Use this thread to discuss anything Newton-related but a certain development project on you-know-where street. We may even turn some suggestions into separate threads.
So Newton, what do you want to talk about?
by Greg Reibman | Dec 9, 2015 | Newton | 56 comments
How about a thread about the potential side effects of increased density in the city ?
Or the potential side effects of accessory apartments in the city ?
Lots of things!
1. Excited about the opening of the new Angier (and all the new traffic patterns to slow us down).
2. Not excited that more and more commuters park on our residential streets and don’t care if trash trucks, ambulences and others can get down the street. As long as they don’t have to pay $6 a day!
3. What the new Zervas School will look like
4. What the new Cabot School will look like
5. Will the Newton Public preschool ever be in one building
6. If the skating rinks will be built in lower falls and the highlands
Or the potential side effects of housing development in our village centers ?
How about the potential side effects on our school population on the planned new 3200 units of housing?
How about the potential side effects on the payment of our OPED with the apparent press for the urbanization of our city?
I’d like to propose a pilot project to cover the Mass Pike with parks, so we don’t have to see, inhale the fumes of, or hear the godawful thing.
Paris paid $60 million and managed to cover 1,300 feet of their ugly peripheral highway with a number of bells and whistles including urban forest and playing fields.
It’s only 400 feet from Star Market to the Walnut Street bridge, so a no-frills park hiding the Pike for that stretch could be had for maybe $15 mil.
Any chance of making that happen? The aldermen could view it as an opportunity regain the confidence of the neighborhood that they’ve evidently alienated. And maybe ASP could step up with some funding, since it would increase the value of their plot.
Michael ,
A great idea . I have a few schemes already drawn up , and Sasaki has done an interesting charrette re same a few years ago . The price for same has just gone up a bit however in that a nearby staging ground has recently been usurped .
@Blueprintbill, I’m very pleased to hear that it’s been seriously considered by others far more capable than I.
Through this whole Austin Street debate I kept thinking how I never want to spend any time in Newtonville, and it’s all because of that ugly, offensive, putrid highway.
Covering over as much of the Pike as possible is the greatest thing that could be done to improve the quality of life in this city, IMHO.
Michael ,
Although a not inconsequential undertaking, as you know civil work like this flourishes in socially liberal cultures in Europe . We are not so well equipped politically. It would take some doing and if Newton really wanted to place itself at the forefront of creative American cities this would be a great opportunity to do so. ( as opposed to a pile of inconsequential mobile homes ). It would have too start with the depression of the rail bed to get Walnut street closer to level from one side of Newtonville to the other . And it would entail some creative, light weight structural engineering to deck a surface that would not carry more than a story or two of light weight construction strategically located to build the village image necessary.
Clearly also a part of the package would entail a new accessible MBTA stop and hopefully at the periphery of the deck parking for Fignewtonville. I could go on but the train I’m on is on another resolved that also needs improvement and typing while not my strong suit is near impossible now.
Some ideas for threads:
1) Improving our parks. Go to our neighboring cities and tell me our parks are not running a bit behind.
2) Checking in on 40Bs around the city.
3) Needham street redo and traffic concerns
4) What can we learn from our neighbors regarding ways to do things better.
5) Favorite restaurant in Newton (Breakfast, family joint, fancy)
6) unique stores in Newton (did folks know there was a place called Po-Boys near whole foods that sells its namesake sandwich?)
7) Bullough’s Pond: Restoring a city jewel
8) What are the two improvements in West Newton and Aub coming before Walnut improvements?
9) What change would you recommend the Charter commission make?
10) Why is my house covered in moths?
11) Cabot/Zervais/Angier redos, status?
12) BikeShare in Newton villages? Practical? Possible?
Michael and BluePrintBill:
I have requested to set up a commission through Ruth Balser’s opffice and the and the commission will draft a report on developing over the turnpike. Here is the final wording of the request:
An Act establishing a special commission to study the feasibility of developing up to three-story buildings over the Massachusetts Turnpike
A. There shall be a commission to study the feasibility of development over Route 90, specifically as it passes through the city of Newton.
B. The Commission shall consist of the Secretary of Housing and Economic Development and the Secretary of Transportation or their respective designees, who shall serve as co-chairs of the commission; the state comptroller or the comptroller’s designee; the executive directors of the Massachusetts Development Financing Agency and the Massachusetts Housing Finance Agency or their designees; the Mayor of Newton, or his designee; one member of the House, who shall be appointed by the Speaker of the House; one member of the Senate, who shall be appointed by the President of the Senate; the executive director of the Citizens’ Housing and Planning Association, or her designee; and the executive director of the Community Economic Development Assistance Corporation, or his designee.
C. The Commission shall determine the technical, legal, and financial feasibility of developing up to three-story buildings over Route 90 in the City of Newton. The Commission shall study the feasibility of constructing these buildings for commercial uses, residential, including but not limited to affordable housing uses, and mixed use properties. The commission shall seek in its deliberations input from local businesses and potential developers. The commission shall evaluate the experience of Massachusetts cities that already have development over Route 90, including but not limited to the City of Boston, evaluating the performance of similar commercial properties over major highways. The commission shall evaluate the experience of cities in other states with similar developments over major highways.
D. The Commission shall hold at least one public hearing in the City of Newton.
E. The Commission shall publish its findings and recommendations, together with drafts of legislation, if any, necessary to carry those recommendations into effect, in a written report not later than 2 years after the effective date of this act. The report shall be published on the official website of the Commonwealth, and shall be contemporaneously filed with the House and Senate Committees on Ways and Means, and the House and Senate Chairs of the Joint Committee on Housing, and the House and Senate Chairs of the Committee on Community Development and Small Business.
If you’re bored and sad that there’s nothing left to talk about on Village 14, feel free to join the Charter Commission tonight at city hall at 7:45pm.
I vote for full time charter commission blog. I am getting my election data revved up. I hope the charter commission beats me to it. My data goes back to 1989. If anyone has older data please tell me.
Jeff: first Charter Commission public hearing is the 17th, I’ll post about the details soon. Please come share your thoughts with us. And if you have any other information or thoughts to share with the Commission, please email us at [email protected]!
Attracting fast-casual chains and places where you can eat there but not pay $20 per person.
Hey Bryan, are you guys going to start putting up Charter Commission audios and minutes, or do I have to keep looking for people to record them so I can put them up on yourlisten.com? When I go to the Charter Commission page http://www.newtonma.gov/gov/chartercommission/default.asp the only thing there is the Dec 9 agenda.
@Julia: We plan to have audio and minutes available for public consumption shortly. We’re still setting all of that up.
Hi Julia – Chris Steele, Karen Manning and I met with Joe Mulvey in the IT department today to get started on the Charter Commission web page. As Brian mentioned, you should begin to see agendas, minutes, audios of the meetings, and other documents posted there. We have of tonight’s meeting at which we discussed our plan of action, the public hearing, outreach to the community over the course of the next 18 months, and items to place on the web page.
The first public hearing is on December 17 at 7:00 in the Aldermanic Chambers as required by Mass. law (first public hearing must take place within 45 days of the election). There will also be other public hearings and means of providing input from various groups and individuals to the Commission in the coming months.
Jane & Bryan, sounds good, thanks!
Tom Sheff ,
Your proposal to establish a new roof over the turnpike sounds great ! This indeed would be a worthwhile topic for V14 and hopefully it will have legs. I would expect the possibility for the reunification of Newtonville would catch the imagination of Newton’s citizenry and go some in binding the Austin Street wound. It would surely improve the view from same. Maybe the ASP’s could be enlisted to help fund it . ??
If we really are talking about what to do about Pike area and crossings, we should definitely include Newton Corner (preferably before I get run over by an Audi- no offense to Aud drivers here, but for some reason it’s always an Audi ;)).
But why not, in general? If it sounds like too big a product, the first step is to generate interest, then figure out how it might be done.
It’s interesting that Newton Corner is singled out. While I’m sure it’s a nightmare to walk around/over the pike, I’ve not had a problem with the “roundabout.” In part, I judge that by what roads I avoid in Newton, and that segment isn’t one of them.
@Doug, maybe that’s because I’m one of those Audi drivers? 🙂
Sidewalks!
The sidewalk situation in Newton is not bad – certainly better than all our neighbors to the west. However, there are a few major streets without sidewalks as well as many streets where it’s on and off. The most urgent need in my opinion is at Dudley Road and Quinobequin Road. Does the city have any (publicly available) plan to address this?
While discussing building over the Turnpike please keep in mind that the air rights are owned by MassDOT and procurement of those rights would be open to developers based on the conditions of an RFP. Building over the Turnpike is very expensive, evidenced by the limited projects that have completed in Boston. The Star Market in Newtonville is built over the Turnpike but not the adjacent rail corridor and provides no access from the north side of Pike. Also air rights construction creates tremendous environmental challenges such as ventilation and lighting.
@ Doug Haslam.
Newton Corner has its turnpike cover , which should serve as a great model for what Not To Do in Newtonville ! They have had their day in the transport engineers design office and I’m not sure another “Big Dig” project would even solve those problems. The “Circle of Death” lives on in spite of ,.. Or maybe because of all the Audis, including my own.
@Howard , so let’s can the whole idea.
In the past I have looked into the financials for developing over the T pike. It was plain to me that the city couldn’t handle it unless the developer built a 10 story building (thats when the developer starts to turn a profit), so don’t hold your breath on the project. That was roughly 10 years ago, so who knows what happens to prices over that timeframe. I am hoping the city can approach the MassDOT and haggle with them. Maybe we can get all the parties together and share the price. Lets face it, they lose out on revenue if it’s not built upon. We lose out on tax revenue and bringing the city together.
Howard, when they start construction they lay down a platform which is what costs all the money. The platform has a series of chimneys so the tunnel part of the project (where the cars drive thru) all the exhaust goes out via chimney.
Bill, I don’t think the idea should be scrapped I am just pointing out some of the challenges a project of this type faces. Tom, I worked on two of the major air rights projects that have been awarded to developers. Parcels 7 and 8 at Yawkey Station and Parcel 13 of Boylston St. over the MBTA Hynes Station. I understand that you are not proposing a project with huge hi-rise building so that very expensive foundation slab might not be necessary. I worked for the firm that was able to resolve the right-of-way problems that enabled the construction of the new center platforms that resulted in increased commuter rail service at the station. The coordination with the MBTA and Amtrax is not easy and also impacts the cost if construction. I am not trying to say that it’s impossible because I think that creating a park would be fantastic and be a great benefit to all.
Howard, do you have any insight into how much a fully accessible train station would cost?
While it is true the Newtonville station is truly not handicap accessible, it is functional for lots of folks.
And the T does have a RIDE service that is quite able to transport those with disabilities all over the whole T service area. If a tenant at the new Austin St place were disabled, that service is likely available, and it is a door to door service at very reasonable cost.
Newtonville Station is:
– not well served outside of commuting hours (when I head to New York via Amtrak, on a Sunday afternoon), I spend as much time getting from my house to South Station (and then waiting), as I do on Amtrak – meanwhile, LIRR to the Island runs every 30 minutes
– a lot of trains don’t stop at Newtonville, because there’s a platform on only one track
– the reason there’s a platform on only one track is because, as soon as they do any construction at all, they have to make it handicap accessible – and nobody wants to eat the costs
Between busses and train, my millennial kids (one of whom doesn’t drive) wouldn’t even consider living at ASP – because the only after-hours T service is from Highlands, and the 59 bus shuts down early — when our kids are at home, we spend an awful lot of time shuttling them to Highlands to/from our house on Austin St.
T service to/from Newtonville is a joke.
Miles, is a second platform really necessary? Don’t you think the trains are often passing through Newton by design, not because they are on the wrong track? Service additions over the past few years have generally benefitted MetroWest & Worcester. Making every Worcester train a local train is the wrong way to go; what we want are more short-run local trains scheduled alongside the Worcester express trains. More reliable service for everyone. The MBTA has already taken steps to increase capacity by buying the line from CSX and has the potential do more with redesign of track at Beacon Yards and West Station. Newton could team up with the major upcoming investments in transit for Allston and Brighton and make something happen, or we could just complain and let MetroWest reap all the benefits.
Ted, it is difficult to estimate a general cost to make an MBTA Commuter Rail station fully accessible because of the varying right of way restrictions, elevations of the stations and the scope of work to make them fully accessible. The new Yawkey Station cost about 13.5 million I would estimate a station like Newtonville would be substantially higher. Auburndale and West Newton stations would be less costly.
I agree with Tom Sheff. Development rights over the MASS Pike need to be considered. This could be a source of new tax revenue so we can lessen the burden on the residential taxpayer. Maybe the Newton/Needham Chamber under Greg’s leadership can convene a work group to study. Certainly Mike Striar and Tom Sheff would be great additions for input.
Could structural features of new accessible commuter rail stations serve as supports for decking over the pike? Would that change the funding/financing equation?
What changes the development cost is to require a developer to make the station accessible as part of their project benefits to the developer is direct access from their building to the station. This is what is required from the parcel 13 development. They will make Auditorium and Hynes Station fully accessible as part of their project.
Thanks, Howard. Last year, the TAB reported that relocating Auburndale station and making it accessible was estimated to cost $17 million. In any event, a private-public partnership to build a fully accessible commuter rail station at any of these locations would most likely involve a development project considerably larger than Austin Street.
Should Newton consider joining a bulk electricity purchasing program to help residents and small businesses save on the supply portion of that utility bill? This month, 23 Massachusetts cities and towns joined a Community Electricity Aggregation Program run by the Southeast Regional Planning and Economic Development District. The program’s website provides a good overview and these FAQs, http://masscea.com/?page_id=26.
Ted, the new Commuter Rail station that New Balance is building with their development is estimated to cost 14 to 16 million $ a site that has less challenges to make it fully accessible.
Ted, agreed. The station funded by New Balance was north of that amount, and New Balance has a much larger footprint and reason to benefit the local community.
As for building over the Pike, steel is cheaper now I’m told, but if it were really possible you’d see buildings going up near Columbus Ave in Boston, near the Fenway, near Boylston. Lots of talk for all of those, nothing has broken ground. And those were all now a decade in the making.
I’d love for the Pike to be covered. It would tie our city together. It would potentially be beautiful. But barring some technological improvement, or a major donor of untold proportions, you would need a gigantic project to make the numbers work.
I’d like to join this conversation about air-rights. I’m glad Tom brought it up, and I’m encouraged to find out about his request to establish an air-rights commission. The space over the Mass Pike in Newton represents the largest developable “land” left in the city. It’s a resource with tremendous value, and one that needs to be intelligently cultivated.
In my opinion, it is not financially feasible to just build public spaces [like playgrounds and parks] over the Pike. Those spaces could certainly be incorporated as part of a larger development project. But monetary incentive is an essential ingredient in air-rights development. It’s expensive to build structures on air-rights, so the cost has to make sense to a developer and an end user. In plain English, that means you have to build something big…
Shaw’s market is an anomaly from another era. Today, a starting point for scale would require something at least as large as the Gateway Center in Newton Corner. And we all just saw the battle that unfolded over Austin Street, a modestly sized project compared to the Gateway Center. So building something much larger than Austin Street over the Pike, would require a clear public benefit[s] of overwhelming value, or it’s never going to get off the ground [pun intended].
I do have a very specific idea I’d be happy to share, if people want to continue this conversation.
Mike, it would be great if you shared your ideas because if done right it could be a fantastic economic development, additional housing and parks improvement. It could be done if a well planned proposal developed with significant public and elected officials input could be successful. Please keep this thread going.
Dan, the Newtonville Commuter Rail is inaccessible for many who are not disabled but who can not navigate the steep steps down to or up from the platform, such as seniors and adults with kids in strollers or toddlers. The Ride is for the genuinely disable.
Miles, my children who are a little older than Millennials have no trouble walking to the T in the highlands but not during commuting hours. Mostly they take the Express Bus and occasionally the commuter rail. I cannot navigate the steps to the commuter rail and need parking to take the T, of course the green line takes much longer.
@marti, I know that. My only point ewas that it is usable for a large chunk of the population.
@Mike Striar- I, for one, would love to hear your ideas so please do share! I agree that the Mass Pike is an ugly spine through Newton. I’ve no idea what the cost or ramifications of a construction project would be, though I suspect that the suppression of the Central Artery would be informative. As someone who drives into Boston with regularity, I’m amazed at what has been accomplished vis-a-vis connecting South Boston with the Financial District and nothing begins without an idea (and a dream). 🙂
P.S. – Striar for Mayor – count me in!
@ Mike Striar
“That means you have to build something big,…”
“.., it’s not financially feasible to just build public spaces, like parks and playgrounds over the pike ,..”
Spoken like a true real estate developer!
The central artery has a huge park / playground built over it , called the Rose Kennedy Greenway and I’m not sure which developer lost his shirt on that one . Why can’t we build a smaller version of same here and call it the Austin Street Memorial Greenway . Or maybe the Setti Warren Was Here Greenway ! That should get the job done here in Newton .
Blueprintbill, your argument is invalid. While the Rose Kennedy Greenway was a public-private project, the Big Dig that put the Central Artery underground and created the open space which made it possible was a $24.3 billion, publicly funded project. Developers may not have lost their shirts, but taxpayers were left holding the bag for the most expensive highway project ever.
How about a public-private partnership that would (1) make Newtonville commuter rail accessible; (2) use part of an associated over-the-pike deck for I-90 park & ride parking that is walled-off-from-surface-streets (taking them off Newton local streets); (3) includes other appropriate air-rights development as the community sees fit.
Inbound I-90 park & riders would right exit onto a I-90 only parking lot, and loop around the deck to go home westbound. The deck would be porous to pedestrians, so park & riders could shop on Walnut St.
My more general point is that this thread addresses two issues – air rights and commuter rail stations – but is it worth considering whether these co-located issues should be linked?
Who owns the air rights over the Mass. Pike? Newton or the State of Massachusetts? Just curious.
I think it is the Turnpike Authority, who has leased out portions of it.
Who has oversight of such a project?
Here’s one fact to keep in mind when contemplating any air-rights development. When you combine an air-rights site with a terrestrial site, it substantially reduces the square foot construction cost of a project’s air-rights component. So identifying the right spot is a critically important first step…
I believe the “right spot” is just east of Newton Corner, where the City owns a fairly large parcel of property that abuts the Pike on Grasmere Street. That property could be used as the terrestrial piece of an air-rights development…
As to use, I am firmly of the opinion that’s it’s better to identify an end-user in advance, rather than initiate the air-rights process with any ambiguity about who might build what. So I think a good starting point would be to find that end-user…
I’ll preface this by saying, ANY proposed air-rights project in Newton is going to face stiff opposition. Viability can only be achieved through an extraordinary proposal that outweighs the negatives associated with any large scale development…
There are three things I would look for from an end-user at the aforementioned location. First, a redesign of the so-called “Circle of Death,” to fix that existing problem. Second, a new train station. Third, a payment in lieu of taxes [PILOT] that exceeds the projected assessed property tax of the proposed project…
With all those things in mind, I think Mayor Warren might find a responsive ear in the front office of the Boston Celtics. The Celtics have always been tenants at Boston Garden, but they’ve wanted their own building for years. I believe they’d be interested in pursuing the site I’ve mentioned.
What is the approximate cost to Newton taxpayers?