And will you bother shoveling or are you just going to wait for it to melt?
How are the streets and sidewalks in your village?
by Village 14 | Mar 19, 2013 | Newton | 78 comments
September 13, 2023
And will you bother shoveling or are you just going to wait for it to melt?
September 13, 2023
Plows did a great job this time (Nonantum Pl, near Charlesbank) after leaving a mess last time. Street down to pavement, and wide to the curb.
When I went out around 8 it was maybe 6 inches if that, but wet and heavy- be careful shoveling
My little dead-end in the Highlands was plowed by 6:15 AM…. I was sure school was on!
And the plows made it wider than usual.
Great job.
As an alderman, I have to be the first in my neighborhood to get out and clear my sidewalk, whether I think it will melt or not. I have to admit, when I drove to work this morning after stopping by City Hall, I was kind of surprised that today was a snow day and not just a late start day. I bet Wayland had school all day today.
Mu deadend street off a deadend street was also clear when I got up to answer the superintendent’s robo-call at 6 a.m. today.
My driveway and walks? Let’s just say they are not yet a thing of beauty.
Not good news for this Newton resident.
Ted – Is that part of the oath at your inauguration or are you afraid Village 14 will photograph all the aldermen’s sidewalks? 🙂
Wayland had no school, which I thought was a surprise!
@Greg. They did a great job on Dickerman as they did on your street. But then, we are members of the Newton Highlands Area Council, so I’m certain the City wanted to make certain we would be clear to go for any emergency. Don’t ya think.
According to the story Greg posted, Newton had 6 inches as of 5:43 am. So when I was out there, we prob had an inch or 2 more. 8 sounds right, and it was heavy.
@Gail, yes.
The City did an excellent job on the roads. Shame on us homeowners. If we’d all just gotten up at 5:00am to shovel the sidewalks, the Superintendent would not have had to cancel school today…
Obviously I’m being sarcastic about the sidewalks. But this is at least the second time this season that school had to be cancelled because the sidewalks were not clear for safe passage. So instead of spending money on clearing the sidewalks, we pay all the teachers to stay home. The mayor should have included funds for sidewalk snow clearing in his override proposal. The fact that he didn’t, pretty much tells you how low a priority this is. Pennywise = Dollar foolish!
@mike. . . . .the teachers get paid a salary for 180 days. They are not earning extra money off the snow day.
But as of 7:15 AM I was outside shoveling and by 7:45 AM my sidewalks (I live on a corner) were shoveled.
Should have had a delay.
@Newton Mom– I understand how teachers pay is structured. Today they got paid to stay home. That is a fact. I’m simply stating that fact to provide some contrast to the cost of sidewalk snow clearing.
I have to add that I completely support the superintendent’s decision. He has consistently put the safety of our students first in storm related closings. I think that’s the right thing to do.
@Mike a closing or a delay?
@Newton Mom– I understand your opinion about a delay vs. closing. But from what I can tell, you’re basing that on the conditions at or near your home. The superintendent has to evaluate conditions throughout the city, and do it in time to notify everyone by 6:00am, regardless of whether schools will be closed or just delayed. Based on that timeline, I think he made the right call today. I’m sure it was a difficult decision, because this wasn’t a major storm. But I believe it was [and always is] the correct decision to put safety first.
Yes, but I grew up in New England, and I am used to going to school and work in the snow. The Friday storm 10 days ago – closing it was the right call. However, most places of business were open. If it is too dangerous to go out and drive, please cancel school. However, if by 11 AM parents are driving their kids to the movies, and the mall, and out to lunch, why did we cancel? People are out and about. I am fine with keeping people home when it is unsafe to travel, but offices were open, stores were open. . . . schools were not.
Mike, we established that we reached a stalemate on the sidewalk clearing argument, but on this particular issue, I just don’t get it. Teachers got a paid today “to stay at home” and have to go to work an extra day “for free” in June. What exactly is your point? It certainly would have been great if everyone could have gotten to school safely today, but saving a day’s salary is not among the benefits.
And by the way, the conditions in Newton aren’t all that matters. Without teachers, there isn’t much point in opening our schools, and many (most?) of them do not live in Newton.
and unless the superintendent has privately shared with you logic behind his decision, I think it’s a bit of a leap to ever assume the closing was because of sidewalk conditions.
@Adam– If you’re going to quote me, at least get it right. I wrote that as a result of impassible sidewalks today, “…we pay all the teachers to stay home.” I did NOT write anything about working an extra day “for free.”
I’m simply making the point that the teachers got paid to stay home today. It’s a very straight forward and uncomplicated point that reflects just one of the hidden costs from failing to clear the sidewalks.
Do you disagree with me that the teachers got paid to stay at home today? It seems like a pretty factual statement.
@Adam– No, the Superintendent didn’t share any inside info with me. Why do you think he cancelled school? Just wanted to give the teachers a day off?
@Mike Striar – What’s up? You’ve posted that the city is paying teachers for a day off when the money could be better spent on shoveling sidewalks. (“Pennywise = Dollar foolish!”).
Both Newton Mom and Adam have pointed out that cancelling school today will not cost the city a single dollar in teacher’s salaries, there is no additional cost. Do you disagree?
I agree with those who say today could have been a delay. Since climate change means more frequent and extreme storms are the “new normal”, I wonder how we will respond to this in the coming years; just have more and more snow days every year? Or figure out a way to get kids to school even during moderate storms like today’s. (What do they do in northern New England and Canada? Would they have called school on a day like today?)
@Jerry– I didn’t intend to suggest in any way that the teacher’s pay “could be better spent on shoveling sidewalks.” My point was that teachers got paid for staying home today, and that would not have been the case if the sidewalks were clear.
As far as there being an additional cost in salary to the City, I don’t believe I said there was. Although, there are numerous additional costs associated with extending the school year. So I disagree with your contention that “there is no additional cost.”
Again, I’m just trying to provide some contrast. The City is not willing to plow the sidewalks, but is willing to pay teachers to stay home. You’re probably going to say that they’ll make up the day in June. But you also have to keep in mind that there are a certain amount of snow days built into the school calendar. So a missed day during the winter, does not necessarily result in the teachers making up every day they are paid to stay home.
What annoys me is that this might be the last storm that results in any more school cancellations, which will result in teachers being paid to stay home in August.
Now for my less flip answer:
@Mike. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Those five snow days are built into the 180 day calendar.
So, for example, if the last scheduled day of school is June 25 and we use only three of the five days, then the last day of school moves forward two days to (ignoring weekends to illustrate my point) June 23.
Conversely,if we have seven snow days, then two added days will be added to the school year and the last day of school would be June 27.
So Joe & Jane Teacher still stand in front of their class 180 days no matter how few or how many snow days we have because (ok, being flip again) someone didn’t shovel their sidewalks. And that’s why, if memory serves me correctly, school let out five full days earlier than scheduled last year because we had zero snow days.
That’s also why if you look at the school calender under June you’ll see the annotation (12 +5 days) because the days are added, but subtracted if they were not used.
That was my point, Greg… “a missed day during the winter does not necessarily result in the teachers making up every day they are paid to stay home.” I acknowledged there is no salary implication, so the “paid to stay home” part is admittedly gratuitous. My point was, if you don’t use the snow days, school gets out earlier. Are you saying one snow day results in one additional day of school? Because if that’s the case, I stand corrected.
I’m saying six snow days results in one additional day in June and four snow days results in one less.
And if you are sitting, you should now stand.
Hey, no fair editing your comments after you post them. My mistake. 180 days of school. I got it!
It had nothing to do with my original point… If the city had done the same job on the sidewalks that they did on the roads Monday night, school would have been open today.
Mike, sorry for the “quotes” earlier. The ones around “for free” were mine.
Ok, so counting aside, there’s still an enormous assumption on your part that sidewalks were the reason schools weren’t open today, or that this has ever been the gating factor. We’d all like to Tuesday-morning quarterback this one, but none of us knows why the decision was made, be it right or wrong. Rumor has it, a variety of factors are involved, including but not limited to roadway safety (for students andfor staff), preparation of school grounds and parking lots, and given that the decision must be made early morning, a good amount of guesswork. Yes, clear sidewalks should be a requirement, too. I’d like to kid myself and think that walking is the most important way for kids to get to school, even in good weather, but sadly the facts show quite the opposite.
Given the limited amount of information the school superintendent had to work with in the wee hours of the morning, sidewalk condition may not have played any part at all in the decision. There was a lot of snow by early morning and it wasn’t certain what time the snow would stop. At 5 a.m., it’s too early to know what condition the streets will be in during drive time. And even if the city plowed the sidewalks, that takes time – no guarantee that it could be done in time for the school kids to catch their buses or walk to school.
In the almost ten years I have been on the BOA, not a winter goes by when I do not receive complaints about the sidewalks near the West Newton Fire Station, which are the responsibility of the DPW to clear. After every storm with more than an inch or two, commuters who take the Green Line, from Woodland, or the Commuter Rail or Express Bus from West Newton, must walk in the right turn lane on Washington Street between Angier Circle and Comm Ave to get to and from work. The house on the corner does not clear its sidewalk and it usually takes several days to a week for DPW to get to it. Commuters often leave and return when it is dark, particularly in the morning now because of Daylight Saving Time. It is only a matter of time before a pedestrian gets hit by a car turning right at that intersection. If it is still blocked today, I will be back on the phone with Aaron Goldman trying to get it attended to, but that still does not solve the problem of a homeowner who is either ignoring or unable to fulfill his/her civic duty.
I held my nose and voted for a sidewalk shoveling ordinance that has no teeth and, frankly, doesn’t work. Total snowfall was heavier than usual this winter, but by no means extreme here in Newton, yet that sidewalk has not been clear for days or weeks at at time for most of the winter. I would love to see the city take back its responsibility to clear the sidewalks in this city, but there is no money for it in the current budget. And I heard the Mayor tell West Newton residents at the override town hall meeting that the Board of Aldermen would not impose fines in the near future (which was news to me, but, whatever). So no one really has any incentive to clear their sidewalks other than their sense of moral obligation to their community and their neighbors. And, sadly, that ain’t getting it done. My concern is that it will take a serious accident or a lawsuit by disabilities advocates–or both–to get some action on this issue.
I’ve always thought that the hardest decision the superintendent of schools has to make is whether to call a snow day. During the last snowstorm, as you’ll recall, the meteorologists were surprised by the amount of snow that fell and some school districts had problems because they didn’t call off school.
I grew up in Syracuse, NY where it didn’t matter if the sidewalks were shoveled. We wore snowpants and boots and tromped through the snow, which was often a lot deeper than it is here. (That’s not relevant to this conversation but after nearly 30 years of living in Boston, I’m still astounded by how intimidated we are by snow.)
I think Emily has a good point. Given the changing climate, it might be useful for the city and school administration to start rethinking how it deals with snow, both financially and tactically.
@Gail, if you were like me, you walked 6 miles to school each day–uphill both ways.
I grew up in the country west of Boston where we had lots of snow and no sidewalks to speak of. But Newton is a city, with sidewalks, pedestrian, bicycle and vehicular traffic, commuters, public transportation and neighborhood schools that parents drive their kids to, contributing to the traffic congestion. I want walkable school routes, and part of that is sidewalk snow removal. There was great hope that the sidewalk snow removal ordinance would make it possible for children to walk to school year round, but that hope remains unfulfilled. I also want commuters to be able to get to their trains, buses and trolleys safely without having to walk in the street because the state, city and homeowners are not clearing snow from the sidewalks.
I also grew up in the Boston area, and we had school ALOT during snow storms. I also went to schools that were the age of Angier. . . and in June, those buildings are HOT HOT HOT. So, yes, my parents (mom mostly) drove me to school in snow storms, but I did not have to roast in a building in late, late June. Angier is SO super hot daily, and the last week of June is going to be HARD for those students and teachers in that building (and probably Cabot).
My mom once or twice refused to drive me in a snow storm, and I stayed home with my sibling. It was her call. As a parent you can keep your kids home. I keep my kids out of school on the second day of Rosh Hashana. I didn’t go to college classes during high holidays. I learned how to catch up.
If we are going to have more and more stronger storms, it is time to RETHINK how we get to school. On the second day of Sandy, life had returned to normal for MOST (not all) Newton residents, however the schools were closed (nothing had to shoveled). We need to be flexible . . . we need to slow down when driving. . . . we need to use our heads.
As an aside, I have been to Alaska, and when I asked a resident there about no school days. . . .. he just looked at me like I was crazy. He said that they get the kids to school and the only days that the parents don’t drive. . . . is when the wind is blowing over 75 mph . . . then the police pick up the kids (each class has 8 kids, and each grade has one class). There is ALWAYS school up there. . . . .
Ted Hess-Mahan – I’m happy to see you publicly call out the specific property owner that’s shirking their responsibility and causing the problem. You’re right that the toothless shoveling ordinance isn’t having much effect. The folks who always shoveled are still shoveling. The folks that never did, mostly still aren’t since there’s no penalties.
Here’s two simple things that I’d like to see done:
* I understand from talking to Alicia Bowman, the city’s Pedestrian Coordinator, that there are fines for commercial properties that don’t shovel but not for homeowners. Many of the most egregious and longest (at least in our neighborhood) unshoveled sidewalks are the responsibility of condo complexes. They are treated as home owners (no fines) rather than commercial (fines). Alicia suggested that a significant improvement would be to re-classify condo complexes for the purposes of the snow shoveling ordinance.
* Wall of shame – if there are no teeth in the ordinance, than set up a Wall of Shame on the city web site, the Tab or here on Village14 and let citizens post photos, details, and addresses of property’s that just refuse to shovel. Perhaps, calling a little personalized attention to the minority of people who just ignore their responsibilities could cause some modest improvement.
… and yes Mike, I know that none of this would be necessary if we just had the city plow every sidewalk in the city. These are just modest suggestions to deal with today’s situation. I don’t foresee the budget and political will being available any time soon for expanding city services to cover citywide sidewalk plowing.
Here’s my contribution to the Snow Shoveling Wall of Shame. Here’s a photo taken of the sidewalk in front of the Chestnut Grove Condo complex on Chestnut St in Upper Falls THREE WEEKS after the big storm. From what I hear, the condo association is claiming that’s the city’s responsibility (sounds very doubtful to me). Whether its the condo association or the city’s responsibility, they both should be embarrassed that this very long stretch of sidewalk on our biggest street was left impassable for three weeks. Shame on you!
I’m 76. We have our driveway plowed, but I still shovel my own sidewalk. I’ve said this before, but it deserves repeating. There is no way to make all our sidewalks safe for pedestrians under every storm condition. Regulation should be tempered with caution and common sense on the part of the City and pedestrians who use these walkways after a storm.
The problem arises when a late evening snow is followed by rain and then a deep freeze. I find this happens more than once during a really tough winter. There is no way to remove this combination with a shovel and even a snow blower has a tough time contending with it. Even then, there is often a thick coat of ice on the surface. I agree with Jerry that better enforcement is in order; all I’m saying from personal observation is that there are times when adverse weather conditions make it virtually impossible to have safe sidewalks. Just about every sidewalk between my house and Newton Highlands square has been shoveled during the last several storms, but they were still hazardous to walk on because of the melting and freezing combination that made them icy and slippery.
I’d like to second what Jerry said about condos – this is a huge problem in my neighborhood, too. On my street the sidewalk is walkable until you hit the condos on the corner. Condo developments can use condo fees to hire someone to do snow clearing, and should be treated the same as the commercial developments.
Can we also fine the city for all their properties that don’t get shoveled? 😉
Wow, I’m blown away by some of the ideas I’m reading on this thread. A “wall of shame?” Is that really the type of relationship local government should have with residents? Punishment by humiliation? Yikes!
And frankly, the thought of attaching fines to the residential shoveling ordinance disgusts me. Not the concept, but the reality of who is going to get whacked by the fines. Some of you folks are completely lacking in empathy. There are a lot of elderly people in Newton who live week-to-week, hand-to-mouth, barely surviving. You may remember we hit those folks with a new tax increase just last week. I’m talking about people who are too physically impaired to shovel, and who can’t afford to pay someone to shovel for them. Gee whiz Mr. & Mrs. 75-Year Old, we know we squeezed you one step closer to extinction with that override thing, but now we’re going to fine you because you didn’t get your lazy asses out there to shovel the City sidewalk.
Holy crap, don’t you folks get it??? There are people living in this City who quite literally cannot physically do this work, and can’t afford to pay someone to do it for them. Worse, there are people who should not shovel because of their health, but will try to shovel, because they’re worried about having to pay a fine. It’s amazing to me we live in a community that on one level acknowledges elderly residents with deferred property taxes, only to turn around and punish them for their inabilities. Disgusting!!!
The one thing we all agree on, we want clear sidewalks. If that’s the objective, then the City should be plowing the sidewalks along every major pedestrian route. That’s the way to improve this situation. Don’t give me the bullshit that we can’t afford it. We just raised property taxes through an override proposition that didn’t even bother to include sidewalk snow clearing funds. This is not a case of affordability. It’s a case of priorities.
If there is going to be an official “Wall of Shame” for Newton I’d love to contribute some photographs of all the parents who cannot read the “no left turn” when pulling into and out of Newton North High School, the many drivers who exit the parking lot behind CVS in Newton Centre into oncoming traffic, and all the summer bathers who ignore the “NO SWIMMING” signs at Crystal Lake. Seems like there are more than enough examples of inconsiderate behavior all around to end up on that “Wall of Shame”. (shrug)
Mike Striar
OK Mike, let’s leave the city out of it – the Village14 Wall of Shame.
I have a great deal of empathy for elderly homeowners who aren’t able to shovel. My candidate for the Wall of Shame is not an elderly homeowner, its a condo complex (or possibly the city)
@mike . . . that is part of home ownership is shoveling. . . . the people that you write about who can’t shovel due to health and can’t afford to shovel themselves out. . . who shovels their driveways or front walks? Right now some one is.
We are lucky that one of our neighbors, is willing to snowblow a few of the neighbor’s sidewalks because the owner CANT. But for years she PAID for a service.
The condos. . . . well they should be ashamed of themselves. They pay for a company to shovel and plow. . . . THEIR PROPERTY so why not shovel the sidewalks. I shovel myself out. . . and my corner lot sidewalks (unless the city dumps 8 feet of snow on the corner). Then if we can we will shovel a path on our own LAWN so kids don’t have to get into the street. But I know there aren’t many of us kind folks left. There are PLENTY of people who don’t brush off their car roofs! I was nearly hit by one of those people yesterday (the guy SPED into the street from a parking lot with his SUV, spun a 360, and as he was breaking down a hill, the snow from his roof COVERED his barely wiped windshield. – Cleary someone that didn’t care about others on the roof) He is not the only guy on the road like that.
But are you willing to pay MORE in taxes for someone to shovel the sidewalks? If we don’t have enough in the budget to cover the increase in our numbers in the public schools, and we can’t clear the roads for school, how will the city PAY for shoveling all of our sidewalks.
Mike – In our neighborhood, it’s some of the biggest, fanciest houses that don’t shovel. Some, of whom I know are snow birds.
I owe an apology to the two condo complexes in our neighborhood that I have been publicly dumping on. Here’s the map of which sidewalks the city is responsible for.
Both of the condo sidewalks in our neighborhood that never get plowed are actually city responsibilities.
On a closer look …. no, Chestnut Grove condos is indeed responsible for their own sidewalk. The city is only responsible for the opposite side of Chestnut Street.
Sorry for the multiple conflicting posts.
The physically limited/cash strapped resident is taken care of … The aldermen establishd a process for residents to apply for a waiver if they are both physically unable to clear and financially unable to pay someone to do it. Thanks to Jayne Colino at the Senior Center this process is working pretty well. For the past two years approximately 5o households have been granted a waiver from clearing. We still are short of volunteers to meet the need but these 50 residences are not what is making the city difficult to navigate after a storm. The problem is the thousands of residents that don’t ever walk or are never home that are the problem. Three days after NEMO, I was in the Bigelow neighborhood. There was not one uncleared driveway but most of the sidewalks were untouched. Where would you like the students to walk, in Sargent, on Cabot down Park or Franklin? These are streets where cars are moving fast. This is also a neighborhood with big homes that never have a leaf out of place in the fall but can’t pay their landscapers the extra money to clear the sidewalks too? Maybe if there were fines residents would take the responsiblity to clear their walks in a timely manner for the safety and convenience of all. If collected fines were used to pay to clear the sidewalks for those who have been granted waivers, even better.
@Lucia– That’s because we live in a neighborhood filled with the “biggest, fanciest houses.” Your implication is that those homeowners can afford to clear the sidewalks in front of their homes. So let’s just assume you’re correct. That would also mean they can afford to pay the fine. Play that scenario out a bit… How does that result in clear sidewalks? Those who can afford it will either shovel or pay the fine. With a lot of the homes you’re referring to, the fine will be the cheaper option. I pay between $100-$250 per storm to clear the sidewalk in front of my house. If the fine is $100 and we get a big storm, that policy would actually incentivize me to not clear my sidewalk. Of course I’d do it anyway, because it’s the right thing to do, and fortunately I can afford it. But there are a heck of a lot of people in Newton who are living on the edge. Many of them elderly. Someone has to advocate for them. Try sticking those folks with a fine, and I’m going down swinging.
Beyond the issue of fines, is the real issue of “clear” sidewalks. Take a look at some of these sidewalks as you drive [or try to walk around town]. A large majority of the sidewalks that have been shoveled don’t even come close to accessibility standards under ADA, and are so narrow that two people could not pass each other. In a city with a $300M budget that just passed 3 overrides last week, this is as clear a policy failure as you can get. It’s evident in every village and on nearly every road in Newton. We must stop fooling ourselves with this bucket-brigade approach to sidewalk snow clearing. It does not meet our obligation to those who are dependent on clear sidewalks. The only way we are ever going to solve this problem is by a coordinated approach with mechanized equipment. Continuing to tout a shoveling ordinance as a solution, has proven to be counterproductive to the objective. People must pressure local government to live up to its obligation and clear the sidewalks along all major pedestrian routes.
Mike – I’m one of the people who cannot shovel for myself; I pay someone to do it (and, no, they didn’t show up yesterday though they are usually reliable). I was not endorsing the wall of shame. I do endorse enforcing having condos shovel.
Actually, I do endorse the wall of shame for corporate entities (business, condo assocs, city of Newton).
I don’t know if the city has been clear on this, but even if a sidewalk plow goes by a particular property, the shoveling ordinance ought to take precedence. @Mike, this is how it works even in that community you referenced which does all the plowing (was it Rochester, NY?) which advertised the sidewalk plow service as a first pass, not some sort of housekeeping service. We should do the same in Newton, even for our limited sidewalk clearing.
Ultimately, property owners are going to have to prevent ice buildup, clear out curb cuts, or in some cases clean up snow that gets deposited after the plow or remain if the plow doesn’t do a perfect job. Right now, that rarely happens. People on those routes think they’ve been given a pass…
@mgwa– I agree. I have no issue with requiring businesses and condo/apartments to clear sidewalks. But I’m worried about folks like you, who do the right thing by hiring someone to clear the sidewalk. If they don’t show up in the allotted time period, you would get fined. Then you end up paying someone to shovel, and a fine. Unfair! I’m even more worried about the people who are not physically capable of shoveling, and can’t afford to pay someone to do it for them.
@Adam– It was Neal Fleisher who called Rochester to our attention. I agree with you that homeowners have a role to play. I agree that the City should ask for their help. There’s a difference between asking and demanding. When municipal government makes this kind of demand of otherwise law abiding taxpayers, I believe it crosses the line of civility and respect.
@Mike Striar – BTW, you posted a note vehemently objecting to people in this thread suggesting fines for home owners before anyone had suggested that. After your post, someone did recommend fines for home owners. So I’m beginning to think you have psychic powers 😉
@Jerry– Psychic powers? No. Psychotic powers… absolutely!
If there was a fine, it could pay for the city clearing the sidewalk. This is how it is done in Madison, WI. If a homeowner doesn’t clear their walk, they are sent a warning to clear within something like 24 hours. If they don’t, the city clears their walk and the fine pays for the city’s work.
I’m all for the city treating sidewalks as transportation routes as important as roads and clearing them too. I don’t care how the sidewalks get cleared – property owner or city – as long as they get cleared.
Like Alicia said, almost all residences/businesses with uncleared sidewalks have perfectly cleared driveways (except for the snowbirds).
@Mike, somehow people manage to get their driveways cleared within 30 hours of the storm. Sidewalks shouldn’t be any different. And you can keep arguing against the ordinance citing those who are physically unable to shovel and can’t afford to hire someone, but the fact is that they are exempt, as Alicia said.
Take a close look at Rochester’s site. They still place the final responsibility on the “law abiding taxpayer”. Sorry for the quotation marks again.
@Adam– While we don’t disagree on the objective, we’re going to continue to disagree on the means. I believe the City should be plowing sidewalks along all the major pedestrian routes. Perhaps more significantly, I believe a large part of this difference of opinion boils down to our individual interpretations of the role of municipal government, and the government’s relationship with the citizenry. We’re just too far apart to find common ground on that issue. Baring any late season storms, we can pick up the debate again next winter.
I’m out of town all week. There was a snowstorm. I do my own driveway and sidewalk when it snows. I couldn’t this week. I should be fined because I work that requires travel? This snow shoveling ordinance is the most moronic idea since New Coke.
Mike, I really thought that was the common ground. I’m genuinely interested in the Rochester example.
Mike, I thought you were pushing for plowing all sidewalks rather than “all major pedestrian routes”. All major pedestrian routes I think is a reasonable goal, of course defining what that includes could be open to wildly different interpretation.
Take a look at this map of what the city now plows. Its a pretty good first cut at “all major pedestrian routes”. One significant point worth noting is that they plow one side of the street on all these routes. I think that’s a reasonable approach – you may have to cross the street but it cuts the city’s expense in half.
I think if we hold the city to reliably plowing these routes (sometimes they haven’t completed them all). If we prevent home owners from blocking the sidewalks after the city has plowed (they often do). If we fine tune that list of streets with some input from the residents of each village. Then I think we’d be striking a pretty effective, practical, and economic compromise that would enable us to get around on foot in the winter time.
@Kim: I travel, and I have neighbors that shovel for me when I’m away and I shovel for them when they aren’t able to. There are also PLENTY of services that will clear your snow for a fee. One’s house is one’s responsibility even if you aren’t in it, and that goes for the snowbirds.
As for the “Elderly” argument, I don’t buy it. In my neighborhood, you have to get up earlier than Ted Hess-Mahan to be able to shovel the walk of the house that can’t do it themselves. Someone will always beat you to it. And thank you to Alicia for pointing out the program that the City runs. There just isn’t any reason for uncleared sidewalks.
@Jerry, not everyone is on foot. Unfortunately, your proposal fails the ADA requirement. I still like Rochester’s implication that the resident is ultimately responsible, that the plow service is a city-provided supplement to do the heavy lifting. I’d like to hear more about how it works in practice.
@Barbara, Most contractors seem to be interested in what they can accomplish quickly without doing work by hand. I think it is still difficult to find people to just shovel sidewalks or clear smaller driveways for a reasonable fee, or at all. The city needs to do a lot better with its non-volunteer list. There’s a huge opportunity there to match services with a public need. Between kids home from school and others looking for supplemental income during the winter months, there ought to be an ample supply of labor.
@Jerry– That’s the way to find common ground. And the map shows what the City is capable of doing, although they’re not plowing [or effectively plowing] all the routes on that map. If they added more routes [Comm. Ave is kind of a no-brainer], and did a better job, it would be a significant step toward fixing the problem. As Adam points out, plowing one side doesn’t meet ADA requirements. But the fact is, there’s not a sidewalk in the City that meets ADA standards under the shoveling ordinance, [with the possible exception of village centers]. Take a close look at the sidewalks that are shoveled. Many of them are one shovel blade wide. Even two shovel blades wide does not meet ADA. That’s why I believe we need a mechanized, coordinated, citywide effort, if we’re really going to solve the problem.
@Adam – It wasn’t a proposal. I was describing what the city does now in the way of sidewalk plowing and suggesting a few improvements.
@Adam – I’ve been able to find snow plow contractors willing to also shovel the sidewalk (costs extra, of course). They have to get out of the plow anyway, since I need them to shovel my stairs and a path from the door to the car. There have been some years where the contractor I used wasn’t good about shoveling the sidewalk, in which case I found someone new for the next year (it’s next to impossible to find someone during the season). It can be difficult finding a good contractor – ask neighbors who they use, plus ask at the hardware stores.
Barbara,
The sidewalk isn’t my house. It’s not my property.
@Kim: The sidewalk may not be your property, but if you choose to live in a community with sidewalks, clearing them is part of the deal. Emphasis on COMMUNITY. Are persons with disabilities, parents with kids in strollers, the elderly or anyone who reasonably doesn’t want to slip and kill themselves condemmed to a winter inside because they can’t navigate through the snow? You mow your lawn, you rake your leaves, you shovel your snow.
@Adam: Post Road. They’re awesome. We were travelling during the huge storm in Feb, they shoveled out our walk and path to the house by hand and came back the next day to clear again the crud at the end of the driveway.
My letter carrier, Matthew, told me that Newton had the highest incidence of winter postal worker accidents in the state. I’ve tried to get supporting documentation on that, but unfortunately haven’t been able to locate it. It bears considering, nonetheless.
@Adam – The city also put together a list (scroll to bottom) of available snow shovelers this winter – mostly teenagers I think.
@Barbara– What “deal” are you referring to? When I moved to Newton the deal was that the City plowed the sidewalks and the residents paid for it through property taxes. Just last week we passed an override raising those property taxes, but failed to address sidewalk snow-clearing. Kim lives on a major pedestrian route that the City should be plowing. Do you feel the City has any culpability?
If I may add to the Wall of Shame: developers who buy homes to tear down or build mega-additions, leave the property for most or all of the winter, and plow only the part of the property that serves their needs, and never shovel the walks.
Thank goodness spring has arrived – it’s the only way to end this conversation. Let’s face it, by the third week in March we are all so done snow.
Jane – what is this spring of which you speak?
Jane –
You’re right, it’s almost time to start talking about swim-at-your-own in Crystal Lake 😉
@Jerry, that’s my point. The list (a 3 page PDF with two pages of repetitive content from the website? really newtonma.gov?) is inadequate, as well as the process to get on the list (paper form + US mail) It should be stupidly easy to register as well as to find someone to shovel. Kids should be registered as well as contractors, handymen, etc. I think we can do better.
I don’t need someone to shovel, btw, just suggesting that many people in this city would have trouble finding someone to do the task.
There are a number of areas in Newton with no sidewalks. My neighbor on one side has no sidewalk, nor do the four houses after him. I have sidewalk (and I’m quite particular in clearing it) as do the four or so houses going the other direction. But then there’s another long stretch after that with no sidewalk. Are the non-sidewalk houses supposed to clear? Shovel the grass?
@DFols– Those people without sidewalks will probably have to perform some sort of alternate service for the government. Perhaps they could sweep the streets, pick up trash in the parks, or paint City Hall. Of course I’m being sarcastic, [sort of].
As the snow removal ordinance is presently written, every owner or occupant of a building or lot of land abutting an unpaved sidewalk is exempt from snow and ice removal from the sidewalk and handicap access ramps within 30 hours after storm has ceased.
This makes little sense since an unpaved sidewalk is harder to transverse for the elderly and handicapped even when there is no snow. This is another example of a poorly structured ordinance.
Streets were fine. Sadly people living in giant houses decided that the law didn’t apply to them, so they barely shoveled their sidewalks.