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On a prior thread here, former School Committee member Geoff Epstein informs us that he’s leaving Newton but that he’s also terribly disillusioned by the way the Zervis Zervas School project has unfolded. Oh and he’s also “totally disappointed” with Mayor Setti Warren (for many reasons, he tells us elsewhere) and not happy with School Committee Chair Matt Hills or the rest of the committee either. Here’s how Epstein begins his post…
The moral of this story is that no-one should ever vote for an operating override with capital projects in it. They should be split out into debt exclusions.
Later he adds…
My service on the SC has been book ended by two projects. The dreadful Newton North at the start and the potentially dreadful Zervas at the end.
And there’s this…
I am totally disappointed in the Mayor for allowing this project to proceed as it has and in the SC, under the leadership of Matt Hills, who was the architect of inserting Zervas into the operating override. Which is the cause of all of these problems.
oh and this..
I have spent almost 24 years living in Newton and I was hoping that by my departure real change would have occurred in the relationship between the citizenry and its government.
I’m not going to go into the merits of the Zervas project here. There’s two other active threads happening on this site for that right now. But I do feel compelled to address another issue and that’s the hypocrisy of a man who apparently has spent close to a decade giving Newton voters bad advice.
Epstein– some will recall — ran for the School Committee promising to enact change and served for three terms. He also strongly supported Setti Warren during his first campaign for mayor (and as far as I know, Warren’s reelection last fall as well). And just a few months ago he repeatedly proclaimed how happy he was that Matt Hills was to become School Committee chair and how this signaled a “sea change” for the very school committee he’s now “totally disappointed in.”
Oh and, yes, as you’ll see from the video above (UPDATE HERE), Epstein was a very strong voice in support of the very tax override (which would “add space at Zervis”) that he’s now blaming as being at the root of what he now calls “this Zervas madness.”
Rather than explaining or even acknowledging his multiple changes of heart, Espstein says that while he’s leaving Newton he’ll be back to help fight against the very “mega school” that he asked us to support during the override.
… this Zervas madness has to be stopped, so [if] it comes to a citywide citizen vote of any kind to stop the mega school, you can still count me in for a ton of help with any flyer campaign.
But really, isn’t “the moral of this story” that one should ignore Geoff Esptein’s political endorsements?
Instead of throwing more grenades, shouldn’t he instead be apologizing for being an ineffectual School Committee member who has repeatedly given voters advice he presumably now regrets?
He doesn’t need to apologize to me; I certainly didn’t cast my votes based on anything Geoff Epstein wrote or said.
But, yes, he’s contradicting himself.
Geoff Epstein has nothing to apologize for. He’s done more to face the truth about Newton’s horrendous school space problems than anyone on the school committee in his tenure. Instead of criticizing him for postings that contradict previous positions, Greg should criticize those still holding to the wrong positions. If you put down somebody for figuring out the truth, you discourage anyone else from following suit and eventually having a majority on the correct side.
Brian, there’s nothing wrong with discovering “the truth” and changing your mind. There is, however, something wrong with discovering “the truth,” disclaiming what you said previously, and criticizing others who said the same thing you were saying.
If Geoff had just said, “Yeah, I was part of that same pitch. But we were so focused on passing all three questions that I didn’t realize just how big a building we were talking about.”
Or, “I wasn’t paying attention in all the meetings where we talked about the building being 80K square feet.”
Or, “I didn’t attend any of the mayor’s Town Halls or read any of the literature.”
Or, “I was wrong.”
If he thinks the city is making a mistake, he can say so without pointing fingers. He deserves to have fingers pointed back at him.
Geoff, you know the familiar Newton saying, NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED. Not an easy thing to do , not many former SC members would challenge the ruling class. Let’s just hope they listen a bit and maybe learn to think more broadly about issues that affect everyone in Newton.
Right now they are defensive about their power and have closed their minds to anyone who challenges their decisions.
Many now regret having supported the override? I was a no voter and right now resisting temptation to say “you know what” (ITYS) to all of you who saw a fully clothed emperor. Sigh… I will say it again, “taxes are the opiate of government” and Our City needs rehab.
I respected Mr Epstein up until his most recent post where he said he didn’t run for the latest term because he might leave Newton. Since when did residence become a decision point? I might reconsider if he gives a better rational.
Always love to get these lovely posts from Greg!
I have to laugh. It’s a total riot from my end.
I’ll miss Greg’s edgy insanity and Gail’s backup affirmations.
But I do love the rest of you.
We have a great community.
Thanks, Brian, Colleen, Hoss, and everyone else.
It’s been a very interesting ride.
Greg, you should apologize for mis-spelling Zervas.
I’m more intrigued by Ald. Yates’ comments regarding the “wrong positions.” To whom is he referring, regarding what “wrong” positions? It’s one thing to disagree, but “wrong?” Please explain.
I apologize for mis-spelling Zervas.
@Geoff: I’ll miss it too. Best of luck with your move.
Yes Geoff, I think I know what you mean about a fun ride. Your learning curve must be substantial enough to write a book. Is it Politics 101 or perhaps Human Dynamics 101, maybe even Power Corrupts 101?
OK. So we are counting now.
Administration mouth pieces: Greg, Gail, Bill.
How many more will gather?
This is the classic Newton political madness we have become accustomed to.
Gail is already implying we had a precise building size in mind when the actual pitch never specified that. Here it is:
$ 2.4M – Debt service for either the expansion or construction of a new Zervas Elementary School, relocation for Fire Wire Division, renovation and reconstruction of Newton Centre Fire Station #3 and Fire Headquarters.
Classic Newton mud wrestling.
Oh, Geoff. I think after all these years I’m starting to understand you. The reason that you are able to argue both sides is that you don’t actually read or listen to the other person. Bill and I both posted this stuff on a different thread that you obviously ignore. Please look at the Zervas slide on this presentation about the override. This was given at the Town Halls. It says that Zervas will be 80,000 square feet. There are other such documents out there. Here’s a joint presentation to the School Committee and BOA on May 30, 2012 (I believe you were a SC member then) that states that Zervas will hold 450 students.
You were very clearly part of the discussions that stated that Zervas was going to grow significantly. Maybe you’ve changed your mind after listening to parents. You’re entitled. But just once, say so instead of accusing everybody else of being a bad guy.
For the record, I’m not arguing one way or another for Zervas. I don’t really care. I just think Geoff Epstein is the biggest disappointment I’ve ever seen in an elected official.
Note to all: The video above was removed by the user a few hours after it was posted. It was a campaign video featuring Geoff Epstein looking into the camera explaining enthusiastically why he is (was) supporting the override and voters should as well.
Among the main reasons he urged people to support all three overrides was to “add space” to Zervas.
It’s a shame that the person removed the video but it doesn’t change the fact that Epstein was a strong supporter of the overrides, including operating override that he now says contributed to the “Zervas madness.”
Knowing how often Geoff Epstein has said he supports transparency, I’d be disappointed if he removed it.
With respect, for those of us who aren’t in the middle of all the mudslinging, this article and the comments are a drag. The dowsing article was a little bit dry, too (pun intended). Many of us come to this website for some interesting news that doesn’t relate to Crimea or Malaysia Airlines 370 – I hate to say it, but for those of us not on the school committee, this week has been an an anomalous snoozefest on Village14.
Looking forward to next week though!
I did not support the ORs but I understood why Geoff did and I did not hold that against him. He did not disappoint me because he made his case which was constructive.
Now Geoff strongly believes that the plans for Zervas are misguided for well stated reasons. He may have felt the OR funds for Zervas were reasonable many months ago . Now he believes differently for very plausible justification which clearly make sense as the costs have sky rocketed out of control.
Geoff’s actions are not wrong but rather in the best interest of the community. Many people support his actions and will continue to appreciate his dedication to city gov’t.
Gail and Greg,
I find these comments from you hilarious. First, Geoff is the only elected official whe remained true to himself. Yes, he makes mistakes, but if his name was setti warren or kennedy you’d all be gushing over him saying how wonderful he is. Second, aren’t you the ones when running the Tab who said that we shouldn’t build a new NNHS, then endorsed it and said we shouldnt have the override of 2008 then in ink supported it? (if my memory is wrong, I know there were events over the years where, as the head of the Tab, you changed your mind). Coming from you it sounds so hypocritical and disingenuous. He sees things with his eyes wide open, unlike most people in this community.
Also, do you and Greg ever disagree???
Tom,
I’m not sure about saying that we shouldn’t build North and then endorsing it. I am fairly certain that we endorsed North and then said it was a mistake. That’s what people do when they make mistakes. They acknowledge it. I don’t know why this is such a difficult concept: I don’t have a problem with Geoff changing his mind. I have a problem with him pointing fingers at people who were saying the same thing he was saying. For example, if I were to criticize others for endorsing North, I’d be a hypocrite. Instead, I said I was wrong to endorse it.
Yes, Greg and I disagree. We disagreed over some pretty important endorsements. I don’t know what we disagree about these days because we don’t check in with each other before posting.
@Tom: At least we never removed our editorials, videos or any other content we created at the TAB. That’s just cowardly.
Gail Spector — In other parts of this state there has been an example of a school comm member pulling the bra off their fellow SC member (Abington); and clearly other higher level elected official have offenses such as felonies at a statewide level, over and over, repeated, without shame in Massachusetts, right? Why such a remark about this former public service member that is clearly moving on?
Gail,
I think that Geoff udertsands by changing his position is implying he was wrong. The problem with Newton politics is that we dont call people out enough. None of these people who cost us (the taxpayers) millions and millions of dollars ever get held accountable for their poor decision making. (this staement is a general statement, not a bashing or an endorsement over Zervas).
I also apologize for my last post if it came across mad, it wasn’t meant to be.
@Tom: If I recall, Gail’s editorial was something like, “shut up and build it” – referring to North. Something about finances can be looked at later – but the time had come to move forward. And forward we went. And the 2008 override – which many new was badly needed not only to “pay” for North, but to ensure that there were no unintended costs (like closing of branch libraries, and programmatic and service cuts), failed. Other than blaming Mayor Cohen, I don’t remember many apologies coming from those that endorsed the project for the failure of the override. But I am more than happy to stand corrected.
oops – should be a “k” in front of new. Very sorry.
amysangiolo, Newton did not need the 2008 override to “pay” for North and to ensure that there were no unintended costs (like closing of branch libraries, and programmatic and service cuts).
When the 2008 override failed, Bill Heck and Newton for Fiscal Responsibility submitted 10 specific initiatives that dealt with eliminating fiscal waste in order to avoid the threatened cuts. NFR followed up on it over the next year and city government did not even bother to implement any of those thoughtful initiatives.
Here’s why the override failed. There’s so many words and so few actions to describe this. Bill Heck talked this when he ran for Mayor in 2009. Bill said that Lenny Gentile spoke eloquently on the night the 2008 override was passed. Gentile said “Here we are asking the taxpayers for a $12M override. We asked them for an override in 2002 and we promised taxpayers we would control costs and get things in order. Gentile went on dramatically and said “And we have done NOTHING! NOTHING! for six years and there was no reason to ask for another override.”
“I just think Geoff Epstein is the biggest disappointment I’ve ever seen in an elected official.”
Seriously? (Patricia Campatelli? George Bush?)
Guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that; in terms of disappointing elected officials, Geoff doesn’t even make my top 1000. In fact, I am going to miss him tremendously. Honesty, integrity, compassion, unparalleled work ethic, fiscal responsibility, creative thinking, sense of humor, fearlessness… those are the attributes which define Geoff in my book.
Emily,
My expectations of George W. Bush were very low. He couldn’t disappoint me. And I’d never even heard of Patricia Campatelli until she started making headlines.
I can’t be disappointed in an elected official unless I had positive expectations at one time. The TAB endorsed Geoff on the front page. That’s how high my expectations were. Geoff is proof of how little one can accomplish by antagonizing your colleagues over and over. Even when there was a kernel of truth in what he said, he could never get further than preaching to the choir because he could never deliver his message without claiming there were bad guys out to ruin the schools.
But yes, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I have a busy day and can’t get tied up in this discussion any further.
It’s so Geoff Epstein to leave Newton. This is what he does. He didn’t like the way the Budget Subcommittee was going so he quit that. He doesn’t like the Zervas direction even though it’s not finalized and he quite Newton.
Geoff takes his ball and goes home. It’s only a matter of time before he denounces his citizenship. He’s a quitter not a fighter.
See ya Geoff. We won’t miss your weak ass at all.
One could have been for Question 1 on balance as the only option presented for adding *some* capacity (assembly space without doubling the capacity of the school) and addressing the condition of that particular building which is in need of renovation, plus all the other stuff that was bundled into that override, *despite* discomfort with how the Zervas project was inserted by *someone else* in late innings into the wrong kind of override. It’s also understandable for someone to later come to the realization that the trust involved in voting yes on that question was misplaced.
I think it’s great to have people in government who care enough to speak out when they think an issue warrants it, as long as they put out plenty of detailed information for people to chew on and decide for themselves. From Geoff’s posts it seems to me he’s done both. Even if one’s information is incomplete or wrong, as long as they’re trying to substantiate their points, I have no problem with it. Others can come forward with opposing cases based on the merits using countervailing facts and argument. That dialog helps the community and anyone that generates it should be commended.
I don’t know about the budget subcommittee thing, but I do know that taking a cheap shot at someone for making a personal decision about what home they choose to purchase is something to apologize for.
@Steven Feinstein
All true in concept, but not in this instance. As Gail and Jane document above, the Zeras plan wasn’t a late inning addition. Plus, Epstein wasn’t just Joe Citizen, he’s on the SC and should have been paying attention to this facet. If he missed it or changed his mind, fine. But own up to that, don’t blame the mayor, Matt Hills, etc. etc.
Again, I agree in concept, but not in this instance. With this fellow, it’s always someone elses’ fault.
I also want to address those who might ask: Why does this matter? He’s a former School Committee member who is leaving town? Why pick on the guy?
For starters, the fellow still has a loyal following and it’s appropriate to encourage that group to give what Geoff says a second look (ie. “vote for the mayor”/”I’m totally disappointed in the mayor” or “Matt Hills will save the SC”/”Matt Hills is the architect of this madness” or “Vote for the operating override it will add space at Zeras”/”no-one should ever vote for an operating override with capital projects in it.”)
Secondly, Geoff says he’ll be back leading the charge if there’s a ballot matter on this question.
Thirdly, he’s unfairly blaming others for a decision he bought into.
Finally, and most importantly, just as we continuously remind ourselves that we need to learn from the mistakes of Newton North, we should seek to learn from the bad decisions we’ve made at the ballot box.
As an early supporter of Geoff’s who enthusiastically endorsed him twice, that’s a mistake I own up to (although I wouldn’t stoop so low as to remove it online).
But it’s a mistake I also hope I learn from.
Every election we hear no one cares, look at how many voted. The general public better sit up and take notice as our city is being
over run with Liberals and they vote and we did not come out to vote for one reason or another. (There is no excuse not to vote) Now is the time to start working to take our city back, talk with your friends and neighbors, ask why our streets are in tough shape, where did our tax dollars go for street repairs? Budget time is coming up next month and we should start to keep an eye on what is going on in this city and make our elected officials accountable or in the next city election have a canidate ready to run against them. Look at each election, most are running uncontested for years and they get to think they are doing a good job and everone is happy with them and they start doing what they want not what should be done. We should care about our schools, but the schools are not the only service that the city provides and as the new ward three alderman mentioned we should be watching how we spend our citizens money.
Please click on Gail’s link “on this presentation” in her 3/12 post. That exact power point was the basis of every meeting/forum before the Override vote. The people who spoke at each presentation included Maureen Lemieux, Bob Rooney, the Chief of Police, the NPS Superintendent, and the Mayor. The meetings were well advertised. Override signs were on lawns throughout the city, including in the Zervas school district. In fact, just one year ago this week, ward/precincts 5-2, 5-3, an 5-4 voted yes on Question 3 by a wide margin.
No one has been hiding anything. The information has been right out there in plain view for everyone to see for over a year. If Geoff was doing his job as SC member during his last year in office, he knew exactly what was proposed in Question 3. I happen to like Geoff and think he has offered a unique perspective over the years, but if he changes his mind, he needs to acknowledge it and leave it that. He also needs to move on in his life. Anyone remember Len Mead or Sam Washburn? Say what you will, but once you leave a community, it’s really over.
I wish Geoff the best in the future.
Geoff, thank you for your contribution.
Emily, please.
” ‘ I just think Geoff Epstein is the biggest disappointment I’ve ever seen in an elected official.’
“Seriously? (Patricia Campatelli? George Bush?)”
Lefties just can’t get over Bush psychosis. Actually, the biggest disappointment in my life is Barack Obama, in hundreds of incompetent actions. He’s just simply a bozo who was well-packaged. And the surprising thing is that I thought he would be an awful president and didn’t vote for him. He didn’t disappoint me in that regard. He just turned out to be far worse than anticipated.
I didn’t vote for the general over-ride, but I did vote for Angier and Cabot. Zervas seemed far too ill-defined and premature to vote on, and the money was just added to the budget anyway and could be re-directed. But the zeal of the Newton voters didn’t care about any of that. The Zervas vote should have been delayed and voted upon by itself.
Does anyone know if Brian Yates’ dial-up is down or not? He hasn’t returned to explain his comments about Geoff holding the “truth,” while “others” are “wrong.” As a sitting City official, he might want to explain who and what he is talking about.
I regret that the three posts on Zervas seem to have veered into personal attacks on some of the participants involved. I’ve heard several complaints in this post about Jeff Epstein’s stubborn personality and his unwillingness to meet his colleagues halfway. I don’t know if any of this is true, or if it’s simply Jeff being the odd man out in a Committee that seems to value unity over a measure of dissent the might make their deliberations less expeditious. Regardless, I think the effort to almost demonize him is way over the top.
And Jeff isn’t the only party to what we’ve been discussing that might be charged with being stubborn and unyielding. I never would have participated in this discussion at all if I hadn’t been present at that Upper Falls Area Council meeting in January where a heated discussion took place between several Upper Falls residents and Council members, and three members of the School Committee. It was the School Board’s unwillingness to even consider or lump into their planning process what the people there were advocating there that disturbed me. They were visibly dismissive of what Upper Falls was asking to be considered and I think this met the test of being stubborn. Opponents of an all Zervas approach (largely but certainly not exclusively from Upper Falls) put forward enough credible material to deserve a decent hearing.
We’ve heard a lot of back and forth on the more than 200 comments on the three blogs. I still don’t know for certain if an expanded Zervas with all the bells and whistles or two smaller schools (one of them in Upper Falls) is the way to go and I suspect that I’m not the only one in Newton that feels this way. This is what is being lost by not extending this community debate in an open fashion before the Board makes a decision. We’ll never fully know what other options there might have been or if they could have, in whole or in part, made for a better final product.
@Bill. Brian’s been sick for the past several weeks with some kind of vicious flu bug that just isn’t going away. He’s been in and out. I talked with him yesterday and suggested strongly that he go back to his doctor. Something he was given just isn’t working.
Gail,
I can’t believe that you of all people (a major observer of the SC over the years) cannot tell us what Geoff Epstein has accomplished? Forget about having a different opinion and representing a certain point of view… in my opinion, he has changed the landscape of the newton schools forever. Why? When Geoff got into office, Jeff young was taking us down the path of just reading that’s all the city cared about. Geoff came into the SC and changed that by pushing STEM. Now there is an even discussion between reading and STEM. He has advocated for better technology and computers in the schools, etc. My fear is that now that he is gone we will be going back to where we were. You don’t think that’s significant?
Over the years, many people have questioned what some people do and accomplish on the board or on sc and some people say, well sometimes its what happens behind the scenes that matters, Maybe the same holds true for Geoff. He has successfully advocated for issues that have made our school system much better. Sometimes he started off alone in his conviction and won the good fight. He’s also been one of the most accessible people to meet with and he is transparent by blogging so all of us aren’t hanging in the wind wanting more information. For that alone he deserves our thanks….so, Thank You Geoff.
How can anyone say he didn’t do anything???
Bob, with all due respect, please read Steve Siegal’s post on the other thread about the history of this process. The SC was aware of Bruce’s “idea” and gave it whatever consideration a long time ago. The priorities were set back then, the process has gone glacially forward from there. And nobody from the SC or BOA has championed its since. End of story.
And if anyone wants this (or anything else) discussed by the Board, why not get a member of said Board to introduce an item to do so? Seven years later, and none did. Not from Upper Falls, not from anywhere. Nor did anyone from the Board attempt to put such an item on the referendum for the override when that window of opportunity was available. I can only assume that they did not because to have introduced such an item would have invited ridicule. They know damned well that their effort would not go anywhere, and they would have heard the same argument being made here. So instead, they flog this issue out here to create the “appearance” of a concerted effort.
Meanwhile, despite the false criticism, the idea of a larger Zervas at a higher price point has been openly discussed. The CIP lists this item (as Bruce points out) including size and estimated price reports from last October. I will not repeat Geoff’s twisted response to all of this as he has left a digital trail for all to view themselves.
Bob: I am sorry to hear about Brian’s illness. As he did muster up the energy to make his claim up top, I hope that he does respond to my question when he recovers, which I hope is soon.
Greg said to Tom that “At least we never removed our editorials, videos or any other content we created at the TAB. That’s just cowardly.”
Yet when I pointed out that the same Political Insider Group that pushed Newton North were the same people pushing overrides, more spending and bad candidates against reformers, Greg found it necessary to besmirch my reputation because I didn’t subscribe to his little litmus tests.
Geoff, wishing you and yours the best in the future. I also wish to take a moment to thank you for your dedication and public service to this city over the many years, and for the countless hours you have devoted for the betterment of our schools and our children, and your willingness to listen openly to parents. As my father would say, cent’ anni.
Gail – Geoff antagonized his collegues by existing. I was active in School Committee elections from the time Geoff first ran and lost. It’s hard for me even to believe now how nasty and petty the SC elections were then.
Lucia – I don’t doubt you about School Committee elections. And I don’t doubt that Geoff received a chilly reception when he joined the SC. But he didn’t have the same colleagues all six years and he shouldn’t have run in the first place if he was going to hide behind that excuse. He had plenty of opportunities to work with his colleagues instead of against them.
Thanks to those concerned about my health. I’m feeling, if not sounding, better. To try to answer my former colleague Bill Brandel’s questions, Geoff Epstein was the School Committtee that feel best acknowledged the errors of past School Committees in closing centrally located walkable schools and tried to ameliorate rate them by supporting renovations at Zervas and other palliative measures. As for the changes in his postions, those appear to me to be attempts to make the best of a bad situation. The School system is overcrowded because of the past mistakes in closing and there are few ways to undo these mistakes. Maybe Mr. Epstein just agrees with Walt Whitman: “Do I contradict myself? Well then I contradict myself.
I am large. I contain multitudes.”
I like Geoff, and always admired his willingness to swim against the tide of the SC. But I’m tremendously disappointed in him. I’ve had numerous conversations with Geoff and other members of the SC who have acknowledged the need to change the early morning start time at our high schools. This is a critical issue in light of the fact that we have an epidemic of stress among our high school students, with much of it being generated by school. The suicides we’ve seen are only the tip of the iceberg, indicating a much deeper problem. Many of our high school students are up past midnight doing homework, and expected to be at school by 7:30am. We have created a culture of sleep deprived zombies. Every study I’ve seen, and every expert I’ve spoken with, indicates quite clearly that there is a link between sleep deprivation and stress among teens. Yet for years the SC has failed to do the one simple thing that would reduce stress across the board for thousands of our high school students… Move the start of the school day a little later. Frankly, I think every member of the SC, not just Geoff, should be ashamed of themselves, for burying their heads in the sand amidst a crisis, and failing to take action on an issue that is causing so much stress among our teens.
Brian: I don’t understand what you said, but get better.
As for Geoff — people make the choice to get in or out of the political arena and you take what comes with it. Geoff ran against the SC, joined it, and continued to rail against it. Some may or may not have liked that, but that is why you get a ballot every two years. All fair.
What some of us take issue with now is that Geoff knows — or at least should know — that this “Zervas Madness” position is untenable. He had a seat at the table during the entire era that Steve describes in the other thread. In short, he knows better, just as anyone on the Board or SC (should) know better. As a result of the process, there simply was not a 16th school option. I repeat: There was not a 16th school option.
To be fair, while this is ridiculous, nobody got hurt. And it does not undermine six years of public service, how ever anyone felt about that. And no, Geoff nor anyone should be subject to or should participate in name-calling or demonization. Let’s just say that Geoff had a bad couple of days, now we all understand this school situation better, and move on.
@Mike Striar Today’s NYTimes also weighs in on the sleep issue:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/13/to-keep-teenagers-alert-schools-let-them-sleep-in/?hp
Thanks, Max. I hope everyone here will take a moment to click on the link you’ve provided. Or just google, “sleep deprivation in teens.” I know the other issues being discussed on this thread are important. The size of Zervas does matter. But in my opinion, and in light of recent events, changing the 7:30am start time at our high schools should be the top priority for the School Committee. They’ve been asleep at the wheel, and it’s time they woke up.
@ Mike Striar – let me preface this as I agree with you about the HS start time. But isn’t the issue that if they do make it later it will effect the after-school athletic programs and if we are one a different start time than all the community’s around us than it will create major conflicts? And then in turn wont it mean changing Middle School and Elementary School times also? I think alot of people agree with this but I think that the logistics of changing it are more complex than we think. Have any Mass Communities changed the start times of HS? And if so how was it done?
Joanne– Yes, other high schools have changed to later start times, both locally and around the country. Brookline comes to mind as having changed several years ago. But frankly, I’m paying a lot more attention to who hasn’t changed [Newton], and not so much to who has.
First we need to recognize the magnitude of the problem. This is something that effects nearly every one of our high school students on a daily basis. So it’s a huge issue. Teens are particularly vulnerable to the consequences of sleep deprivation, because of unique biological wiring at that age. We know that sleep deprivation contributes to stress in all humans. More importantly we also know that sleep deprivation and stress are both contributing factors in depression among teens. The recent suicides we’ve seen are simply the tip of a depression iceberg. I believe this is validated by the most recent stress survey conducted of Newton’s high school students.
Your questions about conflicts with after school programs, and the residual scheduling impact on middle and elementary schools are valid. I don’t have the institutional knowledge to tell you how it would all shake out. But to my mind, we elect a School Committee and pay school administrators to figure these things out. It’s a question of priorities, and whether or not we are willing to make minor adjustments to fix a problem that has major consequences.
Mike, I totally agree with you about school start times. My 2 oldest children attended N. North when this transition occurred and I witnessed the negative outcome on a daily basis. Children go off to school half awake and less ready to learn.
The impetus for this was new state regulations mandating longer school days. Not only do schools begin earlier but have only half the time in between class starts and very short lunchtime periods. Teacher’s unions wanted financial compensation for longer time in the classroom. Many school boards couldn’t absorb the additional costs so this convoluted solution emerged.
Some parents/teachers approved the change because it fit in with their own working hours and commuting logistics.
In no way did this happen to satisfy a need for after school athletics.Also, very little consideration was provided for the welfare of the children. It was driven by adult needs totally. No matter how troublesome this arrangement is for our children’s best interest, nothing will change now.
@Mike Striar. You have made an excellent point. I went to the Newton public Schools during the late 40’s and early 50’s. I’m almost certain that the starting time at both Hyde and Weeks in those days was 8:30 or 8:45 in the morning. We left Hyde at 3:30 in the afternoon except for Tuesdays and Thursdays when we had the full afternoon off. I do know that I never remember leaving home to walk to these schools in the dark or even at dawn or sunrise. Later on, ee rode our bikes or took a privately run bus from the Highlands to where Newton North is now located and again I don’t think anything got underway there before 8:30 AM. I did sometimes have trouble paying attention for the full day, but I don’t recall ever feeling tired or wanting to take a nap.
There’s a big difference now. I live on Dickerman Road across the street from where two school buses now pick up kids between 7 and 7:15 in the morning for the elementary and middle schools across Route 9. A lot of them get dumped off at the same location around 4 in the afternoon, but I think at last half stick around for after school activities. These are nice and very polite kids. I’ve never heard loud yelling or profanity from any of them, but most look pretty tired in the morning, as though they could have slept in a bit longer.
@Bill. Sorry for the delay in responding to your last note.
I made no comment about how Bruce’s proposal for “walkable schools” had been addressed by the School Committee during the 7 years it has been tackling the future of school buildings and facilities. I’ve only been discussing the recent proposal from the Upper Falls Community that I first heard described in detail at that January Upper Falls Area Council meeting with the 3 School Board members. The only reference I made to Bruce’s “Walkable Schools” proposal was that Bruce’s proposal and the proposal from Upper Falls both stressed the benefits of walkable schools.
I’ve gone on way too long. Just wanted to get some thoughts on about what I’ve seen over the past several months and years.
Here are the only four things I felt certain about after that meeting ended and these are the only 4 things I’ve been saying on the blog and that I still feel. I haven’t judged the merits of either proposal because quite frankly I’m not in a position to make that judgment. But perceptions are often as important as details and this is where the School Board fell short of expectations.
1. The Upper Falls community’s proposal for a 16th school was thoughtful and detailed enough to deserve formal consideration before any final decision on expanding Zervas was made. The planning process had been going on for at least 7 years and whatever was decided probably won’t be completed for at least another 3 or 4 years.
2. Since the total time frame from beginning to end would span more than a decade, I didn’t see what harm could come from taking another month or so to openly consider this proposal from Upper Falls?
3. The performance by the School Committee that evening was a public relations disaster, at least from the perspective of the members of the Upper Falls Area Council and others from the community who were present that evening. I know the School Committee did not intend to come across this way, but it did.
4. I felt that the School Committee could turn this around by taking the extra time to show they were serious about getting input from all the villages that will be impacted by their final decision. I felt, in fact, that everyone would gain by this extension.
Finally I just think you are wrong that some people in Upper Falls would just “flog” this issue to create the appearance of a “concerted” effort or that they should have been expected to have initiated this at some earlier point in the planning process. I don’t think that something is necessarily less credible because it comes together near the end of the process instead of at the beginning or somewhere in between. And this is particularly true for places like Upper Falls. It’s only in the last two years that Upper Falls has really come together with enough cohesion to propose something like this in detail. An infusion of new blood into the village coupled with reinvigorated participation from long time dwellers has caused some amazing combustion. This is reflected in the formation of a very strong area council, development of the new Upper Falls Greenway, a great Village Day in September with wide participation and involvement from the community, a major campaign to rebuild the Emerson Playground, several initiatives to save and restore historic treasures in the village, parking management initiatives, the Feast of the Falls at Echo Bridge and a lot of joint work with the Friends of Hemlock Gorge. It was almost natural that this revitalized Village community would have seized on the possibility of a 16th School. This emerged from the entire forward thrust of an involved Upper Falls and not from the whim of a few within the village. In view of the fact that a walkable school is high on the wish list for people in Upper Falls, it was only right and proper that the Area Council should have stepped up to the plate on this.
I know all this because members of all three area councils are in regular contact with each other at meetings and over the phone. That’s why the Highlands Area Council sent a letter to the School Board asking for a delay in a decision on Zervas. I was present at the Upper Falls Area Council meeting in January because we attend each others meetings. Area Councils don’t have much power, but all of us are learning more and more about our villages and the aspirations the people of these villages have for their future. No where is this sense of vision stronger than in Upper Falls, as strong as in the Highlands where we have been looking at this vision thing for some time.
Bob: I don’t have the time to address your post point by point. Suffice it to say that I don’t think it squares with what I said, what transpired or how capacity planning works in this City. I am glad to hear that the Upper Falls area council has a vision for its future; I’ve always thought UF had great potential. It will be exciting to watch. Onward.
Colleen, I agree with you that Greg & Gail’s criticism was a bit unfair.
I had my differences with Geoff Epstein on the 2008 override and the 2013 override as well as Alison Leary, but at least Epstein wasn’t Gail Glick. At least he raised issues that showed how the Political Insider Group has been so complacent regarding Newton government in general and the Newton schools in particular. Furthermore, I’d glad he talked about the SPED Review in a recent TAB Column, which showed that the City of Newton was overspending on SPED by $20M/year, including $10M/year on aides.
http://newton.wickedlocal.com/article/20140312/NEWS/140318561
What did Geoff say about SPED spending?
Here’s what I now don’t understand, if Geoff knows there is wasteful spending in SPED, why does he support a Mayor who has no will to do the right thing and investigate the sped spending? This is a truly important issue, because if we are wasting that money, we can find it and reinvest it back in sped or elsewhere and improve our schools. That would be a huge deal. If it’s just his opinion, then thats no big deal…there’s a big difference.
Josh, I just noticed the link and when I opened it up it cut off in the beginning of the second paragraph.
Tom, when it comes to Geoff supporting the mayor, ask him, not me. I figured he thought that Setti was more amiable than David Cohen and was willing to support him as an alternative to Ruth Balser in 2009 and for re-election in 2013.
http://newton.wickedlocal.com/article/20140312/NEWS/140318561/1007/OPINION
@Bill. Thanks for your comments on Upper Falls. One thing you and I agree totally on is the need to end all busing fees for every student in the City that attends our public schools. I also believe that every student should be entitled to at least two extra curricula activities, two if the activity involves major costs to the City and 3 if the costs are less. Both of these changes would help level the playing field for kids from lower and middle income families. This is what public education is really supposed to be about.
Bob: Agreed!
Bob,
I’d go further. We should eliminate sports/music fees as well. I believe the city is obligated to make sure each child is well-rounded and each child deserves to have equal chance to be involved as much as they like.
Agree strongly that eliminating the bus fee for elematary kids from Upper Falls was a very necessary correction to a historic wrong, but I also want to draw attention to what @Tom just said here. Music and sports teach our kids how to be well-rounded, how to find balance, how to be leaders and teammates. And music in particular has been shown to enhance other forms of academic learning. If we want our kids to be the best prepared for a complex life as possible, don’t we owe them the proper tools, and to do so without regard for their families’ wealth?
@Tom and Chris. I also agree 100% with what you both say. I’m concerned by how very few young people I see at any of the classical, folk, blues or jazz performances I go to. Nothing against good rock which I also enjoy up to a point, but We’ll be far less sane as a society if the older type music slips into oblivion in the years ahead.
When did the fees take place, under Cohen or Warren?
Sorry, Tom, fees were implemented under Mayor Cohen.
Jane, why are you sorry? Thanks for the info.
Here’s what I’m hearing but what I don’t get: We should build a 16th school while spending some amount of money on renovating Zervas. And we should eliminate fees.
Can someone tell me how we pay for it? The answer is not that money for Zervas can be used on two schools. Even if it can, I’m addressing the people who are talking about both — building a 16th school and eliminating fees: How is that possible without making cuts elsewhere?
Gail, on my Mayoral web site was an idea that would have raised enough revenue (without raising taxes) in 2 years, that would have been able to replace the revenue from fees, in my opinion. We could have gotten rid of them. But whatever.
Charge a City Tax on the Marijuana that will be sold at the Marijuana Clinic that is going to be put on Washington Street.
We wont have to ever worry about another Override in Newton.
Great idea!
Yeah, great idea Joanne, let’s charge a City Tax on people undergoing chemotherapy or who have other debilitating medical conditions.
Gail, there are plenty of ways to meet Newton’s needs and wants without raising taxes. During the override, Bob Marshall, Traute Marshall and myself discussed three of them.
http://newton.patch.com/groups/moving-newton-forwards-blog/p/bp–meeting-newtons-needs-without-raising-taxes
Tom – I’m sorry to disappoint you.
Jane, when did you disappoint me??? I don’t understand.
Tom – I’m sorry to disappoint you that it wasn’t Mayor Warren who put the fees in place.
At this point, what does this discussion have to do with Geoff Epstein?
@Steven: It doesn’t. Geoff should send Max Goldsmith a thank you note.
Jane, I could care less that it is or isn’t Setti Warren who implemented the tax.I was trying to gage as to how long we’ve had the tax. The longer we have it, the more depended we are on it.
Why do you think everything is an attack on the Mayor. Can a conversation go by where you don’t defend the man.
By the way, I want to remind you that I was with you when Cohen was attacking you, where was the Mayor? I was with you in the NNHS debacle, where was the Mayor?
Tom – Reread your posts. They are overwhelmingly negative comments about the the present mayor. My comment was meant as just a poke. Nothing to get upset about.
In reality, I comment on the schools. That’s my thing. I never comment on or about individuals, with one exception, and that’s certainly not you.
Jane, you’ve read my posts over the years, that’s how I write. It’s not my writing, it’s how you interpret it when you read it. To me, it sounds neutral. To you, it sounds negative.
Do you get a discount if you don’t inhale???
Steve – Th problem is that there are too many people like me around this place. I look at the “Recent Comments” and respond to them. But the digressions are what make V14 interesting.
If I may digress again, we also used to have parties every once in a while at which the conversations would veer way off topic. But that was a different issue.
@Jane: Let us know where and when.
Better yet, get Terry Malloy on the case!
Gail Spector — Possibly, if you apologized for asking voters to ignore technical aspects of election rules, that you and Geoff might sing kumbaya together and Spring would break out tomorrow. Worth a try?
Terry – Where are you when we need you?!
Ah Jane,
I’ve been busy organizing scotch tastings for Valhalla. Hard to take on these serious issues when there’s whisky to imbibe.
So, let’s talk about getting the whole 14thVillage together for vigorous discussion and drinking!
@Terry. I’m game. We usually do these things in May and October as I recall.
@terry – excellent suggestion. Consider the committee formed. You’re it’s head. I’ll be your trusted second in command. All new members welcome. Now lets get to work.