An organization called Open Newton Schools has launched a website and took out a full page ad that ran on page three of today’s Boston Herald. An item on the website by Charles Jacobs, a longtime critic of the curriculum, says the ads are also running in the Boston Globe, Newton Tab, the Jewish Advocate, and the Boston Metro.
Note to Jacobs: Matt Hills in not the current School Committee chair, he’s vice chair.
Thank goodness for Charles Jacobs’ willingness to speak out on this uncomfortable subject. Among the insidious liberal leadership in Newton, this issue is not among the important matters discussed when choosing our representatives for the Newton School Committee (or other elected offices). Someone had to raise the issue, and I applaud Jacobs for doing so. When did being proud to be an American go out of fashion? Soccer moms tell us all we need to know to elect them is they have kids in NPS schools and that they are neighborly by volunteering on their kid’s PTO.
[Although Hills is the vice-chair of the Newton SC, he will likely be the chair come January 2014. Even if Claire S hand-picked her replacement, Ruth Goldman, for the Ward 6 School Committee seat I doubt she will replace Sokolove as the chair in 2014.]
In my daughter’s 4 years at Newton North, I saw not one shred of evidence that what Jacobs claims is true. I am a Jew, and a proud and knowledgeable one. My daughter attended a Jewish Day School from K through 8. She never felt uncomfortable with course material or teacher comment at NNHS. I do not understand this claim.
If we don’t acknowledge this as a concern, as Americans (as much as Jews) then we are part of the problem.
@Native Newtonian – your post is unclear on a specific point – were the materials shown in the ad NOT used or were the materials used but the messages were not as stated in the ad?
Newton Mom of 2, I can only say that they were never used in any class that my child took. She was curriculum I and honors.
(a) I think Charles Jacobs is too smart to stick his neck out, especially regarding a community like Newton, if he didn’t have ample evidence that what he is claiming is true. That doesn’t make it true, but it’s important to think about.
(b) The Saudis created groups like the Taliban by funding education in madrassas in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The Wahhabi Islam movement, with its tons of oil money, is on a crusade (pardon the expression) to convert everyone to Islam, and really their brand of Islam.
(c) I saw a bit on TV a week or two ago which involved some Muslim who supposedly is out to build bridges to the non-Islamic community. I don’t remember his name or where he was. But, he was in a church, I think a Unitarian Universalist church, but I’m not sure. In his program, he had kids emulate in English what the Muslims do in prayer in Arabic. They said the words and he led them in gestures and prostration. I think this is going too far. I think you won’t see a mosque allow a rabbi to come in and lead their kids in an Arabic version of Jewish prayer and the same for a priest or minister. It’s an insidious form of indoctrination.
(d) In like manner, when that mosque was proposed for near the site of 9/11, the Muslims called it outreach. Pure BS. It’s an attempt to put their stamp on a victory that they enjoyed, like an animal putting its scent on its territory. Ask yourself why there’s a mosque at the holiest site in Judaism, the Temple Mount. Or why the Hagia Sofia, a huge Christian church in Istanbul was converted to a mosque after conquest, or why a huge mosque was built in Ayodhya, India at the site of an important Hindu temple.
Folks, you’re being naive. If you think this is just being buddies, look at the treatment of Copts in Egypt, or Christians in areas of Syria now where Islamists have taken over, or…………
I’d guesstimate the cost of these ads run by the APT in these four papers to be somewhere north of $20,000. The Globe, Herald and Advocate only have Newton as a relatively small part of their circulation (maybe up to 10% for the Advocate, probably 5% or less for the Globe and Herald).
I don’t challenge the APT’s claims — I have no clue. I’m trying to understand the choice of media for this message. It’s not aimed at Newton residents with school children potentially affected by this program, that’s for sure.
(missing a “just”). Not -just- aimed at Newton residents with school children.
I have seen these textbooks and workbooks from helping out with my neighbor’s kids, and Jacobs is correct. They are horrifying. I don’t have a stake in this – not Jewish and don’t have kids in the schools – and I was horrified.
The Saudi government also sponsored a movie called Arabia, shown at, among other places, the Omni IMAX show at the Musuem of Science. They charged normal admission, but it was totally propaganda for Islam and should have been offered for free. Saudi Arabia is a pampered country of oil-rich babies that has shown little real accomplishment in any area other than spending a lot of money on expensive homes, cars, shopping malls, and mosques, and spreading Islam all over the globe. The oil guzzlers in the rest of the world are paying for it.
Well, I have to say that if it is true, it certainly needs to be stopped, and Charles Jacobs should be supported in his efforts. Shame on Matt Hills and all members of the School Committee and administration. I find it ironic that “hate” can be tolerated if it is perpetrated by Muslims – we are so afraid to offend.
I also find it ironic that I am agreeing with Barry’s posts!
It is pretty sad that this group of citizens that were concerned about what is being taught in the NPS had to resort to Full page ads in the local papers because our Superintendent and SC did not take them seriously enough or address their concerns.
Native Newtonian – consider what you wrote in your first post. Your own child – an honors student who attended a Jewish Day School – never mentioned being indoctrinated with anti-Israel, anti-US, pro-Muslim teaching, and you yourself saw no evidence of it. If this were in fact true as presented, wouldn’t you and she have noticed it?
Tricia,
It seems to me that isn’t clear from the ad what grades and what courses use the materials cited. Perhaps Native Newtonian’s daughter wasn’t exposed to it in the 4 years she was in the NPS because of the particular courses she took. Lassey seems to have seen these materials being used with some kids, so they clearly exist, and are used sometimes. And, honestly, I don’t think Jacobs simply made it up. Perhaps it isn’t widely used, but if it’s a distortion of history used to make Jews and Israel look bad then it shouldn’t be used.
Actually, it would be more important to teach about Islamic terrorism and war, which is rife throughout the world. Let’s start with the Tsarnaevs. Or maybe the Achille Lauro. Or maybe the Sbarro bombing in Israel. Or the school in Russia. Or Bali. Or the US embassies in Africa. Or the US embassy in Tehran. Or churches in Egypt. Or….
It’s a long list, and much more important than whether or not maybe one woman thinks she was mistreated in an Israeli prison. Remember the bloody pictures from the police station in Ramallah when two Israeli soldiers accidentally wandered there and were killed and the killers showed their bloody hands through the window of the police station. Or let’s think about Daniel Pearl’s severed head. Or, of course 9/11. Or, Major Hassan at Fort Hood. Or……..
Or the London subway. Or the trains in Madrid. Or……
I mean, why are we letting these people attempt in any way to indoctrinate our kids, given their track record world-wide? Boy, are we stupid.
Just because you were not an eyewitness to the Holocaust does it mean that it didn’t happen, Tricia?
This is an affront to not only Jews, but to Christians and all American’s – especially those to pay taxes to have these lies advocated in public schools. The silence from the lefty-majority in this city is deafening.
Tricia, NNHS is very large. My daughter did not take every course offered, nor did she take a class with every teacher. My comment stands that she never had this sort of experience, and she is not the type to have swept this under the rug or sat by silently. Just because she did not experience it does not make it untrue, and I am hearing from more and more trusted people that this is in fact quite (sadly) true.
@dulles, et al
You bet this cost a bundle to publish these full page ads. Jacob’s and his small organization are doing thankless work to bring these atrocities forward and making the public aware of what is happening even if it’s not right under our noses with a very small budget. If you are so inclined, please make a donation to Americans for Peace & Tolerance. Thanks.
For the past couple of years, this group has been claiming a pro-Muslim, anti-Israel bias in the NPS, and trying to rally support in Newton. They have been unsuccessful. So now they’re going outside Newton. Interestingly, just after I posted earlier this evening, one of my NNHS kids went on Facebook and saw an ad from this group in her feed (!) and couldn’t believe it. She said something to the effect of: an anti-Jewish bias? In Newton? Don’t they realize we start learning about bias and propaganda in texts in like 5th grade history?
My daughter took this course. I was very aware of it because of the concern expressed in the community.
Sternman and Cohen would like to think this is Hitler Youth type indoctrination. It’s anything but. It’s a curriculum that educates what is being taught in the Islamic world. It’s no different from teaching the Spanish Inquisition or Holocaust. It answers the question, where are these people coming from. My daughter and her friends said that they actually feel like the teachers are almost apologetic for teaching it because they know ‘how liberal and jewish Newton is.’
This curriculum has been around for a while now. Is there any evidence we are breeding islamic terrorists in Newton? No.
Ooops. Forgot to mention that my wife is a board member and Sunday School teacher at our Temple and both of my daughters have been Bat Mitzvahed. We are all Patriotic Americans.
So, Kim,
Don’t you think they should teach about the world-wide Islamic terrorism and the conquests or attempts in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Pakistan, Kashmir, Syria, Yemen, and other places in order to give a more complete picture of “where are these people coming from”?
I don’t think it should be sugar-coated. Europe has already given up a lot of itself to Moslems who they let settle there and build up strength. It’s happening here too. When there are enough of them, the insurrections will start.
We can let it happen if it’s what we want. I don’t want it. And it doesn’t work the other way. Try to build a church or synagogue in Saudi Arabia, or many other Moslem areas. Some remain not destroyed in some countries because they have historically been there for a long time, but don’t try to build a new one.
It is very different from teaching about the Holocaust or the Spanish Inquisition because it is happening NOW. We have the opportunity to change the course of history. Exploring the horrors and mistakes of the past is vital; watching it happen now and allowing it is dangerous and unforgiveable.
I hope my children’s education gives them the power to reason and teaches them to question outrageous charges made out of context before condemning respected members of the community, as some have done here. It is those same skills that our children will need to confront the delegitimization of Israel, as they will likely encounter a true anti-Israel and anti-semitic agenda when they leave home for our nation’s fine universities.
Adam, for American and Jewish students who are attending universities is the USA, there is a great resource for reporting just what is happening as it pertains to de-legitimization of Israel and anti-Israel and anti-Semitic agendas at these thrones of education. It’s called The AMCHA Initiative.
Adam,
What exactly are you talking about? Who attacked whom here?
What makes these “members our community” so respectable according to you Adam? They facial gestures by our School Committee members when these issues were brought up in during the public comment portion of their meetings was absolutely childish and laughable.
Thank you to those who have complimented our efforts. Here are a few responses to our critics and those who are thinking this through here:
Native Newtonian: Would your daughter feel “uncomfortable” if she learned from her texts that the Muslims discovered the New World, or that Jihad really means “personal struggle” and not Holy War? Maybe she didn’t read the texts. Maybe her teacher didn’t use them. We don’t know, because we are being prevented from viewing what is in the curriculum. What we do know is that false, defamatory things appear in texts at the school.
Newton Mom of 2: according to students, the materials in our ad were used, and all with the exception of the “lesson” that Jews in Israel kill Arab women in jails, are still in use.
dulles: What better media could we have used?
Joanne: it IS sad that we had to take out ads. The School Committee made an error by permitting defamatory materials into the classroom. Instead of acting honorably, admitting the error, investigating how the hatred slipped past them, they did what typical bureaucrats do: they circled the wagons… They spent a year defending the Arab World Studies Notebook, a work that the very mainstream and quite liberal American Jewish Committee concluded is pure and hateful propaganda. Then finally, after being pressed by grassroots Jewish groups, they decided to withdraw it…. NOT because it is defamatory, they said, but because it is outdated? Imagine….
This didn’t have to happen. We don’t think — and we never said — that NHS or its teachers or its School Committee are anti-Semites. They made a mistake. The teachers are victims of an effort to bias K-12 curricula. This is a national problem.
Here is just a taste of part of what happened in Newton: The Middle East Studies Center at Harvard is one of 6 or 8 such Centers which gets federal funds and is required to do “outreach” programs, creating curricula and training sessions for local public high schools in the area of the Center’s expertise. Paul Beran, the director of the Center for Middle Eastern Studies Outreach Center has a history of well-documented anti-Israel bias , advocates for the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaign against Israel. At the 2005 conference at Harvard University Beran promoted “constructing long-term networks of broad based support for action [BDS]” and bragged about partnering with the radical anti-Israel group Jewish Voices For Peace (JVP), It was at a workshop conducted for local public school teachers that a certain Newton HS teacher got the Arab World Studies Notebook, which is funded by Saudi Arabia.
Tricia: We don’t know how widely the offending materials were used. And young students do not know much about the Arab-Israeli conflict or about Islam. Would students have noticed the bias? Again, how many students would know that to say Jihad means, exclusively, self-improvement spiritually, and not also (and it seems to a not insubstantial number of Muslims) “holy war” is an untruth?
Tricia again: do the students really learn about bias? Have they seen the awful Jew-hatred pouring out of the Muslim/Arab societies? See http://www.memritv.org for a sample…”Jews are monkeys and pigs” is a favorite. “Slaughter the Jews” flows from pulpits across the Muslim world. But I bet you dollars to donuts the students in Newton are not taught that — for the sake of “global peace” and sensitivity to Muslims. Am I right? And, by the way, Jewish scholars now say the biggest threat to Jews today is from Muslim anti-Semitism. And, Tricia, do the students at Newton, who you say learn about bias, know how the onslaught against Christians from Damascus, to Cairo to Iraq is justified by the “bias” of radical Islamists? So… PC teaching amounts to an abandonment of the most seriously besieged population on the planet: M.E. Christians.
Kim: your daughter — again dollars to donuts — did NOT learn about what is being taught in the Islamic world. I’m betting she learned what the PCers and the radical Muslims WANT her to think is being taught in the Muslim world. Again, see http://www.memritv.org. Or see any number of Reports by ADL and AJC — very liberal Jewish orgs — about the torrent of hatred of Jews and Christians being inculcated and spread in the Muslim world. Also…. does she learn what is thought about gays, democratic rights, women, in Arab/Muslim societies?
You say what’s happening is no different than teaching about the Holocaust. But surely when that subject is taught, it is not taught within a framework of cultural relativism….”that’s just what the Nazis thought…. we can’t judge.”
Kim: Be serious… did we say the curriculum is turning out Islamic terrorists?
And we don’t doubt your patriotism.
Adam: You bring up the “critical thinking” defense used by Superintendent Fleischman. Here’s what a true “critical thinking” exercise might look like. Tell me if you agree. The teacher says, “we are going to show you very hateful and deceptive things that are said and teach you how to be a critical reader. Now class, the actual fact is that Jews do NOT kill Arab women in Israeli jails. And now let’s see why someone would try to get you to think that. And now let’s see how that got into the school here — NOT as a lesson in detecting hatred, but just as a lesson about the Arab World.” This qualifies as true instruction in critical thinking and if it were done this way, we’d be praising the Newton Schools for doing what they should be doing. But David Fleishman said, more or less, “we don’t teach what to think but how to think.” (I don’t have the exact quote in front of me.)
In a world of propaganda, I think the students need a bit of basic “what”… not only the “how.”
To All: after we published the ads, more parents and students sent of more very bad bits of texts from their “lessons.” Stay tuned.
I think this is a very good discussion. Happy to continue.
@Charles Jacobs — I’ve actually been thinking about the very point you bring up as well (i.e., what better media might have been used).
Maybe there would have been a way to identify Newton parents with children in the age group taking the class with material to which APT objects — then use targeted flyers and/or phone calls? Not sure if that sort of information would be available in City Hall’s census documents, for example. But I’d think that more targeted approach would allow for steady grassroots pressure applied over time rather than an ad blowout that makes a big splash for a day, but is gone the next. Or maybe the APT has already been down that route.
As a current junior at Newton North High School, I am surprised and angered by this controversy. As parents and political groups debate the issue of alleged propaganda in our history classes, nobody seems to be asking the students what they think.
I remember reading one of the described handouts in 9th grade, “A World Where Womanhood Reigns Supreme.” I did not agree with all of the author’s opinions, but under no circumstances were they taught as facts. In fact, after we were assigned to read the document for homework, our teacher led an interesting, open, accepting discussion that engaged the entire class and considered both the article’s point of view and others. Everyone spoke his or her mind, and every opinion was respected.
It is important to recognize that these are not textbooks; they are primary sources, and they are taught as such. Every history teacher I have ever had or heard about has done a phenomenal job of addressing all sides of any discussion on religion, portraying Islam, Judaism, Christianity, and other religions fairly and within historical context. At no time during my studies of history have I felt that any religion was advocated or demonized; the beliefs, culture, and history of each have been fairly treated.
Those who claim that materials being taught in Newton history courses are propaganda and that Newton’s students are not learning do Newton’s history teachers an injustice. And what is more, they do Newton students an injustice. We are far from brainwashed. We are thinking, we are debating, we are writing, and we are forming our own opinions. Before lashing out at the school system and attempting to censor students’ access to material that presents alternate perspectives on important world issues, anyone who takes issue with the material being taught in Newton’s schools should sit in on a high school history class. They might be surprised at the capacity of Newton’s students for unbiased analysis, respectful discussion, and openness to many points of view.
Students don’t set the curriculum.
I’m glad Kaija entered the conversation. We’ve not had much of an opportunity to engage with students other than those who complained to us. I will think about what she said and respond next week in detail. But I would like to say that I wonder if her teacher explored in full free-wheeling detail what life is like for women in many Islamic cultures. For example, were there discussions of genital mutilation, honor killings, and polygamy? Was there a discussion of the marriage of the Prophet to a nine year old and the opinion, issued in fatwas by Iranian and other clerics that because of that fact, marriages by men to pre adolescents are fully in conformity with Islamic law and practice? Did the teacher discuss the current news stories of little girls who ran away from forced marraiges to older men? I recall a very compelling video recently released that interviewed a brave little girl who ran away. These are very sensitive topics and so it would be good to know if they are taken up in class… or, as I suspect…. out of “sensitivity” or “global understanding” these things are avoided.
I have met with the Muslim reformer Irshad Manji and also Ayaan Hirsi Ali, whose books I believe would NOT be presented to Newton students because of the PC ideology that pervades much of our public school educational culture.
Welcome Kaija/ More next week.
Outstanding, Kaija!
I just graduated NNHS last spring, and I can completely confirm everything Kaija says. I did see these materials in class, but none were ever taught as fact. Actually, very little is taught as fact in any NPS social science curriculum; the aim of most classes is to create historians, not teach history.
Documents like these are offered as primary sources with clear indication that there is inherent bias. Teachers at North are expert at ensuring students understand every document was written by a human, and that every human has their intents and purposes in writing a document. I recall specific occasions in every social science course I enrolled in of teachers going out of their way to make sure students understood the difference between historical fact and opinion.
Though it is would not strictly conform to the curriculum, we did in fact discuss contemporary issues including polygamy, mutation and honor killings. We dissected the Boston Bombings in AP European History and covered scandals in the Catholic Church during psychology. We openly discus Israel, and every student is allowed to conclude for him or herself whether the state’s actions are justified. No one is ever told who and what is right or wrong.
There is no brainwashing at North. There are phenomenal teachers leading by example in the city’s attempt to foster critical thinking and reasoning across the board. I truly believe rewriting the curriculum to oust these documents would have little to no effect on the depth and intrigue of class discussions, but it would make the teachers need to work harder to do their job well.
To end: I’d like to note that I am still connected with many students at North via Facebook, and – at the risk of profaning my post – I’d like to anonymously share some of their comments relating to these ads:
“what the hell is this”
“What the actual fuck”
“Everyone go tell this website [www.opennewtonschools.org] they suck”
“Is there a way to donate negative money?…I’d be down.”
There are many more posts like these across the board, and I see nothing supporting the movement.
My views are obviously shared by students still in the system, and I see no reason to be haphazardly banning any educational materials in Newton. I believe the pinnacle of my education through Newton was the openness of every discussion and the availability to readily investigate and try to understand every side of every issue.
Native Newtonian,
We have the opportunity to ‘change the course of history’ now how? By not teaching our children about our enemies? How do we change the course of history in our classrooms?
Thanks Kaija and NNHS Grad!
To NNHS Grad:
Creating historians with “very little facts” taught? Interesting…. No one is ever taught who is right or wrong? So then without the facts, what is the basis of judgement about who is right or wrong?
Just one question: If you read that “Jews in Israel murder Arab women in jails” — is it ever hypothesized in your class that this is not just an opinion (which very few Arabs must actually have since they would act very differently if they really thought it were true) but is instead a deliberate lie?
Is my assertion that there is a concerted campaign to defame the Jewish state, well funded by the state’s enemies, not an assertion for which evidence can be mustered, enough so that objective observers would tend to agree? Or all all assertions simply wisps, or fantasies.
If you have taken courses which explore in detail Western imperialism but ignore or tread lightly on the vast, murderous conquests of the Muslim empires, in which you don’t learn that Christians today are being oppressed and hunted and killed across the Muslim world, how can you say this is designed to make you a historian?
NNHS grad: be honest with us: If the highest estimates for Arabs killed over the last 50 year conflict with the Jews is 40-50K, but over 100,000 Syrians were killed by other Arabs in the last year alone, and if 2 million African Christians were slaughtered in a self declared jihad in Sudan, and tens of thousands of black women and children were enslaved by jihadis in Sudan, bought and sold for $15…. ;and if you didn’t learn this in your class, but you DID hear all the arguments for blaming the Israelis for the conflict with the Arab world, then how can you claim you learning to be an historian. I think you are learning to be a hyper-critic of the West.
You say you studied the Boston Marathon bombing. Did you learn that the bombers prayed at a controversial mosque blocks from their home? Did you learn that at least 2 other attendees of that mosque are in jail for attempted murder of plots to murder? Did you learn that the founder of that mosque, where the bombers prayed is in jail for 23 years for fund raising for al Qaeda?
If you did not…. and these are all facts, if you are permitted to believe in facts, then this is not about training historians but it is about creating a PC mentality .. not historical in any real way.
Or are all the things I just mentioned “tabu” in your classroom…. because you are taught to be “sensitive” because the problems of the world stem from us in the West not being “sensitive?”
When you do this, by the way, the victims are not mostly the Israelis, but the victims of non-Western oppression: the women, gays, black slaves, democrats, Christians and Jews in the Middle East who you abandon in order to achieve “global understanding” and “critical thinking.”
Again, this is an excellent discussion. What we need are more examples from your class experience so we can calmly discuss our views.
Thank you,
Charles
Every now and then I look at the excerpts from the documents and wonder, “Is it possible that this guy [Charles Jacobs] has a point?”
But after reading Kaija and NNHS Grad — and Jacobs’ followup — I’ve concluded that Jacobs is nothing more than a bully. The way he hounds these kids is similar to the way he’s been hounding our public servants (especially Matt Hills who is as fine a person serving our community as one could ever hope for) is undignified and unjustified.
No doubt “a concerted campaign to defame the Jewish state” exists in this world. But as the parent of a high schooler who I’m pretty sure has not become a jihadist after taking non-AP history I too see no reason to believe that such a campaign to exists inside the Newton Public Schools.
Clearly, it’s not the Newton Schools that have an agenda, it’s Jacobs.
Kim, we MUST teach our students about our enemies. That is the point. Jacobs’ group seem to feel that they are used to glorify muslim. Others feel that they are used to illustrate how things are in the world. The later is crucial. We cannot stick our heads in the sand. We change the course of history by raising students who dialogue and question. Unless we are muslim, we do not indoctrinate and brainwash.
I have to admit that I am torn on this issue and need more info to have an educated viewpoint. It seems as though the material needs to be shown to our students in order for them to understand what is going on in this world – but the key is in how the teacher presents it. I haven’t heard anything (from those posting as well as my own NNHS grad) that leads me to think that NNHS teachers promote the ideals set forth, or present fictions as fact. We haven’t heard from anyone at NSHS. Comments from NSHS students, grads, or parents?
Charles, I have a tremendous amount of respect for you and the work you have done. I am just not yet convinced that this is a battle that needs to be fought. Perhaps the material needs to be presented in order for our youth to understand the threats? Again, I don’t know enough to really KNOW.
To Kaija Gahm and NNHS Grad.
As students of critical thinking, you know that any discussion or debate is limited by the facts the you are presented-you don’t know what you don’t know.
And therefore any opinions you form, regardless of how vigorous the discussion, are incomplete and maybe wrong. Surely you recognize that. Your teachers and curriculum are developed by people with a political agenda-which sounds well intentioned. Global peace and understanding, respecting other cultures no matter how dysfunctional, etc. The goal is not TRUTH or historical accuracy, it’s to make you a virtuous, sensitive person-as they define it.
In Newton today, this mostly means being critical of Western civilization, America, Christianity, Conservatives and Israel. This contra-educational agenda will avoid discussions that may offend certain protected minorities and cultures.
As a critical thinker you should see that school officials really don’t believe that honest assessment of history and other cultures leads to peace and understanding. They believe sensitivity should trump honest educational effort. In this kind of liberal political correct environment you are not getting a true education, no matter how you are influenced to believe that you are.
Thanks, Charles.
Newton students have been brainwashed to think they are informed. When one debates in a class, seemingly in an objective way, but one is fed biased data upon which to base that debate, then one is being propagandized without realizing it. There’s so much terror and cruelty and savagery throughout the Islamic world that it’s hard to comprehend. It’s done against Christians and Jews and it’s done by one Moslem stream against another. They demonstrate worldwide when rumor of one Koran being disrespected at Guantanamo is spread. But, how many Korans are obliterated when an Sunni terrorist blows up a Shiite mosque or vice versa?
We are in a world-wide crisis now. Islam conquered a large part of the civilized world centuries ago. It’s trying again. We can let it happen or we can confront it.
“Fed biased data” – all the more reason not to come to a conclusion based on the rantings of an anti-muslim propaganda ad paid for and placed in a newspaper by an agenda-driven special-interest group (one way of viewing the ad, I understand there is more than one view- must be part of that critical thinking I learned in high school).
I have a son at North, but have neither seen nor heard of these texts, so it is hard for me to judge. I do, however, get the sense that this outrage is based on something other than rational debate. Way too many questions (and good points raised by Kim and the students posting here) to take these ads at face value. I guess I’ll keep an eye out for these texts in my son’s curriculum so I can decide for myself.
Doug Halsam probably would have called people who worried about Hitler in 1933 anti-German, and would have criticized their “rantings”.
Does anyone think that textbooks supplied by Saudi Arabia are going to give an objective picture of what Islam is doing worldwide, often funded by Saudis? It’s like that ridiculous IMAX movie at the Museum of Science called “Arabia” and funded by the Saudi government. It just looks like such a peaceful and spiritual religion. Forget the atrocities committed all over the world by groups that want to eliminate anything non-Islamic.
It’s actually frightening to me how blind some people are on this blog, not to what is going on in the NPS, but to what is going on in the world. Just because you know some people who follow Islam and seem like nice people, does not mean that the movement is not dangerous at its core.
Question about this movement: is it against all Islam, or simply extremist/terrorist groups?
Doug,
If you mean AFP, which I assume you do, your question is not relevant. Like many movements, Islam wants the world to follow its doctrines and will always be the enemy of those who don’t. In areas of the world where Islam dominates, many if not most people lead a peaceful life as long as they don’t raise opposition to Islam. That lifestyle is presented as indicative of life under Islam. But, as long as there are other places or people who don’t buy it, there will be extremism/terrorism in an attempt to eliminate them. They don’t deal well with diversity. If you want to live under Islam, then keep up with your PC perspective. If you want to be a free American in a free and diverse world, then look at what’s going on and take a stand against it.
Oops, APT, not AFP.
To Doug Haslam
Name calling is not the intelligent way to respond. Look at the facts. If this kind of material is not in the schools than the Mayor should clearly say that. Questioning other people’s motives is a way of avoiding dealing with the real issue of education provided to our children. McCarthyism is unbecoming in Newton.
Thanks for answering that. I think it is important to examine critically and stand up against those who would throttle open-mindedness and freedom, and those who would use forceful tactics and single-minded persuasion to get us to think the same way they do. In that, I agree with you.
Great to see my law invoked so often in one thread.
George- I wasn’t calling names; read my comment a little more closely before accusing me (and ftr, I don’t consider “special interest group” to be a slur, as some might). As for questioning motives? What are the motives, then? It may be that these texts are objectionable and inappropriate (again, I have not seen them, therefore my clear statement that I cannot really judge yet). I can only call what I see, which is propaganda aimed at painting all Muslims with one brush, which I cannot condone. That’s all.
(edited for spelling and punctuation)
@Godwin – and the first time was only the 15th comment. That might be some kind of record.
If you have an opportunity to take about 12 minutes of your day, watch this video:
Amazing what college students don’t know about the Holocaust:
(and because they are college students, they not learning about this in high school)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V4bmm6yJMw&sns=em
To Doug Haslam
I did read your comment carefully. How else can I read these statements?
“Those who would throttle open-mindedness and freedom” “those who would use forceful tactics ” as anything but an unsubstantiated accusation.
Or more recently “propaganda aimed at painting all Muslims with one brush”.
The Ad did none of this. The Ad pointed out specific lies included in the school curriculum. Are we no longer permitted to criticize school officials? or Muslim texts? Please help me if you think the items listed in the ads were lies. Truth is not propaganda.
You continue to avoid dealing with the facts by trying to find bad motives and calling names (bigots). You know this is dishonest. Why are you reluctant to address the real issues? Which have nothing to-do with the messenger?
Why the knee-jerk reaction of trying to defend what you perceive as vulnerable minorities (Muslims) regardless of the facts?.
JLF,
Thanks.
I honestly tried to see this with an open mind, but cannot belie the impressions left by the material I see (if I ever see the school texts, I may feel the same way). If my assessment causes you to make several leaps of logic and accuse me of bigotry (or calling others bigots, it’s unclear what you mean, but neither is true), then you have helped me make up my mind, rather than trying to convince me otherwise with logic and sound argument.
This whole discourse is the reason I was reluctant to jump in in the first place, but I was also not willing to let Greg stand alone in his assessment of the tactics in question re: the original post. I should probably leave this alone before this thread devolves further and the other admins decide to close it.
Charles Jacobs — I don’t think NNHS Grad would have learned what you did about the bomber because no bomber has been convicted.
To Doug
I believe that you are a sincere caring individual trying to do the right thing. I don’t question your motives or intentions.
I also believe that you are not aware of all the facts about radical Islam and about attempts by some to use our educational system to indoctrinate students- “for their own and society’s good”.
The response to those who raise serious questions about what is going on in our schools is too often the demonization of the critics. I know that most teachers are hard working and sincere- doing what they think is best. My child attended Newton schools so I have first hand experience with what teachers are instructed to teach, and what teachers prefer to teach. Teaching has becoming a political and ideological mission.
Political Correct ideology has been creeping into our schools for a long time. The disproportionate emphasis on Israel and America’s faults and the total ignoring of third world atrocities against Christian minorities and women is indicative of a biased agenda. The biggest oppressed groups in the world today are Muslim women and Christians- How much time are Newton schools spend discussing on these subjects? Or the sad condition of African American families where over 70% or children are born out of wedlock. Are any of these subjects discussed without blaming the West or white people?
While our students continue to do poorly in global rankings our educational system keeps emphasizing certain political matters consistent with their ideology, and in my opinion to the detriment of the students.
I find it notable and frankly inspiring that the most intelligent, articulate and well-reasoned comments in this thread were made by a current student – Kaija – and a former student – NNHS grad.
Thank you both for taking the time to let your voices be heard in this discussion, knowing (given the name calling and dismissive tone that is emerging from those presenting on the other side of this debate) that doing so would not be easy. But it is incredibly important.
Dismissing concerns as irrelevant when one doesn’t have an answer, accusing others of disagreeing with you because they “don’t have all the fact” – these are ways in which some try to balk critical thinking.
And thanks to Doug and Greg for putting yourselves out there, too. I can only hope that cooler minds prevail.
Luna,
You really don’t follow what’s happening in the world do you? Maybe if a relative of yours were near the World Trade Center when the planes hit, or near the finish line of the marathon when the bombs blew up, or on the subway in London when…….
Really sad that such intelligent people are living in a fantasy world of political correctness.
“Maybe if a relative of yours were near the World Trade Center when the planes hit,”
Barry,
A relative of mine was on the first hi-jacked plane. In fact, he was flying the plane when the hi-jackers broke into the cockpit and murdered him, along with the rest of the flight crew. I know there is great evil in this world and that as a species through history we have inflicted great suffering on each other, and that there are extremists who do horrible, terrible things in the name of religion. But I also do not believe that one can paint an entire world religion according to the acts and views of an extremist minority. I know you will not agree with me, and I certainly respect and defend your right to disagree. I simply respond to say that even experiencing one of the tragedies you mentioned, it is still possible to take a different view. I had not wanted to join this thread and with that I will take my leave. Thank you.
Lisap,
If it were one tragedy, I’d agree with you. Even only a few. But, it’s epidemic. We are at war, only our side doesn’t know it. Even the Germans in WW2 consisted of a lot of nice people who probably didn’t comprehend what the Nazis were all about. But we still needed to stop them. And we need to stop Islam. Many of us like to think that they’re just like us. You know what. They’re not. Their religion teaches them a different way of thinking. People need to look at what’s happening all over the world and to connect it with a stream of such events that stretch out over many decades.
In America, unfortunately, people focus on the news, at most, not on history. So, they see what’s happening now, but have no idea of how it connects to what happened last year or last decade or last century. We’re basically a fairly stupid country of people who are more concerned with how much music or video or games they can fit on their iPads or iPhones, or how many inane connections they can make through Facebook or Twitter. Or who will win the World Series or the Super Bowl. So, when a left-wing professor tells you a bunch of lies when you are college trying to get a degree simply so you can get a job, you are easy prey.
Lisap,
By the way, I’m honestly sorry about your relative, but you, more than most people should therefore understand. Another thing wrong with us is that, as much good as Christianity can bring to people, and we are basically a Christian country for the time being, the notion of “turn the other cheek” happens not to be one of them. No Moslem will ever do so, but rather will kill you for the slightest hint of disrespect to his religion. You know, like that cartoonist, or Salman Rushdie, etc.
Barry,
The issue isn’t whats going on in the world, it’s whats being taught at the NPS. I do find it suspicious that the administration won’t come out and point blank deny any accusations. My understanding is they have refused to give this group a copy of the curriculum. It makes them look guilty, especially after claiming how transparent they claim they are (correct me if I’m wrong).
If this information is part of the curiculum teachers get, but they don’t teach it, I wouldn’t doubt that there could be some rogue teachers teaching it. (or maybe not).
Tom, you are correct. That’s the topic of the blog. But as was said, if you let Saudi-financed books be the source material for a discussion, then you aren’t getting the whole picture and that picture is an ugly one that the Saudis don’t want you to think about.
To Lisap
Statements such as :”But I also do not believe that one can paint an entire world religion according to the acts and views of an extremist minority”- are pretty standard and lame non-response to the facts.
No one painted an entire religion or group because of the acts of a few. Creating this straw-man to knock down is quite dishonest. The sad fact is that not all religions are the same, not all cultures are the same. Nazi culture was pretty bad, Confederate slave culture was also bad-so it’s possible that some cultures produce evil. There clearly were many wonderful innocent Germans who died in WW II, and many wonderful southerners did as well. Life is unfair. People suffer because of their leaders and failed societies.
Most Arab societies are sadly dysfunctional-just ask any of the Arabs-which is why they flee to Europe and America. Why do we Americans have a hard time accepting reality. Why do we project our values into others? They may not be just like us?
Read the daily news from Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Egypt, Libya etc. Why cant we appreciate how fortunate we are, and yes how exceptional. It’s amazing what America has enabled in so many of our immigrants, because of our superior (yes superior) culture. People are equal-cultures are not.
Luna, I agree the student and former student are articulate. But they have not actually addressed our concerns: 1. We really do not understand just how students are being taught “how to think but not what” … especially when they begin to repeat the post-modernist cannon: “there are no true facts…. everything is a construction,” etc.
So I keep asking, and getting no response from “your” side: Does the teacher who introduces the lesson that includes the outrageously libelous charge that Jews in Israel kill Arab women in jail” explain that this is not an opinion but a lie meant to harm Jews? (It cannot be a widely held opinion by Arabs in Israel — because if they thought this, they would fight to the death rather than let their women be taken to Israeli jails.)
What we get from your side, is that this is NOT treated as a purposeful lie, but as a legitimate “point of view.” Am I right?
Can you imagine what would happen if a racist point of view against blacks, or a misogynist point of view were presented as just one of many viewpoints?
Second, APT, my group, has on our Board Sheikh Ahmed Mansour, an Al Azar trained scholar who is a reformer and had to flee Egypt because of threats by the Muslim Brotherhood. We are NOT anti-Islamic, but we are concerned about radical Islam. I count among my friends and colleagues Irshad Manji and Zhudi Jasser, top American Muslim reformers. People who call us bigoted against Muslims either don’t know the facts or are trying to shut down the discussion.
Respectfully,
Charles Jacobs
PS: It really would be nice — as this is a serious discussion — if someone on “your side” would try to address the issue of “lies” vs. legitimate points of view.
NNHS said:
Kaija said:
Bias in primary sources can range from subtle slants to outright falsehoods, which is why students are taught to look at every primary source with skepticism, and compare the content and point of view of many sources before reaching conclusions. For goodness sake, my kids learned in 5th grade history that all sources have bias – they analyzed the famous engraving of the Boston Massacre, seeing how the depiction of events was from a particular point of view with a particular purpose – to sway public opinion.
Barry – that was really, really over the line. I would guess that many – if not most – people in our community know at least one person killed on 9/11. Many – if not most – know someone who was near the finish line in April. And yet, unlike you, many of us do not blame the religion of Islam.
Hello all,
I’m coming a bit late to the discussion, but I may be able to clarify a few things. One of the reasons why people here disagree as to the extent or presence of objectionable materials is that class materials, other than the textbook, are non-standardized. Each teacher chooses his or her own materials, which are then ‘peer reviewed’ by one or more other teachers. Therefore, different teachers have very different materials.
I haven’t seen all material from the 9th and 10th grade World History course, which is what has been reviewed so far, but from what I have seen there are classes where the material is truly awful (Israelis are accused of routinely torturing and murdering Arab women, etc) and classes where the material is basically o.k. So just because you’ve seen material from one class does not mean you’ve reviewed everything there is to soo.
Because there’s been no systematic review of all the material, it’s hard to know how extensive the problem is. Is it just a couple of teachers, or is it endemic? Until this year I think one could reasonably say the problem was widespread, as many teachers used the Arab World Studies Notebook, a much-lambasted text full of inaccuracies, bias, and outright antisemitism (see the statement cited above). Now that Superintendent Fleishman has barred the Notebook from the school, things are hopefully better.
(to be continued…)
A question for the NNHS graduates posting:
I’m curious. Who is giving you context in your discussions of these materials. Your teacher? The discussion with your classmates? The source material? or Independent research?
From what I can read of the material, I’d think context is important. But it is also important to recognize false equivalency and non-factual historic arguments. Based on this discussion and your responses, I’m not entirely sure that is being accomplished. Trying to see others viewpoints is a worthwhile task, but it is important to stay grounded in facts when doing so. Everyone’s viewpoints aren’t equally right, hard as that can be to hear.
For example, if someone was raised from birth to view me as a murderer and my people as evil, that is their viewpoint. But it is not the truth, it is neither factual nor grounded in logic. I can acknowledge the viewpoint but recognize that such viewpoint is wrong as well.
To Tricia:
“why students are taught to look at every primary source with skepticism, and compare the content and point of view of many sources before reaching conclusions.”
As you know it takes significant amount of study to read and understand all point of views, its historical context and one also needs some life experience,(outside the school) to separate facts from fiction from B.S.
Few people invest the time to reach that level of competence. The reality is, and always has been that the teacher controls most of what students know (yes, with the internet ambitious students may learn more-but few are willing to challenge authority- or risk their grades).
So on a practical basis we depend on an honest educational process. Having seen the Newton school system first hand-that is NOT the case on political matters.
And given the politization of education-(political correctness run amok). It’s almost impossible to have an honest conversation. Do you think that subjects like gay rights, abortion, gun control, and dysfunctional Arab societies can be fairly discussed in the Newton public schools? To hear people talk about a vigorous debate of all sides-is surreal.
Thanks George and Fig.
You both make good points about who controls what is learned (the teacher and the materials) and how it takes a great deal of study to really understand many issues.
I’ve worked on this issue for two years. I had a pretty good knowledge of Middle Eastern history, especially with respect to Israel and to Jewish minorities in Arab nations. prior to that time, and have learned a great deal more researching assumptions and purported facts in student materials. It was clear from the beginning that neither students nor School Committee members know enough to make statements about the accuracy or bias of the material in question. (The reason I wrote ‘students’ is because School Committee members came up with the absurd idea that the curriculum must be good because their children liked it). Both groups are intelligent and well-read. But they lack familiarity with the facts needed about Jewish history, Islamic history, and the history of Israel to properly evaluate the materials.
You can’t comment intelligently on a subject you know little about. With all due respect to Kaija and others, the overwhelming majority of students wouldn’t know a biased text if it hit them on the head. There’s nothing wrong with that – they’re students and are in school to learn. But claiming that a tenth grade student who has spent all of couple of weeks of class time – a total of eight hours – is able to discern whether a the material they use in class is inaccurate or biased is just plain wrong. If they are knowledgeable enough to critique the material, why would they need to learn it?
No one has disputed that some teachers used well-researched material and presented issues relating to the Middle East, Judaism, Islam, and Israel fairly. However, this was not the case in all classrooms. The fact that one person had a good experience in a class doesn’t mean that other students, with a different teacher and different materials, had a good experience as well. Is this really so difficult to understand?
No one is saying that Newton schools are full of terrible teachers or that all school materials are inappropriate. What we ARE saying is that some materials used in high school World History courses are inaccurate and biased to the point where they should be (and indeed have been) removed.
In fact, school administrators have already removed two inappropriate materials from classes and the Newton North library. the schools. The materials that were removed had been used in Newton classrooms for several years. During that entire time, information that at least one of the materials was full of inaccuracies was readily available. If you don’t believe me, google reviews for the Arab World Studies Notebook or take a look at those on the website http://www.newtonexcellence.org. Then come back and tell me why the Notebook – which has been excoriated by both liberal and conservative groups – is appropriate for Newton students.
Fortunately, it looks like schools administrators will meet with representatives from Parents for Excellence in Newton Schools (PENS), an organization working on the issue of biased and inappropriate curricula, in the near future. The Newton North principal and history department chair appear to be (rightly) concerned about the issue, and we believe that additional material will be removed or revised this year. So why are some people on this board ‘outraged’ at the suggestion that Newton just might have an issue with some materials used in history courses?
I wonder if any of those so busily defending the history department from this terrible fate (that is, having to look at some material and remove it if it does not meet quality standards) has ever bothered to look the material we are talking about. The material – which come from just two out of many World History classrooms – is at http://www.newtonexcellence.org. Also available at the website are critiques of those materials, complete with links to reliable sources. Please read them to learn more about this issue. It may not be as much fun as being ‘outraged’ about those awful people who pointed out (major) flaws in the curriculum, but you will learn a hell of a lot more.
The way I read it, that’s precisely the impression the ads and the website are designed to create.
Quite a few hot-headed comments have been made since my previous post, and I no longer feel completely comfortable debating on this forum for fear that my comments will be grossly bent and misinterpreted. I would, however, like to try and clarify some of my words.
First: I said that very little is taught as ‘fact’. I should have used the word ‘truth’ in it’s place. Of course there are events that definitely did happen and we do read about, investigate and discuss them wholly. Inherent in this holistic discussion is, by definition, the use of multiple primary sources from many perspectives. Documents like these that are not factually valid still share the ‘truth’ believed by many people and are vital in understanding the whole picture.
Second: teachers are rarely viewed as an authority on any subject. They facilitate organized discussion and ensure improvement in their students. If a student disagrees with a social science teacher on any point, they are often more than welcome to do their own research and correct the professor.
Third: I promise topics including and not limited to gay rights, abortion, gun control, and dysfunction in societies worldwide are discussed to the best of Newton’s students’ ability. No one will argue with the fact that the city is disproportionately left-leaning. That doesn’t mean we’re incapable of trying to understand the entirety of any topic.
With that said, I’d like to ask some of the posters here to try and remain a bit more civil in their discourse. There is a bit too much thoughtless culture-bashing and hearsay going on in this thread. I agree that it’s vital to teach these sensitive topics well in Newton’s schools, and the best way to do that is by creating an open discussion between all members of the community free of harassment and bullying.
I’m a busy person, and simply don’t have the time to read through unrelated arguments to find legitimate inquiries worth responding to, so I’ve set up an email account ([email protected]); you’re welcome to shoot me questions, comments or concerns regarding the 13 years I spent in the public school system. I’m happy to reply to the best of my ability.
Greg –
You’re correct, it’s more accurate to say “I’m not saying that Newton schools are full of terrible teachers….”. My words should speak for myself only.
I’m not a member of Charles Jacob’s group and don’t agree with the ‘hit-and-run’ tactics he uses. I’ve been meeting with school administrators for over a year about these issues. The tactic of publishing large ads which lump together materials meant for discussion (“A World Where Womanhood Reigns Supreme”) with materials claimed to be factual (the Arab World Studies Notebook, A Muslim Primer) demonstrates a lack of understanding about the issues.
This doesn’t mean I don’t have any objection to the use of the ‘Womanhood’ essay – a TRULY balanced curriculum would also include material from, for example, a woman who feels the hijab is demeaning. The fact that only one side is presented – even is what is presented is meant for discussion – is a subtle form of bias. What I am saying is that someone spending $20,000.00 on newspaper ads should thoroughly understand the issues involved, which doesn’t seem to be the case, and care enough about the issues to stick around and do the hard work of research and persuasion instead of throwing some money and walking away.
I’d like to to see the “very bad bits of text” that Charles said he had received. How about it Charles, do the rest of us get to see this material, which will certainly shed light on the issue we’re discussing? Or will you echo the NPS claim that no one else can have access to the materials because they’re ‘private’?
Lack of openness and disrespect for others, even if they want the same things (i.e. a great school system) has been the hallmark of this controversy from the beginning. A school system which requires parents to file a public records request in order to find out what their child will be learning during the year is disrespectful to parents, students, and taxpayers. A school system which restricts what subjects teachers can discuss with parents is disrespectful to teachers, parents, and students. A school system which retaliates against parents by insisting on ‘monitoring’ conversations between teachers and parents who report problems with the curriculum – a tactic I thought was only used in the former East Germany and in North Korea – is disrespectful to teachers, parents, and the spirit of democracy and the Constitution.
We deserve better. The curriculum and materials used should be public available online. If our schools are so uniformly ‘excellent’, as Matt Hills states, we should have nothing to hide. Harvard University and MIT – both private institutions not subject to the same requirements of access as state institutions – have already done this, putting all class materials including teacher notes online. If they can do it, why can’t we?
Barry Cohen comments on how Newton students are brainwashed. This is a guess for him. He is old and has no children in the system. He is estimating.
This is fear mongering. Jingoism. You people should be ashamed of yourselves. Especially given the fact that students have weighed in. Also the fact that we have no extremists being bred from this abominable curriculum. Shameful how you underestimate the intelligence of our children.
To Kerry
It seems that you have done a fair amount of research on Newton schools and you have correctly noted how some students have an exaggerated sense of how much they know.
Also, it is scary to learn what kind of control freaks school officials can be.
What is missing from these exchanges is the fact that Newton Schools are not unique. Biased, political correct education is happening in many states. This is driven by politicized teachers colleges, and special interest groups who have influence text publishers.
@George,
I really did not wish to be drawn back into this thread, but since you addressed me directly I will offer a limited reply. You said: “No one painted an entire religion or group because of the acts of a few. Creating this straw-man to knock down is quite dishonest.”
With all due respect, this issue has been ongoing for some time and you may be unaware of prior statements which expose the beliefs of some of the actors involved in this matter. The Open Newton Schools page prominently displays an interview with a parent and Margot Einstein, a former educator who has been significantly involved in this issue since 2011. What they have not shared, however, is the portion where Ms. Einstein expresses her own anti-Islamic views:
“. . . this is soft influence our children are getting that Islam is okay it’s wonderful, it’s benign, the teacher -the head of the history department this morning told me it’s – Jesus -it’s the same, it’s the same – we’re all the same – and yet there is danger here, Jackie, danger-”
That’s not a “strawman” George. This is a real flesh and blood individual who has been a prominent actor in this controversy for nearly two years, and who believes our schools are “totally tipped over to Islamic jihad”. This is an individual who does in fact paint an entire religion with the acts of a few and has a particular view of Islam which she wants to be taught in the schools — one that teaches children that Islam is neither benign nor “okay”. I am not going to paint all individuals who are involved in this matter with the same brush stroke. There are quite a few people who are genuinely concerned about the quality of curricular materials. But, I am also not going to ignore the fact that some of these individuals espouse views I find deeply disturbing. Nor can I ignore that there are others in this effort who freely associate with individuals identified by anti-hate groups such as the Southern Poverty Law Center for their deeply anti-Muslim views.
You can view the entire program here: http://www.newtv.org/video/civicaction/tony-paliuso-and-margot-einstein/
What if the city sets up a citizen committee to overlook and approve curriculum? Would that aaleviate some, if not all, concerns that everyone has?
NNHS Grad, thanks for blogging, but stay away from this blog…it’s toxic.
NNHS Grad (and all new commenters), you are welcome to this blog any time. Some posts, like this one, generate heated conversations, but there are a group of admins who are all too happy to act if conversations veer off-topic or in otherwise inappropriate manners. Despite some of the rhetoric and heat on both sides here, we have largely stayed in the topic (evidenced by the fact we have not closed it to commenting).
This blog, as a whole, is hardly “toxic” – have a look around. I object to that characterization of a blog that stimulates a lot of interesting and useful community discussion.
@Lisap
With all due respect, I think you are conflating several things. The facts in the ad stand on their own-either they are true or not. To try to smear the people who promote the ad is not fair or honest. Just because America hating communists supported the civil rights movement did not mean that the movement was wrong.
So if you think the facts in the ad are lies please describe why. I am sure you would support an open learning environment-that enables parents to know what is being taught in the schools-Why wont school officials make the curriculum public-on the web?
I also think you should be careful about calling people bigots because they raise questions about how Islam is taught in schools. All religions are different-to pretend that they are all the same is silly. Both Islam and Christianity have been imperialistic religions at different times in history. In recent centuries Christianity has mostly used missionaries. Islam traditionally used the sword and coercion-which in many places continues today-(just read the news about what is happening to Christians in the Middle East and Africa). So to say that Islam is not like other religions is not bigotry-no matter what the highly politicized liberal and bigoted people at the Southern Poverty Law Center may say.
@Lisap
An additional comment. I am puzzled why some people feel the need to believe in false equivalence- in this case that all religions or cultures are the same. I think it’s a simplistic mechanism to avoid dealing with the true complexity of differences among people-that perhaps threatens a utopian belief that we can all get along without conflict-where in fact there are real differences in how people find meaning in life.
Also, once such equivalence is accepted as dogma, an article of faith-any one who deviates is considered un-virtuous , so that disagreement is labeled bigotry. Moreover, while it’s a noble impulse to try to protect perceived vulnerable minorities-that can not mean that these groups are above criticism-the fear of potential backlash is no excuse for censoring free speech.
George, clearly we also disagree as to what constitutes a “smear”. Transcribing a quote and providing a direct link to the source if the quote in its entirety isn’t dishonesty under any rational view of good advocacy. Like the ad, the recorded interview speaks for itself. As to the veracity of the ads claims, as the parent of three current high schoolers who were either just recently or are enrolled in the classes of such great concern to you, I will unequivocally state that I have seen absolutely no evidence of the bias or materials described in this ad. Neither I nor any other parent is witness to classroom discussions. However I have reviewed most of the curriculum materials used by my kids with specific reference to these claims and found none of the disputed materials were used in my kids classes. I do agree, however, that the educational environment would be greatly improved for all children if teachers created and used a clear course syllabus, made use of web tools a available through the district and made materials available online. The curriculum and course expectations should not be a mystery to students.
Lastly, I am not calling anyone a bigot for raising the issue of how Islam is taught in the schools. Even bigots can raise legitimate concerns. I draw my conclusions as to whether one is bigoted from the the views they espouse or warmly embrace.
Thank you, Lisa, you beat me to it. That’s thesecond time George has put that word in someone’s mouth when that is not at all what was meant.
Doug – you’re welcome.
I also want to address George’s comments concerning false equivalence vis a vis religions and cultures: whether and to what extent religions are equivalent requires a non neutral evaluative determination. Without getting too far astray, in the context of public schools, the establishment clause of the First Amendment prevents the favoring of one religion over another. Thus, the First Amendment demands that religion be taught in a manner which is neutral and neither promotes not denigrates one religion in favor of others.
To that point, that has been my experience thus far with my son’s NPS education, encompassing origins and basic tenets of all major religions, relevant to the era being covered.I have yet to see any of the texts being referenced in the original post, so it’s really hard for me to judge. I can only give my reaction to the rhetoric being displayed (and give kudos to some of the more rational commenters here, including Kerry Hurwitz).
I just want to quickly weigh in on this; not address specific concerns, but just state that I, who have been in the Newton Public Schools system for 11 years, like Kaija and NNHS grad, have not seen any evidence of bias towards any religious sect. To those reckoning that we have been not exposed to the horrors of some Islamic states: that is blatantly false. I can recall many instances in my 9th and 10th grade history classes where we discussed the oppression perpetrated by these theocratic states against women, against the people, etc. Sure, we may have skipped some of the gory details (I’m sure you can appreciate why) but the general message was still clear: by no means were these diminished in any way. Of the texts mentioned, the ones I myself have seen are ones used to facilitate discussion (e.g. the Womanhood article) and not ones to be accepted as fact; in particular, in response to Kerry Hurwitz, I would say that we most definitely touched on how the hijab was seen by many women as oppressive, especially in the West: this document was just to give us another viewpoint on the matter, not give us something to be accepted as fact.
Second, I have actually never seen those materials cited as purporting to be factual, the Arab Studies textbook being one mentioned frequently – I have talked to a bunch of other people (around 20-30 others) and they confirmed that they do not recall ever using that textbook or the Primer in class. That is not to say that they were not used at all (I don’t know), but just to give you a sense of the frequency. That kind of slander is definitely a problem, but I have to say that documents slandering from the other side were much more common. I have definitely seen documents painting Islam under one brush, but by no means were these documents intended to display the truth but rather to give us the viewpoint of a particular group of people. Similarly, with the textbook and the Primer, some of the complaints brought up in the ad are so basic and trivial that it’s hard to see where their ‘glorification of Islam’ is coming from.
Thus, while I do believe that openness is a step in the right direction and it will facilitate better discussion, I think part of the reason for the lack of openness is the “hit-and-run” tactics, as you’ve described them, with blatant lies or misleading statements mixed in with some true ones, as seen in the ad. For an argument to be taken seriously, the details behind it must be well-researched and not taken out of context, as we see here. Otherwise, it simply seems like the hostile gestures of an extremely partisan group willing to twist the facts at its disposal. To really achieve openness, which I think is an admirable goal, this kind of argument needs to be reined in and open discussion, like that of Kerry Hurwitz rather than barbed statements and outright demonization of the school system, needs to take place.
In the end, I think there is something to be strived for: offensive documents should be removed if they are such, which is why I applaud the removal of something like the textbook mentioned. However, saying that the NPS system is glorifying Islam and demonizing Israel is blatantly false; from what I can see, there may be a couple documents used that may have contained offensive material, but by no means do these characterize the system as a whole, which is one of tolerance and questioning.
Finally, I just want to respond to the following claim: “With all due respect to Kaija and others, the overwhelming majority of students wouldn’t know a biased text if it hit them on the head. There’s nothing wrong with that – they’re students and are in school to learn. But claiming that a tenth grade student who has spent all of couple of weeks of class time – a total of eight hours – is able to discern whether a the material they use in class is inaccurate or biased is just plain wrong. If they are knowledgeable enough to critique the material, why would they need to learn it?”
I would take issue with the first of these claims, but let’s say, for the sake of simplicity, that is true. Even if that is the case, the fact is that the majority of documents used in history classes are not biased towards Islam and many of them, albeit subtly, may be biased against Islam. Sure, there may be a couple that could be construed as the former, but, balancing it out, I cannot see the argument for our schooling system subtly turning us against the West and towards Islam: these documents simply give us a richer view of things. For instance, getting away from religious issues for a moment, the traditionalist view on imperialism (one that is Eurocentric) paints it as an event that helped gather capital for European countries and help them grow; our history classes exposed us to the atrocities committed in the name of imperialism in places like India, Africa, etc. This is not demonizing European countries, but simply giving us a fuller, richer perspective on such events.
Second of all, the reason the teacher is there is to teach the student to discern such bias. When we read documents in or out of class, they are not meant to be just read; they are meant to be discussed. And, in these discussions, we almost invariably discuss the bias of the authors and how that is affecting what he/she is writing.
Oops, in this section, I meant “concerning the documents besides the textbook and the Primer,” not the other way around :).
“Similarly, with the textbook and the Primer, some of the complaints brought up in the ad are so basic and trivial that it’s hard to see where their ‘glorification of Islam’ is coming from.”
To Doug and Lisap
Calling anyone you don’t really know a racist or bigot is dishonest. To claim that you really know their position on Islam without a comprehensive discussion with them is dishonest. Too often people shut down discussion by name calling-racist and bigot the the current favorite-also Nazi.
So let’s look at the facts. Just because Lisa’s child did not see biased materials does not mean it does not exist. The school has admitted to having the Arab Notebook which the school concluded is inappropriate. How many such texts exist in the schools in Newton? The School has not denied the facts in the ad.
Lisap- regarding your statement: “the First Amendment demands that religion be taught in a manner which is neutral and neither promotes not denigrates one religion in favor of others.” I dont think that the first amendment proscribes or demands anything of the educational process. Please read the bill or rights carefully before reaching legal conclusions.
The first amendment has nothing todo with teaching history. We can certainly talk about the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, Church supported slavery etc. So we can also talk about Islam’s massive enslavement of African and Europeans for over 1000 years. We can talk about Dhimmitude(please look it up) and the oppression and slaughter of non-Muslims for over 1000 years. The first amendment does not censor us from discussing the oppression of women in Muslim countries. All this can be discussed without violating religious freedom, such discussions honor the first amendment’s free speech provision. I think you’re confusing sensitivity with honest discussion of the historical record- for the sake of not offending and maintaining a false equivalence.
Lisap
Additional information that may be helpful if you’re interested in a different view of what is being taught in Newton Schools-see short video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY
An honest educational process would incorporate such information.
George, Just to respond to your misunderstanding if the First Amendment, acquaint yourself with some scholarly texts regarding the establishment clause and the teaching of religion in schools. I don’t have the time or energy to teach you some basic civics and trust you can access sufficient resources which will unequivocally demonstrate how utterly mistaken you are on this subject.
We didn’t call you a bigot. I don’t know how much plainer we can say it. Seriously. Wow.
George, your video, while interesting, is not really that surprising: every single holy text has such violent verses and, though they are not necessarily given such a strict interpretation, are just as bad: I mean, consider Deuteronomy 22:28: “If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.” Almost every religion advocates the killing of non-believers and the spreading of itself (see Deuteronomy for many of these things), but the actual carrying out of the religion and its basic tenets are different.
Nevertheless, the argument that Islam is inherently evil (which is not true, in my mind) is a totally different one, and something that is hotly contested anyways; the real argument you’re making is that NPS schools are biased towards Islam, which I contend that they are not. See my argument above.
Thirdly, many (the vast majority) of the facts in the ads are taken out of context and thus actually diminish the validity of a couple points in it, mostly to do with a textbook that has already been removed: see my post above.
Fourth, the First Amendment most definitely does mandate that things are dealt with in such a way as to treat each religion equally and fairly, and simply listing all of the awful things committed in the name of Islam would be to do it an injustice and ignore all of the awful things committed in the name of other religions and the relative equality in places like, for instance Moorish Spain. Islam, like every religion, is a mixed bag. To respond to your citation of dhimmitude, I would quote the reputed historian Bernard Lewis of Princeton University, who said of the Islamic world in the Middle Ages: “If we look at the considerable literature available about the position of Jews in the Islamic world, we find two well-established myths. One is the story of a golden age of equality, of mutual respect and cooperation, especially but not exclusively in Moorish Spain; the other is of “dhimmi”-tude, of subservience and persecution and ill treatment. Both are myths. Like many myths, both contain significant elements of truth, and the historic truth is in its usual place, somewhere in the middle between the extremes.”
As I said, a mixed bag: not completely evil, not completely good.
George writes: “I dont think that the first amendment proscribes or demands anything of the educational process. Please read the bill or rights carefully before reaching legal conclusions.”
Well George, think again. . .
Perhaps we could begin with Board of Ed., Island Trees Union Free School District No. 26 v. Pico, a 1982 U.S. Supreme Court case in which the court stated that local school boards may not remove books from school library shelves simply because they dislike the ideas contained in those books and seek, by their removal, to prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion or other matters of opinion, stating: “[W]e have necessarily recognized that the discretion of the States and local school boards in matters of education must be exercised in a manner that comports with the transcendent imperatives of the First Amendment.”
Then of course, there is the decision in Epperson v. Arkansas, a 1968 case where the Supreme Court invalidated the Arkansas anti-evolution statute as violative of the Establishment Clause, and reaffirmed the duty of federal courts “to apply the First Amendment’s mandate in our educational system where essential to safeguard the fundamental values of freedom of speech and inquiry.”
In a slightly different context, in 1966 the U.S. Supreme Court overturned a N.Y. State sedition law which included, among other prohibitions, a proscription upon public school teachers from teaching any doctrine of forcible overthrow of the government on First Amendment Grounds. See, Keyishian v. Board of Regents of University of State of N.Y.
And on and on I could go. First Amendment litigation is complex, voluminous and the relationship of the First Amendment to public education a complex subject matter well beyond the scope of this blog, but I trust you will find this helpful.
Lastly, George, may I make a suggestion: It’s really best to assume that if individuals are not informed about something you mention or a term you use, that if so interested, assume they have the facility to find further information without Schoolmarmish admonitions to look things up. To repeatedly admonish other posters that way is needlessly condescending. I realize you are new to this Blog. Welcome. I hope you will stay around as we all can and do learn much from each other.
@Lisa
I am not sure we are talking about the same Bill of Rights- I can assure you that you are totally mistaken. We are talking about teaching history and free speech. There are no restrictions on free speech- we can say whatever we want about religion especially the truth-at least for now. You are imagining a political correct first amendment not the real one. Public education has a responsibility to teach truthful knowledge not some sanitized version that will not offend.
@Doug
Lisa certainly called Ms Einstein a bigot- see her comments above.
@Kavish Gandhi
Dhimmitude is no myth it’s a live and well in all Muslim countries -as there is no equality for non-Muslims today.
Just ask Copts, Christians and Jews who have fled this apartheid system.
check out the film about the Jewish Dhimmis of the Arab world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH8RL2XRr48
It’s feel-good thinking to imagine that the truth lies in the middle between extremes—or that violent Christianity from the Middle Ages can be equated with violent Islam today. We don’t live in the Middle Ages.
Nope. Wrong. Again
@George
What? Lisap just gave you a list completely refuting your statement; refute that before saying “you are totally mistaken.”
Second, I was assuming you meant dhimmitude as it applied to things like Moorish Spain, not the contemporary usage. My mistake.
I was not equating violent Christianity of the Middle Ages with violent Islam of today; my statement implied nothing of the sort.
Third, this discussion has veered completely off topic; I have not heard you refute our contentions with your assertion that the NPS system is glorifying Islam, for which there is no strong evidence besides a few stray documents which I agree should be removed. I myself, communicating with some of my fellow classmates at NNHS, have heard nothing but “What? NNHS… anti-Semitic?” I agree with the idea that there should be transparency (see my longer post above detailing this and my response to Kerry Hurwitz) whenever possible (certain things, for obvious reasons, cannot be shared due to copyright issues), but the idea that NNHS is anti-Israel is ludicrous to me.
@Doug.
re calling people bigots: here is what Lisa said:
“What they have not shared, however, is the portion where Ms. Einstein expresses her own anti-Islamic views:”
I am quite sure that is calling someone a bigot.
@Lisap -quotes various court rulings none suggest that we should not teach the historical truth in public schools. Teaching the historical truth does not mean favoring anyone except the truth.
@Kavish Gandhi- The dhimma contract is an integral part of traditional Islamic sharia law which describes the discriminatory treatment of non-Muslims. The dhimma was developed as a result of Islamic imperialism (starting in the 7th century)- which saw Islam conquer Christian lands (Middle East) and rule over vast numbers of non-Muslims. These Jim Crow like laws are still in effect in most Muslim countries.
I never said that Newton Schools are anti-Semitic. They certainly contain materials that is anti Israel and white wash Islamic history and Arab genocidal intentions against the Jewish state.
@George,
Oh my, oh my – it seems we need to go back a little further in our civics lesson. You see, George, the materials I am quoting from are cases by the Supreme Court – the United States Supreme Court; that is, the court which interprets cases arising under the United States Constitution and federal laws. These are definitive rulings concerning the First Amendment – that is, the First Amendment as it appears in the Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution of the United States of America. The First Amendment which applies to the States through the 14th amendment (don’t worry – this gets a little complicated – just try to take this as fact). These cases address issues on public schools and arise under the First Amendment. Now, perhaps you are talking about some other Bill of Rights. I have no idea. But I am talking about the Bill of Rights which commonly refers to the first ten amendments to the United States Constitution. George wants to pretend that the First Amendment has no relation to education, the educational process, the educational rights of students and teachers, how, whether and in what manner religion may lawfully be addressed in the context of a public school, etc, etc. Unfortunately, he’s not interested in any genuine authority on the matter. C’est la vie. None are so blind as those who will not see, and all that.
@Kavish – not to worry. An anecdotal story I learned in law school goes like this: when you have the facts, you argue the facts. When you have the law, you argue the law. When you have neither, just yell.
@Lisa- as a non lawyer, I can not respond to your cases- except to say that we are not talking about teaching religion but teaching history. Please enlighten me about restrictions the first amendment places on teaching history. Ofcourse ultimately this is all about who decides what our students learn and what rights do parents have in the matter. My hearing is still pretty good- and I certainly did not hear anyone yelling-just perhaps obfuscating the key issues of this topic.
@Kavish,
P.S.
I just wanted to acknowledge the incredibly thoughtful and articulate posts from both you and NNHS Grad. When I read such insightful and carefully drafted comments, I am proud and inspired not merely by the thoughtfulness of the ideas you express, but by the knowledge that you have indeed received a very valuable education in the Newton Public Schools. Whether I agree with the thoughts and comments of other posters, I must believe that we all are committed to an ideal which promotes the excellence of the education you and your peers receive in this City.
Kavish,
I second that. I have been impressed by what all the students and recent grads have brought to the conversation.
@Doug will you acknowledge that Lisa call someone a bigot? My children are graduates of NNHS- the school has some outstanding teachers and some amazing students- but it neglects kids who come from Newtonville and the less wealthy villages of Newton. Kids from professional parent do well-which they would anyway in most suburban schools. None of this refutes that some of the materials used in some of the classes are hateful and lies.
No.
@Kavish,
Here is a short history of Islamic imperialism:
“A mere decade after the birth of Islam in the 7th century, the jihad burst out of Arabia. Leaving aside all the thousands of miles of ancient lands and civilizations that were permanently conquered, today casually called the “Islamic world” — including Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and parts of India and China — much of Europe was also, at one time or another, conquered by the sword of Islam.
Among other nations and territories that were attacked and/or came under Muslim domination are (to give them their modern names in no particular order): Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, Sicily, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Greece, Russia, Poland, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Lithuania, Romania, Albania, Serbia, Armenia, Georgia, Crete, Cyprus, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Macedonia, Belarus, Malta, Sardinia, Moldova, Slovakia, and Montenegro.
In 846 Rome was sacked and the Vatican defiled by Muslim Arab raiders; some 700 years later, in 1453, Christendom’s other great basilica, Constantinople’s Holy Wisdom (or Hagia Sophia) was conquered by Muslim Turks, permanently.”
Please let me know if they teach this at NNHS?
This is an interesting discussion. I think the problem is that many issues of concern to many different people are being conflated into one discussion and are confusing the issue. George is being attacked here as I am. I think our discussion is really more about our fear of what Islam has done throughout history and the fact that this history appears to be repeating itself today, and we know the downside of not knowing history. Others here are narrowly focused on what is being taught in the NPS which is of course the topic of Jacobs’ ad and the blog. But, honestly, it’s difficult to not deal with both, since it appears that the questionable materials, like that Saudi-sponsored OMNI movie “Arabia” at the MOS, may be part of a world-wide strategy to whitewash what some followers of Islam do. One may look at the materials and not be too concerned, or one may say that they conform to some of the Bill of Rights. This is a legalistic argument. I will say again that material may be legally allowable, but, one can bias thinking even with legally allowable materials, especially by omission of different and conflicting aspects of history.
I am more concerned with the incursion of Islam beyond the 22 members of the Arab League or the 57 members of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation. I have no desire to be Muslim. But, if we don’t keep our eyes open, then some day we won’t have the choice. There is no choice in most of the countries of those organizations. Or if there is a choice, there is tacitly accepted non-governmental harassment and violence against non-Muslims. Their system doesn’t allow for the growth of nuclei of competing ways of thinking. We in the west, who believe in plurality and freedom allow for it, but it may be the cause of our downfall.
Maybe the topic of Kerry Hurwitz’ letter or Charles Jacobs’ organization should be the limit of our debate, but it is really like not talking about the s0-called elephant in the room.
I obviously agree with Barry. The purpose of teaching is to enable the next generation to lead a better and wiser life. Learning from the wisdom of others and from the lessons of history are critical. As George Satayana pointed out “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”.
Many of the well intentioned comments are defensive and protective about Newton schools, students and teachers-while ignoring the main issues namely: Biased material is being introduced, such materials are not there by accident but are a part of an ideological and political agenda. Other materials are being intentionally suppressed to conform with the politics of those in power of our schools.
Saudi Arabia has spend billions on influencing America-in universities and in K-12 education. The Saudis are enabled by a multiculturalism and moral relativism which dominate our culture and educational process.
To the 3 students-
You’re all awesome and I love it when you beat up on us old f@rts. I see law school for all 3 of you. Kudos, keep it up!!!
Agreed, Tom 🙂
What do you guys think is so “awesome”?
The students give their honest recounting of what they saw, how it was used, and betray that at least some of the students are taught to think critically, and also express themselves with eloquence and level temper (certainly better than I have) without overreacting to propaganda from either side. That’s what I see in these responses. I’d love to see more like that.
Doug, I’m not sure who the three students are, but I think you mean these
from Gaija Kahn
Every history teacher I have ever had or heard about has done a phenomenal job of addressing all sides of any discussion on religion, portraying Islam, Judaism, Christianity, and other religions fairly and within historical context.
from NNHS Grad
Though it is would not strictly conform to the curriculum, we did in fact discuss contemporary issues including polygamy, mutation and honor killings. We dissected the Boston Bombings in AP European History and covered scandals in the Catholic Church during psychology. We openly discus Israel, and every student is allowed to conclude for him or herself whether the state’s actions are justified. No one is ever told who and what is right or wrong.
There is no brainwashing at North.
from Luna (is this the third student?)
I find it notable and frankly inspiring that the most intelligent, articulate and well-reasoned comments in this thread were made by a current student – Kaija – and a former student – NNHS grad.
I think that few people are able to be certain they aren’t being fed biased material, either obviously, or by selection of what to present or not present, or by leading discussions in certain directions through asking provocative but seemingly objective questions.
So, how does Kaija know that all the religions were portrayed fairly and in a truthful historical context? History is extremely subjective and the number of facts required to understand religions which have adherents with many points of view are overwhelming. It’s really easy in a Facebook/Twitter society to think that one understands a topic with 120 words.
And NNHS Grad says they discussed Israel and were allowed to conclude whether what they do is right or wrong. Why? Why discuss Israel at all? Did they discuss Somalia, Iran, Burma, Zimbabwe, Cuba, Pakistan, China, etc., and try to conclude who is right and wrong? Do they have the facts to do so? Does looking at a wall and concluding that Palestinians are being separated tell you why it’s necessary?
This could go on. The problem begins with the notion that students can even discuss this things intelligently and pat themselves on the back as Luna is doing, when they have little of the vast amount of information necessary to understand the issues. Then they can be victims of subtle indoctrination without understanding that they lack the entire spectrum of facts. And, yes, there are facts in history. School should be a place to accumulate facts which have been vetted and are historically indisputable.
And by the way, the book referenced “A World Where Womanhood Reigns Supreme” is one person’s point of view and biases students to think that this is how to view Islam. Again, one can pick source material, and, although it seems to be being discussed openly, simply using it creates a bias.