This tweet from City Councilor Tarik Lucas went out this evening.
For those who haven’t heard yet, there are serious plans for a gun store to open on Washington Street in Newtonville. This is absolutely unacceptable! A gun store does not fit Newton’s values. #NewtonMA
I also heard that it was to be topic discussed at tonight’s Newtonville Area Council meeting. I haven’t heard how that went, though.
The proposed shop would be on Washington St between Cabot’s Ice Cream and Marty’s Liquor.
In the time it took me to write that short post I since leaned that there is already a Facebook Group called Stop Newton Gun Sales that already has 660 members,
… and this from Councilor Bowman –
No doubt many of my fellow councilors will join me to docket an item to review zoning related to Firearms Retailers. I will have this filed by the docket deadline on Monday.
I have been a longtime supporter of reducing gun violence in our country. I was similarly surprised yesterday to learn about this store coming to Newton. As upsetting as it is to many residents, as it stands now we have been told that there is no legal basis to deny this store based on our current zoning.
Susan Albright, President of the Council, emailed the Council earlier today: “I’ve learned that the gun shop is like any other shop in Newton (except the requirement for a federal license and police sign-off on security). There is no legal reason to prevent this shop from opening. We have had two gun shops in Newton in the past, as i was informed by the Chief; one was in West Newton near the police station the other was in Nonantum. Both of these shops are no longer with us.”
I am guessing that the City Council will be discussing this. But thank you to everyone for letting the City Council know how you feel.
Its interesting that the owner feels there would actually be demand for guns in Newton.
Are there more gun owners in Newton than we think?
If home invasions keep getting worse, I actually might look into it. Seriously
This reminds me of “Village Arms” at Echo Bridge Station – does anyone know the story behind this?
https://www.guntrustdepot.com/FFL-Dealers/ViewDealer?id=16682
Ice cream, Pot, liquor, and guns. The 4 food groups within walking distance.
Ruthanne was caught completely flatfooted on the area council zoom last night. Either the popo didn’t inform her, she was just passive, or did not anticipate the blowback. I’ve come to realize she’s your typical clueless rich person. She’s a Mrs. Magoo, or rather more respectfully Mayor Magoo.
Our city leaders have grand designs for change in Newton. They support new housing of every type with the emphasis on diversity. They promote rapid business growth and expanded cultural changes. A firearm shop is simply one of the unintended consequences of rapid population growth. Who knows what other metamorphosis will occur! Perhaps those who live in Newton who want to modernize our life style should think more carefully about their vision for our future.
That’s nonsense, Colleen.
Complete and utter nonsense indeed. I dislike the idea of a gun ship as much as many others here, but it has nothing to do with anything else going on in the city.
I feel like recreational guns are more popular now. When I was growing up in Newton the only people who had guns in their homes were pretty much police officers and hunters. Hand guns were considered too much of an accidental death risk to be worth it with the low crime here. Now I know some people who go to the firing range.
@Newstoner A gun ship is way too big for Crystal Lake.
I am in utter shock to hear this! Imagine our kids walking to lunch from North High and passing by this shop! You don’t think this will spark interest and curiosity being right in their faces?! How is this part of Newton’s values?? I know its legal to own a gun, but what is next? Should we put a strip club or porn shop in Newton Centre? Those are legal as well. Just saying. Newton is selling itself and I am very disheartened. This is NOT the Newton I moved to.
Dog whistle much Ms. Minaker?
Neither pro nor against but will be both interesting and fun to see this play out.
It’s also interesting to see the selective use of “Newton Values” and NIMBY – interpreted one way when it comes to development and zoning reform; and the complete opposite when it comes to a gun store, pot shops and leaf blowers.
I agree with @Newtoner. A gun ship is way too big for Crystal Lake.
Massachusetts firearms license applications doubled last year. The Newton Police Department has been quite busy with these applications.
This is what happens when naive activists–especially rich people and their kids–call for extreme and unreasoned measures to “disband” and “defund” the police. We have armed intruders invading Newton homes, periodic mobs vandalizing and looting Back Bay, and a 54% increase in Boston homicides (2020 vs. 2019). Overgeneralized skepticism and criticism of the police, primarily from ultra-liberal circles like Newton, have made it difficult even for the best police officers to perform their duties. Criminals know this, and they have begun acting with impunity. It shows up in the statistics nationwide.
Because of these trends, there are plenty of responsible, peaceful people who no longer feel they can count on the police to protect them from a violent criminal. They are exercising their rights to own a firearm.
Banning a firearms store from Newton will not reduce the number of guns in Newton. It won’t make Newton or Massachusetts any safer. All it will do is deprive the city of another way to build the commercial tax base.
The fact is, firearms are legal in the US, Mass. and Newton. Owning them is constitutionally protected. You can’t keep firearms out of Newton. If, as a matter of principle, you would like to ban firearms stores from Newton, you are entitled to petition the city council to do so.
But please don’t kid yourself. If you want a safer community, you would do well to heed what the data are showing: the fashionable anti-police polemic is hobbling our police department, making our communities vastly more dangerous, and, paradoxically, increasing the number of firearms in our community.
And before you try to lecture me about Daunte Wright: this was very tragic and the police officer will have to answer for her actions. Disparaging and trying to disband the police will not prevent this kind of incident. It makes it worse by emboldening suspects to resist arrest and ignore police instructions. The fact is, Mr. Wright had a warrant for unlawful possession of a firearm. Unarmed social workers cannot safely deal with offenders like that.
I don’t recall that a gun shop was included in anyone’s vision for Hello Washington Street.
Sorry but I agree with Colleen. As our neighborhoods grow in density, and people become more anonymous, these kinds of businesses will grow. That’s what happens in big cities.
It’s amusing when residents post ‘guns don’t reflect Newton’s values’ or ‘interesting that the owner feels there would actually be demand for guns in Newton.’
Some people think Newton is a special, idyllic island where people are enlightened. (Very condescending)
Gun sales are up by large numbers. Last year, 54,082 MA residents filed for a new License to Carry permit, eclipsing the previous year’s number by more than 30,000. I would assume demand for firearms among residents of greater Newton reflect that trend.
It’s just a small business. I expect its impact on the community to be the same as the marijuana dispensaries. (None)
It isn’t easy to get a gun license or permit to carry in Massachusetts, and the local police get to decide based on their own investigations of applicants,. But the fact that Newton has had gun shops in the past, and that there is one just over the line in Waltham, would indicate there is an existing demand. Gun ownership in America has been exploding (no pun intended) over the past decade. Ironically, every time there is a mass shooting (there was another one yesterday in Indianapolis) the demand for firearms goes up.
Here’s a lovely reason to place a gun shop next to a liquor store. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2013-09-19-chi-study-links-liquor-stores-and-bars-to-shooting-risk-20130918-story.html
Isn’t there some mechanism, from the standpoint of public safety, to block this store from coming to Newton?
Poor you. Let the free market decide if a business thrives or fails, not your feelings.
There’s a gun shop just outside of downtown Waltham, and J&J arms just to the south of us in Dedham.
The Weston Shooters Club is on Rt 20, just off of 128. Concord, Wayland, etc. all have shooting clubs too. And, if I remember correctly, you can get a bow hunting (and maybe rifle hunting?) permit for deer on Weston public lands.
I can’t find any gun shops or ranges in Boston proper, nor in Cambridge or other “inner” suburbs.
So, my best guess is that currently if you want to buy or shoot a gun you have to go right up to or outside of 128. I’d guess the shop sees a business opportunity with close proximity to downtown/metro Boston. I doubt the climate of Newton has anything to do with it (and I’d bet at the Weston Shooters club has at least some Newton based members)
I grew up in a suburb of Chicago, riding El cars with bullet holes through the windows. My high school roommate was robbed at gunpoint in the 90’s. When I got to MIT I took pistol class because I was sick and tired of being absolutely terrified of guns… it didn’t help much.
But I don’t think having a gun shop move in has anything to do with the density of Newton, or will make Newton any more or less safe.
I do think that changing the rules/zoning past the 11th hour, will continue to hurt our towns reputation as one to work with/do business in. And I think our already bad reputation there is why we get the kind of development we do. That is, only what is allowed by right, with no negotiation, resulting in McMansions and projects that could be converted to 40Bs at the drop of a hat.
…that multi colored vertical facade that’s so popular? Recommended in the 40b architectural handbook. See also the set back on the top story and making it a different color.
As always, this is a personal statement, and represents only myself. (Lunch is over, back to work)
If this opens, I bet we will see an increase in firearm use in domestic violence cases in Newton within a year or so. Probably also some increase in accidental firearm deaths, possibly involving children. I don’t know the zoning history or rules well enough, but I imagine there is a public safety factor when approving this stuff for zoning?
Si vis pacem, para bellum
I don’t want any more guns in our city (or state, or country, for that matter).
The town should not waste taxpayer time or money to fight a legal small business owner from conducting business.
What???? How did this happen? I can’t wait to move out of here. Seriously, Ruthanne Fuller must go!!!
I can certainly respect why this concerns folks but not sure why people assume Mayor Fuller has the authority to stop or allow this. She’s mayor, not dictator. Businesses are regulated by federal, state and local laws and, locally, zoning codes. Mayors don’t get to just rewrite laws or zoning on their own, which generally speaking is a good thing.
Oh nice. Next to Cabots Ice-cream, where my kids have gone for years. Bye Newton! And RUTHANNE FULLER IS NOT GOod FOR NEWTON! Whoa! This is mind blowing. It’s not even like Newton is a hunting region.
I’m excited for the new gun shop! I hope it happens. As one of the many (read: more than you probably think) gun owners in the city, I typically have to drive much further to get to a shop. Now I won’t have to.
With all the break-ins lately you would think most sane homeowners would consider buying a gun for home defense. But then I remembered this is Newton we are talking about. Where the attitude towards guns makes the UK look gun friendly. Enjoy your shithole.
Actually Colleen, you have it backwards. If this location had a new building on it, absolutely no way it would be rented to a gun shop. You won’t see a gun shop going into Trio or Austin Street. Or frankly any landlord at Newtonville Village.
This location used to host a dry cleaner, and those can be difficult to re-rent at market rates. And if folks haven’t noticed, there are a lot of empty storefronts across Newton. Landlords can sometimes decide to rent to marginal or controversial tenants due to necessity. It is important to find out the facts here.
I’d also note, that perhaps a conversation with some of the bigger developers who wish to continue working on Washington Street in the future might be useful. Perhaps there is a monetary solution to the problem that the private sector can help with.
In addition, for folks willing to blame the City Council or the Mayor on this, it is really a state problem. Gun shops are treated the same as other retail establishments. There are limits to local zoning. And Newton used to have some gun shops, just not in such a public location.
I’m going to advocate against this new establishment, but I strongly think we will make more progress if we don’t act like a mob, we follow the law, we advocate for a responsible position, and we don’t dox and threaten the landlord. And let’s try not to use this as a tool for some other political purpose. Every post whining about the failures of city government just distract from trying to prevent the store from opening.
Greg- we elect Mayors to provide leadership. They receive input and make business decisions. This is not something the majority of people in Newton need or want. Why wasn’t this brought to the public’s attention? That is her job. You can say it wouldn’t make a difference all you want but it makes all the difference!
It’s amazing to see the ignorance articulated in many of these responses. “Newton is not a hunting region” (as if firearms are only for hunting). Or “The owner thinks there is a demand for guns in Newton” (because people who live in other towns can’t visit the store).
Most shocking is that some commenters think that because they don’t want to exercise a Constitutional right, then you shouldn’t be able to either.
I hope more gun stores, recreational marijuana dispensaries, and liquor stores open in Newton. And everywhere else.
If you don’t like those things, then don’t use them.
Anne Alvarado didn’t look very hard for ranges in Boston. Boston Gun & Rifle has been in the same location in Dorchester (Fields Corner) for years.
Dear residents, pls stop pretending that you do indeed think the registered felons and career criminals go to the gun stores to purchase guns to rob you with. This narrative is beyond pathetic.
Does anyone know who owns the building? I think if we put pressure on the landlord we can prevent him/her from opening the gun store.
I have signed his petition.
I have not seen gun stops in our neighboring towns- unless I fortunately missed them- Along with hate – gun stores have no home in Newton!
Oh no! Scary guns and people exercising thier rights…terrible.
Absolutely don’t want gun shop in Newton.
What’s the difference in selling a gun in Newton or the shop that all ready exists a half mile away in Waltham? Sales are only to legal gun owners. Guns are going to be bought regardless. Let Newton benefit from the revenue of sales done legally. If the city wanted to do something proactive and productive they would require them to host firearms safety classes periodically.
This discussions reminds me of many others that have taken place when it comes to change via new businesses. People who have no interest, and often very very little knowledge, of said business talking about it as if everyone shares their view. Maybe some of these people come from places with small populations where this could be somewhat of a reality, but newton has about 100,000 people. I Suppose people assume that because its such a difficult place to live in by virtue of the cost and scarcity of homes, those who do live here are of the same elite mind that are above such things as a gun store, pot shop, or a billiard hall. No clearly we should be encouraging more fine dining, banks and maybe gyms so long as they’re fancy enough.
I’m not even especially pro gun. I’m super liberal. I’ve always supported assault weapon ban and regularly argue with those who I consider gun nuts. But I enjoy shooting from time to time, and have considered buying one(or some) specifically because there are a number of companies that produce guns in NE, and I dig local antiques. Mass is not shy about restrictions it places on guns. Plenty of guns made here, can’t be sold here.
Mass has a small handful of gun stores, I wouldn’t want a flood of them. But talking about this as if it’s ludicrous for one to open in newton just comes off as snobby residents assuming their views are, A) surely the views of most, or B) The view most should have anyway. Like the pediatricians and moms have zero awareness of how Maude Flanders they were being talking about dispensaries and the children. Having talked/argued with them, some were quite cocky about being sure newton doesn’t want pot, just liquor. Keep that in mind how that worked out.
The scare tactics and nonsense being associated with this business opening are laughable. Just a heads up (for those of you who have actually lived here for more than 8 minutes), violent crime’s went down (slightly) while E&J Guns (West Newton) was in business, so much for that narrative. A quick glance at Newton’s crime rates throughout that time period would show anyone interested that but alas, we’re more concerned with with hyperbole and cancel culture and fear mongering from those who most likely know nothing about firearms.
There are multiple gun stores within 10 miles of city hall, 95% of you don’t even know that. Instead of teaching kids/young adults to respect guns and authority, we cover their eyes and yell “it’s the boogeyman”.
My buddies kids were taught about guns and gun safety before most in Newton allow their kids to play frisbee. Living a pseudo subsistence based lifestyle until they left for college. They grew up to be self made millionaires with beautiful families. Guns aren’t the problem here, people lack basic respect for human life.
Between this thread and the one on nextdoor I hope the city approves the gun shop. We have weed why not have guns. Since when are we the sacred city? Let them open the shop, make a living, and protect our homes. If in fact this happens I’m going to get my conceal license. My neighbor told me earlier at least five people on our street have a LTC. Outside of our villages he said the mayors husband has one.
I am a believer in the 2nd Amendment. Gun shops don’t offend me. Gun violence does, but its the Right of every citizen to own a firearm if they wish too. I am for background checks, and waiting periods. When you have utter nonsense like Defund The Police, governors who refuse to call out the National Guard to stop rioting, our great cities reduced to urban crime zones because incompetent mayors blame the police they refuse to support…the list goes on…the flood of illegal immigrants…many Americans are terrified, and rightly so. People who have never owned a gun are buying them because of insane liberalism run amok. This is what is called an “inconvenient truth”.
Why can’t the shop owner earn an honest living? Why can’t the landlord make some money? With the recent break ins, I would think people would want the opportunity to protect themselves. The mayor said there is nothing that she can legally do to stop the shop from opening. Legal ownership across the US has been on the rise. Women and minorities being licensed are also on the rise. In MA, every resident is licensed by their town. Most towns/cities inside 128 don’t issue concealed carry licenses without legitimate business purposes. You will be surprised how many of your neighbors or coworkers are licensed or own guns legally.
Here’s an FAQ from Dedham regarding Fire arm dealers and zoning (for the town of Dedham): https://www.dedham-ma.gov/home/showdocument?id=11701
Last I checked there’s still a 2nd amendment to the constitution and Newton is a city in the United States of America. Both subject to change if Newton had its way I’m sure.
Women and minorities purchased 40% of all forearms in the country last year. The owner of the gun shop knows this. Would you all feel safer if a third of all homes in Newton had a gun? Would you move?
sounds like a great business. Maybe the Newtonians will have an awakening and grasp their 2A rights. Based on the comments, i doubt it.
@Matt Lai – Nope. No deleted comments from you.
From the mayor’s newsletter …
Thanks to the thoughtful collaboration of City Council President Susan Albright, the City’s Law, Planning, Inspectional Services, and Police Departments, today I and members of the City Council have jointly docketed an amendment to the City’s zoning ordinance that would only allow firearms sales related uses in certain zoning districts in the City. It will also require firearms sales uses to be approved by special permit by the City Council. Finally, it will create specific special permit criteria, including a buffer zone between a firearms dealer and residences and schools.
What is the process moving forward for the proposed zoning amendment?
The City Council will assign the proposed zoning amendments to the appropriate committees at its meeting on Tuesday, April 20 and also assign a public hearing date. It is likely that the matter will be assigned to the Zoning and Planning Committee (ZAP) for a public hearing on May 10, 2021. At the public hearing, the Council will hear input from the public. It will then discuss the draft language, potentially make revisions, and ultimately recommend that matter to the full City Council for a final vote to approve the zoning amendments.
In general, zoning is prospective and would not limit ongoing uses and businesses that are already operating.
However, the State Zoning Act, Chapter 40A, does state that any approved zoning amendment will apply to any use/business that has not commenced prior to the publication of notice of the public hearing for the zoning amendment.
It is expected that the City Council will provide notice of the public hearing in the newspaper on April 26 and May 3, 2021. Practically speaking, if there is a proposed firearm dealer use that has not started operating by those dates, it will be subject to the proposed zoning amendments whenever those amendments are passed.
Why are we not prohibiting gun stores everywhere in Newton?
The City Council has broad authority to regulate all land uses in Newton, including the location of firearms dealers. That said, in light of the nature of the issues and the implications of Constitutional protections, it may be reasonable to expect that the more restrictively firearm sales are regulated, the more likely such regulations will be subject to a court challenge.
It is a legal business, just like all the Pot shops opening in Newton. You cannot just walk in and buy a gun. People need to defend their families and property.. If you want to defund the police, people need guns.
What is wrong with you people, you crave your civil rights yet you deny the fact ones right to self defense with a firearm, yet you coddle perpetrators with open arms so they can harm more. My and other’s right for self defense is just as important as the right to free speech.
Replace “Newton” with “[random red state” and “gun store” with “planned parenthood” or “mosque” and maybe some of the people who are jumping to negative conclusions will think harder about this.
P
They still have police in Newton?Im surprized..there was such a shop in nrby Watertown for decades no one was ever killed there 2 my knowledge..I lived in Newton 18 + years socialisim doesn’t fit my values..I will be moving soon after 65.5 yrs in the peoples republic of Massachusetts
DA Rollins doesn’t prosecute property crimes to my knowledge..and Mass has no right of protection in public? Either..
Very glad I no longer live in Newton glad I no longer live in Wellesley and becoming happier everyday that I’m planning on leaving the state anyways
Suburbs under Joe Biden are going to get zoned out of existence so I’ve returned to the city. Life
Gun license applications in Newton have skyrocketed over the past 12 months. There are lots of responsible gun owners in Newton. I for one think that a marijuana dispensary represents less of “Newton values” than a gun store.
The responses here are hilarious. It’s amazing how insulated people’s social circles have become that some of you are naive enough to think what you do. Tons of people in Newton have guns.
Some of you also act like this will make an impact on who owns guns in the community, as if people can only buy things if they live in walking distance from a store. The only impact it will make is more revenue for Newton and Newton businesses versus having that revenue go to other towns and cities.
Children should know guns are a lawful part of American life. It’s a travesty that the school, which had a proud history of marksmanship competition in the past, wouldn’t even include a firearms safety course in the PE curriculum. Newton residents would rather see more accidental deaths due to lack of education than ever dare have proper safety be taught to children when half of American homes have firearms in them.
Lack of gun education is the problem, and its my constitutional right & if you dont like it oh well. Just leave me and my guns out of it!!! PRO 2A ALL DAY
There are more gun owners everywhere than you think. Most citizens who carry concealed, or who keep a gun for protection, don’t advertise it. Because it’s none of your business. Guns are literally as old as America, and they’re consistent with “Newton values”. I’ll be their first customer.
Face it, it’s a mental health issue, people are sheep, just blame the guns, this business has just as much right to open as any other, don’t want a gun, don’t go there, simple.
It would be interesting to know the percentage of Newton homeowners who own firearms.
I was surprised to learn that some (more than I thought) neighbors already do have them — or perhaps not so surprised.
NO GUNS PLEASE!!! With all the school shootings it would be unwise and to have the shop just around the corner from Newton High School is just plain stupid, irresponsible and not safe for our youth. This guy can find another way to make money and why pay rent! Just say no!
I don’t like the idea of another gun shop in the area, but I also don’t know if there is much we can do at the local level to stop it. Guns are a much bigger issue that is regulated at the state and federal level. We can get upset, write letters and change the zoning, but that’s only going to go so far.
This proposed shop is about the same distance from my house as the one in Waltham, so nothing really new there.
What worries me is the reactionary anger I’m reading on Facebook and in Nextdoor, in which people are ready to vote out any politician that suggests a gun shop can legally open up in Newton. Or those that are upset about the process by which the news came out about it. This idea that the government is against the people, that they’re all corrupt, and they all need to be changed is just not true. It’s also pure populism and outright dangerous to our political system.
I’m also upset by some of the blatant racism I’m reading in this thread. Suggesting that diversity and density brings in crime and guns is part of the thought and language that just needs to stop. It’s factually wrong and steeped in historical racism.
Yes, I get that this is upsetting. But please, let’s try to be rational about our laws, about our society, and about our elected leaders.
To the couple of pro gun owners posting that tout their first amendment rights and how popular they think guns are in newton. Tell that to the last gun shop owners in Newton. I grew up in a rural area where guns were used as a sport. There will be no demand in Newton. Lol. My dad taught us how to shoot. My brother shot him in the leg by accident. Years later my brother’s best friend and roommate shot himself to death with my brother’s disassembled and locked 22 rifle that my dad gifted him. Accessibility is a real concern and people have that right too!! Why a mile from a middle school and high school? 45 Mass shootings since March.
@Bill – you’re right, I didn’t look very hard. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I asked apple maps for “shooting ranges” and “guns and ammo” in a specific geographic area. (I did zoom in on Boston when there was nothing there, but nothing new was found)
I think it stands though: 1) there are some shops and ranges nearby, so it’s not like People living in Newton, Allston, Brighton, etc. could purchase a gun, and 2) the person starting this thinks it’s a viable business. As much as I, personally, don’t like guns – especially handguns – I think that they have a right to open.
Maybe they’ll make it. Maybe they won’t. Maybe it’ll be so heavily picketed that going to Cabot’s ice cream will become like visiting the Coolidge Corner Trader Joe’s in the mid-aughts (Every Saturday morning, we would walk past an abortion clinic with our reusable bags. I’d get told, both coming and going – laden with groceries – not to abort my baby. I can imagine sign bearing busybodies warning adults eating a triple scoop cone not to buy a gun!)
Slightly off topic but related- The 2nd amendment didn’t seem to help those who “stormed” the capitol. If the people feel they need a gun to protect themselves against a tyrannical government, why aren’t those who stormed the capitol arguing that their second amendment rights were violated, because they were up “in arms” about the tyrannical “stealing” of an election and should have been allowed to really take it to the limit? Setting aside the fact that they probably aren’t smart enough, the reality is that a pure right to bear arms leads to a devolved state like Afghanistan – where everyone gets a kalashnikov (sp?) on their 5th birthday and the state, not willing to kill all of its people, is in a standoff.
Unless you include the well regulated militia part of it, the second amendment is an anachronism from the times when muskets were the weapon of governments. The right to bear arms, if truly used to defend against tyranny, would have to include grenade launchers at a minimum in these days.
But let’s not think it through.
“Tons of people in Newton have guns.”
No. The stats don’t support this. The rate of legal gun ownership in Newton is very low. (And will hopefully remain this way)
I’m looking forward to this shop opening. I’m currently forced to drive out of town to go to a gun store, then bring the guns back into Newton. These other stores are also located near homes, schools, etc and this does not cause any issues. The process to obtain guns is rather difficult in Massachusetts, as are penalties for supplying guns to unlicensed people, so there is no public safety concern.
I’m one of thousands of gun owners in Newton. Perhaps your neighbors are gun owners too, and they’d be happy to educate you on the many reasons for gun ownership and the extensive safety precautions we take.
@Mary….Newton has 1,915 active Class A License to Carry (LTC) holders as of January 1, 2021 according to State records. That is approximately 2% of the Newton population. If look at the annual issuing statistics, Newton issued 85 LTCs in 2009 (15 year low) and 460 in 2020 (15 year high). I am not taking a side, just offering a few data points around the discussion.
wow 73 comments
bet ya
if chic fil a
was coming to newton village 14 would get 730!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regarding firearms, I know some of you are thinking about acquiring one due to the recent uptick in burglaries. I understand that point of view, and I’ve personally spent a lot of time around firearms in my life, especially ones of larger size. And many of my friends hunt and I grew up in an area where gun ownership was fairly common.
I’d encourage you not to buy a gun for protection. The odds are you needing it, knowing how to use it, being able to get it out and arm it, and shooting the right person are long indeed.
But more importantly, death by suicide increases tremendously in homes that have access to a firearm. I’ve lost two friends to suicide in my life, both with their own firearm. I strongly believe they’d both be alive today without the gun being close and within easy reach. I spent hours asking myself why they killed themselves, what more I could have done, and why I didn’t see the signs sooner. And I’m just the friend. I can only imagine how the family feels.
You are far more likely to die by a firearm in a suicide or an accidental shooting, than use that firearm to defend your home or property from an armed assailant. Especially in Newton, which is one of the safest cities in the nation, even with this small uptick of burglaries.
This is not me making a 2nd amendment rant, or arguing for banning guns. No matter how many gun safes you buy, no matter how safe the gun is, no matter how trained you are, there is still a downside to having a gun in your house. And just because your loved ones are not depressed now, does not mean life won’t take a turn for the worse. And the gun will be there like it was for my friends. And they certainly knew how to get it, and they were trained how to use it.
Joe Rizza:
If Chick-fil-a comes to Newton, I’ll meet you in line. They have awesome waffle fries, and I grew up on that chicken sandwich.
Not everything has to be political.
in newton it does!!!!!!!!!!
Nobody has any way of knowing how many residents of Newton own firearms
@mary @Donna I posted this earlier, but I think the moderator did not approve. As of January 1, 2021 Newton has 1,915 active firearm license holders. This information is reported annually by the State of Mass. https://www.mass.gov/doc/firearms-licenses-active-jan-1-2021
460 Class LTC (license to carry) were issued by Newton in 2020, which is the most in the past 15 years. The low year was 2009 with 85 LTCs issued.
This number does not reflect how many residents own a firearm, but rather how many have proper licenses. For the record I am not taking a side, just reporting the stats.
The hyperbole continues. People killing themselves via suicide should infringe upon others ability to use/own a gun safely? By that guise we shouldn’t be able to own a vehicle because someone may drive themselves off a cliff or fire 20 beers down and mow down a family in the way home. You don’t punish law abiding citizens for the actions of a lunatic or someone struggling with mental health issues…and that’s a privilege not a right in regards to driving.
Like I mentioned previously, E&J guns was in west Newton for years.
No crime, no issues, no unsavory clientele, yet here we are with the “sky’s falling” propaganda. Listening to some of you paints a sad picture of what Newton’s evolved into.
“Not in my Newton”, “I don’t want it here”, “who approved this”. Are these real comments and question’s? No one has to ask each and every one of you permission to open a legal retail store. The uninformed are strong in this thread. You’ve got people talking about it being a mile away from Newton South??? Have you ever actually stepped foot in Newton?
Who are you tell anyone that you “don’t need a gun” in Newton? Any chance that we realize part of carrying a gun daily (maybe you work in a high crime area) is bringing it back home to your residence at the end of the day?
Derek, you might want to go re-read my post, if that is who you are directing your comment to. I’m not suggesting infringement on you right to use/own a gun safely. There is the 2nd amendment, you are allowed to own a gun. I’m suggesting, through personal experience, that you think twice before you do so, since I’ve known folks who have blown their brains out. In both cases, we thought absent the easy access to the firearm, that person might be alive today. Might. Who knows. Maybe they’d have taken their car off a cliff. We won’t know. We do know that homes with guns have much higher rates of suicide. And we do know that the first action of mental health professionals on behalf of someone who is showing suicidal thoughts is to remove guns from the home and lock up pills. Ask any mental health professional.
Many of my friends who own a gun keep it locked in a safe. Some keep the ammunition in a different room. That helps prevent accidents, but it doesn’t stop someone if they want to use it to end their life.
Anyone who actually has spent significant time around guns in their lives (like I have) should have a healthy respect for what they can do. Both in the right hands, and the wrong hands. There is very little reason in Newton to own a gun for safety. I’m sure there are exceptions. But I’ve heard multiple folks muse about buying a gun due to the robbery uptick. And that is much more a recipe for harm, not for the robber, but for the homeowner.
Hunting rifles are a different topic, which I’m glad to discuss in detail, if anyone on here is a hunter.
What I find interesting is that most of the folks commenting supporting gun ownership likely don’t own a gun in real life. At least from my experience, the most ardent Second Amendment folks know little to nothing about gun ownership. At least online.
Fig,
The suicide part was directed at your comment. If someone is in such a grave mental state, the absence of a gun will most likely lead to another method of choice. Using someone who’s willing to take their own life to essentially scare people from purchasing a gun seems ridiculous (of course my opinion). Do you tell people to avoid car ownership because people have committed suicide via that avenue? What about alcohol and all the societal issues it causes when abused.
If you were to keep your gun and ammo in different locations how do you use that weapon in the act of self preservation (hopefully you never face that scenario)? To insinuate (maybe I’m wrong in your attempt) that myself or anyone else that shares my point of view “doesn’t respect guns” would be about as off-base as you could be.
Hunting rifles? No need for discussion in my opinion, they’re for hunting. This conversation is heading in a different direction than what the initial “issue” was. It was about opening a legal gun shop, where LEGAL gun owners could patronize a LOCAL business. The utter insanity being posted by some is frankly, shocking.
Compare it to loss of innocent life on the roads by drunken drivers? 11,000 (give or take) dead every year. Is there talk of banishing cars from society? Banishing fast cars? Banishing big cars? Can a criminal (unlicensed) get their hands on a car and use to it to hurt someone? Are people suggesting we should be able to sue Audi because some scumbag used it for unintended purposes and loss of life ensued? Sounds eerily familiar doesn’t it…..
To all those suggesting that there isn’t a market in Newton, might I direct you to the mass.gov “Active licenses” data as of Jan 1 2021: https://www.mass.gov/doc/firearms-licenses-active-jan-1-2021
There are well over 2,000 active licenses in Newton.
Good luck. It’s near impossible for shops to get guns from wholesale distributors now because they are on allocation to the best (largest volume) established customers. Ammo is even worse, and you can forget about small arms primers. Add to that the fact that gun shops are very competitive on price – there is one shop in eastern MA that is so busy you have to take a number from a deli ticket machine to get your spot in line, and wait for the doorman to let you in when there is room. If this guy prices competitively against the afore referenced shop (people in the gun world will know of what shop I speak) he will not make enough money to keep the light on. If he prices sufficient to cover his overhead he will have few customers. That being said, I wish him luck.
The best way to make a small fortune running a small independent gun shop in MA is to start with a large one (fortune, that is).
Then there are the volumes required to go manufacturer direct or join a dealer “buyers group” to negotiate deals with distributors. The guys who do this can make a profit selling at prices that are nearly as low as the “wholesale” the little guy has to pay for his shop inventory.
As to public safety – name one other merchant in town that can assure you that all customers have been police investigated and not so much as denounced or suspected of a crime. Even taking the 5th is enough to be denied your gun rights in MA.
There have been no adverse consequences for Natick having two gun shops within a very short walking distance of the town common.
The inconvenience of driving one town over to buy a gun pales in comparison to licensing, a required class, locked storage requirement, ever present threat of license revocation for what would not trigger any adverse action in other states (being suspected of a crime or even found not guilty is also grounds for denial of 2A rights in MA).
Donna, but you can see how many licensed gun owners there are in Newton. It’s less than 2000. Some presumably don’t actually own guns.
https://public.tableau.com/profile/dalton.main#!/vizhome/CarrylicensesinMass_/Sheet1
Derek, I don’t think that is correct. Especially when alcohol is involved as it often is. I’ll try and find some of the studies I’ve read on this, but even the 2A advocates I talk to acknowledge the links between gun ownership and suicide. Not trying to pick a fight but I’m also not making up the link.
Citizen, I thought the same but didn’t want to say it. Gun shops are a tough business. And Waban, 2000 gun owners is a drop in the bucket. Come to the South where I grew up. At least 30% or more. Now most of those were hunting or shotguns but even so. 2000 is not a customer base. I’m somewhat confused as to the business model. But maybe the rent is really low.
Fig,
You don’t think what is correct? In 2019 we lost 10,149 people to drunk driving. That’s a fact.
Where did I say people wouldn’t use them to commit suicide? What I said was, if there’s no gun available other means of self execution will take its place. Again, we’re talking about someone with a mental health issue who’s apparently intent on offing himself. That person is a danger to themselves, gun or not.
Trying to pretend that every gun owner has to watch out for these mentally ill people walking around their bedrooms is what I consider a scare tactic. If you have someone in your home who’s experiencing a mental health crisis, then you need to adjust your gun storage/access and lifestyle as a gun owner. I’d also suggest getting that person some help.
I feel we’re going astray. I don’t mind the dialogue at all, I just can’t for the life of me see how most of this (bottom line, inventory etc) is really any of our business. The guys starting a business, a legal one. People in this city aren’t any safer or more in danger because this establishments opening.
Frankly, watching some city selectmen/councillors (and whatever other politically appointed position) try to re-zone an already approved business is extremely concerning. Trying to “dox” the landlord and “other businesses” he’s a part of is an absolute disgrace. Putting someone’s name out there because some here are afraid of the unknown is plain wrong.
Let me ask you fig, since you brought it up. How many of the anti-gun/anti-store people here have any knowledge of firearms or anything about them? How about any knowledge in regards to whats required to open this type of business? I’d be willing to bet they’re far less knowledgeable than the 2A supporters you seem to single out as uniformed.
Most gun shops have material for potential customers relating to suicide. I think it’s a valid point. Guns absolutely facilitate suicide, and educating potential owners and family members of owners on mental health is always a good idea. Hopefully this shop follows suit. That said, while a gun may provide an easy and statistically “successful” way for one to take their own life, and perhaps those with a history of such issues should think strongly about that, I wouldn’t say that is reason not to own one. Half the country has guns, a tiny relative portion kill themselves with said guns.
Fignewtonville brings up a good point on the training front. I’ve been a hobbyist firearms instructor in MA for 10 years. I was more active in college where I helped to get something like 70 students licensed as an instructor for the, gasp, UMass Gun Club (the police department loved us, by the way). Training is relatively cheap. If you are going to own a gun, you really should learn to use it properly. The state-mandated minimum is good for the basics of being safe and having a rudimentary foundation, but potential owners should do themselves a favor and invest in a good class. Sig Academy is slightly over an hour away and offers world class instruction. Spend 1/2 the price of one of your guns on a class there. Also, join a local club and shoot regularly. Shooting is a perishable skill.
Also, all the anti-gun folks here — I don’t expect to convert any of you. You have made up your minds, it is what it is. Most of my family is in your camp. Save a life — Teach your kids about gun safety or have someone competent do so, and encourage your friends to do the same. It’s insane that stop-drop-roll is taught in the event you catch yourself on fire, but politics in the northeast has made taboo safety instruction that could save a couple hundred kids lives a year. You are a massive hypocrite for keeping safety instruction out of schools.
@Mike Terrific points. The Commonwealth now puts the phone number for suicide hotlines on the LTC. Every gun shop I know has printed material about suicide prevention. J&J in Dedham actually has its sales staff tell every customer that if he or she feels suicidal, to call the shop directly and they will literally close and come to wherever you are and be with you until you’re safe.
Bravo MIke, well said. I agree with fig/you in regards to training being a relatively cheap and effective precaution in preventing “misuse” and or accident’s. You’re also correct in assuming you wont change anyone’s mind here. You most likely wont even be able to have a reasonable back and forth without some sort of personal attack forthcoming.
Its a shame really, educating and teaching children to respect and safely handle firearms is a huge part of the systemic failure in places like Newton. You had people who recently moved here saying things like “why do WE need a gun store in a place like Newton”. What does that even mean? Who’s this “we”?
I’ve mentioned it in multiple post’s already, NO CRIMES WERE COMMITTED WITH ANY GUN BOUGHT FROM E&J GUNS IN WEST NEWTON. Why would this shop garner anything more or less crime wise? To me, its like pushing for Paint Bar on Washington St to close because I don’t like art and may die if I swallow a paint brush.
I’d also like to commend the people running this Blog. It would be easy to cherry pick what stays and goes especially a topic like this in the location it’s manifesting itself in. Nothing will change without reasonable dialogue, that goes for anything. In the very least, some here may start to understand that every gun owner isn’t a knuckle dragging “gunfighter’ who leaves their firearm(s) lying around unattended.
I’m all for it. It is an American right to own a firearm legally. Why should a legal License to Carry law abiding citizen who lives in Newton have to travel to other cities just to purchase a firearm? The idea of not allowing a firearm store in a certain city because it doesn’t align with city “ideals or city message” is completely unamerican and against everything our country was built on. I’m happy more people are seeing the light and more people have bought firearms this past year since 1998.
A few thoughts from a concerned Newton resident.
1) What are the Newton values that a gun store conflicts with? I will not defend myself even if it costs my or someone else’s life? We “celebrated” Holocaust Day in Israel a few days ago – are we going back to be worried about straight lines to the trains rather than defending ourselves if needed?
2) Ans just so I understand, selling tobacco and liquor in Newton is in line with those vague Newton values?
3) Gun control should not mean not selling guns. It should mean taking guns from people that should not have them; and that is where the government fails. There are already 400 million registered guns in this country (yes, there are tens of million of unregistered guns, that no one can even track); are we going to take them all? If you want gun control, apply reasonable and effective measures, and don’t prevent gun ownership from law abiding citizens who want to defend themselves lawfully.
3) And yes, there are more gun owners in Newton than you would think, and there are more gun owners than republicans in Massachusetts. Wake up! Gun stores around the country are empty, products are flying off the shelves, and prices of guns and ammunition are at pick. Americans have been arming up since last year, presumably (I truly don’t know) a combination of COVID and the murder of George Floyd.
4) And how about tolerating a gun store in the name of “diversity”? A word this community flashes so much. Can you accept people with different views – or does diversity in Newton mean we want our diversity, not yours?
If guns aren’t in Newtons values, neither is the constitution. You have an issue with people you don’t know, buying things for themselves because you have an authoritarian value set. So, maybe authoritarianism is a Newton value.
I wrote a long post on this which got lost in the bowels of the internet apparently, so I will summarize a bit.
On guns and suicide, several of the posters above state the position that blaming guns for suicide isn’t fair, that a suicidal person will find another way. I understand the logic of that position, and I know it is often used to explain the higher rates of suicide in homes with guns.
Let me offer some additional thoughts, based off some discussions with mental health professionals and trying to help loved ones through some difficult times. I think many of us think of folks committing suicide as determined to do so, without self-doubt. But what I’ve learned is that for many folks (not all) going through suicidal ideation, suicidal thoughts come as a wave. They could already be depressed, they could be having a horrible day, they could experience a sudden event. Often they are self-medicating through alcohol, which can blur inhibitions and is a depressive drug. If it is possible to get a person past that initial wave of suicidal thoughts, to get them to call a help line, a loved one, or to be discovered after a suicidal attempt in a less lethal manner, ideally they can survive and get therapy. So yes, I think having a gun in a home can be an added factor to suicides, it provides instant means of action, it is obviously very effective, and it doesn’t provide someone another opportunity to get their heads above water. I’m not saying guns cause suicide. It is often hard for someone buying a gun to predict the mental state of their loved ones or themselves over time. I tell folks I know who own guns this as well, that if they are ever tempted to use it on themselves, to call me first. Call someone. Give yourself a chance to get better, no matter how dark things seem. Because lord knows once that trigger is pulled, that’s it.
As for Gun accidents, that is a whole separate thing. Guns should be respected and gun owners must be responsible. There are gun safes that allow for very quick response times. Gun should be stored properly, and gun owners need to learn how to use their gun. I agree with Mike 100%. If you do buy a gun, you need to do more than the state safety course. Take a training course from someone who can teach you to shoot, so you don’t fire the gun in fear or by accident when under stress.
As for guns and kids, we live in the US. There are guns everywhere. Even if you hate guns, you should be teaching your kids the basics of gun safety. Guns are not like in the movies. They aren’t toys, even if your toys look like them. Guns should never be pointed at anyone as a joke. If you see a gun in a house or outside, find an adult. Do not pick it up. If one of your friends picks it up, find an adult. Guns can have ammunition in a chamber even if you don’t realize it. Never pull a trigger on a gun even if you are told it is empty. Don’t play with ammunition. A responsible gun owner follows gun safety rules and doesn’t let someone untrained handle their gun. I’m sure there are more.
I realize this is probably not what folks want to hear, but you’d be surprised how many folks own guns in Newton and don’t talk about it. I’m sure some of your kids have been on playdates with in homes with guns. That’s why I’ve taught basic gun safety, even though I’ll never own a gun.
Mike and others, appreciate the posts. We might not agree on the store or on gun ownership, but I’d rather have a conversation than a shouting match.
Most deaths caused by guns are suicides.
Why not just assess a very high local Newton sales tax on weapons and ammo and then if the gun shop moves forward with opening here at least the tax revenues could do some good in the community?
I’ve lived in the deep south. Even the gun stores in staunchly 100% gun country are now posting literature on suicide and mental health. I think you are 100% right on the suicide front — but I obviously disagree on your conclusion RE the risks of opening a shop in Newton and keeping a gun in the home. Being aware of how gun ownership and depression intersect is wise for anyone.
Jojo, the profit margin on firearms sales is already low. Taxing the business out of existence doesn’t strike me as a great (or legal) plan.
As far as having a conversation, I find that most on the pro-gun side, at least in Massachusetts, are happy to have a dialogue. It’s the opposite position which is unwilling to talk. The fact that the social media groups opposing this man’s business have prohibited membership by any dissenters is pretty telling. The political leaders in the state also make it a point to ridicule and harass gun owners. Often, the Courts bend over backwards to appease them.
And just as ignorant are those that scream for their 2nd amendment rights on the basis for promoting a firearms industry and private arsenals of anti-government fanatics. No one has ever tried to take guns away. Do what you want but there needs to be protection from the obvious fanfics that seem to be coming out of the woodwork. Anyone that thinks they need an ar15 has other issues. Jmo and why won’t this get posted?
I never understood why we cant have a zero tolerance mandatory life sentence for anyone caught with an illegal gun.
If you own a gun without a permit, I assume its because you intend to use it for criminal purposes.
After this, i would feel comfortable with not wanting to own a gun for self defense
Most places rightfully don’t require “permits” to own guns. But criminals rarely get serious jail time for firearms offenses anyway. Just look how many prior firearm arrests gangbangers who ultimately get locked off for murder in Boston have. Typically at least one.
People own AR15s for a variety of purposes from hunting to sporting to self-defense. Something looking scary to someone who knows little about firearms is not grounds for its prohibition.
The idea that the firearms “industry” is some sort of large evil machine is a hilarious fallacy insofar as it relates to civilian ownership of firearms (as opposed to the very real military-industrial complex). As far as lobbying goes, 2A advocacy is perhaps the most democratic. Also dollar for dollar it’s pretty small as compared to many of the other top lobbying efforts. The NRA is evil only insofar as the leadership grossly misuses the primarily small contributions from their members.
You can care, not care, believe in it or not, but those who are ardent supporters of the 2nd Amendment are so on the basis of maintaining their rights as individuals to protect themselves and their families with firearms, and collectively for the population to pose a real threat to government.
Mike, honest question. Do you know anyone who hunts with an AR15? Maybe I’m dated in my knowledge, but back where I grew up if someone brought an AR15 to hunt we’d be very…surprised. I can say more, but I’m not trying to insult here.
AR15s never really made sense to me except for self-defense, and really mostly for soldiers.
Fig,
I’ve admired your thoughtfulness here on numerous occasions. But, you have outdone yourself with your comments on this thread.
Thank you for your wisdom and generous spirit.
AR-15s are pretty common varmint rifles. Mainly boar and coyote, and I know plenty who use them for such. In Massachusetts rifles aren’t permitted for deer, but generally speaking .223/5.56, which is what most AR-15s are chambered in, is not considered a sufficiently large caliber with which to kill a deer. Even for boar the cartridge has fallen out of favor to more boutique rounds like .300 blackout (basically a .223 casing necked up to fire a heavier but slower .30 cal bullet). But an AR or variant is probably going to be the go-to rifle for boar or coyote these days. The design is almost 70 years old now.
In states where deer are hunted with rifle (as opposed to MA which is shotgun and primitive black powder muzzle loaders only), heavier caliber bolt action rifles are typically what are used.
It’s actually a pretty solid self/home defense gun. People who know little of firearms like to be facetious about it, but if you spend any amount of time introducing people to firearms, you come to realize it’s a pretty easy gun to shoot reasonably accurately by a wide range of people given its modularity. Certainly a better choice than a shotgun. As far as it’s use for the military, the military “versions” have the capability to fire fully-automatically. These variants are issued to the armed forces as a personal weapon, but if you want to speak honestly about “weapons of war,” those would be the countless light, medium, heavy machineguns and various forms of delivering explosives that are employed. Not the the personal rifle (which remains distinct from an AR15), or the 9mm pistol which is also a standard issue military firearm.
How the h*ck do you kill a deer with a shot gun? That’s a bird gun. You’d have to be 10 feet away.
I’m not a hunter now but grew up hunting with my dad in central New York. Never heard of deer hunting with a shotgun. Sounds crazy to me. Plus, hardly a sport. Talk about filling something full of lead.
Anyways, if I wanted something to protect me from a tyrannical gubmint my 2nd amendment weapon of choice would be a grenade launcher, not a pea shooter AR 15. And why can’t I buy one?
“AR15s never really made sense to me except for self-defense, and really mostly for soldiers.”
AR15s aren’t military weapons. They’re made for civilians.
So many gun shamers…
Rick Frank you need to educate yourself. Shotguns can shoot buckshot or deer slugs and are very effective in home defense too.
So many comments about hunting and self defense. The 2nd is not limited to either and in fact it is for any reason. For those that keep on with the militia nonsense, this is Supreme Court settled law in the Heller case so time to let that go.
Jojo your idea is perhaps a good one to tax gun purchases. Surely you favor a tax on voting, tax on publishing articles, and tax on assembly/petitioning government as well.
Ok. A lot of different directions in this dissertation. Can someone explain something to me. EVERYONE seems knowledgeable in this area, or at least have an opinion. Can you tell me how does a person who wants to open this store seem to do all that’s legally required then gets denied at the eleventh hour because of a sudden public outcry ? I’ m not a proponent of guns. There are millions of them in this country which is basically, ridiculous. But they are here. No matter what I think. And more disturbing than this gun store is the fact that nobody at City Hall knew it was coming and the knee jerk reaction to be caught unaware was to slap a shut down order on the business ???? And now rush through some kind of City Ordinance that wasn’t there when this business first applied??? Sounds like perfect grounds for a lawsuit. And it’s just plain cowardly and wrong for City government to gang up on the prospective owners in this way
@W. Mahagan – Agreed
@Ray I stand or sit corrected. In my youth, my dad used a 30-06 for deer and a shotgun for birds. But I was just a kid and don’t hunt myself.
Regarding the second amendment, well I think it’s not 1790 anymore and the government has the civilians way out gunned. Which is why if you really wanted to bear arms, to protect yourself from a tyrannical government, you’d need the weapons the Taliban have in Afghanistan. After all, for 20 years they kept the US at a stalemate. The best you could hope for would be a stalemate because the government won’t just mow down the civilian population in the year 2021. It would make for bad publicity.
I’m surprised the people who “stormed” the capitol aren’t trying to make a second amendment case. After all, they were trying to stop what they thought was a tyrannical stealing of the presidency and they weren’t allowed to bring their guns. If the second amendment means anything, they would have been armed. But they weren’t so, I don’t know what good it is then.
@Rick Frank none of your opinions about the 2nd Amendment are relevant. It is part of the Constitution, has been clarified by the Supreme Court, and municipal governments should abide it. Sadly instead local officials pass unconstitutional legislation and then it takes years to unwind it in the Judicial system. This is counterproductive and a tremendous waste of resources; politics too common in the Commonwealth.
I look forward to the City Council being slapped down when they attempt to apply this zoning ex post facto. They should all be ashamed of themselves for pursuing such a bald-faced attack on a legal trade in the Commonwealth. We will all be better off if they drop it and learn to support industry instead of the virtue signaling they prioritize for Newton.
@Ray my opinions are relevant to the extent that they might influence others and the fact that me and my opinions vote.
That’s the best anyone can do, including you.
The second amendment should be abolished just like the eighteenth amendment was.
You are entitled to believe that, but it’s not going to happen. If it did, and any grab was made for firearms, you would have Civil War II.
Let’s imagine what “Civil War II” might look like. You’ve got one side, with the combined forces of Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and perhaps the Space Force. Against civilian militias with semi automatic rifles. The civilian militia would have to up their game by getting illegal ( well illegal now) weapons such as artillery, large caliber automatic weapons, and doing asymmetric warfare. So the US would turn into a failed state. It would be a stand-off, and either split the US along something like the Mason Dixon line, or the Mississippi. Excellent dystopian movie. Or perhaps another outcome would be a swift defeat of the militias by a fast response by an overwhelming force of the marine and army. Either way, in 2021 the second amendment doesn’t help much.
Certain entire states would split over the issue. Probably wouldn’t help that significant portions of all branches of the armed forces and law enforcement are sympathetic to the issue/from states that would come down on the side of succession.
The amendment isn’t for fighting a civil war, it’s for having an armed populace that could put up enough of a fight to be dangerous to the federal government. The American population, at present, has the ability to wage a crippling insurgency against the federal government. Hopefully it’s never needed. Indeed I think a more fair question to ask is whether the people actually ever would step up, despite having an ability to do so. Hopefully there is never a reason for that in my lifetime. I think the last example where the people failed to act but should have would have been the Japanese Internment.
The more “useful” purpose for firearms ownership is for personal/family protection — and SCOTUS has held that this is in fact a protected use. I’m thinking logically it should expand beyond the home, and also should cover these so-called “assault weapons” which are functionally no different than guns proposed legislation seeks to exempt.
@Rick Frank
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-the-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used
Got no issues with ownership and teaching proper handling of firearms – great skill to have. But the rules for purchasing a gun are far too lax and the fewer firearms in the community the better. Bottom line, we certainly don’t need a gun shop here.
Amusing that the people who want the gun store here frequently cite how easy it is to buy them elsewhere, very nearby. So go there.
Washington Street turning into a Florida strip mall with liquor store, dispensary and gun shop next to one another? Embarrassing and gross.
Will also just leave this here…
I know this is hard to read, but it’s important: The shooter who murdered my beautiful butterfly Dylan carried an AR-15 assault-style weapon into Sandy Hook Elementary.
In approximately four minutes, he shot 154 bullets, killing 20 children and six educators. Five of those bullets hit Dylan, and in an instant, my little boy was gone.
But in the time it took the shooter to reload, 11 children were able to escape. If the sale of military-style assault weapons had been prohibited, just think how many more children could have survived. Perhaps Dylan would still be alive today. Perhaps more people would have escaped from the horrific mass shootings in Parkland, Boulder and so many other communities.
That’s why I’m trying to gather 100,000 petition signatures demanding Congress make it illegal to purchase an assault weapon. But we’re still several thousand signatures short of our goal, and it looks like you haven’t signed yet. So please, sign the petition right now to help save lives.
– Nicole Hockley (Dylan’s mom)
We cannot wait for another horrific tragedy like Sandy Hook, Parkland or Boulder to do something. Tell Congress to stop assault weapon sales now!
@DSJ a note to Dylan’s mom:
Indeed it is tragic that your child’s, and others’, futures were ended due to a maniacal murderer. There is nothing that can change that reality. My heart goes out to everyone who suffered such hardships.
The murderer broke numerous laws when he stepped into Sandy Hook Elementary that day. While laws are relatively easy to write, they simply do not prevent tragedy. Creating legislation makes one feel better but has no guaranteed impact on incidents such as these. We have to ask ourselves, would we feel better if at the time of Sandy Hook, ARs were banned? How would we feel knowing that the laws had no impact. Think now, all those laws broken on the sad day in 2012. Do we believe just this one more law will prevent another incident.
Almost 5 years ago to the day 86 people were killed in Paris being run down by a heavy truck. Should heavy trucks be banned? Would such a ban prevent a killer from utilizing another vehicle to commit the same crime? Or an airplane?
If we want change we have to be honest with ourselves about what historically has worked and what doesn’t. And what is Constitutional. Until we do that we are consuming time and money without any change and dividing ourselves in the process. Not a good way to solve a problem.
All these tragedies are indeed tragedies… But, as a parent, I’ll keep my AR15s.
A liquor store, pot shop, and gun store? Sounds like a great place for free Americans to shop. I’d bet the majority of adults in Newton drink, and a good chunk of them at the very least have smoked pot at one point, if they don’t to this day. A store that sells items that range in price from the high-hundreds to the thousands is far from “Florida strip mall.” But I’d expect that comment from someone who so clearly knows nothing about firearms.
Newton is the Snowflake City .. a lot of pretentious limousine liberals who whine about leaf blowers, Columbus Day, and even Firefighter memorial flags.. Drama Queens
My issue with this store doesn’t relate to Second Amendment rights. My concern is where guns are sold, and in my opinion, the areas around schools, childcare centers, shelters, afterschool programs, parks, and athletic fields are not appropriate places for these stores. Just because the city didn’t anticipate this particular situation in the past is no reason to permit a gun store to open in this location in the future.
I don’t know how many ways to say that schools don’t feel safe anymore, and haven’t for 22 years. Newton children are exposed to lockdown drills and lockdowns and spend their days in tightly locked buildings. Before Columbine, schools had polling places in them, parents could walk into schools without checking in at the office, front doors were open, unannounced firedrillls – because it never crossed anyone’s mind that a school might not be a safe place from intruders with guns. Children have a right to feel safe in school and their parents have a right to feel confident that their child’s school or childcare center is safe. Having this store in a place that children walk past on their way to school just adds to the sense of danger. Zoning possible locations without restrictions on distance from places where children gather for school or recreation makes no sense whatsoever.
Before I leave I’m going to make a very old-fashioned suggestion to dealing with dangerous situations – dial 911. In addition, when I feel I’m in an unsafe situation, I dial 911 then take out my phone and begin videoing the incident. The one time I did this, the incident ended fast – the person harassing me took off in a flash. I am fully aware that calling 911 is a point of privilege, but for many, it is a solution, and a better one than shooting a person and ruining lives in the process.
First of all, your assertion that a gun shop shouldn’t be located near schools is baseless. Having firearms lawfully sold “near” a school has zero impact on school safety.
As far as calling 911, I don’t think anyone is advocating not utilizing the police. I know most people in Newton don’t associate with law enforcement, and probably don’t even know anyone in law enforcement, but I’ve yet to meet a cop who doesn’t have an accessible firearm in their home to protect their family.
We will agree to disagree. IMO gun stores shouldn’t be near schools. In your opinion, it doesn’t matter. Your opinion isn’t a fact.
In my opinion,Pot shops should not be near schools either