It was developed in conjunction with designers who specialize in how elementary schools work not residents who spend time in Cabot Park and want the best view of the old building.
The old building is being saved so it is being shown respect.
The design has been studied and opinions have been respected for the last two years. The approved site plan wasn’t just pulled out of thin air or picked because of any view of the old building over another. As I said above it has been selected for the best internal educational functioning primarily. It was developed in conjunction with designers who specialize in how elementary schools work not residents who spend time in Cabot Park and want the best view of the old building.
The old building is being saved so it is being shown respect.
Sorry Paul what is your question?
Sorry Paul what is your question?
Emily:
I said the following:
“Btw, while I appreciate the back and forth regarding solar car ports, and while I appreciate Ted and Emily for their dedication to their respective issues (and their ability to bring the snark when they wish to), please don’t be offended when I ask you to shut up and focus on the issue at hand. The solar discussion is a few posts down…”
My apologies. My kids would make me put 5 bucks in the swear jar for using the words “shut up”, even if it was just to focus your discussion away from the councilor v. councilor spat.
I will say that I was annoyed at your and Ted’s witty back and forth regarding the solar car ports. I also don’t exactly feel like my paragraph long semi-witty retort, with my expression of appreciation of you and Ted both posting AND your dedication to your respective passion projects (in your case, solar car ports/environmental issues) was exactly the same as you being told to “shut up” completely, especially since I directed you to the many solar discussion topics a few posts below.
I’ll also note that Paul and I are both definitely NOT asking you to “shut up” about Cabot. In fact, you could have just responded to my post directly, or the posts of Paul. Or Susan could have done so. Or Jake.
It is certainly your right to focus on my poor attempt at getting you and Ted to focus…instead of the much more important issue at hand. And pardon the frustration, but the folks in the Cabot community have been told to be patient for quite some time now. There is palpable worry about new plans and requests for patience.
So again, my apologies if you were offended. It was not my intention, which I’m hoping most of this community (and you) recognizes in the light of day. I’ve got no interest in a verbal jousting match with you or Ted or anyone else that doesn’t lead anywhere. I’m sure you and Susan and Jake will continue to fight for what you think it best. I just ask that you keep my kids, and the kids of the current Cabot parents in mind, as you weigh various options. A delay has real effects. The kids know about the move, and the building is falling apart.
And I’d ask, as I’m sure others would, that you and Susan and Jake do a better job of communicating what is going on. Ward or at-large, for better or worse, you folks are all we’ve got to watch out for our interests on the CC.
Emily:
I said the following:
“Btw, while I appreciate the back and forth regarding solar car ports, and while I appreciate Ted and Emily for their dedication to their respective issues (and their ability to bring the snark when they wish to), please don’t be offended when I ask you to shut up and focus on the issue at hand. The solar discussion is a few posts down…”
My apologies. My kids would make me put 5 bucks in the swear jar for using the words “shut up”, even if it was just to focus your discussion away from the councilor v. councilor spat.
I will say that I was annoyed at your and Ted’s witty back and forth regarding the solar car ports. I also don’t exactly feel like my paragraph long semi-witty retort, with my expression of appreciation of you and Ted both posting AND your dedication to your respective passion projects (in your case, solar car ports/environmental issues) was exactly the same as you being told to “shut up” completely, especially since I directed you to the many solar discussion topics a few posts below.
I’ll also note that Paul and I are both definitely NOT asking you to “shut up” about Cabot. In fact, you could have just responded to my post directly, or the posts of Paul. Or Susan could have done so. Or Jake.
It is certainly your right to focus on my poor attempt at getting you and Ted to focus…instead of the much more important issue at hand. And pardon the frustration, but the folks in the Cabot community have been told to be patient for quite some time now. There is palpable worry about new plans and requests for patience.
So again, my apologies if you were offended. It was not my intention, which I’m hoping most of this community (and you) recognizes in the light of day. I’ve got no interest in a verbal jousting match with you or Ted or anyone else that doesn’t lead anywhere. I’m sure you and Susan and Jake will continue to fight for what you think it best. I just ask that you keep my kids, and the kids of the current Cabot parents in mind, as you weigh various options. A delay has real effects. The kids know about the move, and the building is falling apart.
And I’d ask, as I’m sure others would, that you and Susan and Jake do a better job of communicating what is going on. Ward or at-large, for better or worse, you folks are all we’ve got to watch out for our interests on the CC.
Arthur: What Paul said. I also would say that to me a huge fact is the state funding. My worry is as follows:
1) Delay causing loss of state funding, which causes massive delay in project.
2) Delay causing 1 year delay in state funding, which causes 1 year delay in project.
3) New plans are rushed, leading to changes at the last minute and unforseen issues.
I’m also having trouble connecting the historic fascade discussion with the siting of the gym. The gym is a big building. The view will be blocked from some angle. Is the concern the view from Cabot Street or Cabot Park?
This type of historic/new reconnection is always a challenge. Some buildings solve it with a glass atrium between the old and the new, but site lines are never going to be perfect. Has the Newton Historic Commission or Massachusetts Historical Commission given their thoughts yet, to the extent they are supposed to/have authority to do so? Emily/Susan/Jake, this was one of my questions above, and to some extent has direct effect on the decisions to entertain the new proposals.
Arthur: What Paul said. I also would say that to me a huge fact is the state funding. My worry is as follows:
1) Delay causing loss of state funding, which causes massive delay in project.
2) Delay causing 1 year delay in state funding, which causes 1 year delay in project.
3) New plans are rushed, leading to changes at the last minute and unforseen issues.
I’m also having trouble connecting the historic fascade discussion with the siting of the gym. The gym is a big building. The view will be blocked from some angle. Is the concern the view from Cabot Street or Cabot Park?
This type of historic/new reconnection is always a challenge. Some buildings solve it with a glass atrium between the old and the new, but site lines are never going to be perfect. Has the Newton Historic Commission or Massachusetts Historical Commission given their thoughts yet, to the extent they are supposed to/have authority to do so? Emily/Susan/Jake, this was one of my questions above, and to some extent has direct effect on the decisions to entertain the new proposals.
While apologies are being put forth, let me also roll back my comment earlier on this thread, which was “All I know is if the Cabot project comes in late and or over budget because of this “pause” we will know who to fault.” It was offered up rashly, and more harshly than I intended.
Perhaps from a slightly different perspective than fig, i see significant risks in delays on Cabot, not just time-wise but in dollars and cents too, and also in longer term effects as it relates to other schools related projects sure to come down the pike.
But my criticism of the ward 2 councilors was out of line and I’m sorry for that..
While apologies are being put forth, let me also roll back my comment earlier on this thread, which was “All I know is if the Cabot project comes in late and or over budget because of this “pause” we will know who to fault.” It was offered up rashly, and more harshly than I intended.
Perhaps from a slightly different perspective than fig, i see significant risks in delays on Cabot, not just time-wise but in dollars and cents too, and also in longer term effects as it relates to other schools related projects sure to come down the pike.
But my criticism of the ward 2 councilors was out of line and I’m sorry for that..
One factor i hadn’t considered regarding a review of the plans post the purchase of the Potter property is the probability that if this gym thing isn’t sorted out now, the city council may well insist that be done later.
One factor i hadn’t considered regarding a review of the plans post the purchase of the Potter property is the probability that if this gym thing isn’t sorted out now, the city council may well insist that be done later.
Dan, if no one can relay the timing of the MSBA funds or what happens if we lose them, how can they evaluate or insist on changes? Isn’t that the initial important step?
Local government likes to take the slow and steady approach. Generally I admire that if I feel that there is an orderly process, with someone from the city marshalling the various committees and sub-committees and state funding and the commissions, and such that any large construction process requires. But thus far I see more dysfunction than anything else.
As for your criticism of the ward 2 councilors, I think if this project gets delayed or stuck, there would be plenty of blame to spread around. But honestly I care far less about blame than I do my kids being able to learn in a environment conducive to learning, and for my kids teachers and learning specialists being able to teach outside of closets and with bathrooms that work.
Dan, if no one can relay the timing of the MSBA funds or what happens if we lose them, how can they evaluate or insist on changes? Isn’t that the initial important step?
Local government likes to take the slow and steady approach. Generally I admire that if I feel that there is an orderly process, with someone from the city marshalling the various committees and sub-committees and state funding and the commissions, and such that any large construction process requires. But thus far I see more dysfunction than anything else.
As for your criticism of the ward 2 councilors, I think if this project gets delayed or stuck, there would be plenty of blame to spread around. But honestly I care far less about blame than I do my kids being able to learn in a environment conducive to learning, and for my kids teachers and learning specialists being able to teach outside of closets and with bathrooms that work.
@fig, I’m less fearful that MSBA will cut us off than I am the delay and cost issues. I do think the city has a good relationship with MSBA, and that within pretty broad parameters they will work with us.
My most recent post, though, was more along the lines that the ward 2 councilors may be anticipating that the full board would look askance if they hadn’t run this gym issue to ground early on. That could conceivably create an even longer delay.
Though I don’t know you i’m assuming you have a greater stake in the timing than I, where my daughter is already out of the school system.
@fig, I’m less fearful that MSBA will cut us off than I am the delay and cost issues. I do think the city has a good relationship with MSBA, and that within pretty broad parameters they will work with us.
My most recent post, though, was more along the lines that the ward 2 councilors may be anticipating that the full board would look askance if they hadn’t run this gym issue to ground early on. That could conceivably create an even longer delay.
Though I don’t know you i’m assuming you have a greater stake in the timing than I, where my daughter is already out of the school system.
Cabot Elementary School – CSBC-DRC meeting April 5, 2016
MOTION: M. Albright moved, seconded by A. Steenstrup, to agree to allow the designers to move forward with the design somewhere within the 4.0 and 4.15 range of options. R. Fuller added that the plans will continue to be refined and community input will continue to be sought. Vote: 11 in favor/0 opposed/1 abstention (S. Albright).
Page 4 of 5
5. Other Business
Over the next few months, the design team will work to prepare the cost estimate set of documents which will include plans and elevations, which are required for the Schematic Design submission to the MSBA on June 7. The next CSBC/DRC meeting is scheduled for May 5 at 6:00PM.
Cabot Elementary School – CSBC-DRC meeting April 5, 2016
MOTION: M. Albright moved, seconded by A. Steenstrup, to agree to allow the designers to move forward with the design somewhere within the 4.0 and 4.15 range of options. R. Fuller added that the plans will continue to be refined and community input will continue to be sought. Vote: 11 in favor/0 opposed/1 abstention (S. Albright).
Page 4 of 5
5. Other Business
Over the next few months, the design team will work to prepare the cost estimate set of documents which will include plans and elevations, which are required for the Schematic Design submission to the MSBA on June 7. The next CSBC/DRC meeting is scheduled for May 5 at 6:00PM.
Thanks Marti, I somehow missed that.
Dan, that is actually some comfort. I’ve witnessed some very harsh decisions personally at the state level when deadlines haven’t been met, especially when the state money was oversubscribed. Our loss is another communities gain. That said, if the Schematic Design submission is actually June 7, I’m sure designs could be ready by then, but I’m not sure how they could be approved.
As for the delay, it would be a very frustrating delay if it happened. I’m going to try and study the different options tonight to see if I think the difference is worth it.
Thanks Marti, I somehow missed that.
Dan, that is actually some comfort. I’ve witnessed some very harsh decisions personally at the state level when deadlines haven’t been met, especially when the state money was oversubscribed. Our loss is another communities gain. That said, if the Schematic Design submission is actually June 7, I’m sure designs could be ready by then, but I’m not sure how they could be approved.
As for the delay, it would be a very frustrating delay if it happened. I’m going to try and study the different options tonight to see if I think the difference is worth it.
Fig-I’d refer to Marti’s post when assessing how MSBA might respond to a delay. Suppositions about how the MSBA might respond aren’t based on anything other than one person’s opinion.
Fig-I’d refer to Marti’s post when assessing how MSBA might respond to a delay. Suppositions about how the MSBA might respond aren’t based on anything other than one person’s opinion.
@Emily
It would be helpful to understand:
— What is being asked to the MSBA, and who approved the ask (i.e. CSBC? Ward 2 councilors trying to head off protests to CC on their own?)
— When we expect an answer
— When will it be clear to the community if any delay is possible
To underscore Fig’s request– we need to more communication from you, Jake, Susan and Margaret. We’re both reasonably informed, and this was news to us. As word gets out about possible delays, I can assure you the reaction will be strong and swift. Cabot parents have been patient, reasonable and generally trusting– let’s not lose that over poor communication.
@Emily
It would be helpful to understand:
— What is being asked to the MSBA, and who approved the ask (i.e. CSBC? Ward 2 councilors trying to head off protests to CC on their own?)
— When we expect an answer
— When will it be clear to the community if any delay is possible
To underscore Fig’s request– we need to more communication from you, Jake, Susan and Margaret. We’re both reasonably informed, and this was news to us. As word gets out about possible delays, I can assure you the reaction will be strong and swift. Cabot parents have been patient, reasonable and generally trusting– let’s not lose that over poor communication.
I agree with Paul – the communication from Jake, Susan, and Margaret regarding this issue has been lacking. I have contacted them twice regarding my concerns about the Cabot project and have received no response from any of them. I am frustrated and disappointed that my city councilors seem to be promoting the plans of a small minority of residents in the face of widespread support for the new project.
As the parent of a current student at Cabot, I am alarmed at any further delay in what has already been a very long process with many opportunities for public input. My daughter has had days in Cabot with no heat in her classroom. She often lacks the facilities/supplies for proper handwashing after using the restroom. Cabot students need to move to Carr as soon as possible. The concerns of a few residents should not trump the already-approved plans that have had a great deal of community input.
I agree with Paul – the communication from Jake, Susan, and Margaret regarding this issue has been lacking. I have contacted them twice regarding my concerns about the Cabot project and have received no response from any of them. I am frustrated and disappointed that my city councilors seem to be promoting the plans of a small minority of residents in the face of widespread support for the new project.
As the parent of a current student at Cabot, I am alarmed at any further delay in what has already been a very long process with many opportunities for public input. My daughter has had days in Cabot with no heat in her classroom. She often lacks the facilities/supplies for proper handwashing after using the restroom. Cabot students need to move to Carr as soon as possible. The concerns of a few residents should not trump the already-approved plans that have had a great deal of community input.
From reading the minutes and looking at the presentation, I think they are going forward with the gym where it was in the most recent plan (option 4) or moving it 10 ft (option 4.15) and not moving it 20 ftt, all the way to Cabot Street or turned perpendicular. Many reasons were given for sticking to the curren placement.
From my interpretation, there would be no reason to have asked for any delay from the MSBA at this point. It’s moving ahead mostly on schedule, which would mean no one would have asked or received any answers.
From reading the minutes and looking at the presentation, I think they are going forward with the gym where it was in the most recent plan (option 4) or moving it 10 ft (option 4.15) and not moving it 20 ftt, all the way to Cabot Street or turned perpendicular. Many reasons were given for sticking to the curren placement.
From my interpretation, there would be no reason to have asked for any delay from the MSBA at this point. It’s moving ahead mostly on schedule, which would mean no one would have asked or received any answers.
@fignewtonville, I understand your frustrations and concerns, and meant no disrespect by engaging in a little snarkiness with my colleague from Ward 2 about the subject of aesthetics. This is a blog, after all, and not the Council Chamber. Nevertheless, I am mindful that any further delay would be hard to take for the Cabot community, particularly after getting jumped in line by the Zervas project.
I think I know my colleagues from Ward 2 well enough to say that they would not do anything to jeopardize this project by stepping back to take another look at the site plan before the city moves forward. Like other projects, Cabot has gone through a number of iterations. The massing, location and orientation of the gym have a profound impact on the site plan. Aesthetics are important, but massing even more so, particularly in a dense residential neighborhood where a building that size abutting a park and the street could overwhelm both.
Councilors have been receiving emails from both neighbors and members of the school community, expressing different concerns but with equal passion. For whatever reason, there was relatively little controversy with the Angier design, but as many will recall, there has been more with both Zervas and Cabot. What both schools share in common is that they are adjacent to a public park and both are surrounded on three sides by a residential neighborhood comprising mostly single and two-family houses, whereas Angier is close to a village center, with a park on one side, a church on another, an intersection in front, T tracks behind, and residential neighborhood to one side.
So I am going to give my colleagues the benefit of the doubt and trust that they are trying to make this a better school and a better fit for the neighborhood. Frankly, I would rather go through all of this now than on the floor of the Council Chamber later.
@fignewtonville, I understand your frustrations and concerns, and meant no disrespect by engaging in a little snarkiness with my colleague from Ward 2 about the subject of aesthetics. This is a blog, after all, and not the Council Chamber. Nevertheless, I am mindful that any further delay would be hard to take for the Cabot community, particularly after getting jumped in line by the Zervas project.
I think I know my colleagues from Ward 2 well enough to say that they would not do anything to jeopardize this project by stepping back to take another look at the site plan before the city moves forward. Like other projects, Cabot has gone through a number of iterations. The massing, location and orientation of the gym have a profound impact on the site plan. Aesthetics are important, but massing even more so, particularly in a dense residential neighborhood where a building that size abutting a park and the street could overwhelm both.
Councilors have been receiving emails from both neighbors and members of the school community, expressing different concerns but with equal passion. For whatever reason, there was relatively little controversy with the Angier design, but as many will recall, there has been more with both Zervas and Cabot. What both schools share in common is that they are adjacent to a public park and both are surrounded on three sides by a residential neighborhood comprising mostly single and two-family houses, whereas Angier is close to a village center, with a park on one side, a church on another, an intersection in front, T tracks behind, and residential neighborhood to one side.
So I am going to give my colleagues the benefit of the doubt and trust that they are trying to make this a better school and a better fit for the neighborhood. Frankly, I would rather go through all of this now than on the floor of the Council Chamber later.
Ted:
Paul mentioned this earlier, but why did Angier not have the same historic building scrutiny as Cabot? Any historical insight? Is it just that Cabot is a more striking historic building?
I am more than willing to give the CC the benefit of the doubt. Your jobs are difficult, folks are demanding, you hear all the complaints, and the benefits are few. Rationally I understand and appreciate all that you folks do.
And also rationally, I’m very aware of the school environment my kids learn in. I know that they don’t pay attention as well in high heat or too little heat. I know what the bathrooms look like. I know that there is not enough rooms for special ed, that teacher/parent meetings during school hours aren’t done in a confidential setting, that I don’t know how kids with disabilities get from classroom to classroom, that the classrooms are dark, that my kids have hilarious stories of broken toilets, lockers, furniture, etc. Some kids rise above the built environment. They would prosper anywhere, in any school, in any building. But if you are the parent especially of a student that is struggling, or has additional needs, you begin to realize how it all meshes together: the teachers, the school, the built environment, the classrooms, the space, the playground. And you look to your neighbors in school districts that were better managed with cheaper home prices and you think to yourself… “why not here?” and then “maybe it was a mistake to educate my kids in Newton”.
But then the school is slated for rehab, and you circle a date in the calendar and say “it will be better when we get to Carr and better still when we get a new school”. And you sit patiently while 2 other schools get done, and everyone tells you to be patient, that Zervas won’t be a distraction, and Cabot won’t get postponed.
And then…maybe that’s not true. And you begin to think maybe these folks who are taking the long view, that deserve the benefit of the doubt on so many things, maybe they remember the costs associated with the delay.
Look, we are all one community. I try on most issues to see the other side. I realize there is another side here. I’ll trust that the councilors and the mayor will watch out for my community and my kids. But the siting and the issues haven’t really changed in 3 years, despite the change on the house purchase. You can’t combine historic buildings with new wings that include a gym and a library without blocking significant site views. But absent acquiring multiple homes via eminent domain a la Zervais, I’m not sure how you overcome the siting problems in a material way.
So the Cabot parents will wait and hope for the best. I sincerely hope the faith we are being asked to put in our elected officials is not misplaced.
Ted:
Paul mentioned this earlier, but why did Angier not have the same historic building scrutiny as Cabot? Any historical insight? Is it just that Cabot is a more striking historic building?
I am more than willing to give the CC the benefit of the doubt. Your jobs are difficult, folks are demanding, you hear all the complaints, and the benefits are few. Rationally I understand and appreciate all that you folks do.
And also rationally, I’m very aware of the school environment my kids learn in. I know that they don’t pay attention as well in high heat or too little heat. I know what the bathrooms look like. I know that there is not enough rooms for special ed, that teacher/parent meetings during school hours aren’t done in a confidential setting, that I don’t know how kids with disabilities get from classroom to classroom, that the classrooms are dark, that my kids have hilarious stories of broken toilets, lockers, furniture, etc. Some kids rise above the built environment. They would prosper anywhere, in any school, in any building. But if you are the parent especially of a student that is struggling, or has additional needs, you begin to realize how it all meshes together: the teachers, the school, the built environment, the classrooms, the space, the playground. And you look to your neighbors in school districts that were better managed with cheaper home prices and you think to yourself… “why not here?” and then “maybe it was a mistake to educate my kids in Newton”.
But then the school is slated for rehab, and you circle a date in the calendar and say “it will be better when we get to Carr and better still when we get a new school”. And you sit patiently while 2 other schools get done, and everyone tells you to be patient, that Zervas won’t be a distraction, and Cabot won’t get postponed.
And then…maybe that’s not true. And you begin to think maybe these folks who are taking the long view, that deserve the benefit of the doubt on so many things, maybe they remember the costs associated with the delay.
Look, we are all one community. I try on most issues to see the other side. I realize there is another side here. I’ll trust that the councilors and the mayor will watch out for my community and my kids. But the siting and the issues haven’t really changed in 3 years, despite the change on the house purchase. You can’t combine historic buildings with new wings that include a gym and a library without blocking significant site views. But absent acquiring multiple homes via eminent domain a la Zervais, I’m not sure how you overcome the siting problems in a material way.
So the Cabot parents will wait and hope for the best. I sincerely hope the faith we are being asked to put in our elected officials is not misplaced.
Well said, Fig.
Along with a continued request for greater communication and transparency from Ward 2 representatives, which for whatever reason, seems to be hard to achieve.
Susan has gone completely radiosilent, and it appears so has Emily.
We are being patient, but would like some answers.
Well said, Fig.
Along with a continued request for greater communication and transparency from Ward 2 representatives, which for whatever reason, seems to be hard to achieve.
Susan has gone completely radiosilent, and it appears so has Emily.
We are being patient, but would like some answers.
I agree with the recent posts from Fig, Paul, and Ali. I am also a Newtonville resident and parent to two young children at Cabot. It is true that we have been waiting very patiently for the new school – and listening very respectively to community input (although not necessarily agreeing).
I also agree that the poor conditions at Cabot impact my children – including broken smelly bathrooms, learning taking place in tiny closets, crowded cubbies/ lockers., etc. The playground is also tiny – and classes can only cross Parkview to use the grassy field in special circumstances. The lunchroom is tiny, crowded with no windows. An actual delay will not be acceptable at this point.
I agree with the recent posts from Fig, Paul, and Ali. I am also a Newtonville resident and parent to two young children at Cabot. It is true that we have been waiting very patiently for the new school – and listening very respectively to community input (although not necessarily agreeing).
I also agree that the poor conditions at Cabot impact my children – including broken smelly bathrooms, learning taking place in tiny closets, crowded cubbies/ lockers., etc. The playground is also tiny – and classes can only cross Parkview to use the grassy field in special circumstances. The lunchroom is tiny, crowded with no windows. An actual delay will not be acceptable at this point.
@fig, as I recall, the Newton Historic Commission voted to preserve the historic Angier school building and imposed a one-year delay to allow time to evaluate alternatives to demolition. The city ultimately decided to demolish it anyway because of the adverse impact of trying to preserve the existing building on the education program. But the Massachusetts Historic Commission did require the city to reuse historic elements of the old building in the new one. You may also recall the NHC voted to preserve Zervas as well, and imposed a one-year demolition delay. So both schools got the same scrutiny as Cabot, although the outcome was different, I think in no small part because of public affection for Humpty-Dumpty as well as the rest of the original Cabot school building.
There is no doubt in my mind that the decision to preserve the original historic Cabot school building has made the design and site plan on a very cramped site in the middle of a tight residential neighborhood much more difficult than at either Angier or Zervas. I realize that provides little solace for Cabot parents who have been waiting a long time for a healthier, roomier, safer building for their children to learn in.
I remember the extended delay in the plans to renovate/replace Newton North, which was a long haul for a lot of parents and students. It was a source of concern and irritation as Newton South was completed first while we were still having to send our kids to a school without windows in many classrooms and opaque windows in the rest of them, not to mention poor air quality and other problems, like that black whatever-it-was that formed and hung from the ceiling of the pool until it inevitably fell on someone or something. There is also the not so hilarious story of the swimming instructor contacting me one morning to complain that my eldest child’s phys ed class had to be cancelled on account of fog, which was caused by extremely cold air outside and the extreme humidity inside the pool. My eldest never set foot inside the new building while my other kids eventually spent some or all of their high school years there. So, if it is any consolation at all, I can empathize with your frustration and concern.
@fig, as I recall, the Newton Historic Commission voted to preserve the historic Angier school building and imposed a one-year delay to allow time to evaluate alternatives to demolition. The city ultimately decided to demolish it anyway because of the adverse impact of trying to preserve the existing building on the education program. But the Massachusetts Historic Commission did require the city to reuse historic elements of the old building in the new one. You may also recall the NHC voted to preserve Zervas as well, and imposed a one-year demolition delay. So both schools got the same scrutiny as Cabot, although the outcome was different, I think in no small part because of public affection for Humpty-Dumpty as well as the rest of the original Cabot school building.
There is no doubt in my mind that the decision to preserve the original historic Cabot school building has made the design and site plan on a very cramped site in the middle of a tight residential neighborhood much more difficult than at either Angier or Zervas. I realize that provides little solace for Cabot parents who have been waiting a long time for a healthier, roomier, safer building for their children to learn in.
I remember the extended delay in the plans to renovate/replace Newton North, which was a long haul for a lot of parents and students. It was a source of concern and irritation as Newton South was completed first while we were still having to send our kids to a school without windows in many classrooms and opaque windows in the rest of them, not to mention poor air quality and other problems, like that black whatever-it-was that formed and hung from the ceiling of the pool until it inevitably fell on someone or something. There is also the not so hilarious story of the swimming instructor contacting me one morning to complain that my eldest child’s phys ed class had to be cancelled on account of fog, which was caused by extremely cold air outside and the extreme humidity inside the pool. My eldest never set foot inside the new building while my other kids eventually spent some or all of their high school years there. So, if it is any consolation at all, I can empathize with your frustration and concern.
I have emailed with a number of you concerned about Cabot and I’ll reiterate a few key points here:
The purchase of 23 Parkview in February allowed for new site configurations that have only now been fully explored. We all wish 23 Parkview could have been purchased earlier to prevent what may turn out to be, candidly, partially sunk cost of time and effort under constraints that are no longer applicable. Sunk-cost bias is an affliction of all projects and elected officials have a duty to ask the inconvenient questions that prevent it from taking hold of decision-making.
Susan, Emily, and I are trying to do that by questioning whether, in light of 23 Parkview’s purchase, a new concept that places the gym on Bridges Ave is now optimal. Parkview would remain closed in perpetuity. The programmatic requirements could match or even exceed the previous version; massing, aesthetics, and energy efficiency would all be improved.
Two stakeholder meetings have been called over the past two weeks to aggregate information and opinions from members of the Design Review Committee, the administration, the School Committee, the School Department, and the consulting architect. The determination has been that this concept merits further exploration, and answers to the most important questions are being hunted down right now (hence the radio silence.)
It is highly unlikely that MSBA funding or standing would be jeopardized, but that is something that will be nailed down shortly. I won’t speak for my colleagues, but either repercussion would be a non-starter for me. The other critical question, of course, is whether the January 2019 projected entry date for students into the new Cabot would be delayed. Again, that answer is being investigated currently. Students would not have to spend any more time in old Cabot, regardless, since the Carr transfer date is independent of these developments, but I certainly appreciate how badly the neighborhood wants its new neighborhood school. We will share more information as soon as it comes in.
As Susan wrote, this new school may last a century. That timeline is important, too.
I have emailed with a number of you concerned about Cabot and I’ll reiterate a few key points here:
The purchase of 23 Parkview in February allowed for new site configurations that have only now been fully explored. We all wish 23 Parkview could have been purchased earlier to prevent what may turn out to be, candidly, partially sunk cost of time and effort under constraints that are no longer applicable. Sunk-cost bias is an affliction of all projects and elected officials have a duty to ask the inconvenient questions that prevent it from taking hold of decision-making.
Susan, Emily, and I are trying to do that by questioning whether, in light of 23 Parkview’s purchase, a new concept that places the gym on Bridges Ave is now optimal. Parkview would remain closed in perpetuity. The programmatic requirements could match or even exceed the previous version; massing, aesthetics, and energy efficiency would all be improved.
Two stakeholder meetings have been called over the past two weeks to aggregate information and opinions from members of the Design Review Committee, the administration, the School Committee, the School Department, and the consulting architect. The determination has been that this concept merits further exploration, and answers to the most important questions are being hunted down right now (hence the radio silence.)
It is highly unlikely that MSBA funding or standing would be jeopardized, but that is something that will be nailed down shortly. I won’t speak for my colleagues, but either repercussion would be a non-starter for me. The other critical question, of course, is whether the January 2019 projected entry date for students into the new Cabot would be delayed. Again, that answer is being investigated currently. Students would not have to spend any more time in old Cabot, regardless, since the Carr transfer date is independent of these developments, but I certainly appreciate how badly the neighborhood wants its new neighborhood school. We will share more information as soon as it comes in.
As Susan wrote, this new school may last a century. That timeline is important, too.
Jake – Thanks for posting. I appreciate hearing that losing funding or standing is a nonstarter for you. It would be nice to know that the other two Ward 2 Councilors are of the same mind. As you well know, approval of the funding and setting back the timeline affects not just the Cabot community, but other overcrowded and outdated northside elementary schools as well, so I hope you keep in mind that a delay will have serious citywide consequences.
The statement that this building or any other will last 100 years isn’t helpful. The decision to move this project forward shouldn’t be burdened by such thinking – imagine people in 1916 saying that a school building should be planned to last 100 years.
Jake – Thanks for posting. I appreciate hearing that losing funding or standing is a nonstarter for you. It would be nice to know that the other two Ward 2 Councilors are of the same mind. As you well know, approval of the funding and setting back the timeline affects not just the Cabot community, but other overcrowded and outdated northside elementary schools as well, so I hope you keep in mind that a delay will have serious citywide consequences.
The statement that this building or any other will last 100 years isn’t helpful. The decision to move this project forward shouldn’t be burdened by such thinking – imagine people in 1916 saying that a school building should be planned to last 100 years.
Jake
Really appreciate the post. Jane captured a number of thoughts well.
I would just add: sunk-cost bias isn’t really the issue. It more a concern of people delaying the project because of “perfect being the enemy of the good-type thinking, particularly when good is so, so much better than the abominable state Cabot is in right now.
Where I am still very upset by the many slights to Cabot stated above, the biggest is the presumption that Zervas could slot in without any impact on the Cabot timeline. It was an unrealistic timeline for the three schools to back-to-back-to-back on 18 month intervals , allowing for no delays in process. We were too cavalier in not anticipating any issues, and it so happens that it impacts that one school that was rated the worst in Newton by the MSBA. Its still odd to me how we’re in this situation. It was our worst school facility but third in line, the only one not a fully new facility and now a potential delay being discussed.
I raise that again here, because the officials that created this unrealistic plan in the first place should be working double time to figure out how to make things work without any more impact to our Cabot kids.
Jake
Really appreciate the post. Jane captured a number of thoughts well.
I would just add: sunk-cost bias isn’t really the issue. It more a concern of people delaying the project because of “perfect being the enemy of the good-type thinking, particularly when good is so, so much better than the abominable state Cabot is in right now.
Where I am still very upset by the many slights to Cabot stated above, the biggest is the presumption that Zervas could slot in without any impact on the Cabot timeline. It was an unrealistic timeline for the three schools to back-to-back-to-back on 18 month intervals , allowing for no delays in process. We were too cavalier in not anticipating any issues, and it so happens that it impacts that one school that was rated the worst in Newton by the MSBA. Its still odd to me how we’re in this situation. It was our worst school facility but third in line, the only one not a fully new facility and now a potential delay being discussed.
I raise that again here, because the officials that created this unrealistic plan in the first place should be working double time to figure out how to make things work without any more impact to our Cabot kids.
PS The radio silence is not justified. You provided some clarity, that’s all were looking for– who’s been involved, what’s the thinking, where are your red-lines, etc.
Your colleagues would do well to follow your lead.
PS The radio silence is not justified. You provided some clarity, that’s all were looking for– who’s been involved, what’s the thinking, where are your red-lines, etc.
Your colleagues would do well to follow your lead.
@Ted
“So both schools got the same scrutiny as Cabot, although the outcome was different, I think in no small part because of public affection for Humpty-Dumpty as well as the rest of the original Cabot school building.”
This is the crux of it. Its hard to understand what this really means. The outcome was different. One can claim its because the side of the ledger supporting historic preservation is stronger because of Humpty Dumpty, or one can claim that its because less weight was put on doing what’s best for Cabot kids.
I just don’t believe that if the Cabot building was in Waban we would have reached the same conclusion if Waban parents wanted a new school. And there is a long unfortunate history in this city that supports that belief.
@Ted
“So both schools got the same scrutiny as Cabot, although the outcome was different, I think in no small part because of public affection for Humpty-Dumpty as well as the rest of the original Cabot school building.”
This is the crux of it. Its hard to understand what this really means. The outcome was different. One can claim its because the side of the ledger supporting historic preservation is stronger because of Humpty Dumpty, or one can claim that its because less weight was put on doing what’s best for Cabot kids.
I just don’t believe that if the Cabot building was in Waban we would have reached the same conclusion if Waban parents wanted a new school. And there is a long unfortunate history in this city that supports that belief.
Argh – – I just wrote a long post and then Village 14 went away. I will try to recreate it.
I’m sorry I’ve been away but I’ve been a little busy so much so that I forgot until last night that I actually have to cook for Passover.
First – @Marti, if the minutes read that I made the motion at the CSBC – then the minutes are wrong. In fact – I abstained on that vote as I think someone pointed out earlier.
One of the emails the 3 Ward 2 Councilors received in the last several days was from the former Chair of the Newton Historical Commission who said that he had been pleased that one school would be saved from the wrecking ball but dismayed when he learned that the design for the add/reno placed the gym – the largest volumn massing in a such a place to obscure the historic building.
As I understand and remember the Angier project the old school would not hold the new program required by the MSBA which is why that school could not be saved. This was not the case with Cabot.
As Jake mentioned there have been meetings with the Stakeholders in the last week. No one wants to harm our relationship with the MSBA nor risk the lost of funding. What all of us want is a wonderful Cabot School which works for the kids and teachers, the community and the city. If everyone would just be patient for a bit longer we will learn soon what is and what is not possible and everyone here will be among the first to know.
Argh – – I just wrote a long post and then Village 14 went away. I will try to recreate it.
I’m sorry I’ve been away but I’ve been a little busy so much so that I forgot until last night that I actually have to cook for Passover.
First – @Marti, if the minutes read that I made the motion at the CSBC – then the minutes are wrong. In fact – I abstained on that vote as I think someone pointed out earlier.
One of the emails the 3 Ward 2 Councilors received in the last several days was from the former Chair of the Newton Historical Commission who said that he had been pleased that one school would be saved from the wrecking ball but dismayed when he learned that the design for the add/reno placed the gym – the largest volumn massing in a such a place to obscure the historic building.
As I understand and remember the Angier project the old school would not hold the new program required by the MSBA which is why that school could not be saved. This was not the case with Cabot.
As Jake mentioned there have been meetings with the Stakeholders in the last week. No one wants to harm our relationship with the MSBA nor risk the lost of funding. What all of us want is a wonderful Cabot School which works for the kids and teachers, the community and the city. If everyone would just be patient for a bit longer we will learn soon what is and what is not possible and everyone here will be among the first to know.
It’s shocking to me that Cabot families are asked to be patient yet again after several disappointments and delays. Having attended public forums on this project, I heard from numerous residents who lay special claim to our attention by distinguishing themselves as architects. Well, I’m an educator and I feel that the views of educators, specifically those who know educational requirements of elementary schools and the Cabot School community in particular, should have special weight. The city is building a SCHOOL, not a view or a museum piece. I ask that the Ward councilors take to heart the centrality of educational programming in this effort. That is what the architects have designed for, with diligent consideration of neighbors’ input throughout the process. The gym is a hot potato that no one wants in front of their home, much less Bridges Street residents (which puts the lie to the pretext of the Potter property acquisition as an argument for complete reconsideration of the whole design). Siting the gym on the park side is considerate to immediate neighbors and promotes its use as a community resource. There are lots of creative ways (trees and plantings, mural) to integrate the new structures into the landscape. It’s time to move forward with the educational program and build the new Cabot School.
It’s shocking to me that Cabot families are asked to be patient yet again after several disappointments and delays. Having attended public forums on this project, I heard from numerous residents who lay special claim to our attention by distinguishing themselves as architects. Well, I’m an educator and I feel that the views of educators, specifically those who know educational requirements of elementary schools and the Cabot School community in particular, should have special weight. The city is building a SCHOOL, not a view or a museum piece. I ask that the Ward councilors take to heart the centrality of educational programming in this effort. That is what the architects have designed for, with diligent consideration of neighbors’ input throughout the process. The gym is a hot potato that no one wants in front of their home, much less Bridges Street residents (which puts the lie to the pretext of the Potter property acquisition as an argument for complete reconsideration of the whole design). Siting the gym on the park side is considerate to immediate neighbors and promotes its use as a community resource. There are lots of creative ways (trees and plantings, mural) to integrate the new structures into the landscape. It’s time to move forward with the educational program and build the new Cabot School.
@Educator in Newtonville – well put.
While a preservationist may have a bias to keep an antique facade in place, that is only one small piece among many competing issues. Surely trying to move the bulk of the new building over to Bridges would trigger new opposition from neighbors on that side. There is no “perfect” solution, which is how we got to the great design already approved by the CSBC.
Let’s put our kids and schools first – invest in the future!
Keep the Cabot project on track and on time!!
@Educator in Newtonville – well put.
While a preservationist may have a bias to keep an antique facade in place, that is only one small piece among many competing issues. Surely trying to move the bulk of the new building over to Bridges would trigger new opposition from neighbors on that side. There is no “perfect” solution, which is how we got to the great design already approved by the CSBC.
Let’s put our kids and schools first – invest in the future!
Keep the Cabot project on track and on time!!
Everyone, sorry to be late to this conversation. I’m afraid I can’t add much more information at this point except to say that Parkview will be closed. That is definitive.
The project will move forward. Details on how that will happen will be coming in the next week or so. Please call me or contact me directly if you have specific concerns.
I will post the time and location of the next school building committee meeting at http://www.facebook.com/newtonward2sc and also put the information on the Newtonville list. These are open meetings and all are welcome.
And please be assured, the school committee is committed to making sure this project happens on time and on budget.
Everyone, sorry to be late to this conversation. I’m afraid I can’t add much more information at this point except to say that Parkview will be closed. That is definitive.
The project will move forward. Details on how that will happen will be coming in the next week or so. Please call me or contact me directly if you have specific concerns.
I will post the time and location of the next school building committee meeting at http://www.facebook.com/newtonward2sc and also put the information on the Newtonville list. These are open meetings and all are welcome.
And please be assured, the school committee is committed to making sure this project happens on time and on budget.
I agree with Margaret. Relax people. No one is trying to derail the Cabot renovation project.
If there are problems with the current school, the city should remedy them and you should direct your concerns to the current principal. It’s two different issues.
If the new school plan can be vastly improved, it should be done. Remember all of the citizens of Newton are paying for this new school, not just current Cabot parents.
Thank you for keeping an open mind and understanding other people’s viewpoints.
I agree with Margaret. Relax people. No one is trying to derail the Cabot renovation project.
If there are problems with the current school, the city should remedy them and you should direct your concerns to the current principal. It’s two different issues.
If the new school plan can be vastly improved, it should be done. Remember all of the citizens of Newton are paying for this new school, not just current Cabot parents.
Thank you for keeping an open mind and understanding other people’s viewpoints.
I, and many other current Cabot parents, will not “relax.” If you were involved with the facility on a day to day basis you would know that building maintenance has slowed considerably under the auspices of “we’re moving out in 12 months.”
It is not a matter of “all citizens of newton” paying for the school rather than “just current Cabot parents” — it is about the inside of the building, the educational program, rather than the outside, being the single most important component.
I personally believe our three ward representatives and the designers/advocates of this last minute proposal (reminder: submitted by neighborhood residents — not MSBA-approved architects nor the firm we’ve hired to manage the project) are mis-characterizing it. Positioning the gym near the north side of the property WAS considered in the original group of approx 20 potential designs. IT WAS REJECTED. The current plan (commonly referred to as “4.1”) was overwhelmingly approved by the Cabot School Building Committee. Suggesting that the Potter property purchase (which I believe was completed in February and this proposal was introduced in mid-April) suddenly makes a huge difference with respect to building massing is disingenuous. (It did allow for vast improvements with regards to traffic flow and congestion.)
We have very little time left to get the approved plan ready for submission to the MSBA (demonstrating even further how foolish it is to suggest that a new proposal can be designed, reviewed, and approved by multiple committees in the same timeframe). That is where 100% of the efforts must be focused at this point.
I, and many other current Cabot parents, will not “relax.” If you were involved with the facility on a day to day basis you would know that building maintenance has slowed considerably under the auspices of “we’re moving out in 12 months.”
It is not a matter of “all citizens of newton” paying for the school rather than “just current Cabot parents” — it is about the inside of the building, the educational program, rather than the outside, being the single most important component.
I personally believe our three ward representatives and the designers/advocates of this last minute proposal (reminder: submitted by neighborhood residents — not MSBA-approved architects nor the firm we’ve hired to manage the project) are mis-characterizing it. Positioning the gym near the north side of the property WAS considered in the original group of approx 20 potential designs. IT WAS REJECTED. The current plan (commonly referred to as “4.1”) was overwhelmingly approved by the Cabot School Building Committee. Suggesting that the Potter property purchase (which I believe was completed in February and this proposal was introduced in mid-April) suddenly makes a huge difference with respect to building massing is disingenuous. (It did allow for vast improvements with regards to traffic flow and congestion.)
We have very little time left to get the approved plan ready for submission to the MSBA (demonstrating even further how foolish it is to suggest that a new proposal can be designed, reviewed, and approved by multiple committees in the same timeframe). That is where 100% of the efforts must be focused at this point.
Arthur:
I think all things considered, folks are pretty relaxed. If we weren’t, you probably would have gotten a different reaction, no? You ask that folks “keep an open mind and understand other people’s viewpoints.” I think folks who use Cabot School and Cabot Park on a daily basis are doing just that. We’ve kept an open mind when folks who cherish our historic structures asked the community to consider perserving the historic building, despite the risk that meshing a historic structure with a non-historic structure can be challenging (as we are finding out now). We’ve kept an open mind as the other historic schools chose to go a different route. We’ve kept an open mind when we advocated to close Parkview, and at the Park and Rec meeting were accused of using our children as rhetorical shields. We’ve kept an open mind when our teachers asked for parking on site (like any other new school) and we petitioned the Parcs and Rec Commission. We kept an open mind when the Commission rejected our proposal, losing out on city funds to refurbish Cabot Park in the process. We’ve kept an open mind through dozens of community meetings, and changes large and small to the site. We’ve kept an open mind through Zervas being slotted ahead of us, and we’ve watched with some degree of jealousy as our neighbors in Waban have enjoyed one beautiful new school, and are soon to enjoy another. And we continue to keep an open mind, although I admit one thing I’ve learned through this process is that ADVOCATING for the school is necessary. And there is a difference between being closed off in your position and advocating what you believe to be positive change for your community and your kids.
But let me ask you the same question: Are you keeping an open mind? Working to understand other people’s viewpoints? Considering your March 13 letter in the Tab on this issue, where you call Cabot’s rehab as a Taj Mahal akin to Newton North, where you question why so much “excessive” non-classroom space is needed (including why the entire first floor is composed of things like “cafeteria/auditorium with its own kitchen set up, a large music room, a media/library room, an art room, an infirmary, a conference room, a small group room and on and on. Plus lots of space, obviously for administrators and staff), where you clearly put the historic view ahead of the school program, it sounds to me like you’ve already made up your mind regarding the size and scope of the school. You are, of course, welcome to your viewpoint. I respect it. I also was a fan of preserving the historic building. But what I’m asking you to understand is that even in preservation there is a need to preserve not just the historic fascade but the historic purpose of the building as well. Cabot is a school, first and foremost. The Cabot community has already kept an open mind and followed our leaders and our city in preserving the structure. Try and keep an open mind, learn about what occurs at elementary schools these days, learn about the size increases since you went to Cabot, the necessary special education programs, and try and mesh both the morter and bricks with the books and kids.
Regarding Arthur’s suggestion that the current condition of the school is somehow separate from the rehab of the school, and that the complaints should be taken up with the city and the principal, I’m pretty sure we’ve done that. Hence why we are getting a new school. But you can’t just wish yourself a new school, or complain your way to new bathrooms, gym, library, cafeteria, well lit classrooms with heating/cooling appropriate for the season, etc. You know what happens when you complain Arthur? They tell you a new school is coming. They tell you to be patient.
So here we are. Listening to the City Councilors chit-chat among themselves, and be lectured to by our fellow taxpayers. That’s ok. Anything new in Newton is difficult. As I state above, I’m putting my faith in our leaders to do the things they promise and bring us a new Cabot on time and on budget. But it is also pretty apparent that the Cabot community is going to advocate for our community and our school, and that patience, while a virtue, is a finite resource.
Arthur:
I think all things considered, folks are pretty relaxed. If we weren’t, you probably would have gotten a different reaction, no? You ask that folks “keep an open mind and understand other people’s viewpoints.” I think folks who use Cabot School and Cabot Park on a daily basis are doing just that. We’ve kept an open mind when folks who cherish our historic structures asked the community to consider perserving the historic building, despite the risk that meshing a historic structure with a non-historic structure can be challenging (as we are finding out now). We’ve kept an open mind as the other historic schools chose to go a different route. We’ve kept an open mind when we advocated to close Parkview, and at the Park and Rec meeting were accused of using our children as rhetorical shields. We’ve kept an open mind when our teachers asked for parking on site (like any other new school) and we petitioned the Parcs and Rec Commission. We kept an open mind when the Commission rejected our proposal, losing out on city funds to refurbish Cabot Park in the process. We’ve kept an open mind through dozens of community meetings, and changes large and small to the site. We’ve kept an open mind through Zervas being slotted ahead of us, and we’ve watched with some degree of jealousy as our neighbors in Waban have enjoyed one beautiful new school, and are soon to enjoy another. And we continue to keep an open mind, although I admit one thing I’ve learned through this process is that ADVOCATING for the school is necessary. And there is a difference between being closed off in your position and advocating what you believe to be positive change for your community and your kids.
But let me ask you the same question: Are you keeping an open mind? Working to understand other people’s viewpoints? Considering your March 13 letter in the Tab on this issue, where you call Cabot’s rehab as a Taj Mahal akin to Newton North, where you question why so much “excessive” non-classroom space is needed (including why the entire first floor is composed of things like “cafeteria/auditorium with its own kitchen set up, a large music room, a media/library room, an art room, an infirmary, a conference room, a small group room and on and on. Plus lots of space, obviously for administrators and staff), where you clearly put the historic view ahead of the school program, it sounds to me like you’ve already made up your mind regarding the size and scope of the school. You are, of course, welcome to your viewpoint. I respect it. I also was a fan of preserving the historic building. But what I’m asking you to understand is that even in preservation there is a need to preserve not just the historic fascade but the historic purpose of the building as well. Cabot is a school, first and foremost. The Cabot community has already kept an open mind and followed our leaders and our city in preserving the structure. Try and keep an open mind, learn about what occurs at elementary schools these days, learn about the size increases since you went to Cabot, the necessary special education programs, and try and mesh both the morter and bricks with the books and kids.
Regarding Arthur’s suggestion that the current condition of the school is somehow separate from the rehab of the school, and that the complaints should be taken up with the city and the principal, I’m pretty sure we’ve done that. Hence why we are getting a new school. But you can’t just wish yourself a new school, or complain your way to new bathrooms, gym, library, cafeteria, well lit classrooms with heating/cooling appropriate for the season, etc. You know what happens when you complain Arthur? They tell you a new school is coming. They tell you to be patient.
So here we are. Listening to the City Councilors chit-chat among themselves, and be lectured to by our fellow taxpayers. That’s ok. Anything new in Newton is difficult. As I state above, I’m putting my faith in our leaders to do the things they promise and bring us a new Cabot on time and on budget. But it is also pretty apparent that the Cabot community is going to advocate for our community and our school, and that patience, while a virtue, is a finite resource.
http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/support-the-approved?source=c.em.cp&r_by=15662562
Support the approved design for Cabot School and keep the project moving forward on time and on budget. Any delays at this point will result in missed deadlines and cost overruns, despite what you may have heard or been told. Schools scheduled to follow Cabot into the Carr swing space have little chance of staying on target.
http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/support-the-approved?source=c.em.cp&r_by=15662562
Support the approved design for Cabot School and keep the project moving forward on time and on budget. Any delays at this point will result in missed deadlines and cost overruns, despite what you may have heard or been told. Schools scheduled to follow Cabot into the Carr swing space have little chance of staying on target.
Ted–
I hope you are joking when you praise consideration of the “aesthetics of Cabot”, to the obvious exclusion of —
1) educational programming
2) impact on our neighbors
3) parking for faculty and staff
4) safety
5) recreational opportunities through a consoliidated gym/ball field/park
6) inconvenience to Cabot families
7) expense to Newton taxpayers
8) support of the MA School Building Authority
9) disregard of the CBC process
etc. etc. etc.
Clearly Ted’s priorities not in order.
Ted–
I hope you are joking when you praise consideration of the “aesthetics of Cabot”, to the obvious exclusion of —
1) educational programming
2) impact on our neighbors
3) parking for faculty and staff
4) safety
5) recreational opportunities through a consoliidated gym/ball field/park
6) inconvenience to Cabot families
7) expense to Newton taxpayers
8) support of the MA School Building Authority
9) disregard of the CBC process
etc. etc. etc.
Clearly Ted’s priorities not in order.
The local community is mobilizing in support of the CSBC-approved Cabot School design, urging the CSBC, DRC and city councilors to keep the project moving forward on track and on time. Tremendous negative implications for future projects in Newton should this be allowed to derail, and a detriment to our children, educators and taxpayers.
Please sign the petition here to express your support:
http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/support-the-approved?source=c.em.cp&r_by=15662562
The local community is mobilizing in support of the CSBC-approved Cabot School design, urging the CSBC, DRC and city councilors to keep the project moving forward on track and on time. Tremendous negative implications for future projects in Newton should this be allowed to derail, and a detriment to our children, educators and taxpayers.
Please sign the petition here to express your support:
http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/support-the-approved?source=c.em.cp&r_by=15662562
@Newtonville Dad, I don’t think I did praise the aesthetics of Cabot to the exclusion of other legitimate concerns, although it is fairly apparent the historic facade and elements of the building into the decision to the city’s preserve (not my call). My concern is about the massing of buildings on the site and their impact on a tight, residential neighborhood that surrounds the school on three sides. As I have told my Ward colleagues, I am willing to support further consideration of the design and site plan so long as it does not jeopardize MSBA funding or cause undue delays. As I told fignewtonville, my family lived through years of disappointment with severe overcrowding at Horace Mann and prolonged delays at Newton North. So I am sympathetic to the concerns of school parents. I am not, however, sympathetic to people who mischaracterize my statements.
@Newtonville Dad, I don’t think I did praise the aesthetics of Cabot to the exclusion of other legitimate concerns, although it is fairly apparent the historic facade and elements of the building into the decision to the city’s preserve (not my call). My concern is about the massing of buildings on the site and their impact on a tight, residential neighborhood that surrounds the school on three sides. As I have told my Ward colleagues, I am willing to support further consideration of the design and site plan so long as it does not jeopardize MSBA funding or cause undue delays. As I told fignewtonville, my family lived through years of disappointment with severe overcrowding at Horace Mann and prolonged delays at Newton North. So I am sympathetic to the concerns of school parents. I am not, however, sympathetic to people who mischaracterize my statements.
There is a Cabot Working Group meeting scheduled for Monday, May 23, at 8:45AM in the Council Chambers in City Hall. It is open to the public.
There is a Cabot Working Group meeting scheduled for Monday, May 23, at 8:45AM in the Council Chambers in City Hall. It is open to the public.