“Newton Mom” sent this question to Village 14 via email:
As a parent of an elementary school student, I received an email yesterday that the first bell next year will be at 8:20 and second bell at 8:25. . . . anyone over there care to post this topic? Curious to see why the change and how people feel.
Apparently first bell is currently 8:20 and second bell is 8:35 a.m.
How do you get 400 kids into the building within five minutes and have them remove jackets etc?
If it was because the kids need more learning time, lets get rid of the early release Thursdays.
But having 400 kids file in one to two doors, take off jackets and be ready to learn in less than five minutes is illogical. And add winter boots!
The kids can’t enter the building until 8:20 AM. They don’t let the kids in early (unlike middle school) so the kids play outside til 8:20 AM. I am looking forward to reading other people’s opinions.
I heard on a parents listserve that the state was requiring another 10 minutes of instruction per day and that the teachers’ contract prevents the schools from opening before 8:20. I agree that we should get rid of early release days before doing something unpractical like this. Many schools don’t have good parking situations–this will make it worse, especially in bad weather. Let’s hope it is fixed with the new teacher contract.
I’d expect reasonable people to act reasonably and wouldn’t worry about it.
Like maybe when people see the demand for blue zones, already at capacity, tripled, reasonable people will drop their kids off elsewhere, put them on a bus, or let them walk to school.
@Jane,
What do you mean, act reasonably?
Getting 400 or so kids into school & in class room within 5 minutes is plain nuts! In fact I would say it could be extremely dangerous. Winter was just a few short months ago, and that was chaotic enough.
Just think about traffic congestion.
This is ill conceived.
Who is supposed to act reasonably? Parents? Teachers? Principals? It’s a madhouse at most schools anyway, even with lots of walkers. There are already accidents and near accidents around the blue zones with a 15 minute window. Many parents work and can’t take the time to walk the 1/2 mile to school and back home to get to their cars. Kindergartners are supposed to be walked into the building. I’m all for an earlier start time but they should open the doors earlier. Or, stop with the early releases.
It would be great if that happened, but I wouldn’t hold my breath, and to be honest I see this as a serious safety issue and think waiting to see what happens is a big mistake. If we had schools that were designed with separate areas for walkers/bikers, buses, and cars to arrive on site, this would not be a big deal. But we don’t. At most schools, we have walkers/bikers, buses, and cars all arriving at the same location. With a 15-minute window, the arrivals are spread out enough that it works somewhat reasonably in decent weather, but is a mess in bad weather. If we reduce that to a 5-minute window, there will be gridlock on a daily basis, which creates unsafe conditions for everyone, including students walking and biking, kids getting dropped off, and the rest of the neighborhood.
Also, dropping this 2 days before the end of school in a sort of “by the way” email is not a good PR move. Comes across like releasing bad news on the Friday of a holiday weekend – looks like you’re hoping no one notices.
@Adam, I am all for walking but carrying a baby, holding small hands, and all their accoutrements through the school zones in winters like we just had is like a bizzare, very dangerous, first world version of Frogger.
Many “reasonable” people who live too close to use the bus *unhappily* drive or use the Blue Zone in the winter. The sidewalks are often not stroller accessible, and walking in snow banked streets at rush hour with small children is usually frowned upon, even among the most reasonable of us. I understand the city does what it can, when it can but it really doesn’t take a lot to make an icy sidewalk that’s technically walkable for adults inaccessible for the smallest citizens of our city.
What I’d like to know is how this dictum came about. Lurking School Committee or administration members? Anyone, anyone? Because, I’m pretty sure “condensing the arrival time for 350-400+ elementary kids to 5 minutes sounds like a really good idea” said no parent or teacher ever.
I’m not hopeful either. Newton school drop-off is an exercise in unreasonable-ness, especially when it comes to parent behavior in the blue zone.
I think a good deal of today’s morning chaos can be traced back to the 9/11 locked door policies, narrowing the arrival window to 15 minutes. I think we’ve gotten a false sense of security in those morning hours in exchange for a more hectic and dangerous environment outside of the school.
@AngierParent, many parents have options other than driving to the front of the school 5 days a week. Options include letting kids, especially older ones, walk alone or with friends, either from home or from some nearby drop-off point. If not every day, perhaps on occasion. It actually saves time for the working parent. Our community increasingly assumes children will be driven to school.
Joyce, couldn’t agree more about the winter problems. Unfortunately, the city does not make even the tiniest pedestrians a priority. The blue zones are often widened before the sidewalks are fully cleared. And many kids are driven year-round, though winter weather does help form driving habits.
“Act” was the wrong word. I’d expect people (principal, teachers, parents) to be reasonable.
@Adam–just to be clear, we walk our kids to school. But we sometimes can’t and I am very sensitive to the needs of other families who don’t have the opportunity to do so (either because they don’t have flexible working conditions or they live too far from school for it to be feasible). Or, as Joyce said, the conditions render it completely unsafe to do so. I also don’t like the locked door, but that ship has sailed.
@Jane,
Do you really think this was a good decision?
Yes, the locked doors contribute, but as AngierParent points out, that ship has sailed. I learned on a discussion list yesterday that some of the elementary schools already use 8:25 as the start time, which results in large numbers of kids being marked “tardy” every day, including the bus kids, which has resulted in some kids not wanting to ride the bus because they don’t want to be marked late. I know that being marked late in elementary school doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things, but to many little kids, having to go through the main entrance and be signed in and marked late does matter. A lot. And if the real message is “the 8:25 start time is a just a technicality and it’s OK to be late”, we’re teaching elementary kids that arriving on time for school isn’t a priority. This can’t really be the tone we want to set.
I spent 37 years in elementary schools and have no recollection of having a bell start the school day. There may very well have been one, but elementary schools aren’t too focused on bells. In truth, you probably couldn’t find three clocks with the same time in any of the elementary buildings from what I could tell.
As for people marking kids tardy for being a few minutes late, I don’t remember that either. That was my experience in 4 elementary schools, but other schools may have handled the situation differently. As I said, people need to be reasonable. It’s not reasonable to mark young children who can’t even tell time tardy if they arrive a few minutes late. The only students I ever marked as tardy were those who routinely arrived well after the school day began.
Why not have the first bell ring at 8:10 AM, and second bell ring at 8:25 AM? Schools that have large populations can not cram into the main door at 8:20 AM, and have everyone ready to learn at 8:25 AM. I believe if the school wanted to change, then just open the building at 8:10 AM, and kids can transition into their classroom.
If you work at the John Hancock Tower, does every one in the building report in at 9 AM? No, and they could not expect that . . . . and there is no way that you walk into your office building at 8:55 AM and ready to work at 9 AM. By the time I park my car, wait for an elevator (or walk seven flights of stairs), and get to my cube, it is more than five minutes, and I haven’t taken off coat, put my laptop on my desk or said hello to my manager or coworkers.
Jane, yes, that’s how it was but it all changed post-Sandy Hook. New security rules mean that all doors are locked, including the main entrance, all day. The student doors unlock at 8:20 and relock at 8:35 automatically, so if you arrive after 8:35 you have to go to the main entrance to be buzzed in, then be signed in at the office before going up to class.
Tricia,
Does that mean next year it looks at 8:25 AM? And yes, signing the late binder causes anxiety for kids. Visits to the office usually mean bad behavior.
AngierParent, we agree. Driving directly to the front door, every day may be a necessity for some, but for most people there are other options at least some of the time. Our school policies and planning of new school buildings seem to be driven by the thinking that people should and are in fact entitled to use the blue zone every day. This takes its toll on our community in so many ways.
Tricia, the 8:25 start was less formal when it was announced a few years ago. It sounds like it’s going to be more formal now.
NewtonMom, why not open the classrooms 10 minutes earlier? Certainly seems like an option, but it would cost $$$.
Adam,
The cost of the daily stress to hundreds of elementary school kids is worth something. Someone in the school department or school committee must have thought this through. My kid doesn’t want to disappoint the teacher, and being on time is part of that. If my kid’s bus is late (which is common for my middle school kid) no matter how many times I tell her that it isn’t her fault, she still doesn’t want to sign the late book. Others feel the same way, so either the school goes back to the 8:20/8:35 window, or 8:10/8:25 window. Lets not create stress in six year olds. They are rushed around already . . . . . . condensing the welcome to 5 minutes is not logical.
As my middle school student logically put it. . . . in middle school there is bell to come into the building, another bell to warn you to get to first class and the final bell that indicates you should be ready in your seat. . . . and that is more than five minutes
I understand that the rules about entering elementary buildings have changed, but that doesn’t preclude arriving at a reasonable solution. If it takes 15 minutes to get kids in the building, then it does. The last thing anyone wants is a long line of kids waiting in line to sign in.
Sounds to me like they are saying 8:25 just to meet a requirement, but realistically, that is never going to happen.
The Massachusetts Department of Elementary and Secondary Education (DESE) doesn’t set start and end times — and they didn’t dictate this specific change. DESE sets minimum total state requirements for learning time and leaves it up to the districts to set their own schedules. This change means that Newton complied without meaningfully increasing learning time, which the regulations champion (and data supports with undeniable links to student achievement). Rather than touch the expired, yet in force, teacher’s contract with its rigid rules about when kids can be in the building, start times, professional days, early releases, etc (a contract which is now under negotiation), Dr F chose to add ten minutes per day, perceived as painless to teachers, by putting pressure on 7-year-olds to run intro the school building and get their coats off faster. Might satisfy bare minimum learning time standards, but in reality will probably mean that half the class is still in the hallway struggling with their snow boots when the official “instruction” stopwatch starts. Wink. Wink. Nudge. Nudge. Compliance without any real benefit to children. Kinda like how ketchup can be considered a nutritious school lunch vegetable if enough self-serving bureaucrats with lifetime employment and guaranteed pensions pat each other’s backs and gladhand each other, then stare down at their shoes when called out on how they’re actually advancing the interests of children (especially those most at risk), or imagine this, doing right by the taxpayers that pay their salaries.
This is all about achieving the rock bottom bare instruction time minimum — something that should outrage us as an educated community that values education. . This is about not cheating Newton kids out of total learning time that they could automatically expect in other(perceived as lesser) MA districts. All of those “early release days”when they show movies and have fluff programming are counted as full learning time.Somehow, it was calculated as coming up short.Glory Hallelujiah and God bless the DESE! I, for one, am glad if our DESE, our Massachusetts education regulatory agency, has demanded that our kids actually get the bare minimum of instruction time mandated by MA law. As parents and taxpayers, I think it’s time that we set the educational bar higher.Especially in Newton.
Also upset that the NPS, which doesn’t do anything without the blessing of the School Committee, chose to announce this change at the very end of the school year when people are checked out and less likely to respond. Well, it worked for the Fleishman plagiarism incident…
This shady, underhanded communications strategy underscores a cowardly decision to shift the burden of minimum compliance to minimum state standards for learning times to children, families, traffic flow, safety, the neighboring school community — and worst of all to six-year-olds that can’t get dropped off, enter a building and get their hats, snow pants, mittens and other gear off in under 5 minutes. There’s enough stress on two parent working families as it is (with conferences scheduled between school hours, vs. in the evenings) Why put further stress on little ones and their rush-to-work parents with little net educational gain in the real learning time that our kids need to succeed — especially the growing number of Newton students that are on the wrong side of the widening achievement gap.
This 10 minute solution isn’t the answer. Let’s add meaningful learningL time by eliminating Thursday early releases. Teachers like to compare salaries from district to district, let’s start comparing early release days and family-friendly scheduling.Let’s rethink this. Let’s start comparing what kids get, when rising standards demand increased learning time.
I won’t even start on full day kindergarten and where we stand comparatively in Massachusetts. I’ve been doing that since my oldest was in elementary school and he’s on his way to college. Time for younger parents to pick up that baton and not just run with it, but rap our school leadership over the head with it.
Terrific comment Karen.
KarenN – Have you considered running for school committee? If not, I really urge you to. SC would serve well with independent and well informed thinkers like you.
“Sounds to me like they are saying 8:25 just to meet a requirement, but realistically, that is never going to happen.”
From our principal’s desk:
A big change for next year will be the start time of 8:30AM. Children arriving after that time will be marked tardy, and specialist instruction – art, music, physical education and library will start at 8:30AM as well. This will be a huge change for all of us, so I am giving you two months to prepare. The doors will continue to open at 8:20AM.
Yes, that totally sounds like a reasonable expectation for the school staff and community. How many times will a specialist have to stop and explain to a late comer what is going on, or actually just eat into the instructional time and wait the ten minutes to begin?
I know you’re reading NPS and School Committee lurkers and I formally *invite* you all to come experience this in action, in September and again in February. One week each time. It’s the day in and out of it that I think you’d benefit from experiencing. Not to worry though, I will walk you in myself and help you get settled each day at PE, Art, Music and Library. It can be confusing you know to figure out where you need to be and when. Don’t forget to use the bathroom before you leave home though because you’re on your own there. My school is central so please be so kind as to walk or take public transportation – the Blue Zone is NOT for you. I’m sure the good folks at any of the other elementary schools would love to have you as well.
Please RSVP here as we would not want you to get lost in the shuffle but as my esteemed principal states “I’m giving you two months to prepare”. I suggest you do dry runs at home, particularly in your winter gear. Don’t forget you’ll need to build in time to divest yourself of your winter clothing AND change out of your rain/snow boots. You will also need time to put your back and forth folders, library books and your lunch boxes in the appropriate places. Also, my advice: don’t greet anyone, don’t make eye contact, don’t get out of anyone’s way. Common courtesy is for the weak. Barrel through and get.it.done.
I sincerely look forward to seeing you ALL take turns on our campus.
Kind regards lurkers, kind regards.
This is a real disservice to students, their parents and the taxpayers. Seems like cheating to me. Maybe that’s a strong word but it doesn’t appear to be within the spirit of what is meant by instructional time.
If DESE had the will, we could easily increase instructional time. Depending on the grade level, students spend substantially more time prepping and taking standardized tests than they did just 10 years ago. As an example, 5th graders spend 10 days taking tests. That’s the actual days taking the tests and doesn’t include time spent prepping for the tests. In these highly competitive times, even kindergarteners (and their teachers) spend an inordinate amount of time taking mandated tests (MKEA).
If 5th graders spent 5 days a year taking tests that provided high quality feedback to teachers, right there you reclaim a huge amount of time to instruction. If kindergarten teachers didn’t have to spend 90 minutes testing each student – =individually – during the school day, K teachers would reclaim hours of instructional time.
Unfortunately, DESE doesn’t have the will to make changes. If you want to know why, then follow the money.
Maybe somebody should start a change.org petition.
Have it email the entire school committee every time somebody signs it.
Jane, your comment is correct, there is too much time on standardized tests, but that still doesn’t address claiming we are adding ten minutes of instructional time at a time when that is clearly impossible, just to say we did it. That’s my problem with this.
Karen – Thank you for so eloquently stating the obvious. I’m sick & tired of spineless school committee members who don’t put the needs of our children first. They should be all over school administrators for this selfish, sleazy, ill-conceived idea. Then again, NPS decision-makers are probably down the Cape for the summer by now.
It reminds me of many on the Board of Aldermen, Historical Commission & Building Dept who turn a blind eye and/or who are in the pockets of greedy developers (and their chummy lawyers whom you can spot a mile away in the corridors of City Hall). Starter homes are being razed at alarming rates in Newton thereby preventing our children from ever being able to afford to live in the city they grew up in. I want my kid to be able to purchase a home someday, not aspire to qualify for a subsidized housing project. Google “Newton Historical Commission AGENDA” and then cross match with “Newton MA building permit summary report, DEMOLITION”. Take a look at what’s being demolished & then what’s being build in its place (usually with the Historical Board’s blessing — if it’s even needed — & WAIVER of a wait period).
Many of our city leaders DON’T care about our kids in kindergarten as demonstrated by this new foolhardy, self-serving 5 minute rule….. nor do they care about our kids when they get out of college as demonstrated by their anti-homeowner, pro-developer priorities.
Can someone please publish how EACH school committee member voted on this new start time policy. I’d like to know who I (and the rest of my family) should BLANK on my next ballot. “Lassy” is right- this is NOT instructional time. Who’s kidding whom. And Jane is right too – follow the money.
A light bulb just went off in my head after reading this thread. I was totally against voting for the new young, inexperienced candidates for Aldermen. However, these new bureaucratic policies totally screw their age group. It’s time for some fresh untainted blood — folks who are not afraid to truly represent the desires of young families & constituents.
I found this document regarding an agreement between the teachers association and schools committee.
http://www.newton.k12.ma.us/cms/lib8/MA01907692/Centricity/Domain/69/MOA.pdf
On a closer inspection it was dated April 27, 2015.
Reading Section 1 however, it went into effect beginning September, 2014 !!!!
@Simon – Yikes!, the teachers got a one time payment in return for this fictional increase in instruction time.
@Jerry,
It would appear that way wouldn’t it, but then everything seems back to front in this document..
In section 2.
.. the additional ten minutes of daily instructional time for elementary schools that is added by changing the start time for instruction from 8:35 AM to 8:25AM shall be limited in use to instruction that focuses on social and emotional learning.
Wow.
So we have a document dated April 2015 , starting September 2014. And instruction time that is well, backwards!!!!
And given comments above, this emotional learning will be about dealing with the stress of not getting tardy marks!
Every time I look at this document / subject it makes be cringe!
What is social and emotional learning? Is there a curriculum for that? Is it a subject? Do the regular classroom teaches teach this subject? Does anybody know what this is?
I suspect it’s code words for “not really educational time because kids are still filing in and taking off their coats, boots, etc”
That is so terrible.
Maybe the teachers can use some of the 10 minute segments designated for social and emotional learning to teach about civic responsibility. One excellent topic would be the correctness and social benefits of picking up their trash created by their end-of-year parties held outside the school building. I spent time this weekend picking up the trash from the front lawn of my soon-to-be non-village elementary school. I left the paper cups et. al. in the back playground for the teachers to address today. Even though there are some cars at the school, there does not seem to be any improvement in the trash situation.
Maybe the parents can participate in the 10 minute sessions too so they will learn not to litter their empty coffee cups on the sidewalks as they accompany their children to the school. With a 50% increase in the school’s enrollment coming soon, these 10 minute sessions might help to avoid a 50% increase in the trash left around their beautiful new building. JMO.
I just got an email from David Fleishman saying that they had plenty of feedback and they are now going to allow a 10 minute window, instead of the original 5 minutes.