Sumukh Tendulkar is a member of the School Council at Newton South
Most of us are aware that NPS will have FTE cuts because of budget shortfall, and enrollment decline. People have blamed enrollment decline on falling birth rates ( Fleishman https://vimeo.com/653880705 1:03:00) or on housing policy ( a resident in letter to Boston Globe)
Here are some facts and yes few opinions.
What you need to know:
- Number of school going children in Newton has GROWN for a long time, and remained flat in recent years.
- This decline is primarily because more and more families are choosing private over public.
- Newton had historically a poor rate of 17% students choosing private. That rate has now dropped to 24% (Newton ranks amongst the bottom 10 school districts in the state)
- Trend towards private is a long term trend (see below) and was not caused by current mayor/superintendent (however, they have done nothing to change it)
- School enrollment decline, like rankings, are lagging indicator and really point to a different root cause (that I do not know).
- Enrollment decline can be a slippery slope: Students leave → Teachers get cut → Programs get cut OR class sizes increase OR neighborhood schools get shut → More students leaving….
We can all guess, but we do not know why more and more people are choosing private over public. We need to first, acknowledge (or disprove) we have a problem and then find out why people are making this choice.
What can you do:
- SC and the mayor, obviously consider this to be an issue. They ask good question, for eg: https://vimeo.com/653880705 at 25:00. Ask them – Besides asking good questions, how are they getting the answers? Was there a followup to these good questions? What actions are they taking ?
- WDYT – Creating a Blue Ribbon Commission of invested experts to get to the bottom of the problem, and create a plan to address it.
And not a single mention of COVID in this post? It would be disingenuous to suggest that the last two years are just an acceleration of an existing trend.
What is behind the longer trend? So many questions. How about looking at data for changing city demographics, including wealth, and how that impacts private school enrollment in other communities. Are the trends city-wide? Have they been explored by census track or school district?
What else is not my mentioned, we so disliked what Newton public schools was doing for covid , we out our daughter online at a community college. She liked it so much, she took her GEDs and skipped her last two years of high school. She thrived at the community college. She was not approved to take honors classes pre-covid and felt she was held back from acheiving her full potential. We did not have a good experience. Sjr now has a 3.5 how and graduates 2 years early than her peers with an AA degree. And she was not allowed to take any honors classes ….something is wrong here !
Adam – the bottom graph seems to show that the percentage of Newton students in private school was pretty flat … until Covid hit. i.e. there doesn’t seem to be a longer trend.
It looks like there was slight dip in 2014, 2015 and a slight rise in 2015, 2016. It appears the exodus started with Covid.
I agree with Jerry….the numbers until covid as a % of whole is more accurate and was mostly flat.
Looks to me that private school enrollment has been slowly and steadily increasing, but 2021 is certainly an outlier.
Do we have a problem? Ya, probably. We won’t understand that problem until we have more data, why isn’t getting that data the first step?
Can someone please explain what is meant in the OP by a “poor rate” of students choosing private school — does this mean the rate is low compared to other peer districts (eg Needham, Wellesley, Natick), or that the rate is high comparatively?
There certainly seems to me to be a COVID-based trend among people I know of people pulling their kids from NPS to attend private schools that were open full time in Fall 2020. But does that explain the huge jump between Fall 2020 and Fall 2021, when NPS were open full time?
Of course we don’t know for sure, but as someone who grew up here in the 80’s and attended NPS schools, it’s hard to imagine that the (albeit gradually) increasing trend of people sending their kids to private schools is unrelated to the incredibly rapid increase in housing costs in Newton and the concomitant change in income demographics. The cost of entry into the housing market means increasingly the people moving here are extremely wealthy and have lots of choices for where to send their kids to school, and also may come from families with generational wealth where private school is a more natural traditional choice.
Poor = Newton is 5th from the bottom in % of students attending public schools. (FYI- Wellesley is 4th). This is 5th from 250-300 of so districts in the state.
Poor or just low? What else do these communities have in common? Is it fair to assume that choices are made based on the quality of public schools? Some may choose schools because of a religious affiliation, or to seek a lower student/teacher ratio or other benefits of a private school education. Expendable income just might be a factor for some as well.
I think AD is on target. More “1%” (or 0.1%) families means more of them can and will choose private for their children. It’s not just about the quality of the education – it’s also about other advantages (“connections, etc).
Also, from a funding perspective, private schools do not have to deal with special needs/IEPs, so any per-pupil spending comparison should account for these additional costs that are not borne by private schools.
bulls eye
When you see my comment not just private schools. That is not the only path. Skipping high school and going straight to college by choice,my daughter can’t be the only one to have done that during covid.
NPS is going to need to convince parents who sent their kids to private school due to Covid to return to the public school system. That does not seem to be happening, at least from this year’s enrollment numbers. It is a question of how much confidence and trust these parents, who can afford private school, have in NPS. Cutting 70 FTE doesn’t exactly engender a level of confidence in the schools. If I sent my kids to private school because of the way NPS handled Covid, and could continue to afford to send them, I see absolutely no reason why these students would return to the public schools, especially with the same leadership in place.
A special commission as suggested above is a good idea, since none of the existing NPS governance structure has been able to address this question, despite wide consensus that it’s a problem.
This is not just a Covid-19 problem. For instance, 5 years preceding Covid (2014-19) – NPS enrollment went up by <1% (from Newton residents) while private school went up by 12%. Or NPS gained 73 students from Newton while Private Schools gained 299.
Other way to contextualize it:
* If we had same public school participation in 2019 as we had in 1990, we would have 360 more in public (which is 1 entire elementary school)
* If we had same participation as Lexington, in 2019 we would have had 1,479 more students choosing public.
(I m comparing apples-apples)
Therein lies the core thesis – people mostly move to Newton for schools, but are instead choosing private because NPS does not meet their needs.
As an important pillar of our community and for many other social reasons, I believe we must understand the underlying reasons for people's choices and try to fix it.
The percentage of Newton students attending private schools doesn’t matter. To focus on that number is allowing the tail to wag the dog. Let’s just cut to the chase…
The problem is that Newton’s public schools do not provide the same quality of education as private schools. The sad part is that Newton public schools should be kicking private schools ass. NPS has funding that dwarfs any private school’s wildest dreams. The quality of our educators is superb. We have $200M buildings, tennis courts, swimming pools, athletic fields, an absolute wealth of resources.
To quote myself from a different V14 thread, “the only thing Newton lacks is leadership.” We could really use a mayor who understands the potential of our public schools in Newton. Because if we actually got our shit together, Newton could have one of the best public school systems in the country, and put some of these private schools out of business.
The context (ie students choosing private over public) matters. If I did not dig into the data, I would have believe the falling birthrate or housing policy malarkey.
We however agree that this is a problem (technically people voting w their feet is a symptom, not a problem). We also agree we badly need leadership. Hence, the suggestion of a Commission to understand the problem and act upon it.
I could not agree with you more about the quality of our educators!! And they are (rightly) paid better than most private school teachers as well.
I think it is important to remember when considering funding to put in context that NPS is required to educate EVERY child to a specific federal standard. Thus, a meaningful portion of the NPS budget (rightly) goes to educating children who private schools can, and DO, simply not admit and therefore not have to dedicate funds and staff to educating– e.g., children with disabilities, English language learners, etc.
Pulling our child out of Newton public and into private.
Not COVID. Poor education experience. Staggered lunch times, (poor social environment), big classes, limited classes.
My son has had no electives available for the year. Sits in “directed studies” for 6 lessons a week.
How is this a good education?
Not to mention all the garbage like Homework and APs are racist. This is incorrect propoganda.
We need to stop with the bullsh!t and get back to true education roots. Academic rigor, encouragement and support for all kids to outperform their status quo.
Also, xixed level classes are a failure. If i hear Henry Turner tell me one more time why an AP level student can benefit from sharing a class with kids 6-12 month behind them I will lose it. There is no benefit except for the kids who need extra support. They should be given that support through hiring of MORE TEACHERS, not sacrificing the potential of the kids in the higher levels.
All of this work to massage the egos of kids if absolute garbage. Employers do not care how “comfortable” people are. They want high performing people to do the best work for their business. We risk no longer providing our kids with what is needed.
Enough is enough. Focus on academics. And equity doesn’t mean bring down the top to have equal outcomes. It means do whatever it takes to make every kids at every level even better.
@Sumukh – I completely agree with the importance of providing public schools that our citizens overwhelmingly choose to support, for the social reasons you mention.
That said, we should be clear that the dropping enrollment is not causing the current fiscal crisis facing the schools. Note: you have not said this but others have. If those 360 students had stayed in NPS the fiscal situation would be even worse.
That’s not true. It would be wrong to think 5% less kids WOULDNT mean 5% less staff. We don’t need all the elementary schools if there aren’t kids to fill them.
Politicians will clearly reduce a budget in conjunction with a reduction (and forecasted continued reduction) in enrollment.
Also, we don’t focus enough on academics. I’ve said this in another post…
Homework and AP courses are not racist despite what teachers think. Holding back kids to bring up others is not equity. All these bullsh1t policies, in conjunction with a complete failure in managing Covid (we politicized the sh1t out of it and the kids suffered) is the reason. If I could afford to send my kids to private you are damn right I would. Not because I like private, frankly I hate it and am a huge public school proponent. But this is out of hand in this town.
Frank D – I think we agree that fewer students (in general, overall) requires fewer staff. The proposed budget included cuts of 12-14 staff due to shrinking enrollment.
The fiscal crisis is something different, even after making those cuts and accounting for the lower enrollment, the system is still deeply in the red with the current budget and is proposing cutting an additional 50 – 60 staff, not because they aren’t needed but because the money isn’t there to pay – primarily due to the fast rising expenses in transportation, health care and special ed.
If the expenses are rising significantly faster than the money budgeted to the system, something will ultimately have to give. This issue has been slowly building and a few people were ringing the alarm back in 2020 about this very issue.
At this point I only see three ways forward:
1. Increased taxes (i.e. override)
2. Deep cuts in NPS
3. Deep cuts in other city services to shift an even bigger portion of the budget to the schools.
Myself, I’d go for #1 and look for any savings where they can be found
A couple of points @Jerry…
1. If some of the cuts are truly due to declining enrollment (ie. roles that are no longer needed), these should be categorized accodingly and not be associated with budget cuts. Semantics matter.
2. While your #1 seems the lesser of 3 evil, I would need assurances that the current budget is being spent wisely and judiciously before agreeing to an override. Otherwise it’s simply throwing in good money on top of bad.
I think the budget presentation was pretty clear about that. Slide 6 explicitly said:
We need a new superintendent. The from March 2020 until masks came off a few weeks ago (March 2022) the leadership and standing up to the political teachers union has been a joke. Has he been in FL this whole time or just hunkered down in Brookline?
These kids have suffered and people who can afford it gave up. What happened to teachers wanting to help kids develop and learn in life? It all went out the window because of union politics and they should be ashamed. Be honest, everyone like staying home and getting paid the same. Step down F-man, you’ve done enough damage.
During my thirty-five years in the Newton Schools, private school enrollment among Newton’s children always fell somewhere between 12-18%. We teachers did worry about it and wondered if we could do anything to encourage students to stay.
When I arrived in 1981 South had the reputation of focusing too much on its best students and not enough on those more academically challenged. The arrival of ninth graders, and teachers experienced in teaching middle school students, provided a boost to efforts to remedy this flaw. Suddenly, ed plans became more important and the service of special ed teachers more vital.
Further along, the rap on Newton’s high schools became that they focused too much on the strongest and weakest academic students and not enough on the 50% in the middle. In response, teachers at South tried to raise the stakes in the Curriculum 1 classes, assigning more work and expecting more from those students.
Not surprisingly, many came to believe that students were under too much academic pressure and spending too many hours doing homework. It mattered little that sometimes students sat in classes too difficult for them because their parents insisted: how could their children gain admission to elite schools without taking the toughest courses? Nothing teachers and guidance counselors could say could discourage these beliefs.
All along, some families of ample means elected private schools either because of family tradition or because of the belief that the smaller classes and more individualized attention would better meet their children’s needs…and help get them into the best schools. Bear in mind that tuition at many private schools approaches six figures, and teachers’ salaries are substantially lower than those of public schools.
This is all to say that the Pandemic and other factors aside, the balancing act of public education is complex indeed. And I haven’t even addressed those legally fixed expenses that drive up Newton’s school budget. Keeping more of our children in the public schools will grow even harder as McMansion Era Newton becomes the home of even wealthier families. Who else can afford to move here?
That’s my feeling. As Newton becomes more and more of a rich people’s city, fewer families will be sending their kids to NPS. I ran into an acquaintance who is very wealthy and she was talking about the private schools she’s sending her kids to. And for her family, it was about connections, prestige, and an “in” to excellent but costly private schools. They could afford it.
NPS has its issues and I’ve been dismayed at our leadership lately. But ultimately, if most of what we have to offer are McMansions, McCondos, and extremely expensive apartments, we are only courting the wealthy in our city. We need affordable housing and we need it now. And leave some of the small more naturally affordable homes as is. Stop tearing them down for McCondos.
My kid tells me that half the class are taking Russian Math classes outside school
That tells me something is seriously wrong.
I think it is more of a statement about their parents and their hyper competitiveness than it is about the quality of math teaching in NPS. Only in an entitled city like Newton would not getting into Harvard or MIT be considered a failure.
Bruce – my elementary aged son is enrolled in RSM. He isn’t the best athlete, and gets extra help in NPS for some other things, but I wanted him to do an activity he was good at and built confidence. We do his RSM homework together and it’s a rewarding time to spend with him. He’s shown an aptitude too. The odds of him getting into MIT or Harvard are astronomically low and that’s not my expectation. But if that is a parent’s expectation that’s their right, and not for you to judge.
Fair enough, Adam and I’m not judging you personally. However, the high number of kids enrolled in RSM is often used, not by you, as an example that NPS is not providing adequate math instruction. This is not the case.
Bruce – appreciate the follow up. I agree that # students enrolled in academic supplements, inc RSM, is more indicative of socio-economic standing of parents than quality of public instruction.
However the SC – Anping Shen and others – have questioned where NPS’ academic metrics would be (MCAS, AP results, college admittance rate) without private supplements. Those are separate but related points.
No, the math instruction in Newton schools is poor. Truly and unambiguously poor
My kid tells me the NN principal is very busy on social media promoting his book and podcast titled “Change the narrative.” If he resigns to go on book tour wonder who takes over? Fleishman maybe lol.
We are looking forward to leaving NPS. My last kid will be a junior in Sept and he has been accepted to three private schools with one pending. In order to play college football he needs to get out. Good luck to those who stay.
MMQC, “more naturally affordable” homes no longer exist here… there are just homes for the “wealthy” and those for the “super wealthy.” The latter group increasingly sends its kids to private school, for all the reasons mentioned above. The COVID-related problems accelerated the trend. I know several examples.
I think many of us who have been around a while remember with pride when NPS had truly excellent public schools. Based on MCAS scores and other private rankings one can find perusing online, it seems our public schools are still performing pretty well, just not at an elite level.
Agree with most of your comment. I don’t think our district is failing or even struggling all that much.
RE housing – my house is very small and I doubt we’d get more than $650,000. Which would be a great deal for a middle class family who didn’t need a lot of space. So I think these homes could exist if we let them.
This is spot-on. Most of my local acquaintances who are very wealthy have their kids in private schools, but not because they think NPS isn’t a good school system or provides a sub-adequate education. In fact most of them express admiration for the public schools here. It’s more about having a family history of attending private, connections, prestige, and specific resources like access to college admissions coaching and — most vitally — a perception (correct or not) that an elite private school places their child in a pipeline to an elite college. These are characteristics of the uber-wealthy that make up more and more of the demographic here.
A side point to be sure, but I was struck by the fact that the NPS cuts were announced on the same day the annual Newton census form arrived in the mail. Several weeks earlier, when I began to wonder if our form had got lost, I asked our city councilor when the census forms were coming out this year. She didn’t know what I was talking about. If the city makes major policy decisions without reference to the latest city census data, and the census has so little effect on City Council actions that at least one councilor can claim never to have heard of it, what purpose does it serve? Where is the city getting its demographic data?
Just an observation I’ve made with 2 kids at NPS. Some of my daughters friends left NPS to private schools during the covid lockdown. Now that they are at private schools, they like it better and want to stay. Now this is where the money comes in, I don’t think in the 70’s and 80’s Newton Corner I’m from, nearly as many families would have had the choice to go to a private during the hybrid schooling. Most people cut their own grass and nannies and house keepers were not common. Many more couples today have the private school option and the pandemic may have given the already existing trend a shot in the arm.
I’d like to see a study on college acceptance rates for Newton kids relative to others around the country. Lots of rejections that are surprising me. But all anecdotal.
What is not anecdotal is that we don’t permit many AP classes that other school districts permit at different grade levels. We apparently have eliminated honors math in middle school. These make it so families wonder how their kids strengths could be better identified and built upon and set them up better for hyper competitive college acceptance hurdles.
We moved here in part since we thought the schools were awesome. We no longer feel that way. I believe the shine has worn off as those in charge embrace pulling people toward average vs creating and embracing opportunity for the exceptional to excel. Those parents with means are doing something about it. They are trying to do best for their kids. Are they bad for doing so?
I have to agree with Keith. It is hard for our students to compete for college admission due to the way things are set up. Fleishman and Principal Stras touched on acceptances to Harvard during the NS Zoom Parent Coffee recently. Frankly I could care less about that. There are a whole level of schools that aren’t Harvard that are competitive that our students want to get into. It is all about finding the right fit. Our children need to have things that allow colleges to understand who they are and to have things that distinguish who they are. There is no National Honor Society. There is no Honor Roll or Class Rank. There is limited to no acknowledgement of individual success compared to other high schools. I don’t feel that the reputation of rigor at Newton South is going to carry them much longer. One of my children has a clear direction of where she wants to go in her life. She is doing stuff outside of school to find out more about and get exposure to her desired field. She is doing her best to set herself up for the path she wants to follow and has already identified schools of interest. She is an excellent student but I am very worried that due to no fault of her own she will not get into one of the schools that she feels are the best fit. This drive comes all from her. I have one child in private but based on her self sufficiency I am hoping I do not regret riding it out with public school for this child.
I served on the School Committee for 14 years and never saw percentages of kids going to private school as low as some have said. For the past 20 years, the percentages have been high teens to low 20s. The data can be found in the Enrollment Analysis Report on the School Committee website.
Hi Susan. Thanks for the information. the data is in the below link. As you said, we are the lowest we have been in >30 years, and in fact we are the 2nd lowest in the state for districts with more than 500 kids (which is almost any real town) behind Wellesley. That is disturbing. We are supposed to be a top school statewide, yet we cant keep our kids in NPS?
We need to do more to ensure people see the value in NPS and want to choose that route for their children. Reducing budgets, teachers and support staff helps no one. Declining enrollment is a majority of the cause despite what some in the administration say. If you have 10% fewer kids, you get 10% fewer staff/classrooms/etc. The administration needs to show it cares about academic excellence first and foremost. If we do that, we have a shot.
https://profiles.doe.mass.edu/statereport/schoolattendingchildren.aspx
Thanks, Susie, and thanks for your years of service!
And right back at you, Bob! I know first hand what a wonderful teacher you were.
As a parent of a current NPS child, I can tell you that my daughter (class of 2024) had a huge amount of peers exit for private school due the pandemic, and they are NOT coming back. They are happier at private school especially now. The last two years have been awful in general.
Also, as a public school parents, I can tell you KIDS across the board need more help in academics and therapeutics. These kids have suffered all around. While a kid can be amazing in math, they could be struggling in reading. And for all these kids they need more time with adults TRAINED in the subject. They don’t need a baby sitter or a volunteer. They need a specialized math coach or reading recovery teacher, especially in the younger grades. MORE adult time with adults who are knowledgeable. Not a general aide in the building.
And the kids need more practice in social skills. Whether it is reading the room, reading the faces of their peers, or being able to talk face to face. Our kids need more help from more adults.
The elephant in the room is the SPED budget. That has grown, and must be funded. But am I pitting my general ed student against my IEP student? Same house. They both have needs. One must be legally met. The general ed student (who does need some extra help due to learning at home wasn’t her learning style, but hasn’t needed an IEP) has needs also.
I know that a small amount of households actually use NPS any given year, but if we as a community allow these cuts, and don’t spend on NPS, then the desirability of Newton isn’t the same.
I have purchased COSTCO sized boxes of kleenex for teachers over the last few years. I know there is no budget for kleenex. There is nothing left to cut. I need Mayor Fuller to make the right tough choice. Raise taxes. Because a general override will help with the future senior center, the future Gath pool, the future of NPS.
NPS needs specific types of teachers and therapists. Cutting the budget won’t allow our students enough time with teachers and therapists.
An override for school operating expenses would be a damn tough sell here, whether one thinks it good policy or not.
We still have to fund the senior center, the pool, etc.
Yea, no way you get me to vote to fund the senior center at the expense of schools. fund the schools, then try an override for the senior center. Im a hard NO vote for anything this government wants if they refuse to put our children’s needs first.
I agree with what NewtonMom that kids need more support right now. They have suffered the last two years. I would rather the kids have more trained personnel supporting them than technology. They need that right now.
In reading the budget presentation it mention significantly cutting literacy and math intervention for the elementary kids. It is not clear to me if this is due to the enrollment decrease. I’m guessing it is not otherwise I think it would be phrased as a corresponding decrease in these services but I could be wrong. If it is the latter, this seems to be an unwise decision. Interventions in reading and math are key in getting kids on track. These services are critical to getting kids off to a good start on learning. If theses struggles are not addressed there are behavioral and self esteem issues that arise. Wouldn’t reducing these efforts lead to more services needed later? Also if the lack of support bleeds into behavioral issues then other kids also feel the impact.
I’m also wondering if they have done any analysis on the programs they are looking to implement. Obviously they need to legally meet a students needs or cover an outplacement which is expensive but it would be interesting to hear what types of programs they are looking to implement and if there was a forecast on how many kids these programs would benefit along with what that saves the district. Just to understand the magnitude.
@NewtonMom it stinks to have the needs of both your children being pitted against each other. Every student should be able to get what they need.
There is an analysis of NPS literacy and math programs on DESE’s website. It is called the CURATE project. This is especially important because there are new and updated laws that require Newton to use a research based, data driven literacy program for any student who is on a 504 plan or an IEP. There is a national movement for the “right to read”, for students who are not on IEPS as reading rates have dropped – although I do not have the source RN. I do not know how they can cut academic staff when the law is going to require expanding the departments. https://www.doe.mass.edu/instruction/curate/resources.html
https://www.edreports.org/reports
Interesting comments….I agree we need a new senior center, but does NewCal need to be the Taj Mahal of senior centers as Mayor Fuller would like it to be? It’s as if she’s aiming to have it named after herself. A scaled down senior center would allow more funding to divert to NPS.
Matt -The senior center has been scaled back. The original NewCAL was supposed to be a multi-generational community center on heavily used parkland. The city kept the name, but it’s now a designated senior center on a small lot. As time goes on, I suspect people will again refer to it as the senior center.
I feel like Fuller keeps attempting some big projects that read to me like vanity projects. There’s NewCAL (which has thankfully been scaled down), then when she wanted to move the police headquarters (which I think is now off the table??), and then some of the suggestions for Gath. I think she wants our community amenities to be like Weston’s. This isn’t to say that these places don’t need improvements. They do. But I’m wary of their direction and motivation.
“Vanity projects” would be pointless or unneeded projects that look good.
I think all three things you mentioned – senior center, Gath pool, and police hq are city facilities that most observers would agree are in need of replacement or major updating, as you suggested.
I’ve had reservations about some details, but I wouldn’t criticize the mayor for trying to take those projects on. That’s a big part of the job – figuring out what needs fixing and fixing it.
The most successful overrides in Newton have provided funds for a wide swathe of community services and capital expenditures.
If you want to know why Newton isn’t “keeping up” with comparable communities, look at their history of overrides. We don’t do overrides, so we don’t have the same level of funding that these communities have:
https://www.needhamma.gov/DocumentCenter/View/875/OVERRIDE_ELECTION_RESULTS?bidId=
https://www.townhall.westwood.ma.us/Home/ShowDocument?id=21166 (page 26 and 27)
https://www.belmont-ma.gov/sites/g/files/vyhlif6831/f/uploads/results_-_overrides_and_debt_exclusion_votes_in_belmont_1.pdf
https://www.lexingtonma.gov/sites/g/files/vyhlif7101/f/uploads/election_history-referendum_votes_v4-1.pdf
https://wellesleyma.gov/271/Override-History
https://www.weston.org/DocumentCenter/View/615/Weston-Override-History-PDF?bidId= (Debt exclusion I think)
Jane – I think the mayor will have a hard time selling an override unless accompanied by a clear acknowledgement of decline, reasons for it, and a clear action plan.
We need the Blue Ribbon Commission ASAP.
An override with a complete overhaul of NPS leadership would actually be an easy sell
Spot on. We have to fix the issue of a declining quality of education. Denying that we are declining is only perpetuating the problem. “The first step to fixing your problem is admitting you have one.”
It’s time Newton starts to focus on academic excellence. We have quality teachers and are set up for success, we just cant afford to think current outcomes are acceptable and that cutting staff will be beneficial.
Jane has a point. Historically, the Newton electorate has largely been against overrides. The last override attempt was a bruising battle and I imagine the next one will not be any different. For those who feel NPS is failing, would you support an override to increase the school systems’ budget?
Also, I don’t think a blue ribbon commission is practical. First, the process would probably take a year between identifying members, holding hearings, gathering information, and producing recommendations. Second, would a commission have any teeth? It is the School Committee’s responsibility to steward NPS. Given that we have significant turnover on the SC, perhaps it is time for these newly elected members to step up and push for change. That is, after all, why most, if not all, of the new members were elected.
I do not support an override with NPS under its current leadership. If proven that our focus will be ONLY on academics and none of the peripheral bullsh!t, then yes, I would support it.
I have the same read on the electorade. No way will they support an override unless the current superintendent is gone. Nobody other than the old guard school committee trusts him.
Let’s look at this proposition. Say you could get rid of the superintendent immediately or the end of this school year (I don’t know how much notice the SC actually needs to give him). You can’t let him go for cause so you and all Newton taxpayers will be obligated to pick up his salary and whatever else may have been negotiated. That amount is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
A search for a new superintendent is lengthy and that person most likely would not start until the beginning of the 2023-2024 school year. Then, let’s assume that the new superintendent will implement the changes for which you are advocating. Those are changes that wouldn’t happen overnight.
2024 is also an election year. It is doubtful any mayoral candidate is going to run and be elected on a platform that they will raise taxes. Maybe they would do it afterwards which would then lead in to 2025 or 2026. By then, your kids may be out of the system and you’ll be using that shiny new Senior Center that is about to be completed.
Some of us have >10 years left in NPS.
Complacency is how we got here. Positive action is how we get out. Raising taxes to temporarily fix a problem vs actually fixing the problem is poor strategy.
Good question. It is hard to support an override when mismanagement of funds, poor covid policies, and an acceptance of declining enrollment are part of the environment. We have some structural issues and also a major issue of declining academic excellence. If we dont fix those, an override doesn’t work long term. As it stands, I would not support it.
If the city can show a new focus on academics and a desire to make NPS the best it can be, then sure I can support it. But, that said, If we continue to push other priorities like the senior center or Webster Woods, I have a hard time. Perhaps we should sell Webster Woods back to BC. I’m sure that 15.2 million dollars would help the budget right now. Would we rather ~70 teacher/staff jobs for the benefit of 13,000 students or some woods that BC said they would preserve anyway. Personally, Id rather have the extra teachers and staff.
I was never in favor of Webster Woods since it was taken by eminent domain. That being said, Webster Woods used CPA funds so its purchase did not have any impact on school funding.
Pitting one constituency against the other does no good. Everyone has their priorities. If you have kids in the schools, of course you want them to have the best. If you don’t have kids in the school system maybe your priorities are different. If I’m a senior citizen, maybe the senior center is important to me and I think plenty of funding is already going to the school system. Its complicated to say the least.
For those who would support an override only if NPS cleans house, what does that look like. The superintendent has two years left on his contract. Would you buy him out and search for a new one? Would you support an override only if they offer more AP classes or no longer have mixed levels in some classes. Lots of questions…
Bruce C’s comments and Jane Frantz’s comments above fit together nicely and I agree with them both.
If you would like to see additional funding for the schools as part of an effort to improve the school system and prevent staff layoffs then ultimately an override will be required.
Everyone votes on an override, not just parents of school children. For those without children in NPS, an override vote asks them to willingly choose to give additional amount of their hard earned money in taxes, for the greater good, and the benefit of those with kids in the school system.
That will never happen if that all begins with the school advocates throwing rocks at all the other voting constituencies and their priorities. That’s a formula for voter gridlock and more problems for NPS down the road.
An override is not the only way. you have 100 dollars. You allocate 70 to schools. 30 to other things. or, you allocate 75 to schools and 25 to other things.
That is the other way.
An override is a way for governments to make up for their mistakes. And boy are there some bad ones.
Sorry Jerry, the solution to all the world’s problems isn’t always raising taxes. Sometimes you need to clean up the bullsh!t. This time, Id be in favor of both higher taxes AND cleaning up our mess. Otherwise, I’m a no and will lobby hard for others to be a no also.
It’s like you are advocating for using a bandaid to fix a gash that requires stitches. Perhaps you slow the bleeding, but you never heal the wound.
Bruce C, I agree putting one group against another isn’t a great strategy. But isn’t that what is happening? We are firing ~70 NPS staff, yet pushing forward with the senior center. No, one doesn’t directly impact the other, but if we put off the senior center for a few years, couldn’t the multi-millions earmarked for that be used to keep staffing in tact?
At some point you have to make a choice. I choose whatever gives my kids the best education.
How about this conspiracy.
To increase the residential tax base and help pay off the billion $ accumulated tax bill, the city encourages the demolition of smaller low tax paying homes to allow, ( by generous zoning regulations like a larger FAR, smaller setback dimensions greater lot coverage, elimination of single family zoning etc ), a higher tax paying structure to be built.
This encourages more wealthy owners into the city,.. (after all Newton is closer to Bostons city center than the outer suburbs ), who are more ambitious for their kids education and prefer private schooling, ( Newtons schools are too big and impersonal ), could care less about lower class mixed living, ( all their new friends/ neighbors are fellow professionals ), and are planning on living here only until retirement when they can move to Florida.
The city gets a tax boost and lowers the costs of the Board of Education.
How is this for a conspiracy theory? Mayor Magoo is a crypto-Republican so she’s obsessed with keeping taxes low and doesn’t care about public education.
To further that, we should revolt and deny funding for the Senior Center unless they stop messing with the quality of our schools. Step one, stop cutting teachers. Step 2, stop with the Bullsh!t policies.
Then, and only then, will we fund your stupid senior center. When in history has a city put the needs of the elderly ahead of the needs of the future generations…hint, NEVER! We kept schools closed because…i dunno, old people were afraid that children getting an education would kill them or something? We have this tendency to cater to the desires of one contingent at the detriment of another in this town. This needs to stop.
Frank D – Yes, that’s one of the options I listed …
We have been slowly doing that for a while now, with year by tear the school budget taking a larger and larger percentage of the whole city budget. That can’t go on forever. Even this year, with the proposed cuts, I believe the NPS budget has still grown faster than the rest of the city budget.
Whether or not we replace the superintendent or members of the school committee, that problem won’t go away so long as the school dept. expenses are growing faster than the rest of the budget – i.e. transportation, SPED, and health insurance.
These are Newton’s three realities when it comes to overrides:
1. Other comparable communities have overrides on a regular basis to maintain services and infrastructure and to fund capital projects. Please read the information on the links that I provided. If you then still think we don’t need an override to provide for the very same services and capital projects their overrides funded, don’t complain about what Lexington and Needham have that we don’t have. Their overrides prevent the structural deficit that we are now facing.
2. The two successful overrides elections in Newton provided funds for a wide swathe of community services and capital expenditures – senior services, schools, roads/sidewalks, police/fire equipment and personnel, etc. – something for everyone. A broad-based override package has been successful in the only two override elections we’ve passed in 42 years.
3. An override that benefits 20% of the population at the exclusion of the other 80% doesn’t have a chance of passing. Not. A. Chance.
4. Senior citizens vote in override elections in droves. Parents of NPS students – not so much. If you want to see an override go down in flames, advocate for postponing the rebuilding of the new senior center. An override that denies a desperately needed new facility to Newton seniors who supported and advocated for NPS schools for decades will be a complete and total disaster.
Someone commented elsewhere about the spending per student in Newton vis a vis peer districts. Newton is at the high water mark, above $20,000 per student, well above most peer districts. This calculation is consistent with my own research. Our outcomes are at the bottom of our peer districts. Our NPS spending is generous, not lacking. We need to dive deeply into why our outcomes are poor.
I see various posts regarding private schools and wealth of Newton families. I believe this line of reasoning deserves a deeper dive. There are three groups of private-school senders: 1) social/generational/business-contact senders. 2) parochial senders; 3) public school parents who left NPS. The first group, in my opinion, is not reachable. A portion of the second group could be reached if our schools were less ideological. The third group should be the target to attend/return. Let’s consider the cost of a “good” private school (Milton, BBN, etc..). $55-$60K/year/child at the high school level. This is marginal money, i.e. the last dollar earned goes to this spend because it is discretionary. Using a marginal tax rate of 40%, earnings per year, per child required for this = $100,000. Multiply this by two children and four years of high school, almost $1M in earnings. To say people are so rich in Newton that they don’t care about having to dedicate $1M in earnings to educate two children in private high school is, to me, a questionable narrative. I believe many of these parents would prefer to use NPS.
So to answer Sumak’s question, yes, I do think it matters very much that enrollment numbers are down. For parents to take on such a catastrophically high cost at rates not previously seen means that something is wrong indeed. And it can be fixed.
People note that we can buy the Superintendent out of his contract. Or keep paying him while also paying someone new. A third option is to provide management of the executive so his deliverable is excellence in education. CEOs are managed by the board of directors. That is a core function. The SC cheerleads for the superintendent and could instead provide concrete metrics for a success agenda. For example: increase MCAS scores, AP offerings, rankings vis a vis peer districts, college placements, etc.. While this list does not touch on special ed, it does touch on the needs, in my opinion, of the parents at the margin who could be attracted/re-attracted to NPS.
Wow! I looked at one outcome, and other pieces such as finances, spend/child etc will be needed to complete the mosaic.
Well said, Valerie!
Just to clarify the per student spending, the Department of Elementary and Secondary Education allows you to look this up for any district in the state. The most recent numbers provided are for 2020.
Newton: $20,785.69
Weston: $27,039.26
Brookline: $21,255.57
Wayland: $19,192.90
Wellesley: $21,516.36
Needham: $19,192.90
Watertown: $22,879.98
Concord: $21,498.31
Concord / Carlisle: $23,335.02
No, the math instruction in Newton schools is poor. Truly and unambiguously poor
Please show us the concrete evidence that math instruction in NPS is unambiguously poor.
MCAS high school math scores by income. 2% of white and Asian 10th graders are in the lowest performing group, 16% of low income students are. There is most likely some overlap between race and income (ie some low-income kids are white and Asian).
Students with disabilities had higher pass rates in the 2021 high school math MCAS than low income kids.
Is our spending per student truly high relative to excellent outcome school districts? If so, it seems like throwing money at the problem is a ‘solution’ that has been tried and tried again. Perhaps a change of approach is needed.
Valerie – good post.
Building on Valerie Pontiff, it is important for you, Sumukh, and your colleagues to also understand the anticipated benefits informing the decision parents make when choosing whether and when to remove one of their children from NPS. In effect “if we can afford it and are willing to go that way, what are we going to get for our trouble and is that the only or best way to get it?”. Among the many answers, a very few will determine the choice the head(s) of a particular household will make at a particular point in time.
Of course, not every household can entertain the question. But what the customers you serve — what parents — need in order to be satisfied by NPS’s efforts might be less different among those economically captured into only using public schools than among those with the means to choose otherwise.
In our household, we decided on an expectation of “control, accountability, and responsiveness”. For us, “we, as parents, know best” and “we are dedicated to doing the best for each child’s needs, above all other priorities” were how we navigated those years. In each case, we got what we paid for. And it made a significant difference in the quality of each of our children’s education. We had learned by experience here that NPS was not ever going to be responsive to our customers needs in a timeframe relevant to each of our children’s needs in the moment.
Did we know better than institutional NPS, public school NPS, or NPS teacher? Yes, we thought so at the time. And Yes, yes we did. And Yes, we have the results to prove it.
Our objectives were the ones that appear far too infrequently in any discussion of NPS and what to do about it. We didn’t care at all about averages, cohorts, social agenda, or the like; we only cared about maximizing the development of capabilities by the child in each interval of time. Sometimes that was academics, sometimes, social skills, sometimes craft/vocational skills (yes, even among college-tracked kids). We continuously evaluated NPS on the degree to which it was the best way to get, for each child, what each needed in each emerging window of time.
Were NPS management to adjust to running itself to individualize, instead of institutionalize, its educational product, our world would be a better place and the drive toward considering private schools would, by comparison, be reduced. That would be a embrace of the massive heterogeneity among student instead of a purpose of homogenizing the raw input materials into MCAS or ideology-determined statistics means and medians.
Fact: young women under-perform young men in Mathematics despite out-performing them up to middle school. Fix it.
Fact: young men under-perform young women in English, language and arts despite there being no demonstrable difference up to middle school. Fix it.
Well-preparing the young to be productive members of tomorrow’s society requires an intentional and purposeful view of what that future world will require. Girls who cannot do Math and boys who cannot converse in whole sentences is no longer adequate, if ever it was.
A lack of money isn’t the problem. A lack of responsiveness to mission is. Among teachers are those individuals who “get it” and who are professionally able and dedicated to parents’ purposes. And those efforts could be enhanced and built upon were an improvement management regimen to step forward.
We should just ask the members of the previous school committee and the current one why they sent their kids to private school over NPS. The software industry has a saying. You need to eat your own dog food. If the dog food is that bad, they would know what’s wrong with it.
Generalities don’t work for everyone. Each parent has a different reason and gets a different result when sending their child to a private school. The focus needs to be on making the public schools the best that they can be for as many students as it can. Worrying about those that attend elsewhere is a waste of time since there are a myriad of reasons. My kids are long out of the school system but I support a possible override unconditionally. If the SC doesn’t change leadership when I think they should I will vote against them
Jackson Joe – So true. Parenting is the hardest job in the world.
As a 5th grade teacher, I had long and hard conversations with parents whose children weren’t thriving in their current setting. I never questioned a parent’s decision, but I do remember how difficult those conversations were because the parents and I were on the same page, trying to come up with the “right” solution for their child’s unknown future. Most kids stayed in NPS and thrived in either MS or HS, and others went to a private school. I wished all of them well.
I also remember one of my sons floundering badly in 9th grade at NN, and having those same tough conversations with his teachers and guidance counselor for a full year. They assured me that he’d be fine and in the end, they were right.
My kids are many years beyond NPS and I’m ending my days as a very part-time NPS teacher in June, but I’d support an override unconditionally as well.
Long-ago graduate of NPS. Agree w/Jackson Joe. The meritocratic/Keeping Up With the Joneses arguments, while understandable, ultimately are unhelpful. Newton has always been different demographically compared to Wellesley, Weston, Concord, Dover and the like, even today. And yes, we are override-resistant (one attempt failed when I was a junior at North). Certainly, I cannot fault parents with means to put their kids in private school, or seeking alternatives. However, this isn’t a new phenomenon, and they must have different reasons for doing so. But even if we did pass an override, we won’t become Wellesley or Weston. We’re just different. Of course, the schools can always do better, and I hope the folks on this board who are relitigating last November’s election will put as much effort into next year’s election. A campaign reminding people how insufficient we are compared to our neighbors is likely to backfire.
@FWG, this time is different. From 1990-2019, 29 years, we a eraged 81% of students in public school. Now we are at 76%. 5% of 13000 kids is 650 kids. In fact only 1 town is worse than us, Wellesley. That is a massive problem. Our specific elementary school was 465 before the pandemic and now 372. This is a clear failure in both covid policy but also focus.
The biggest problem is the lack of attention on the quality of education. We focus too much on the other and seem to be forgetting the core goal of a school, to educate the basics: math, science, language, history, etc.
We have the best teachers. We have devoted parents. We have a city with enough resources to make it work. We just need the Mayor and CC to allocate the money and we need the Superintendent and SC to promote a high quality education. Forget the peripheral stuff, its time to get back to our roots before its too late!
Pat, I didn’t mean to argue that things are A/OK with NPS. Clearly they aren’t, and not just in Newton. It’s been a terrible two years for everyone. But the arguments made here didn’t resonate (or resonate enough) last year. Maybe 2023 will be different?
Keep in mind for parents new to NPS the past few years, literally all we’ve ever heard from the NTA leadership is how awful Newton is and how incompetent the NPS administration is. Eventually people assume there’s some truth to it.
At some point you would think the teachers would wake up and realize the taxpayers are tired of the crying. I’ll give the NTA some credit…they love to sing and dance about masks, budget cuts, ventilation, etc.
Ken would love to see the NTA leadership put the same advocacy energy put into restoring academic excellence. I keep writing NTA leadership because individual educators of course want all their kids to excel. Fully acknowledge the district and not NTA sets curriculum and classroom policies, but if teachers were to embrace this message I suspect they’d find a lot of parent support.
It’s not within the purview of the NTA to set the mission or policies of the school system. That is the role of the admin and/or school committee. Allocation of funds is the responsibility of the mayor.
NTA = Newton teachers and staff. Teachers and staff embrace the concept of academic excellence in their work each day. To say otherwise is simply wrong, Adam.
Then why are teachers preaching that Homework is racist? Why are teachers advocating for mixed level classes? Why do we offer fewer AP courses than our peers/neighbors? Why are our school rankings in a constant decline over the past 5 years? Should I keep going?
Homework is not racist.
Mixed level classes achieve 1 goal, holding back the kids who are more advanced.
AP classes help prepare kids for college. College helps them get a job. Just because some dont choose college as a path, which is completely respectable, doenst mean we have to reduce our offerings for everyone else.
Equity does not mean that we bring all kids to the middle. It means push all kids to their top. Please stop the song and dance about the NTA being a victim. Perhaps if the NTA didnt push the 6 foot rule and all the other bullsh!t COVD rules then enrollment wouldn’t have declined as much. And yes, it was largely a result of COVID policy being the last straw. I think someone mentioned we were steady in % for like 20 years and then serious drop once covid hit.
One teacher even went on FB to tell kids who were protesting to reopen schools to “Fck Right Off”. Yes, NTA member and educator.
You made this problem worse and now, against my wishes, the consequences are job cuts. To be clear I do not want cuts. I want more teachers at higher salary. Our teachers deserve it. But as others here have said, until you fix the quality of education, people are going to keep ditching NPS.
Frank D – Where and when did teachers “preach that homework is racist”?
By eliminating or limiting homework on the basis of equity. This has come up early and often. The reasons behind reducing/removing homework? racism and unequal access to, i dunno, something outside of school.
Its a stupid argument. Not EVERYTHING is racist like many in NPS and Newton think. Another what is racist is limited to what suits a person’s (not to be named) consulting career and book deals. We have let people into our system that are taking advantage of their positions and degrading the quality of education. Very sad.
No – mixed level classes achieve 2 goals, they also make kids who take longer to grasp a concept feel stupid.
Not to speak for Frank but there was a presentation done by Acting Principal Aaronson at South regarding “Out of Class Work” aka homework which many people concluded that they felt the Administration felt homework was racist.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Xmi0vBVXGH8ZD7F6CwtV2AFaVfGS7RO0TYv2fgOj8sw/edit#slide=id.p
This is where the issue arose.
Reality #3:
Asking students to do work outside of class time risks
creating inequities, as some students have more time
than others to devote to academic work. Student
athletes, students with family responsibilities, and
students who need help organizing themselves are just
some of the groups who find work outside the school
day challenging. Furthering inequities conflicts with our
school and district commitment to active antiracism.
Personally I was shocked by the statement as I feel we should be working to help everyone maximize their potential not concluding that they are not capable.
Here’s a better link to the full document
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rNuWzSjHTcIGHLYi6DJ9JAQGlhlUJRq3/view?usp=sharing
One more time …here is the link to the correct document. The link in the above post is another document related to Covid grading etc.
The link below should be to the Outside of Classroom Work presentation done at NS by Interim Principal Aaronson in 2002
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Dwpq5NxzEN0JNYCrpq7V3n1qXgRQHe2A/view?usp=sharing
The district may want to think about retiring use of the words equity/equitable. They’ve become toxic to many, and devoid of their original good intent. Equity was used by some last year as a reason to KEEP SCHOOLS CLOSED, the most inequitable thing public education has done maybe since segregation.
There probably is room for a thoughtful analysis and evolution of homework policies to account for technology, ensure homework purposeful, and as widely tailored to a child’s circumstances as feasible. By slapping the equity label on the presentation linked above, it changes it to a political, ideological document.
I see both points of view but comparing Covid school policy to segregation is plain stupid. Both sides need to listen to each others points to come up with a solution that fits the needs of hopefully every student and not the needs of the parents
Jane – I did not say otherwise, I said the opposite, and besides that our respective comments are not in conflict. Thanks for reply and engagement.
“One teacher even went on FB to tell kids who were protesting to reopen schools to “Fck Right Off”. Yes, NTA member and educator.” NTA President Zilles gets paid to defund people like this. Wonder who the dumb teacher was that told the kids to F off. I can only imagine it’s a mask wearing lefty.
I have two high schoolers one in public and one in private. I am a product of public education and have believed in public education. I think there are many people like myself who would have never previously considered private school.
Covid opened the door however I think for those paying attention, we realized the problem goes even deeper with the decision making that occurs. and a lack of willingness to acknowledge mistakes. I have not seen an analytical approach applied to plans, both in their creation and the evaluation of their effectiveness. If you do not acknowledge the negatives or roadblocks in a plan (orig return to learn plan, later end time), how do you address those challenges to achieve a better outcome? At the High School level many changes were made this year (new schedule with longer blocks and WIN Blocks, and later end time. A poorly constructed survey went out to the kids so far that is it. Any one of these changes should have warranted a significant ongoing evaluation of effectiveness. You may not change what is implemented but you should be working to make it better which requires reflection.
At an open house for my one child’s private school they touched on two things that really resonated with me:
*a change in schedule is a major change and the makes the evaluation of that change a top priority (would be number 1 if not in covid times)
*Rigor and social emotional well being go together. I feel in NPS the belief is there is a need to remove rigor in order to achieve social emotional well being. Shouldn’t our kids be supported in dealing with challenges rather than having those challenges removed.
I fault the Administration not the Teachers in this scenario. The Teachers have to deal with the situations that the Administration creates. I think part of the issue is not taking into account the real life outcomes of plans/ideas which is where the Teachers and Parent could provide insight.
NH Mom the problem is that one size doesn’t fit all. Add in the covid equation and how it has set back many but not all students and then you have the overreactions of some parents who just want to blame everyone else except themselves for anything negative in their life and you have an overwhelming problem during unprecedented times.
The private schools are relieved of dealing with the SPED students and can enact rules to expel any parent or child who steps out of line. NPS has no such luck.
I’m not saying that mistakes haven’t been made and more won’t be made in the future but I think you should cut the whole school system some slack. Most of these front line workers gave it their best efforts
Jackson Joe, please read NewtonMom again.
No one is blaming “front line workers.” Everyone knows that Covid was tough and is willing to give the administration some slack. The problem is that what NPS delivered was much worse than almost ever other school district in the area. These districts also have SPED programs, so that is not an excuse.
Please, don’t blame parents. It is not overreacting to opine on failures that impacted 10,000 students. This is big deal.
Wow! Talk about gaslighting!
What part of NH mom’s experience is unreasonable? Did you follow the school schedule change? SC and NPS admin drew a red line at 8:30 am start ( Ibelieve) and then did it any way.
Maybe you were not following the entire conversation during C19, but the two famous phrases were “It is hard” and “for the sake of equity”. They never defined equity and used that phrase as a justification for many things.
While my children are in public schools, many of us share the same experience and frustration of MH mom.
Jeffrey maybe I wasn’t clear. I respect NH Mom’s opinion but I do think the administrators should be cut a little slack. I don’t respect some of the earlier posts and those were the ones that I referring to when I wrote “overreactions of some parents who just want to blame everyone else except themselves for anything negative in their life”
That comment was NOT INTENDED towards NH Mom
The administration is to blame for the stupid, irrational, politicized covid response and policies.
If i could have sent my kids I would have. I cant afford to send 2 kids, 1 MS and 1 Elem, to private school,
I didnt creat the bullsh!t policies, they did.
This enrollment decline is on them.
Not parents.
A push for false equity, a depredation of academic standards, and an overly politicized/irrational covid policy and its 100% their fault.
If i could have sent my kids to NPS full time I would have, I meant,
Where are the defenders of the Status Quo? Their silence is deafening.
I agree with Lucia regarding mixed level classes. One of my friends mentioned that her kids liked them because it made them feel smarter. It does not breed robust discussions in the classroom from my child’s experiences. I feel for those kids who are put in a position where they start to feel less of themselves and conclude that they are dumb. Before there was talk about differentiation in learning. We should be meeting kids where they are at and help them achieve their potential so they can feel successful and engaged. Not lumping them in with others who are at a different level.
Interesting when they did the High School Update for the School Committee one of the members I believe Chris Brezski asked in what situtaions they choose to do multi-level class. I don’t believe he got an answer which I believe is due to the fact there isn’t really a clear cut explanation of when these types of classes are best used. Ideally if there are benefits than there should be some type of matrix on when theses classes are beneficial. There were also conflicting statements during the meeting saying we’ve been doing them for a long time but then when asked a question like the one above they said they were new so they didn’t really have an answer for the question.
I talked with a Teacher during conferences and asked a bit about the multilevel classes. They said my child’s section had two levels while the Teacher’s other section had 3 levels.They told me how difficult it was to appropriately teach to the different levels. They had chosen to cover the higher level material for all. They had some spec ed in their background and expressed a concern for the kids that struggle. They seemed to be putting in an incredible amount of work to try to make it work for all of their students. I commend them for their efforts! In talking with friends in other districts, they said that the multi level classes they have are used if there isn’t enough enrollment to have two separate classes and the class otherwise would not be offered if they weren’t combined. It was not a desired outcome but sometimes the only way to offer a particular level of class.
My concern with the cuts being proposed to Teachers is that this will lead to more multi-level classes. Their goals are to continue to offer a wide breadth of classes but they won’t have the manpower to do so. They will instead have multi level classes and will tout that they are still offering AP classes but they won’t be the same. AP class are about covering a lot of material to prepare effectively for the exam. Honors classes should be going into more depth on subjects. I don’t want my child having to teach themselves content. AP & Honors shouldn’t be about independently teaching yourself. Honor also shouldn’t be more homework and more questions on an exam (based on material you taught yourself)
When my son was at South six years ago, there was a popular track that students could choose which was the global track. They still had the AP, Honors, ACP, and CP levels, but the classes within that program followed a curriculum that focused on global issues. Several of those classes had different levels taught within the same class. My son was in the Honors level and he felt that this experience was helpful since sometimes the honors students might help the ACP kids, thus reinforcing their own learning.
When junior year came around, we had asked whether he enrolling in the global US history class would allow him to take the AP test. Both classes taught US history but the Global history class didn’t teach to the test. Kids in the global honors US history had to take it upon themselves to study for the test. He did fine with taking the initiative to study for the test. If a child is in honors or AP, the extra work shouldn’t be an issue. With AP classes, they are very much structured toward taking and succeeding on the test. While they are learning the material, I am not sure how much they are learning to think in a way that they might do if the class was categorized as Honors rather than AP. The global program was quite popular pre-covid with waiting lists, though I don’t think it exists anymore.
Both of my kids enrolled in Global. One is grown and flown. The other is in it now, and I have to say it is really a dynamic class, and the teachers are seasoned, and have been teaching multi level classes for years. Seamless. Especially if a kid wants to try a higher level, it is easier to drop a level if it isn’t working out. But not every class and teacher can do it. I can’t say enough great things about this integrated program.
I listened to the banter last night of the school committee budget discussion, and it sickened me to hear class sizes increasing in K-2, and the loss of literacy coaches and math coaches. Whatever learning loss this group of kids (current K-2 students), the group of them need this extra time to learn the basics of math and reading (ELA). If a student doesn’t learn the basics by third grade, learning becomes a bigger struggle, and loss of self confidence. AND, if the loss is never addressed; then in middle school there will be more students struggling with MCAS, reading, math, etc and it is more expensive to help these kids, because that level of school doesn’t have foundational learning.
I shuddered during the meeting several times. I understand you need a custodian and a principal and a nurse at every school. You need lunch aides.
The MAYOR has the resources to throw in money to the budget to make up for COVID costs, loss of building rental and use the FEDERAL money to FUND the kids who NEED the foundational learning that they LOST or never had due to the pandemic. The MAYOR needs to be held responsible for funding the budget and putting in the money to maintain the specialists that are needed NOW and next year.
I AGREE 100%
Judge our leaders by their actions, not words. It looks like the Mayor wants the more people to send their kids to private school, which will save the city money so she can keep Newton taxes low, which happens to help the developers that build those $2 million townhouses.
For those eager for override, consequences include forcing fixed income seniors over the edge (ontop of inflation eating their savings) and increase of rents (landlord will just pass increase onto tenant)
.. so a full accounting of waste and bloat should be taken very seriously
Have you listened to the school committee discuss the items being cut from the school? It isn’t bloat.
Without an independent 3rd party looking at overall finances, bloat/waste has not been accounted for to meet overall budget.
The budget is public – have at it. The total budget / student population is very lean compared to surrounding communities.
The problem is we arent cutting bloat.
How can anyone justify cutting math specialists and keep all the fluff.
we need to focus on education. Sorry Henry Turner, the priorities in your consulting career and book deal ARE NOT IMPORTANT. Teach my kids math, science, etc. Enough with your bullsh!t.
Again, HOW ARE WE CUTTING ELEMENTARY MATH SPECIALISTS?! People, focus. we cannot vote for an override until we clean house in NPS. we need administrators who want to education, not indoctrinate. EDUCATION is why we have schools. Teach math. dont fire math teachers. This is dumb.
88% of the school budget is salary. Every school needs a nurse, a custodian, a principal, lunch staff. . . . . While you might not like Mr. Turner, he is the principal, and if you replace him with another principal it is the same cost.
The school lost revenue without being able to rent out the school buildings after hours. Mayor Fuller has the power to replace that revenue.
Can you please identify the bloat?
an independent 3rd party will be able to identify bloat and waste. I don’t see why its unreasonable to ask
What if the 3rd party says there’s no bloat? What’s Plan B? Just cut teachers and staff?
If 3rd party opinion is no bloat, then there is no bloat. Time for override proposal
I heard Zilles had his bullhorn at the city hall rally today and lead the chants. Anyone confirm? Each time I see that guy I laugh. Foreign language teacher turned Union prez with no prior experience. Teachers have no one to blame but themselves with him at helm.
The events of this week at Newton North High School show you why families are fleeing for private school. You don’t need a Blue Ribbon Commission to tell you that parents do not want their children going to an environment where fights break out in the hallways and spill over to the streets in Newtonville with knives out. Yes there were knives out, one in each hand.
@Bruce Wang – This is the first I’ve heard about this. Can you point us anywhere for details?
Exact text from ring: violent crime. Pd o/s with large group fighting with knifes, ems requested @ newton north high
I assume from 911 or police report
Jerry: There were several fights this week among NNHS students, largely driven by the release of very personal details of multiple NNHS students online. Apparently one student had kept a list of all the information and it got leaked online. A lot of kids had some private painful moments told to the entire school. Pretty awful stuff. I thought the school jumped on it pretty quickly and started calling parents involved within 24 hours I’m told.
Bruce Wang: I certainly appreciate the current frustration with various aspects of public school. But I completely disagree with your post. The events of this week among the student body at North shouldn’t convince anyone to suddenly decamp for private school. I can tell you from personal experience that horrible incidents of bullying, anti-Semitism, racism, and physical altercations occur on a not infrequent basis at private schools around the nation, including our local private schools. I know this from personal experience and from reading the news. Private schools are just better at hiding it from the public and often from their own student bodies. That is certainly becoming harder now in the age of social media, but I can name multiple private schools in our area with similar events over the past few years. There have also been several hit with sexual abuse scandals.
There are pluses and minuses to private school. Same for public school. But blaming our public school for an off-campus fight between kids, or the actions of kids on social media, doesn’t make much sense to me. It has been a very tough few years for our kids, and again, from personal experience it seems to me that many of them have suffered from the lack of in person interaction. I’m seeing more incidents of kids acting horrible to each other. My friends with kids in private school aren’t immune, some of their kids are being bullied online as well.
I will also say this for folks thinking of heading to private school. Choose carefully. There are a fair number of very expensive, very mediocre private schools in our area. And a private school environment doesn’t stop kids from being awful to each other. Far from it. And in my experience, when something negative occurs at a private school, the school is equally focused on your child’s welfare and the reputation of the school. And in a conflict, the school always comes first. Always.
But using the events at North to push a narrative about the public school system as a whole just seems wrong and unfair to me.
I saw an incidence report on my ring account about a large group of ppl fighting involving a knife in nnhs. Was that it? That’s terrifying! Hopefully students will be expelled and punished within the law
I find it weird that parents are not hearing about some of the recent incidents that are occurring in our schools from the Superintendent. I felt like in the past that even if your kid was not at that particular school, there would be a mention of an incident a within the school system. There have been two recent anti semitic incidents at South as well as another harassment incident during the month of March. For the harassment incident there was a lot going on via social media and parents were notified 5 days after the incident.
Not that the above justifies moving to private school as Fig mentions as I think there are other issues driving that trend. I just found it curious that there wasn’t a broader acknowledgment of all of these recent issues..
I’m shocked that I only learnt this from my ring account (incident report)
The students with the knifes should be expelled on the spot. No soft on crime bs here. This should have been reported to the entire school district to tell us that NPS will not TOLERATE this at all
Bugek, it was one student with a knife outside of the school in Newtonville village. My understanding is that one of the Newtonville merchants called the police when they saw the knife. And NNHS got an email about it. It wasn’t on campus.
I think it was handled properly. I wouldn’t think a fight off campus between students would be reported to the entire school district. On campus would be a different story. And it was very quickly disclosed to the NNHS community.
As that email said, there are a lot of kids hurting right now at Newton North. Social media has played a huge role in this, and as a parent at North I’d like to encourage folks reading this to be calm, not overreact, not universalize these incidents into your own personal “hot takes” on the school system, and to please remember that for each of these incidents there are kids behind the stories, often in emotional pain. And to remember that the school has privacy rules and state/federal laws they need to follow as well.
Parents should react however they feel is appropriate to their kids’ classmate threatening another with a knife a block away from the school.
My point was to call for calm and reasoned reactions Adam. But since I don’t control parental reactions any more than you do, parents will do what they choose to do. I do think sometimes folks online will spiral the outrage out of control without all the facts.
Parent community acknowledges your call for reason, and it’s been noted in your file.
Email went out to Newton North parents yesterday. Families were contacted earlier. It is a hard choice to make in this most recent incident, the more you advertise the public disclosures, the more the innocent kids mentioned suffer. Kids can be very cruel to each other.
I think one of the things that school administrators struggle with is the push/pull between disclosure and privacy, as well as copycat behavior. I think Newton has generally, but not always, focused more on disclosure. Certain more than the private schools I’ve know about. One of the first things I’ve seen private schools do in certain situations is ask for a non-disclosure…
Not saying Newton is perfect. Far from it. Just trying to have nuanced views based on what I know of the facts. And just my personal view.
I’m interested to see what punishment is placed on the knife wielding student. Anything less than explusion sends a very bad message to parents and students.
Bugek wouldn’t you like to hear all (or maybe some more) of the facts of the case before you pass judgement?