I had a breakfast meeting there the other day, and the food was terrific. As a follow up to a previous thread on parking, you may notice that the diner looks somewhat empty. That is because a limited number of parking spaces were “grandfathered” in from the KFC/Taco Bell, which was primarily a fast food restaurant rather than a sit down restaurant. Consequently, Rox Diner will have to come in for a special permit if it wants to add tables/seats.
Yet another reason to reduce or eliminate Newton’s excessively stringent parking requirements, or adopt payments-in-lieu-of-parking.”
Not a fan of MCAS
on May 19, 2012 at 11:53 am
@Ted, were you in the same restaurant that I have been going to for the last several months? It is never empty. There are waits up to an hour for a table. Why would they add tables? The interior is already designed very well, and there is plenty of seating. What parking spaces were “grandfathered” in from KFC? There is plenty of on-street meter parking, and the Auburn Street public parking lot is around the corner. There are no reserved spots for the Rox. Also, it is a convenient location for walkers from Newton North and residents of Newtonville.
Mike Striar
on May 19, 2012 at 12:17 pm
I eat out for breakfast almost everyday. Been eating at the Rox 3 times a week. Far and away the best breakfast of any Newton restaurant.
There are waits up to an hour for a table. Why would they add tables?
Why would they add tables? Maybe so the waits wouldn’t be up to an hour?
Ted Hess-Mahan
on May 19, 2012 at 1:44 pm
@NAFOMCAS: Perhaps I was unclear. I agree with you that the tables are always full. There is, however, empty space for more tables in the restaurant and when it first opened, Rox Diner had more tables, but was required to remove some of them by the city. My understanding is that the owners would very much like to have more tables because it is so busy all the time.
The city’s parking requirements are that restaurants must have one parking space for every three customers and enough for staff. A restaurant which has no parking spaces can apply for a parking waiver special permit from the Board of Aldermen. If a restaurant that has no onsite parking is replacing a previous use, such as another restaurant, it receives a credit for the parking spaces that were required by the previous use which go toward satisfying the parking requirement. So, if a restaurant has 45 seats and 5 staff per shift it requires 20 parking spaces (45/3 + 5 = 20). If the previous restaurant on the same site had 30 seats and 5 staff at any one time, the new restaurant would receive 15 credits (30/3 + 5 = 15) and would only need a parking waiver of 5 spaces. In other words, those 15 spaces are “grandfathered” in. These “grandfathered” spaces are also called “phantom” spaces since they do not exist on site. To get a special permit for a parking waiver, the petitioner needs to demonstrate that there is enough parking in the area to satisfy the need. The Land Use committee and the Board of Aldermen will rely on parking space counts, parking studies, and anecdotal evidence about the availability of parking to decide whether this need can be satisfied by offsite parking. Needless to say, this is a complicated and pretextual calculation.
My idea for payments-in-lieu-of-parking is to have a market based rate for each parking space required, which a restaurant for example could pay to the city in order to obtain a parking waiver. Rather than having to apply for a special permit, this would be an administrative process which the inspectional services and planning departments could conduct, making it simpler and easier for businesses to obtain the necessary permit. The money would be used in that neighborhood for improvements which would reduce the need for parking, including making it more pedestrian and bicycle friendly, purchasing parking meters, and other types of parking management.
Sorry for the confusion. I hope that clears things up for you.
Not a fan of MCAS
on May 19, 2012 at 2:09 pm
@Ted, thank you for the clear explanation. I get it now.
@Greg, I can’t imagine another table getting squeezed into the Rox. It’s not a matter of a long wait, it’s just not enough square feet to add any extra tables.
The Rox Diner isn’t allowing “empty” space to remain empty just because the City of Newton imposed some number of required parking spaces. The entire restaurant is set up, and the tables are less than 2 feet apart.
They do accept reservations. Now that the weather is nice, people waiting for tables are hanging outside, enjoying the scene, and yes, socializing.
@Ted, if when the Rox opened, they had more tables that had to be removed, I can’t imagine where they were. In the waiting area, there is one small space that could sit 2-3 people.
Dan Fahey
on May 20, 2012 at 8:59 pm
@ Not a fan,
What Ted is saying is that there were in fact more tables in there at the outset [along the window to your left as you walk in [3 or 4 tables for two]. For a small restaurant space, losing those tables was a big deal.
I live right around the corner, and i can say there is plenty of available parking, including on the side streets right there.
fignewtonville
on May 21, 2012 at 10:50 am
I love the place. It definitely had 4 or 5 more tables in the beginning. And I completely agree that it is counterproductive to have our restuarants tied to an antiquated parking requirement.
That said, I have to admit, service at the Rox is stretched to a the max as it is. My wife and I love the food, but we’ve been in the restaurant quite a few times and witnessed (and experienced) service snafus. They seem to be getting worse, not better, in that regard. I’m hoping that some of it is because when they lost of those tables they reduced staff. But it seems there are lots of waiters a lot of the time, but there is lots of confusion in the kitchen and among the waitstaff.
Also, if they could handle it, I’d love for places in Newtonville like the Rox to have more outdoor seating. It is a shame to be a corner restaurant and have no patio or outside area.
Sean
on May 21, 2012 at 11:36 am
Can’t stress enough how important Ted’s work has been on the subject of parking minimums. He has been at the front of the effort to grant parking waivers to various establishments in Newton Centre, with no adverse effect. He gets it.
Unfortunately, the process to request a parking waiver takes time and effort. At least two more Newton Centre restaurants could fit and use more seating. Do they really need to go through the hassle. What’s needed is zoning reform that lifts the minimums, and in the meantime a zoning holiday for this particular obligation.
I had a breakfast meeting there the other day, and the food was terrific. As a follow up to a previous thread on parking, you may notice that the diner looks somewhat empty. That is because a limited number of parking spaces were “grandfathered” in from the KFC/Taco Bell, which was primarily a fast food restaurant rather than a sit down restaurant. Consequently, Rox Diner will have to come in for a special permit if it wants to add tables/seats.
Yet another reason to reduce or eliminate Newton’s excessively stringent parking requirements, or adopt payments-in-lieu-of-parking.”
@Ted, were you in the same restaurant that I have been going to for the last several months? It is never empty. There are waits up to an hour for a table. Why would they add tables? The interior is already designed very well, and there is plenty of seating. What parking spaces were “grandfathered” in from KFC? There is plenty of on-street meter parking, and the Auburn Street public parking lot is around the corner. There are no reserved spots for the Rox. Also, it is a convenient location for walkers from Newton North and residents of Newtonville.
I eat out for breakfast almost everyday. Been eating at the Rox 3 times a week. Far and away the best breakfast of any Newton restaurant.
Why would they add tables? Maybe so the waits wouldn’t be up to an hour?
@NAFOMCAS: Perhaps I was unclear. I agree with you that the tables are always full. There is, however, empty space for more tables in the restaurant and when it first opened, Rox Diner had more tables, but was required to remove some of them by the city. My understanding is that the owners would very much like to have more tables because it is so busy all the time.
The city’s parking requirements are that restaurants must have one parking space for every three customers and enough for staff. A restaurant which has no parking spaces can apply for a parking waiver special permit from the Board of Aldermen. If a restaurant that has no onsite parking is replacing a previous use, such as another restaurant, it receives a credit for the parking spaces that were required by the previous use which go toward satisfying the parking requirement. So, if a restaurant has 45 seats and 5 staff per shift it requires 20 parking spaces (45/3 + 5 = 20). If the previous restaurant on the same site had 30 seats and 5 staff at any one time, the new restaurant would receive 15 credits (30/3 + 5 = 15) and would only need a parking waiver of 5 spaces. In other words, those 15 spaces are “grandfathered” in. These “grandfathered” spaces are also called “phantom” spaces since they do not exist on site. To get a special permit for a parking waiver, the petitioner needs to demonstrate that there is enough parking in the area to satisfy the need. The Land Use committee and the Board of Aldermen will rely on parking space counts, parking studies, and anecdotal evidence about the availability of parking to decide whether this need can be satisfied by offsite parking. Needless to say, this is a complicated and pretextual calculation.
My idea for payments-in-lieu-of-parking is to have a market based rate for each parking space required, which a restaurant for example could pay to the city in order to obtain a parking waiver. Rather than having to apply for a special permit, this would be an administrative process which the inspectional services and planning departments could conduct, making it simpler and easier for businesses to obtain the necessary permit. The money would be used in that neighborhood for improvements which would reduce the need for parking, including making it more pedestrian and bicycle friendly, purchasing parking meters, and other types of parking management.
Sorry for the confusion. I hope that clears things up for you.
@Ted, thank you for the clear explanation. I get it now.
@Greg, I can’t imagine another table getting squeezed into the Rox. It’s not a matter of a long wait, it’s just not enough square feet to add any extra tables.
The Rox Diner isn’t allowing “empty” space to remain empty just because the City of Newton imposed some number of required parking spaces. The entire restaurant is set up, and the tables are less than 2 feet apart.
They do accept reservations. Now that the weather is nice, people waiting for tables are hanging outside, enjoying the scene, and yes, socializing.
@Ted, if when the Rox opened, they had more tables that had to be removed, I can’t imagine where they were. In the waiting area, there is one small space that could sit 2-3 people.
@ Not a fan,
What Ted is saying is that there were in fact more tables in there at the outset [along the window to your left as you walk in [3 or 4 tables for two]. For a small restaurant space, losing those tables was a big deal.
I live right around the corner, and i can say there is plenty of available parking, including on the side streets right there.
I love the place. It definitely had 4 or 5 more tables in the beginning. And I completely agree that it is counterproductive to have our restuarants tied to an antiquated parking requirement.
That said, I have to admit, service at the Rox is stretched to a the max as it is. My wife and I love the food, but we’ve been in the restaurant quite a few times and witnessed (and experienced) service snafus. They seem to be getting worse, not better, in that regard. I’m hoping that some of it is because when they lost of those tables they reduced staff. But it seems there are lots of waiters a lot of the time, but there is lots of confusion in the kitchen and among the waitstaff.
Also, if they could handle it, I’d love for places in Newtonville like the Rox to have more outdoor seating. It is a shame to be a corner restaurant and have no patio or outside area.
Can’t stress enough how important Ted’s work has been on the subject of parking minimums. He has been at the front of the effort to grant parking waivers to various establishments in Newton Centre, with no adverse effect. He gets it.
Unfortunately, the process to request a parking waiver takes time and effort. At least two more Newton Centre restaurants could fit and use more seating. Do they really need to go through the hassle. What’s needed is zoning reform that lifts the minimums, and in the meantime a zoning holiday for this particular obligation.