There was an important piece of news presented at yesterday’s School Committee meeting. Although the state has asked each school district to prepare three scenarios for school reopening in the fall–in class, hybrid remote and in class, and remote only–the Newton Public Schools has decided that the first of those three will not be feasible.
This conclusion was based in great measure on recommendations from the city’s Health and Human Services department that the state-proposed 3-foot separation of desks, along with other safety provisions, would not be sufficient, that a 6-foot separation should be achieved when people are in proximity for more than ten minutes (minute 49 and following in the video for the science; hour 1:04 and following for the implications). Once you buy into that degree of distancing, there simply isn’t enough space in each classroom to house a full class. So you end up planning for the hybrid scenario, with half of the children in school and half at home learning remotely.
The NPS is also preparing a robust distance learning model for families and teachers with compromised health situations who absolutely cannot return to school until Covid is not an issue.
My opinion is that this is prudent in terms of prioritizing things. There was always a high probability anyway that the full in-class approach would be interrupted repeatedly during the school year, whenever infections surged in schools or in the community. And if the disease settles down, it easier to ramp up to full day than it is to ramp down to hybrid if things get worse.
The hybrid approach also offers the possibility of controlling transportation costs since only half of the students would be on buses at any given time, so social distancing on the buses is more feasible. Indeed, it was hard to imagine how, with a full census, it would have been possible to get enough buses . . . or pay for them.
I tried to find a place in the video of the meeting where it was made clear whether the hybrid model was alternate weeks for each group of students or whether it was a Monday-Tuesday [Wednesday cleaning] Thursday-Friday plan. [Update: I later learned that this hasn’t been decided yet.] Also, I didn’t hear anything about whether NPS plans to have all the children in a family be grouped in the same in-class/home teaching pattern. Both questions are key for families in how they plan their work and home lives.
The NPS defies the state mandate, education (as always) takes the back seat, and our kids suffer. Sad. When I watch the video, I hope I see one person on the school committee who stood up for education.
I’d be really happy with a hybrid model and a virtual-only option for parents who opt for that. I think a safe full-time in-person model isn’t feasible for the time being, but 100% virtual puts some of our population at risk – lower income, kids, kids on IEPs, etc. I just hope that we get an answer about the logistics soon because I need to know what kind of childcare I’ll need and what to tell my employer come fall.
I heard the same thing – hybrid, but until NPS releases details, it makes me anxious and my kid. I understand that the state is telling NPS to wait. And I keep repeating that flexibility is the word of the semester. Luckily I have flexibility, now. But I hope, hope, hope, hope that online learning is 100 times better than the spring.
Jeffrey, my hope is that they will use this time to develop a rigorous and structured curriculum, but that part of the process feels quite opaque thus far.
Paul, they will not. At every junction they opt for less education.
According to my back of the envelope calculations, we have 3 known unrecovered cases of COVID19 in Newton. How low does this number have to be for the NPS to take the guidance of the state seriously? This is not about safety. It is about the NPS cutting corners at the expense of the kids and community. NPS is run by adults for adults.
Is this for both fall and spring semesters? For all schools? Have any MA school decided to open fully?
Dunno. Yes, apparently. Dunno.
I thought this piece examines the issues involved in re-opening very thoughtfully: Some Students Should Go to School, Most Should Stay Home
Thanks, Meredith. What I find interesting here, too, is that the Newton HHS people reached a different conclusion from the MA DESE on a key aspect of reopening, i.e., the desirable space between desks (even with other protective steps.) Both relied on extensive exploration and study of the issue. Did they talk to different experts? Did they hear different things? Do the local officials have a different risk tolerance from the state officials? Were they influenced by the relative costs of the three scenarios?
Paul, we are on the same page.
I just emailed the city’s department of HHS. I am going to try to look at 1) the actual decision letter that was sent to the SC. I can’t find it on the SC website, which is odd because the stakes are huge and presumably the exact wording is critical to the decision to ignore the state’s guidance. 2) the minutes of HHS meetings where a HHS committee deliberated on their recommendation.
This information should tell us why the different recommendations are different. Also, this was probably discussed at last night’s SC meeting, which I have not listened to yet. As a last resort, I will listen to it!
There should be a state mandate that every school in Newton has an Environmental Health and Safety assessment. There needs to be full-disclosure provided by the city to verify these have transpired. For those that are pressing for there to be more time spent in schools, as an adult, would one be willing to be in this environment? Now is not the time to play Russian roulette.
Thanks Jason. Please blog back when you know what Needham is doing and we can compare notes.
Jeffrey, I didn’t hear that topic (local versus state standard) discussed. In fact, I don’t recall the state guidance on this issue being mentioned. And I listened to that whole section of the meeting.
Jason, I think that phrasing this as Russian roulette creates an impression of risk that is out of bounds compared to the actual level of risk. Maybe you don’t mean it literally, but a 1 in six chance of death with a loaded pistol is a far, far greater than the risk of catching this virus and dying from it. I don’t think one needs to exaggerate the risk to make the point that there is a potential danger in these situations, indeed more for the adults than the children, and more for those adults of a certain age and with certain medical conditions. The presentation at the School Committee was quite clear that any adult who felt themselves to be at risk would be supported in the option of staying home. (And I’m guessing there will be an explicit commitment in the MOA that is signed by the NTA and School Committee.). That is as it should be. But that does not mean that all learning should be done remotely if the full panoply of protective measures are taken. Both the state DESE and the Newton HHS department agree on that point.
On a related topic, check out this excellent article on the issues surrounding pods from Axios: https://www.axios.com/parents-schools-coronavirus-pods-a18f0916-7dcc-43ff-bffe-5c33c753a23a.html
Wow. The implications of rejecting the state’s guidance and not having ANY plan for full time school are huge. It is mind-boggling that the school committee did not discuss it at all.
Paul,
The Russian roulette piece was hyperbole. This process must be done comprehensively. I am not saying that it is not, or it won’t be, but certain things leave me fuddled. There needs to be a reassurance that these decisions will be made for the right reasons. This is a stress-laden circumstance that is applying pressure on all the different sides.
It is my personal opinion that these issues can’t be broken down in black and white terms. Covid-19 is being used to create political unrest. I can see how this is engendering divide in this community. So I will ask you a direct question: if you are an NPS teacher, how much time would you willing to physically spend in your respective school with your students? The Western World has fallen prey to the practice of treatment over prevention. I opt for the latter.
DESE: “Keep desks 3 feet apart” “Children don’t spread Covid-19 (paraphrasing)”
CDC/DPH: “Stay 6 feet apart whenever possible as children do spread Covid-19 (paraphrasing)”
This is hard for everyone. The guidance changes constantly, and often contradicts guidance from other agencies. New reports, studies, and findings come out daily with varying results. Novel virus = Tremendous uncertainty.
DESE and DPH are both state agencies, but we can’t assume they’re on the same page or agree with an approach. A few weeks ago, there were a handful of districts looking towards a full reopening. I don’t think you’ll find any now as the reality is setting in that 3 feet only works in a perfect world. Classrooms and students are perfectly imperfect, and as such you need to account for life and districts are now aligning with the 6 ft guidance. School classrooms throughout the country can only accommodate 12-15 students when desks/tables are 6 ft apart. If the standard is going to be 6 ft, then a full return is off the table as there is simply not enough room. A hybrid model is already settling in as the universal approach for this fall. Cold and flu season will likely result in full remote learning for many, if not all, districts at some point. We know teachers will do a great job with the in-person learning, so the focus needs to be on making the remote learning and services the best they can be.
As a parent, I support the six foot and not the three foot option. Because kids are kids and keeping six feet away is going to be hard in a school, especially when moving around (lunch, recess, etc). If the space was three feet, moving around could mean less space between kids.
I am a firm believer of public education (k-12 former student and UMASS Amherst graduate), but I feel like a pod might be a good option for my kid if we go virtual. Because of the lack of details (forced by the state), many parents are trying to figure out what plan B is. I have never enrolled my kids in Russian School of Math (if they asked, I would have but they didn’t have a desire, and I didn’t feel like I needed to) or any other academic booster program, but if spring is going to be what fall is, a pod is a good option for my kid who is completely stressed out about starting the year in a new school with new teachers. I understand flexibility is the key word for me, but I still need to plan. But I feel terrible, that I am able to sacrifice some money for a pod, when kids in Boston, Worcester, Lynn and Brockton had NO schooling this past spring, and it could happen again in the fall. I am not in a position to afford private school, but a pod could be right for me. But I feel terrible for parents who can’t afford this option.
The idea of podding highlights the inequities that we are facing as a community when it comes to school. There are plenty of kids in NPS whose families can’t afford to do such a thing or kids who have special needs. The choices are very harrowing for us.
Thanks to all for those comments!
Jason, I know it was hyperbole. That was exactly my point, that this is not a time for exaggeration. As to your question about me, that’s not the point is it? Each person has to make their own decision, and, as I mentioned, the school system has to support that–which they have said they will.
Randy, I agree with “the focus needs to be on making the remote learning and services the best they can be.” Please see the discussion I started on that point here: https://village14.com/2020/07/17/whats-the-educational-standard-for-the-coming-school-year/#axzz6T1C5eWJZ
NMom and MMQC, that Axios article I cited talks about the potential inequities of pods. For those of us worried about the achievement gap among different socio-economic groups, that’s a serious concern. There are ways to overcome those inequities, in whole or part, but those approaches need planning and support right now. Pertinent quotes:
“This is not an option open to everybody. Home environments are less equal than school environments. If what this does is let school districts off the hook either from reopening or doing a good job with distance learning, then that’s going to lead to more inequality.”
“Public school districts should be given funding to help ensure that this kind of learning benefits all students. ‘The pod and small group learning ideas are good ideas, but we have to ensure that they’re actually equitable.'”
And there was the Boston Globe article today, stating that some communities had parents waive SPED student’s rights. Not a good direction.
In our world of COVID-19 inspired uncertainty around schools, I found great hope in a recent edition of This Week in Virology:
https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-640/
The guest, Michael Mina from Harvard School of Public Health, talks about how a $1 / 10 minute COVID-19 test developed at MIT can change everything, even though it isn’t as accurate as the current PCR gold standard for testing.
It’s long, it’s nerdy, but it’s worth listening. It offers hope of normalcy even before a vaccine is developed. If everyone could test themselves at home before going to school or work, every day, we’d be having a much different conversation about schools right now.
Fascinating, Mike. And right, it would be a game-changer.
@Jeff:
The comments that the SC has been getting from parents and faculty regarding a preference for 6ft is overwhelming. Lexington and Boston rejected the 3ft recommendation first. There really was no other option but to follow suit. You are in the minority…by far.
NPS is not alone. Have also learned that Lexington, Marlborough, Boston and Worcester have a preference for the hybrid models. As required by the state we will be submitting three plans – in person, hybrid and distance. but are operating on the assumption that we begin the school year in hybrid mode. We have just today received DESE guidance on transportation and operations.
Tune in to one of the presentations to better understand the planning. If you aren’t able to do so in person, the recordings will be available. https://www.newton.k12.ma.us/site/default.aspx?PageType=3&DomainID=4&ModuleInstanceID=36&ViewID=6446EE88-D30C-497E-9316-3F8874B3E108&RenderLoc=0&FlexDataID=13088&PageID=1
So much is unknown and the science keeps changing. We fully recognize that we are making imperfect decisions with imperfect data. Unfortunately for all of us, this is the world we now have to navigate, and I understand how scary it is that so much of the routine that anchors are daily lives has been thrown into chaos.
Thanks, Margaret , both for the information and the empathy!
And, as you know, among the uncertainties facing the NPS is exactly how many people will choose to have their children engage in each of the three models of learning–also a moving target in terms of planning. The initial survey conducted by the district, I think, is unlikely to be dispositive on that point, as it was a highly simplified instrument because it was too early to lay out for parents fully what each option would look like. The next survey (I think it was to be in mid-August?) can be more informative to the parents and therefore more helpful to the school system.
Meanwhile, all you have to do is check the various Facebook pages to see how “podding-up” is in full recruitment mode–both for children and teachers. Serious equity issues will emerge from that unless the city (perhaps another department rather than the NPS) helps organize a way for people of lower income to participate. Idea, is there a role for the Senior Center to recruit older on-line buddies? Or, some coalition of religious organizations to recruit at home and/or on-line helpers? Or, as I have mentioned, older students, including college kids taking a gap year. https://village14.com/2020/06/30/students-helping-teachers/#axzz6T1bVcYLY
Recruitment and privacy issues can be handled if there is a will. This is a good opportunity for the city to pull together. The Mayor would likely have to make it happen.
Paul, if the city gets involved in “podding” and extends it to all students, perhaps people will start to realize that we are better off simply having school as normal.
Kids have been playing sports, playing with friends, congregating in huge numbers at Crystal Lake, and doing podded summer camps for two months now.
Paul,
With all the moving pieces, there runs a tremendous risk. Given the complications with a lot of the buildings compounds the risk. How will the older schools contribute to exacerbating this situation? Will, the city take the steps to ensure these buildings are functioning “optimally?” We can’t pretend like people are walking around in bubbles. One can contact it, be asymptomatic, and then put family, friends, community members, and beyond at risk. When I asked you the hypothetical question about what you would do, this is a fair question. You have strong opinions and a background in education (if I recall correctly). Data and other ways that you come to your disparate conclusions have been a big part of your views. Why not state what you would feel comfortable doing during a pandemic?
How will the school support people that are high-risk individuals? What will they do to give people the confidence that his/her job is secure? One can contact it, be asymptomatic, and then put family, friends, community members, and beyond at risk. This is where I have misgivings. We can’t work with the mindset that this is a self-contained model.
Has there been any mention of routine testing?
Jason,
To answer your question of what I would do as a teacher in this situation would require that I post personal information about me and my family. I won’t do that. Besides, this is not about me.
I don’t understand what you mean about my “disparate” conclusions. I thought we agreed that people who feel at risk should be supported and protected by the NPS; and I’d guess we’d also agree that such a provision should be in the MOA between the District and the NTA.
Frankly, I’m not sure what your point is. Do you think we should toss out the hybrid approach and go solely to remote learning?
Thanks for posting this. Was there any discussion in SC about using our school buildings differently? i.e. prioritizing K-8 as in class but maybe not in their existing schools/buildings – possibly using the High School for space – and 9-12 as remote? Could be very confusing to implement but wondering if this was touched on.
David’s comment is worthy of consideration. Younger children are much less likely to get and spread the infection. In larger spaces, they would be even safer.
For the near future, the older students should stay apart. Young adults from fifteen to thirty years old are fueling the spike in cases around the country, and they are also the most likely group of potential vectors. Bringing high school students into crowded buildings with questionable ventilation is the perfect storm. To repeat what we all know: the virus spreads preponderantly through prolonged sharing of indoor air. As a retired teacher, I am grateful I will never face teaching in a classroom with students but three feet apart for blocks that, at least in the high schools, can run as long as seventy-five minutes.
Consider as well that high school students will naturally congregate too close together as is already happening in public spaces around the city. For better or worse, education in the era before a vaccine will remain a difficult proposition. There’s no plot afoot, just a nearly impossible set of choices.
Bob, we just got off a Zoom call for middle school students and it was made pretty clear that the kids are going back to school, most likely every other day. The presenters didn’t touch on high school students but the presumption is that all students in Newton will be back in school. They plan to be creative about traffic patterns, use of outside spaces, student cohorts, etc.
I’m proud of our leadership for making this happen.
Newton South and North will be used for high school kids. The incoming freshman class is a focus for the staff due to the kids being new to the high school community.
Matthew, I think you’re probably right that I am in the minority. I won’t regret advocating that we follow the state guidelines instead of throwing in the towel and shorting education. In a few years when the cost to our children is clearer we will know who was right and who was wrong.
As Margaret notes. There IS an option to not follow suite. As requested by DESE, Weston and Needham have full time models. Both of these districts perform better than us academically (unlike Boston and Lexington). Also, Weston’s hybrid model does not lose a day for cleaning. They must have figured out how to have the custodians clean at night or on the weekends. Maybe we should copy their approach. Their phone number is (781) 786-5800.
I had the same thought as David Kalis. Plus, with North at least they have relatively new HVAC systems. Many of our elementary and middle school buildings are very old and I wouldn’t trust them.
Paul,
No one is asking you to disclose personal information. This is a hypothetical question. To state that it is not about you is evasive. You are highly engaged in the conversations pertaining to this issue on Village 14. Therefore, one can deduce that this carries some weight for you. If you are currently a teacher in the NPS, what would you be willing to do? Maybe you are well known in the community and answering this question is a conflict of interest? If so, I respect your prerogative.
I would love to hear people’s unvarnished views on why they support the different models.
For clarity sake, disparate is not the word I wanted to use.
I just finished watching the high school presentation. They did not specify what the exact hybrid schedule will be except for stating that siblings will be on the same schedule and that the majority of parents preferred the model of a few days in school and a few days online each week. Boston is indicating the two days for one group then a day of cleaning and then two days in for the second group. Newton has not indicated that is their plan as of yet. I think with the custodians you probably have contract/cost issues; however I believe there are already different shifts including a portion of the night. My thought though is if we did follow the Boston model why wouldn’t the middle day be online learning for all either via zooms or prerecorded learning presentations which could occur without anyone being in the buildings?
Some takeaways from the presentation: There is going to be much more consistency to the communication of information and also the presentation of information. One of my biggest pet peeves throughout my children’s school careers has been the inconsistent use of schoology and other such tools. I’ve felt why make it so hard for the kids to figure out what they need to do. I’m glad this is forcing all the teachers to use the platforms available and that there will be consistent standards for doing so. I like that the focus will be on teaching the students skills. They will be determining where the students are at academically and adjusting the curriculum moving forward to meet those needs. I think this is incredibly important for equity. Families shouldn’t be forced to rely on outside sources to bridge learning gaps; due to last year because not everyone has the resources to do so. We need to get the kids back to learning in a way that they feel confident not overwhelmed. They will also focus the beginning of the year on building community. A huge different at the hs level for spring to fall is that the kids will have teachers that do not already know them so it is incredibly important in the hybrid or online model to give them some opportunity to get to know the kids.
Lastly I would stress that it is incredibly important for the well being of high school kids to be physically back in school. It is more likely for this age group to be disconnected from others especially adults who may look out for them.
NHM – great summary of the presentation, thanks. It is fantastic to hear that Newton is all systems go on getting kids back to school.
Hearing media (can’t say who) doing piece on Newton Teachers Union based on what was reported yesterday.
I listened to the middle and elementary school presentations.
The biggest “most critical” missing piece that seems to be testing. Current advice will be to go to the child’s pediatrician, and if that doesn’t work, a hospital or clinic. NPS is working on establishing some sort of testing for staff and students, but has no details to report.
I believe we will succeed or fail through testing. Can’t wait for symptoms. Can’t wait a week for test results. Is the cost of testing equitable to all? Will cost for some limit the health for all?
Lack or universal healthcare will continue to bite us as a society. We are only as healthy as our most vulnerable neighbor.
I have also seen a proposal to start virtual and build to fully in-person as circumstances allow. The seriously confounding factor there is the flu. We simply don’t know what the interrelationship between COVID-19 and the flu is. The deep winter months are going to be incredibly challenging on schools and families.
We were so lucky to have shelter-in-place to happen during a relatively nice New England spring. I can’t imagine what being cooped up during winter would, or will, be like.
Mike, I’m not sure where you are getting your information but the presentation yesterday could not have been more clear. The overwhelming majority of parents want kids to be back in schools from the beginning of the school year and that is exactly what is going to happen.
The whole point of the social distancing, cleaning, ventilation, outdoor classrooms, cohorts, and A/B scheduling is to make sure that if one kid tests positive the virus doesn’t spread.
@craig “The overwhelming majority of parents want kids to be back in schools from the beginning of the school year and that is exactly what is going to happen.”
Not sure if you heard. NTA President Zilles had to stop his Faculty members from lying on a survey regarding health Conditions bc teachers don’t want schools to open until after Nov election. So I would say schools aren’t going to open in Sept.
MarketWatch: Looking ahead, President Trump wants schools to reopen. Denmark has done it successfully, it seems, while Israel has faltered. What’s your take on that?
Fauci: So if you open up a school safely in a region where there’s not much infection, you probably don’t even have to make any changes. If you’re in a place where there’s considerable infection activity, there are a lot of options to mitigate the risk that you could do a hybrid model of part online, part in-person. You could physically separate the children at school, alternate days or morning/afternoon classes. It’s going to vary depending on the risk.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/anthony-fauci-tells-marketwatch-i-would-not-get-on-a-plane-or-eat-inside-a-restaurant-2020-07-24
The issue is not political but medical. Israel’s leaders, like our President, declared a premature victory over the infection and opened its schools to full participation. Sadly, as a consequence, the disease is raging there again, and visitors from abroad must quarantine for two weeks before venturing out, and not very far at that. The disease is impervious to political pressure. If people congregate and take few or no precautions, then the result is completely predictable. High school and college-aged young adults are all too apt to ignore these precautions in any event, especially if spending the day together at school.
Those who don’t learn from the past are destined to repeat it…or so the saying goes.
Everyone knows that not having a plan to go back to school full time, and instead having a best case scenario of going back to school 40% of the time will result in poor education outcomes for our kids. On one side, the SC and Newton HHS think that doing this to our kids is worth the health benefits of distancing by extra 3 feet. On the other side, there is disagreement by DESE, the American Association of Pediatricians, the CD, the Weston and Needham public schools.
In two years we will know who was right and who was wrong. We will be able to look at infection rates in Weston and Needham, compare them to Newton, and we will know if the gutting education was worth it. If am wrong I will admit it.