The Save Nonantum story seems to be fairly straightforward. It’s a pointed attack on the twenty-two members of the City Council who voted to rename Columbus Day Indigenous Peoples Day. And, it’s a seemingly exaggerated and vague, if possibly sincere, concern that the November resolution represents a threat to treasured village traditions.
What am I missing?
Here’s the GoFundMe text.
Friends, Nonantum needs you…. “the Lake” is under attack by a group of radical politician’s [sic] who want to stop our traditions and end our culture
Instead of respecting our differences, they claim our traditions are offensive. They want an end to all the Italian colors and flags in our neighborhood. They have already force the cancelation of celebrations of being an Italian American. If we allow them to continue they will end our festival, our procession of saints in our streets and even put an end to our Santa!
100% of funds raised will be used to preserve the Nonantum traditions and culture. That includes supporting political candidates who are committed to that mission, and opposing those who are not.
There is only one group of radical politicians that this fiercely proud and disproportionately Italian-American community could be referring to: the city councilors who voted to rename Columbus Day. (Lenny Gentile and the late Jay Ciccone cast the two votes against.)
While they could be more explicit, the web site similarly supports the conclusion nicely summed up by @NewtonianD on Twitter:
Save Nonantum [is about] a community pissed off that the Newton City Council voted 22-2 to take Christopher Columbus Day away.
The only way this is about any specific candidates in the two races to replace our new US Rep Jake Auchincloss or Councilor Ciccone is if any of the five candidates have publicly (or privately) said that they either would have voted with Councilors Gentile and Ciccone, which would make them the logical recipients of the Save Nonantum support, or that they have any intention of ending any of Nonantum’s terrific traditions, which would logically make them the targets of Save Nonantum’s attacks.
Each of the five candidates should express clearly how they would have voted on the resolution to change the holiday to Indigenous Peoples Day and what, if any plans, they have to limit or end Nonantum traditions. (I have reached out to all five campaigns and will update here with answers.
This just shows that when setting up a website/fundraising campaign you need to be clear about your objectives and about who you are. The people who set up the site and who commented all over Facebook seemed to think that their points/goals were clear. They were/are not. They did themselves no favors by being vague, other than, I suppose, getting so many people talking about their issues.
This group could not have possibly mismanaged this “campaign” any worse. From inarticulate text to vague attacks to being unclear about where the funds would go, I can’t imagine that they could have done a worse job.
And on a personal note, as a fan of the Nonantum traditions and an Italian-American, the whole thing feels very icky to me. I honestly didn’t even know that people cared about Columbus Day so much.
So much about Italian & Italian American culture is worth celebrating, including the country itself, the amazing cuisine, arts, music, scientific contributions, architecture, and so many outstanding individuals…
But not Columbus.
@Nathan,
Frankly the holiday really isn’t about celebrating Columbus, as I have learned over the past couple of years. Rather, it was a response to a horrible lynching of 11 Sicilian Americans on March 14, 1891 in New Orleans. Apparently it took place after 9 men were acquitted of the murder of the New Orleans police chief, though two of the victims were not even defendants. If you know any history of the discovery of baking powder, you’ll also know the history of one Eben Norton Hortsford who, along with many of his Brahmin friends, was so distressed by the Italians and Irish emigrating to America in the latter part of the 19th century that he spent a fair sum of his considerable wealth trying to establish that it was Vikings, and not Italians, who not only discovered but established the first settlement here in America in a place he called Vineland (Cambridge, Massachusetts). On a lonely stretch of sidewalk in Cambridge, you can find a lonely plaque dedicated as the location of the first home built in “Vineland” by the Vikings.
So – it’s important to look behind the “Columbus Day” celebration of a guy from Genoa who sailed at the behest of the Spanish monarchy – and view the day as representative of the contributions of Italians and Sicilians (yes, I distinguish them – as I’m Sicilian and that’s a whole other story) to the building of America. Columbus, I think to many people who share my heritage, is but one small piece of a larger American story – one which includes hardship and struggle – not unlike the struggles of many immigrant populations.
@Sean,
Your remark that “the GoFundMe campaign is likely in violation of state election-financing law”. False is really a breathtaking misstatement of the law. There is no law in Massachusetts that prohibits PAC’s from using Go Fund Me to solicit contributions. Go Fund Me requires groups to adhere to Federal or local election rules and laws. The relevant statute, as set forth in G.L. ch. 55 section 2(1), is quite clear as to what information the PAC is required to collect from contributors and when. You don’t actually KNOW that they aren’t collecting that information from contributors, and your suggestion that they are engaging in an illegality is really a bit much – especially from someone trained in the law. I expect such remarks from lay people; not lawyers.
Lisa,
Over $3,000 in anonymous portends some issues, but fair point. Regardless, it’s not a central issue. I’ve removed the text.
@Sean I’m surprised to see another post on this topic.
The clarity of message feedback is fair.
That said, the first issue of concern raised by Save Nonantum is, “They want an end to all the Italian colors and flags in our neighborhood.” The references to the ‘festival’, ‘procession of saints’ and ‘Santa’ that follow read as hypotheticals (or predictions).
You mention the City Council but several readers of @Chuck’s initial post on this topic, myself included, found it curious that Bryan Barash issued a strong denial for questions not asked just after it went live – https://village14.com/2021/02/11/new-pac-emerges-to-save-nonantum/
Bryan also tweeted accusations related to this topic were false soon after his V14 comment – https://twitter.com/bryanbarash/status/1360037678679482368?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Asking all the candidates may be worthwhile, but the question as to why Bryan felt the need to respond so fast when the Save Nonantum site and the V14 post above make no mention of him remains open.
Setting up a PAC is no small task so clearly some in the Nonantum community feel somebody is opposed to the display of Italian tricolors on streets and fire hydrants. Since Bryan was the only Council candidate or City Councilor to respond a question your post raises for me is whether Bryan’s support for the Italian flags and colors adorning Nonantum is a longstanding position OR one recently arrived at because his prior comments on this topic are generating concern?
@Lisa
Horsford eventually concluded that “Vineland” and “Norumbega” (the lost settlement of the Vikings) were one and the same and not in Cambridge but in Newton and Weston. Norumbega Tower on the Weston side of the river commemorates this “history”.
Anybody who has done the work understands that this “history” is grounded in anti-Italian racism…and yet nobody (that I know of) has called for the removal of Viking symbolism from Auburndale or Weston.
@Richard Heald – What’s with the vague innuendo?
Bryan Barash made a clear statement vis-a-vis Nonantum and Italian culture in general. If you or others have heard or read statements by him that contradict that, by all means post them. Otherwise this just seems like a weird whispering campaign based on nothing.
Lisa, thank you for sharing that. Italian immigrants were treated so horribly. And I take your distinction regarding the Sicilian experience. Italian & Sicilian Americans truly understand injustice and discrimination from experience.
I can understand how historical precedent of discovery is important, but in the case of Columbus it’s one-upping on colonial genocide. The unfortunate truth for all of us who are not indigenous is that we are settlers on stolen land, names of which include the very village, Nonantum, that this GoFundMe purports to save.
If anyone in Newton or elsewhere tries to promote Leif Erickson Day (Oct 9), rest assured it will meet with the same concerns.
@Donald Ross-
Thank you, but I’m very familiar with Norumbega tower as well. I have a documentary on this subject that we hope to submit to film festivals (once they resume). And I’ll be happy to find out where in Cambridge you can see that plaque if you’re interested! For fun, you might explore the Viking statue on Commonwealth Avenue just past Fensgate East in Boston.
@Nathan – thank you. I appreciate your thoughtful reply. Yes, Columbus- and the early settlers in Plimouth – were no friends to the indigenous population. I do not celebrate Thanksgiving without also recognizing that it is a day of mourning to the First People. I also recognize that untold First People were wiped out in both North and South America by the introduction of diseases from “the Old World” brought by exploration.
As for the Vikings, there are actually more than a few tributes to them in Boston (see reference to Viking statue above) … but I can’t give away too many of our documentary gems.
“Anonymous” is shown on the Go Fund Me web site for certain people but the organizer of the campaign can always see who donates.
You owe them an apology.
https://support.gofundme.com/hc/en-us/articles/203687114-Donating-Anonymously-
I’ve used GoFundMe for Boston Marathon fundraising. Anonymous just means the donor chose not have their name listed publicly. Similarly you can usually ask that the amount not be shown. On the back end, the recipient can see the full details (name, address, amount).
From my understanding of this entire situation, on the pac website no names were placed. As reactions to the website people got very defensive, and in my opinion, seemed to show at least some of their intentions. So to think that the website was created for Columbus is absurd. The way people reacted to the website directly shows that people are concerned about the future status of their said traditions. That was stated in the pac website. So I would say it’s not right to push the claim it’s all about Columbus because if you have followed the situation it clearly is not. As for the legality of the website, if it is illegal, and people have been reporting it for almost a week now, don’t you think it would have been forced to get taken down by now. A lot of ridiculous narratives have been pushed to almost brainwash people who do not know exactly what they’re talking about, meanwhile some Are just nervous for part of their life that clearly looks like it’s going to be under attack.
I think I know where I stand.
Are you really trying to make this neighborhood community group made up of many life long community volunteers, police and fire fighters, nurses, teachers, long time city support staff, to be the bad guys?
Most of the people that I see behind this PAC have been long time volunteers and contributing families in Newton. Their names are on Veteran and service plaques all over town! They love Newton!
The Festa, Santa Claus park … they have done and continue to do so much to bring joy and fun to our city … my children looked forward to all of these events, including this groups’ HUGE contribution to the big city celebrations like Memorial Day and July 4th.
We are so lucky to have them and if they feel the fabric of their heritage and community is being threatened, the least we can do is listen and support them!
Greer,
Your comment reads an awful lot like a defense of the kind of far-right hate we’ve seen over the last four years: “We need to pay attention to the feelings of the people who feel threatened, even if they are repeating lies.”
The Save Nonantum GoFundMe page makes some outrageous claims and stirs up passions along some very ugly lines. To call people radicals — another play out of the far right-wing playbook — and accuse nameless people of having current intentions to cancel religious celebrations is very serious stuff. The Save Nonantum leaders — Kevin Riffe, Eric Busa, Teresa Sauro, Charles Proia, James Pellegrini, Anthony Pellegrini Jr, Lisa Difelice, Mairead Devlin, and Fran Yerardi — need to spell out specifically who they are accusing and what specifically those people have done.
Otherwise, they should take down the site and disband the PAC.
I suspect that, if there were concrete threats to Nonantum’s traditions, the site would not be so vague.
Mostly, though, I hope you’ll agree that the heated rhetoric of the GoFundMe page is not appropriate to a municipal election and that anyone who uses that kind of rhetoric should be held accountable, even if they have previously done service to the community.
So I take that as a yes.
I feel fairly confident that I have had a solid reputation as being rather moderate, often to the disappointment of extremist groups on all sides :-).
Sean, you and I have certainly had our differences too but we have always managed to still have a civil conversation.
I must admit, the immediate barrage of attacks on this group that has, as you confirmed, not actually named anyone as a specific target seems a bit self incriminating, doesn’t it? Was something implied and deliberately not concrete that was attempting to bully these people, but cleverly careful enough to just avoid actual accusation?
I don’t know. But, I used to be bullied as a child and I learned that this skirting the spirit of the rules were tactics used to try and intimidate me but “technically” kept my abusers out of trouble. My only recourse was to stand up for myself. Perhaps this is what this group is doing. If you feel their message isn’t clear, why not ask questions?
Whoa!!
Here we go…
That didn’t take long..
I’ve been very good about staying away from the V14 cesspool this year.
Not having the toxic Reibman & Roche around has made a huge difference. I have actually been enjoying Jerry Reilly’s civil stewardship of this forum. Well done. Thank you. So far so good. A real good way to start a new era. Not as dynamic, but not the ever present cancer that eats away at the unity of a community like the old version.
I couldn’t agree with you more Greer.
I lived in Nonantum on Bridge, Pearl,
& West Streets after college. I miss the Lake and all it’s down to earth unpretentious people. I wish like heck that “Fats” Pellegrini was alive to weigh in on this. The Pellegrinis,
Yerardis & Busas, as well as the others have contributed to this city in any number of private & public ways for many years. Sean doesn’t live in or anywhere near the Lake, so excuse his ignorance. The contempt and hatred that some people on the south side of Newton like Sean Roche have for Middle and working class Democrats living in Nonantum and other parts of the city, actually throughout this country, must be a reflection of the hatred that they have for themselves. An awful way to live.
@Sean Roche-
You are as phony as the day is long.
Speaking of accountability, you have repeatedly used this forum to claim that development/housing in Newton is infected with systemic racism for years. You have also inferred directly, or indirectly that some users of this forum are racists. You have gone out of your way to travel to public forums to call other people racists. That’s a heavy lift for a privileged white guy living in Newton Center in this day and age. I have asked what you personally are doing to integrate your all white neighborhood and have been met with silence.
How shall we hold you “accountable” for your hateful “rhetoric”. Please do tell….
Newton is about to have a special election with an opportunity to elect the only person of color to a city council of 24 that represents the close to 100,000 citizens in this city. Read that again, there is not one person of color representing the nearly 100,000 citizens of this city, but our we are dedicated to “equity, equality & diversity” … What a crock!
Just yesterday I received an expensive,
lavish 4 page, full color, 8 x 11 inch political flier promoting Bryan Barash, a white lawyer who works at the state house who wants to join the other white lawyer on the city council working at the state house-Josh Krintzman.
As a long time follower of city politics
and former candidate, I always enjoy reading the names of a candidates
supporters. This is where you find out if the public rhetoric matches the private voting and financing habits of people funding candidates.
Two thirds of the way through the list of supporters of Bryan Barash is the name Sean Roche. The white guy calling others racists is voting for the white guy.
You are as phony as the day is long
@Sean Roche
I can’t comment too specifically on the PAC mechanics as I’m not involved with it, but to the extent its sponsors are criticized here as poorly organized or bad communicators, I have sympathy for them as regular citizens who aren’t slick or experienced political operatives, but are trying to have their voices heard. We’re living in a time of sharp revisionism and reassessment of the proper role of longstanding institutions and traditions in our society. While that process is important and progress is needed on many fronts, unfortunately many of its self-appointed arbiters seem to revel in calling others ignorant, unenlightened, and worse.
I don’t think it’s crazy for the residents of Nonantum to worry what traditions are next on the municipal chopping block. Similarly, the city council candidate who trumpets the Columbus Day change to IDG as one of his accomplishments shouldn’t act shocked when people ask him his views on other traditions. His Goodness Gracious I Never Thought I’d Be Asked That! reply on the other thread is a bit tone deaf. More than fair question.
PS – from a southsider, Paul G.
unfortunately, contributing to a PAC is probably one of the few ways to voice your disagreement without fear of being “cancelled”.
cancel culture is toxic
Speaking of outrageous claims, how about this one: “the GoFundMe campaign is likely in violation of state election-financing law.” In case readers haven’t been following this thread closely, that line was in the original post by Sean. He removed it when it was called into question. That may help explain his comment above about what exactly was removed.
I just keep coming back to this, from the Save Nonantum page: “radical politicians who want to end our traditions and eliminate our culture.”
That comes across as just a *little* inflammatory. Again, without anyone from this PAC providing specifics, the rest of Newton is left to believe that there is ethnic cleansing going on. I’m waiting for details, because I support Nonantum and its traditions and culture, but have a hard time believing that there are politicians in this city who want to wipe them off the map.
@Adam B-
I’m on the South side myself.
As i said “some” people on the South
side, not all, seem to have a real problem co-existing with anyone not deemed to have their pedigree, political views, education, or resume bona fides.
And yes, as a regular citizen new to
“community organizing”, or what ever else activism is called these days,
creating PACS, getting out the vote etc takes time and involves a learning curve to get good at. I agree with your entire post.
Call me a conspiracy theorist,
tin hat wearer etc, but considering that
the fire station flag was cancelled on Crafts St and Columbus Day was cancelled, I think this group is wise to lay down a marker – create a PAC – to
let agitators know that they won’t have their community cancelled without a fight. Never underestimate or disrespect a sleeping bear when you kick it.
@David Brigham-
When a long time Democrat political activist like
Sean Roche – tries to cancel a PAC-
without clarification or explanation, you are a fool if you don’t take the threat seriously.
If I were a member of the Nonantum
PAC – I would keep a good lawyer nearby. The law is a language that people like Roche understand well.
Political agitators understand and respect their opponents and the stakes involved much better when their opponents are lawyered up.
Ive always felt like it’s a good idea to have a nice level playing field.
Paul,
Sorry to disappoint you, but, I’m going to agree with you.
This appears to be a referendum on Columbus Day and frustration with the current city councilors who voted for changing the name of the holiday. But, that’s not what Save Nonantum is saying and it creates confusion.
As I wrote in the post, if I were an Italian-American living in Nonantum, I might be sincerely frustrated with the changing of Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples Day. I don’t happen to agree with them, but I certainly understand where they are coming from. The elevation of Columbus Day to a national holiday arose out of a period of intense discrimination against Italian-Americans.
A hundred or so years later, with growing awareness that celebrating Columbus Day erases or cancels others, the larger community has decided that it’s time to change the holiday. One can both be in favor of the name change and also be understanding of the disappointment that folks in the Lake must feel.
If the folks in the Lake want to make this election and the next election a referendum on Columbus Day, by all means, they should.
But, I think it’s fair to ask that they be explicit about what they are upset with and who they are upset with and why they think that other traditions are threatened.
I want to give the Save Nonantum folks the benefit of the doubt, but the way the Go Fund Me page is framed, it reads more like fear-mongering than a sincere desire to have their argument heard on the merits. Fortunately, it’s something that they can easily cure. They just need to be explicit. And, avoid using terms like “radical politicians” to refer to people who sincerely have different views.
Dan,
Thank you for noting how I can be responsive to constructive criticism. Lisa made a good point. She quoted what I had written, so there’s a record of it. And, because she made a good point, I edited it out from the post.
By the way, if memory serves me, this is not the first time I’ve written something that Lisa has taken issue with and I’ve acknowledged that she’s right. Nor, I suspect, will it be the last.
Paul,
Kudos to you for taking on Sean directly and by name. Dismissing people’s legitimate concerns and labeling them “far right” is really despicable. Throwing around unfounded accusations of racism is grotesque. The first time he or any of the other white male members of the Newton woke brigade actually personally sacrifice anything in service to this cause will no doubt be the first time they personally sacrifice anything period.
Craig,
If I was unclear, my apologies. I disagree with the folks in the Lake about Columbus Day. But, it’s complicated. I get it. We can agree to disagree.
My concern is with the language they’ve used, which is very much like recent language from the far-right. Historically, similarly vague statements meant to arouse fear have been used by the radical left, too.
My request, if Save Nonantum wants to have a discussion about Columbus Day and whether the city is going to step in and stop their annual traditions, I hope that they stop using terms like “radical politicians” and “culture under attack” and more concretely explain why they think that the change from Columbus Day means that someone’s out to end Santa in
PellegriniMagni-Coletti Park.Paul, what does it actually mean to “cancel” a PAC? You realize there are heck of a lot of PACs about every issue under the sun. right? Unless Sean has magical powers, there is no such thing as cancelling the PAC. The PAC has to follow the rules laid out by our government. The rules are actually really not that hard. You need to collect information, and make reports. There are limits to how much you can raise from individuals and other entities. Save Nonantum’s chose GoFundMe as a fundraising mechanism, which is challenging unless you collect supplementary information from larger doners. It isn’t illegal I believe UNLESS they don’t file the paperwork, and UNLESS they don’t gather the information. Sounds like Lisa is all over this, and that Sean withdrew his statement that it is illegal.
I’ll post later about the actual issue at hand, but I didn’t want Save Nonantum folks to misunderstand. They collect the right information, they report that information, they follow the PAC rules which aren’t that hard to follow if they are organized, should be all good. There are some good websites on this.
Where folks mess up is that they don’t follow through. The election ends, they don’t gather the information, they don’t report the information, they get in trouble. That doesn’t make them illegal, and it doesn’t mean they were treated unfairly. It just means they need to follow the same rules as the other thousands of PACs out there. Being small and local doesn’t exempt them, but again, sounds like they are all over this.
@Sean
You artfully avoided most of my post.
It wasn’t about Columbus Day.
You need to explain how you are going to be held accountable for
your years of race baiting..
@fignewtonville-
What type of person takes the time and energy to challenge a PAC?
Think about that for a second.
Do really think Roche is concerned about the legality here?
It’s about silencing the voices in that PAC and intimidating them. Nothing more and nothing less.
Do you think Sean Roche would be challenging the legality of a PAC he agreed with?
I don’t think so…
I’m not sure if Roche is a lawyer,
but i think the Nonatum PAC should keep a lawyer handy to deal with any other mischief makers.
It would be terrific if we could take the temperature down in this thread a bit.
So I’m perfectly fine with any community forming a PAC, and I love Nonantum and its traditions. No issue there at all, and this type of fundraising to support its community is in a long tradition of Nonantum (I’ve heard the stories of some of the residents of Nonantum collecting on behalf of folks in need (Fats buckets, if I’m remembering correctly from the story I was told, forgive me if I got it wrong), it is clearly a very tight-knit community.
And I completely understand why this conversation has quickly devolved into a left vs right debate. We have the usual posters on each side of every political divide here already, throwing verbal bombs. I mean “radical politicians” was in the headline of the PAC, there is a special election coming up, some of the candidates are clearly very progressive. And it is, after all, a PAC, meant to delve into politics on a particular side. I’m fine with that, and I’m fine with the progressive candidates and their supporters responding to the wider community regarding the issues in question. Hard for them not to feel challenged based on the wording on the website and some of the posts of the supporters in the other thread.
Where I disagree with Save Nonantum is the following:
“Instead of respecting our differences, they claim our traditions are offensive. They want an end to all the Italian colors and flags in our neighborhood. They have already force the cancelation of celebrations of being an Italian American. If we allow them to continue they will end our festival, our procession of saints in our streets and even put an end to our Santa!”
I don’t know of any politician seeking to end “all the Italian colors and flags in our neighborhood”. Perhaps this is the thin red line flag issue write large. But do folks have any proof or examples about Italian flag shaming? Because I think the vast majority of Newton folks would not agree with that, and frankly I’m having trouble believing it is occurring. Any example would be helpful here.
Forcing the cancellation of celebrations of being an Italian American: Perhaps this is about the changing of the name of Columbus Day. I can see why that would be a passionate issue for Italian Americans, as that day is more a Italian heritage appreciate day to that community. But does renaming it mean the Nonantum celebrations were cancelled? Nonatum’s community should be free to throw any type of celebration it wants on that day, it just isn’t the govt sanctioned event it once was. Did anyone try to cancel a Columbus Day event in Nonantum? Again, I’d like to know if that happened.
“If we allow them to continue, they will end our festival, our procession of saints in our streets and even put an end to our Santa!”: Yeah, that’s the big one. I can see that if Nonantum feels that the wider community isn’t respecting their beliefs and community (and with condos and other changes) that they might feel under threat. But I can’t see anyone, left or right, seeking to change or limit three of the best known and most loved events in Newton. I mean this isn’t my direct community, and I’ve got these events on my calendar to do post-Covid. I realize folks make statements about cancelling Christmas and mean it in the same light, but looking at it from the outsider’s perspective, it is hard not to be bewildered by that statement.
So I think that last statement was a bit of fear-mongering, which is unfortunate in my view. And I’m not surprised folks outside Nonantum called out the PAC folks on the phrasing, since to us outsiders it seems impossible that this last bit could ever come to pass. Maybe it was a way to push poll the passions of folks in a tight knit community to give money. Also entirely possible that the folks who put together the PAC really believe those traditions are next. More than one thing can be true as I always say.
I think in an ideal world there would be a conversation about this outside of the political process. Maybe someone in the mayors office could sit down with the folks who put together the PAC and talk to them about their concerns. So I’m guess I’m on the same page as Greer above regarding wanting to *listen* to what the PAC folks have to say. But while I respect what many of them do for Newton as Greer says, I’d like to know a bit more about the substance of their complaints before I support their PAC. And to isn’t bullying or unfair to ask them for more information besides the very bare bones info on their website. Surely that is enough to gather their supporters, but I don’t think it is enough to change folks to their points of view.
Just my 2 cents.
sean:
santa is in magni-coletti park
then again all out italo parks
look alike to you!!!!!!!
Joe,
Thank you for pointing out my mistake. I truly regret it. (And, I deserve the inference.)
I’ve corrected it.
Paul Green:
I don’t think Sean has any control over the PAC good or bad. The most you can do is file a complaint. My understanding of PACS (which is limited!) is that the govt does require the reporting and the information, and they check it. Sean has nothing to do with that. I think you are overestimating the importance of Sean in the grand scheme of PAC maintenance.
They should keep the paperwork in good order though. Every PAC should. It is very difficult to collect after the fact. That’s a bad situation, especially for volunteers. But honestly with most folks giving $100 or less, they really should be fine with a small amount of effort.
I don’t really understand why they didn’t just push supporters to fund John Oliver, but that’s just me.
that’s our
sorry
@SeanRoche-
….And I hope people like yourself
stop blindly calling people who disagree with your housing and other ideas racists.
You need to own this, apologize,
and be done with it for good or it will become part of your legacy.
.
Trump is long gone buddy.
You’re the last person who should
be instructing anyone how to use language.
Joe Rizza:
Don’t hate me, but for years in my family we referred to the Santa as “the big Santa by the Dunkin”, or the “Donut Santa”. It took me years to know the name of the park.
Also, I told my kids that’s how that Santa got so big, he ate all the leftover donuts.
I’m rather ashamed. But hopefully someone is smiling at the image and not ready to pelt me with leftover baked goods.
@Sean Roche
Please stop posting on V14. Your posts raise the temperature, and add little to the dialogue.
Conflating this with recent actions by the far-right is inflammatory and not accurate.
I have no dog in this fight, but cringe when I see a post by you. The site is worse off for it.
Please stop posting– you have commented enough on this thread. Let others have a voice, yours is suffocating at this point.
@fig I think you outline what I find frustrating in this whole debate. But when you say that you’d want to know the substance of their complaints, I’ve seen that attempted on other forums only to be left with more questions. Answers from people who appear to either be organizers or those close to them come back with responses like “they know who they are,” or “if you want to know the names, DM me.” In a public debate like this, that’s just not acceptable. If you’re going to raise money on an idea that some person or group is threatening change that you, or your neighbors, think runs counter to their interests, then name those so that we all understand the issue at hand. So far, no one has been willing to do that, despite being asked several times.
Save Nonantum has used the term “radical” to describe some unnamed candidates or elected officials. Interestingly enough, texts and emails from people in this city opposed to Bryan and Maddy have used the same term to describe them. So, without other information, I would have to guess they’re all talking about the same people. If they’re not, then hopefully they’ll provide some clarity.
@Sean. “Getting Save Nonatum Right” should have been penned by someone from the Save Nonantum group. Not you. As a liberal, you should know as much. Marginalized groups don’t want people with platforms to speak for them. They want their voices amplified by those who hold the power. But you know that and you still spoke for them. And then you took it further and you compared them to the far right and named them here one by one. Greer had it right. You’re a bully. By the way, where is that earlier version of your post where you identified each member of the Nonantum group. Where on their website did they say they’re trying to keep the wrong element out? The far right is trying to “Make America Great Again” with their racism, their rejection of gay marriage, their rejection of trans rights, their rejection of science and their misogyny. It appears at first glance that perhaps your Nonantum neighbors may have a veiled criticism of your preferred candidate in a special election so you immediately compare them to people who tried to overthrow our government because they rejected a fair election? (and yes, I have read the Facebook group, and yes there are some who did compare that website to those who stormed the capitol on January 6th) Bryan Barash didn’t like what he read in that website and revealed himself when he wrote a reflexive, condescending response explaining in language that even a 5 year old could understand that he’d never be capable of whatever they’re accusing him of. That’s who he is by the way. Nonantum knows. They collected almost $20,000 in support. Perhaps, just perhaps, they know something you don’t know. And maybe they didn’t write in way you’d understand, but it’s up to you to understand – not up to them to explain it to you. Who says they’re wrong? They’re tax payers, community members and so far, they haven’t asked for anything harmful that I can see. They may have a point, LET’S ASK THEM. They deserve that much. They’re not holding KKK rallies. They’re trying to preserve a community they perceive is under attack. Don’t ask the candidates how they would have voted. Ask the Save Nonantum group what their goal is.
Casey,
You are right. Nonantum Saves should speak for themselves. That’s why I quoted their message straight from the Go Fund Me page.
You are also right that we should just ask them. People here on V14, on Facebook, on Nextdoor all have the same questions. That’s why I wrote: “What am I missing?”
Unfortunately, the Save Nonantum folks are just not answering any questions.
Here’s what Chuck Proia wrote on Facebook in response to questions: If you don’t know, you will never understand cause you have not lived it.
You wrote, “Perhaps, just perhaps, they know something you don’t know.”
Exactly.
They know the answers to:
* Who are the radical politicians?
* Why do the Nonantum folks think their culture is being cancelled?
Are these unfair questions?
You purposefully missed my point. This entire post where you clarified and got Nonantum right shouldn’t have been written by you. It should have been written by someone else or not been written at all. You could have chosen to write this piece a number of different ways but you fail to see how offensive this was. It’s the title that’s offensive.
How nice for you that you get to delete and edit without calling out the fact that you do so. Where’s the inflammatory text where you identified Nonantum neighbors by name and compared them to right wing bigots?
I am a liberal. If I wasn’t, I’d guess it would be very uncomfortable for me to live in this town. However I’m liberal enough that I am accepting of all. Can you say that? Sounds to me like you cannot. Chuck Proia may not be as eloquent a writer as you and say Bryan or Maddie. Who cares?I’m sure he knows 1000 things that I don’t know and I respect and admire him for that. A quick Google search shows me that he’s a firefighter. He knows plenty I don’t know. If you were in danger, you’d ask him before asking me for help. Ask him to guest post here. Ask the Nonantum people to guest post. Don’t speak for them.
Casey,
About the post title, point taken. The title made more sense with an earlier, unpublished draft. I’d change it, but I think people would, fairly, say I was being weaselly if I changed it now.
First of all, thank you Village14 for informing me about this opportunity to show solidarity with my Italian friends. Once I’ve learned about it, I made a contribution right away. From my former landlord to my barbers and neighbors, all of them I’ve happened to know, are warm and welcoming people who helped me a lot in my first years in Newton. I consider them friends and won’t question their motives when they request help.
Here is my (obviously limited) understanding of what they want.
Hands off Columbus Day, Newton city seal, first responders’ thin red/blue line flags.
More importantly, respect and support for law enforcement officers.
We have candidates who want to defund police. I’m not supporting them and have no questions for them, but I would like to ask the councilors who endorsed them: is defunding police OK with you?
Casey,
So only folks who are zealous advocates for their position get to post here on that position? I don’t think that is how forum’s like this work. And with the guest post addition, the folks who are part of the Nonantum PAC CAN post here. Just email Jerry and it’ll happen. It is super easy. Click on the link at the top of the screen. Magic!
I can see that you are angry, but I’m not sure I completely understand why. Because Sean has an opinion you don’t like? Look Sean can sometimes drive me batty but he has a consistent world view, posts under his own name, and seems to be taking a lot of abuse in this thread.
As for you being a liberal and accepting onto all, I’ll take your word for it, but you clearly aren’t supporting Bryan Barash (comparing him to a 5 year old isn’t exactly being accepting towards all). As since you aren’t using your real name and don’t post here often, you could be anyone, just like me.
I don’t think the folks asking for more information from Save Nonantum are being rude or unfair. I’m sure a guest post can be easily arranged. A lot of us, myself include, would like to know more about their concerns. I know it feels good to have righteous anger when posting anonymously on the internet, and I’ve been there. But thus far I’ve seen lots of back and forth on multiple threads with folks who are clearly supporters of Save Nonantum, and no further information on the issues they are focused on. Lots of posts about Bryan and Maddie, a few discussions of Columbus Day from other people, and very few details of what is driving this PAC. It isn’t about being an eloquent writer, it is about backing up your assertions with examples and facts. That is how you change folks’ minds. Not by insulting another poster.
I’d welcome more feedback from the folks of Save Nonantum. And again, a bit less heat in these discussions.
And I’m offended no one thought my reference to Donut Santa was funny. Am I the only one that created an elaborate backstory for the giant Santa? That is disappointing….
Casey
You are assuming this blog is a representation of all of Newton. Its not.
The vast majority of contributors are far left progessives who get to set the tone and slant. Its a private blog, so its their right.
I think the phrase “weaponzing this blog to push agendas” has been mentioned before
As a voter that is usually far-left leaving in the city of newton I appalled and astonished at the lack of inclusion I am seeing here. Newton politics is supposed to be partyless. Here there is not right or left it’s supposed to be about what’s best for the city of newton. Do you know each of those people personally? I’m talking about the ones you called a right wing bigot. Do you know their political views? do you know who they supported in the past? My guess is no, you don’t. I live in Newton Centre I’ve visited Nonantum for a bite to eat and to attend the carnival there, it’s one of my favorite places to go in Newton, it doesn’t give that large fast paced city feel, and I appreciate that. If there’s anything I’m taking away from this situation is, that nonantum obviously doesn’t feel heard and to my knowledge is in within their legal rights to form a P.A.C. If anything all of you here getting so upset about what they are doing and trying to stop them, are proving them right. You don’t seem to care about their concerns. We as residents should be coming together and taking care of each other not beating them down. To each their own but the supporters of Maddie Ranalli & Bryan Barash berating people who have not even come and said they oppose them but attacking them for the mere thought of them
Being opposed have made me take my support for their opponents John Oliver & Tarik Lukas. Barash & Ranalli have enabled their supporters to talk down to people voicing concerns and essentially encouraged it by not condemning the name calling & hate speech. As a Newtonian I am ashamed this is what politics have come down to. You all spend so much time telling everyone how much better you are than these people in nonantum for how they act, take a step back and realize you are no better than those you oppose.
I am confused about what appears to be a conflation with Nonantum/Italian-Americans and police/Blue Lives Matters. Can someone fill me in?
Mary a large statistics of police officers from Newton come from that area, they are a product of a system that needs change acosting a whole neighborhood for supporting the police because those are their loved ones is absurd to me. We all know blue lives do not exist but we also need to acknowledge that police officers are products of a system needs change and a lot of them recognize that and want that. Continue to create a further divide between the neighborhood and your side, you are proving their point even further.
I have not read V14 in a long time and it is sad to see that Newtonians are still finding fault with others. There is so much distrust, hate and illness in this world, can we PLEASE come together as a community and be friends with differeing opinions? We no longer can be picking at each other. As a community we need each other, as many of our neighbors are suffering. Can we please STOP it and find what is good here and not what is bad?
Bugek,
The progressiveness of our progressives stops where progressive tax starts. Here is my question to candidate Barash that remained unanswered:
Anatoly Kleyman on September 6, 2019 at 7:48 pm
Bryan,
In response to my questions, you wrote on 8/4/18:
“@Anatoly – I am very interested in options for reducing income inequality and in proposals that will make it easier for those who live here to stay here, especially if their living situation is cost-burdened (>30% of income spent on housing). I’ve begun looking into your question about water / sewer rates. Interested in whether we can lower costs further for lower income residents. I know the city went through a planning process for sewer/water infrastructure, and that Deb Crossley was instrumental in that, so I’ll be seeking her advice.
In terms of residential tax exemptions, I think they are a good tool to make our tax system more progressive. I would love to see Newton adopt one, so long as the financial implications make sense for the city.”
Do you have any updates on these matters? Would you plan any initiatives on them if elected?
Paul – Sean has used his moderator/editor powers to edit his original post to start this thread, removing his claim that the PAC was “likely in violation of state election-financing law” after a poster (Lisa) called him on it. Personally, I would prefer the original text stay there with “strike-through” text (as Sean used later) or maybe remove it but have an explanation of how the post was edited. It’s an “unfair advantage” that the moderators have. (FWIW, I had editing capabilities at one point but have not started a thread in a looong time so may have lost my super powers, which would be completely understandable.)
But I believe his 11am post, with the PAC names, is still in the thread. Is there another post that was removed? If so, that’s not cool. But if that’s the case, what was in that post?
(I am doing surprisingly well with proving I’m not a robot. That’s generally not a forte.)
Dan Foley
I actually keep messing up the robot thing and losing my posts. I’m apparently not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Paul:
I agree with Dan Foley, I think the post with the list of names is still up. I also don’t see an issue with it myself, those are the folks on the Save Nonantum website, and I think the PAC should be applauded for listing out a full list of supporters. I may not agree with them, but I appreciate the transparancy. Also, Sean doesn’t have to respond to you directly, just like you don’t have to respond to him directly. The fact that he hasn’t engaged with you and answered his questions is his choice, just like it is his choice not to respond to my Donut Santa silliness. Also, to be honest, I would have a hard time responding to you too. I realize you are passionate about these issues but it is clearly personal between you and Sean at this point, it isn’t a discussion for a wider community in my view. Or maybe it could be, but not during election season.
Also, on another note, it seems like this thread has attracted a lot of left leaning folks who are against Bryan/Maddy and who are also anonymous posters who have never before posted, and are also hurt/shocked by Bryan/Maddy. A friend of mine from high school would call that the “Canadian girlfriend” method of posting. I mean it is possible he had a Canadian girlfriend. We didn’t know her, she was from Canada. LOL. The pleasures and mysteries on anonymous posting, said the anonymous poster named after a cookie.
Again, it is weeks to election season, let’s all stay calm and carry on, shall we?
Casey, you say you are accepting of all, yet you support (I presume) abolishing Columbus Day. Rewriting history is something done by fascists. Trust me I don’t think anyone in Newton is Fascist, but this behavior is suspect. Would you vote to change the name of July or August because they were Roman dictators? Or should we knock down the great wall of China and the pyramids because they were built by slaves? Where does one draw the line?
We should embrace our past, learn from it, and make better choices for our present and future. Rewriting the past, knocking down statues and eliminating people (cancel culture) is not the way forward for society. Liberal or not I would hope you to be as accepting as you say you are and accept that there are other viewpoints. Wanting to save Columbus Day is not racist. It is not supporting murderers. What happened 500 years ago is history. What Columbus Day means to the Italian-American population goes well beyond his “discovery” of the New World. We all know he didn’t do that, rather the day is a holiday to remember the contributions of Italian-Americans in our country. I understand the fear of people in Nonantum and beyond and support their desire to preserve the culture of the neighborhood. An “attack” on Columbus day should absolutely make Italians in Newton feel defensive. Any politician who wants to promote cancel culture is not an accepting politician and is not someone we as a society should support.
fignewtonville Thank you for proving my point further I am left leaning not completely progressive sorry to burst your bubble I had hope
For ranalli and Barash they are young candidates that obviously wanna do good for newton but I don’t stand for their supporters name calling people bigots, get rid of your white savior complex for god sakes. I moved to newton 10 years ago never payed attention to the politics here because honestly it seems like a lot do politicians here are all talk and little action for the pressing issues here, my understanding is that essentially the mayor of newton has sold the city to develops but that’s another topic for another time, was forwarded this page by a friend who follows this blog religiously, but obviously you have to be an insider here to matter, hope the agendas you push are met but remember everything has its price, peace & love to you all. Everything is so polarized lately, take the hate out of your hearts and focus on making newton it’s best. Be the community I moved too to find hope and prosperity not whatever this is
From this day forward he will forever be Dunkin Santa in my fevered mind.
Jerry for the win! Finally!
Ally D, I was just joking a bit and wanted a chance to use the Canadian Girlfriend line. You can be whoever you want to be online. Casey too. Post here and folks will get to know you even with a anonymous handle. No worries, please don’t be offended.
The other meme I almost use is the one with Steve Buscemi with the tag line “How do you do, Fellow Kids?” Or the New Yorker cartoon of two dogs in front of a computer, and one dog says to the other dog “On the Internet, no one knows you’re a dog!”.
Ok, offline for the night. Try not to fight people. Life is too brutal and short as it is.
fignewtonville Thank you for clarification! Didn’t mean to come off to harsh! Just think we all need to come together and ditch the name calling! Peace to you hope to get to know you all here and engage in some interesting conversations here!
Worst thread ever. Shut it down.
Casey, you say you are accepting of all, yet you support (I presume) abolishing Columbus Day. Rewriting history is something done by fascists. Trust me I don’t think anyone in Newton is Fascist, but this behavior is suspect. Would you vote to change the name of July or August because they were Roman dictators? Or should we knock down the great wall of China and the pyramids because they were built by slaves? Where does one draw the line?
We should embrace our past, learn from it, and make better choices for our present and future. Rewriting the past, knocking down statues and eliminating people (cancel culture) is not the way forward for society. Liberal or not I would hope you to be as accepting as you say you are and accept that there are other viewpoints. Wanting to save Columbus Day is not racist. It is not supporting murderers. What happened 500 years ago is history. What Columbus Day means to the Italian-American population goes well beyond his “discovery” of the New World. We all know he didn’t do that, rather the day is a holiday to remember the contributions of Italian-Americans in our country. I understand the fear of people in Nonantum and beyond and support their desire to preserve the culture of the neighborhood. An “attack” on Columbus day should absolutely make Italians in Newton feel defensive. Any politician who wants to promote cancel culture is not an accepting politician and is not someone we as a society should support.
best thread ever
village 14 was getting so boring!!!!!!!
thank you sean!!!!!!!!!!
Funny. Nearly 24 hours and 61+ responses later, and no one has gotten the subject of this thread right.
Does anyone know why Columbus Day was created it was not because “found america” it was because 11 Italian-Americans were lynched in 1891 in New Orleans. They chose Columbus to honor Italian-American heratige, but obviously that was a mistake seeing how he didn’t even wanna be from Italy and all of the horrific things he did in honor of Spain. I think everyone is missing the point this is not about Columbus, it’s about Italian history in America, instead of recycling Columbus Day & changing it to indigenous people give indigenous people day a whole new day, don’t tie it to a day that will forever create animosity & discourse. And regards to Columbus rename it italian-American heritage day in newton, honor someone like Joe Denucci or Fat Pellegrini from the neighborhood, most people in nonantum know how bad Columbus was. Generalizing a whole neighborhood based on a reading what a few people said who you don’t even know if they represent that area is toxic and pushes the agenda that the south side elitist will forever look at nonantum as the poor cousin of newton.
@AnnaD, just before I read your latest post, I was discussing this idea (creating separate holidays to celebrate Italian-Americans and Natives) with my wife. Although I am disturbed by the hatefulness expressed in some of this thread, I appreciated reading the Nonantum perspective on the renaming. Even though I grew up in Louisiana, I had no idea about the lynching or its connection to the holiday.
I think something like your solution makes sense and retract my statement that this is the “worst thread ever.” To get Columbus out of the picture altogether, I’d treat both dates as flexible.
John white! Thank you, I wanted to attach one of my favorite articles about why italians are so attached to coloumbus & an article about the lynching for some context
1st article: https://www.npr.org/2019/10/12/769688161/columbus-days-meaning-for-italian-americans
2nd article: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/the-grisly-story-of-americas-largest-lynching
@Annad – loved Yogi Berra Day ;-)
From a quick scan of Wikipedia about Columbus Day …
* In 1792, the Tammany Society in New York City (for whom it became an annual tradition) and the Massachusetts Historical Society in Boston celebrated the 300th anniversary of Columbus’ landing in the New World as Columbus Day
* In 1892, the 400 anniversary of the voyage, in the wake of the New Orleans lynchings of Italian Americans that Annad’s article described (above), President Benjamin Harrison declared Columbus Day as a one-time national celebration.
* In 1934, as a result of lobbying by the Knights of Columbus and New York City Italian leader Generoso Pope, Congress passed a statute stating: “The President is requested to issue each year a proclamation (1) designating October 12 as Columbus Day; (2) calling on United States Government officials to display the flag of the United States on all Government buildings on Columbus Day; and (3) inviting the people of the United States to observe Columbus Day, in schools and churches, or other suitable places, with appropriate ceremonies that express the public sentiment befitting the anniversary of the discovery of America.
* In 1966, Mariano A. Lucca, from Buffalo, NY, founded the National Columbus Day Committee, which lobbied to make Columbus Day a federal holiday.These efforts were successful and legislation to create Columbus Day as a federal holiday was signed by President Johnson on June 28, 1968, to be effective beginning in 1971.
Since 1971 the holiday has been attributed to the second Monday in October, coincidentally exactly the same day as Thanksgiving in neighboring Canada since 1957.
Jerry Riley, thank you
For some more context, I wanna reiterated from my POV that a lot of Italian Americans I know here in newton associate Columbus Day with remembering our heritage here with our families immigrating here and the lynching, there are so many Italian Americans that have done so much more for society than Columbus, some of those people I am talking about come from newton, I wanna echo my statement about removing Columbus completely from the situation and honoring both cultures on separate occasions