None of the athletic fields or current field programs will be impacted by NewCAL. We deeply appreciate all the vibrant activities and daily life at Albemarle, and none of these will be negatively impacted, but rather complemented by this wonderful facility.
This location can accommodate the full NewCAL program, while also resulting in no loss of athletic field space. NewCAL could be either two or three stories. Parking can be added in front of the NewCAL / swim facility. The existing parking on Albemarle Road will also help address parking needs for the new facility, as well as the other existing uses.
The location is a 4-minute drive from the current Senior Center. The site is close to equidistant between Newtonville, Nonantum and West Newton Square which all have amenities that support seniors. Unfortunately, it is not in a village center nor near public transit and not right in the center of the city.
The 54-year old Gath Pool is heavily used in the summer by both the public and camps. It is badly in need of an overhaul and requires continual investment for leaks and temporary repairs. Simultaneous with the NewCAL project, we would address the need for a multi-use new indoor/outdoor pool that works for the public, competitive swimming, camps, and for senior aquatics.
The combination of NewCAL with the Parks & Recreation Department programming currently at Albemarle and a new pool facility can be a win-win. We will have capital project efficiencies, operational cost savings, and new opportunities for cross-departmental collaboration. The Department of Senior Services will take the lead in managing the core NewCAL facility. Parks & Recreation will operate the swim facility and the gymnasium when seniors aren’t using it. Other departments such as Health & Human Services, Newton Community Education, Veterans Services, Historic Newton, the Newton Free Library, and cultural/arts programs may also be involved in NewCAL programming when compatible with the needs of our seniors.
The NewCAL Working Group has been working on the site selection process for many months, starting with 145 city-owned and private properties. Through the development of the NewCAL program, site space needs, and site selection criteria, we removed all but 24 sites as not being viable. We then analyzed the remaining 24 sites and identified 6 sites that were most viable (these included Weeks, Pellegrini, Newton Centre Playground, McGrath/Warren, Cabot, and Albemarle).
If you would like to stay involved in the NewCAL Project, please email us at
[email protected] to be included in routine updates and to hear about public engagement opportunities. The next NewCAL community meeting will be on September 19
th at 7:00pm in Room 111 at the Education Center located at 100 Walnut Street.
What exactly happens to those facilities supplanted by NewCAL construction? For example, is a new outdoor swimming pool and related facilities to be built elsewhere outside of the NewCAL footprint — and if so, won’t that take parkland and green space? And if not, this is NOT a senior center (assuming the pool is open to all) — in which case should not be tagged as a senior center. The same applies to the two tennis courts and full size basketball court to be supplanted. Please be specific on whether those will be replaced elsewhere and, if so, where? On other parkland or natural green space?
I have the same questions as Jim. Where will these “about two” acres of outdoor activity space be replaced?
Also, I love swimming, but how will a year-round pool be staffed? The city can’t even keep Crystal Lake and Gath Pool open the full summer season when the college kids go back to school.
And Jane’s question: what will we not be doing if the project is done from operating funds instead of a debt exclusion?
And where will people park, considering every space on street can be filled when the fields are in use? Not to mention the traffic gridlock when the schools get out and nothing can move past the loading buses.
“The Department of Senior Services will take the lead in managing the core NewCAL facility. Parks & Recreation will operate the swim facility and the gymnasium when seniors aren’t using it.”
So can we get over the farce that NewCal is a Senior Center and that the 2 1/2 acres needed is for Senior Programming?? How much or the 38000 sq feet is dedicated to Senior and how much (pool/gym) are for the public?
There are SPECIFIC CLEAR QUESTIONS on this thread.
Will the Mayor or her spokesperson PRECISELY answer these questions?
We’re all waiting…
The mayor says the budget is very tight. A huge line item is being added to the operating budget, in addition to the annual funds needed to do the bonding part of the project. The residents have a right to know before the city council approves the funding for this project what part of the budget will be cut to provide for this 38,000 sf facility? Road repairs? Building maintenance? The schools? Park upkeep?
The onus is on the city council now to find out some answers. I have my doubts that they’ll ask any questions of this mayor.
The first commenter who says Albemarle was chosen because it’s on the north side is a rotten egg!
Jane, in the absence of the city council, that’s precisely why it falls to us publicly and repeatedly to ask these questions of the mayor on this forum and elsewhere.
Interesting. Wasn’t the old Horace Mann School the first site mentioned for the Senior Center. I believe the plan now is to use Horace Mann for the Newton Early Child Ed but interesting that the new front runner is so close to this site. It seems that a new pool is included in this proposed site. As far as the tennis courts I’m not sure how much they get used but maybe the City could work out a deal with Fessenden to use the Palandjian Courts visible in the photo accompanying this post like they do with the soccer fields at Fessy. Maybe they could fit a basketball court in the triangle of green space on the other side of the trees near Day or it looks like there is some dead space by the HM playground between the playground and the ball field closest to the playground.
@Newton Highlands Mom: Whenever I’m at Gath pool I see people playing tennis in the courts. They seem to be well used.
City Council thoughts on NewCAL prior to this announcement:
http://www.newtonma.gov/civicax/filebank/documents/96894
http://amysangiolo.com/2019/05/list-of-anticipated-fy2020-capital-expenditures/
http://www.newtonma.gov/civicax/filebank/documents/97436
I keep wondering why the City Councilors do not speak up. They seem to let the Mayor go off on her merry way and no one says boo. So now we will be adding more buildings, taking away tennis courts and a basketball court, adding to the parking issues that one can encounter at this site, building a center that has no clear mission, not near public transit or most of Newton, not near shops or cafes where people using the center might like to go before or after their visit, and yes, yet another project for the north side of town. The people in Watertown and Waltham should be happy since this will be much closer to them than to most of Newton. And who is paying the costs to run something like this? Or will is only be open Monday-Friday and only open until 4pm? Our teachers don’t have contracts but we will have the most state of the art senior center-or is it a senior center?
Why is she proceeding with this wildly unpopular plan?
Hey, look at that…I was right. Even on the actual site plan. I give my word I had nothing to do with the decision and didn’t know anything about it in advance of my posts. (I actually know zero folks in city government).
Of the six choices, this was the obvious one.
First, I encourage everyone to take a deep breath, and actually consider the project and the site. As I stated previously, I think a 3 story building could be shoehorned into the hardscape that already exists with minimal loss of parkland. You’d get new locker rooms, a new meeting space to replace the broken down one next to Gath Pool, a new Gath Pool (with a modern design with SHADE and benches I’m assuming), and possibly an indoor pool. If done right you could make the building self-sufficient and put solar panels on the roof, and provide for a heated indoor pool as part of the facility. I would be ok with the loss of the tennis courts and the basketball court, which are seldom used in my experience, and have no organized sports using them. If the building proceeds east of the tennis courts, it can be built with no ultimate impact to any fields.
I still have the following questions:
1) Programming
2) Need
3) Cost (Jane’s point about other needs and an override is well taken)
4) Evaluation of whether the loss of non-hardscape parkland is worth the building.
All huge questions. But I do think this is the logical choice for a site from the six selected.
So let’s answer some of the above questions:
Julia, if the indoor pool is more of a lap pool, it can be staffed with a much leaner staff than the full Gath pool. Newton North’s pool is open to the public for lap swimming and other events, and it has a lower lifeguard presence. If you restrict pool use to adults or those who pass a swim test above the age of 14 for instance, you don’t need 10 lifeguards and safety checks. Many local gyms do this.
Jim: I’m assuming we would lose the tennis courts and basketball court. I’d be ok with that honestly. That would trade a hardscape use for a hardscape use. And frankly, it would be hard to site a half court basketball near the playground. My personal take is that the ones in other parks get used far more. That is certainly a loss, but should nothing ever change about a park? I’m willing to keep an open mind about the project if that is a necessarily loss, and I’ll listen of course if folks nearby plead the case of the courts. As for the Gath Pool being closed during construction, yep, that’ll happen. But you’d have from September to June to finish work on the pool. And the Gath Pool NEEDS a redo. I would envision a redone Gath pool with a better connection point for young swimmers, and a separate pool area for seniors. Gath Pool has a lot of landscape/wasted space of hot broken cement. Seriously, not a great place to swim. We had guests a few weeks back, and they were shocked. The pool complex in Needham is a revelation folks. Go look at it.
I think the locker rooms and meeting area next to Gath Pool get absorbed into the building. If you go up 3 stories, the first floor can be all pool and gym, then exercise rooms, then meeting rooms.
As for Parking and gridlock, yep. Those are issues. But wouldn’t seniors be more inclined to use the building during daytime hours? And aren’t the fields most in use when school is out of session. Measuring the parking by the weekend soccer tournament captures the highest point of need. But even in those super high use periods, I’ve never had to walk more than 2 blocks or so to find parking, and you can always park across the brook. It can certainly be tight during those times, but the vast majority of time, there is ample parking. And I used to go there 4 to 5 times a week. (haven’t in the last year).
No site is perfect. None. It may be that once I hear the proposal I’ll hate it. And until they answer the 4 issues I highlight above, I still think I don’t understand why we NEED this project, what we will DO inside of it, what it will COST, and what we will LOSE to get it.
And Jim, patience my friend. I doubt the mayor reads the blog as often as you and I do.
Folks should also visit the site between the hours of 10 am and 4 pm. Tons of parking. Little use. And the Gath Pool area is dead outside of the summer, both the site and the parking.
As a parent, I’m familiar with the parking issues during games/practices. But where in Newton isn’t there traffic and parking issues. At least here there is a long runaway on two sides to park.
If you judged Walnut Street traffic between the time of Newton North start/finish, you’d think I lived near a destopian traffic wasteland. Abandon all hope ye who hope to drive North or South at such times. But 30 minutes later, not so bad.
Also, I think it you told Newton folks Gath Pool would be improved, lots of folks might actually be ok with this trade off. Gath Pool just is horrible.
Ok, feel free to roast me.
I want to know what part of the operating budget will be cut to pay for this building. For all the bouhaha about the siting (and it still takes parkland), no one has asked what we’re NOT going to have in the city.
I too see there could be some benefit of this plan, which is not so well defined yet. But the Fieldhouse is in terrible shape and could be used more effectively, the Gath pool could stand a lot of improvement, and a good plan could make all these improvements incorporated into a better center for seniors at the same time. The roof of Gath and the roof of the Fieldhouse are flat – perfect for solar panels – and a better design could utilize all that space for solar. In between the two buildings is just concrete, and the only two picnic tables are stuck in the concrete as well. So perhaps the idea is to integrate these two buildings into one. (Not sure where the baby pool would go but….) I don’t know. The buildings could be heated with ground source heat pumps, and this process could possibly allow for all this. I’d like to see what could be offered with a small pool for seniors’ exercise classes during the non-summer months.
We don’t have any reason to believe the tennis courts and basketball courts will be lost and yes – people do play tennis and basketball at these courts. Having these edifices redesigned could end up bringing utility to Albemarle all year. And thus it could have had Parks and Recreation’s support.
I also think the field could end up having a true walking track for seniors, and the not-so-seniors, complete with a map and distances. Right now it’s just an asphalt trail. Space might even be found for bocce of pickle ball, which is becoming popular with seniors.
And perhaps out of this, that entire road would be made bicycle-friendly, and a safe and ADA-compliant and bicycle-friendly crossover to the other side of Cheesecake Brooke could be constructed. Right now, from the pool, you have to go backwards on either the sidewalk or against traffic, then hop up to the bridge, and hop off it.
Right, There is Limited public transportation to Albemarle. But it just stands as a reminder of what folks who live on that side of Newton have to deal with in getting from place to place or from home to work and back again, and feeling integrated into the City of Newton’s offerings.
Then maybe when it’s all done, the City will sell the existing senior center property and net enough money to pay for all this!!!
@fignewtonville you were the first person I thought of when I read the Mayor’s email. 🙂
I do wonder how this will be funded. A Gath Pool upgrade would be great as it is lacking in many ways. There is a fair amount of unappealing hard scape space around the Gath pool and the building next to it. The Mayor seems to reference an indoor/outdoor pool which made think of the Wayland Town House Pool. It used to be an indoor pool but they rebuilt it to be an outdoor pool with an air supported structure aka a bubble in the non summer months. http://waylandcommunitypool.org/about.shtml
However what are the trade offs in funding this, are the costs being mentioned even realistic and is this endeavor what Seniors and the greater community want?
As I evaluate her decision, here are some guiding principles for me:
– I do not support losing parkland.
– I am concerned about how we will fund the full extent of this project.
– I have a lot of questions that haven’t been answered yet and I do not think we are ready to settle on a definitive location yet.
– It would be a huge benefit to keep the Senior Center in Newtonville. The people of Newtonville have depended on it and enjoyed their proximity to it for decades.
Let’s be honest folks. This is not a senior center. This is a new indoor athletic center.
This was not the original intent — or selling point for ‘NewCAL’ and much is lost here unless the City keeps open at least the original community village oriented more centrally located Walnut Street Senior Center.
They Mayor is stuck with Albemarle, in a much worse spot especially for transportation deficient seniors — Albemarle area being with less political and economic clout — only because she tremendously misread or was misled that there’d be no opposition to losing parkland and green space in Newton in areas where ‘NewCAL’ was originally planned.
But since this NewCAL initiative has been the baby of the Mayor and some advocates, they MUST go forward with something, under the guise of building an indoor pool.
To say nothing of the tremendous building and then annual O&M cost — when the city has so many other and UNMET needs, such as roads and existing parks in dire need of maintenance and improvement.
Re the existing Garth pool, the city should pay for simply rebuilding that outdoor pool — at a fraction of a fraction of the cost, and see if the really voters want this additional monetary sinkhole of the new NewCAL athletic and indoor swimming complex.
I’d bet the farm that if seniors were given a choice of tax reduction equal to the building and annual O&M budget of this ‘NewCAL’, or ‘NewCAL’, they’d opt out of this fiscally irresponsible undertaking for the City.
There is another issue regarding this site proposal that isn’t receiving much notice. Article 97 of the amendments to the Massachusetts Constitution states (I’m paraphrasing here) that parkland cannot be developed other than for recreational purposes. Clearly a 2 to 3 story building is not a recreational purpose. Will the Conservators or some other stakeholder sue? If the City Council seems inclined to entertain this proposal, I sure hope someone comes forward to file a challenge. Article 97 allows development on parkland only if 75% of the legislature votes to approve, which makes me wonder what our legislative delegation thinks about all of this.
Gerry, I’m not sure that is true that a 2 to 3 story building isn’t a recreational purpose, and I think there might be some wiggle room regarding the difference between open park and areas with hardscape/building uses. But I think this is probably an obvious concern that would need to be addressed quickly.
I addressed this yesterday on a different thread, as follows:
One aspect of the flawed legal process is that park siting of NewCAL is impermissible in the absence of first determining no feasible and prudent alternative (Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 45, as implemented in the Newton Parks & Recreation Manual (pages 44-45)).
The second aspect of that flawed legal process has to do with Article 97 of the Amendments to the Massachusetts Constitution, essentially requiring a 2/3 vote of each house of the Massachusetts legislature, before Newton can proceed with NewCal in the Park. This has particular applicability here because of the recent case, Smith v. Westfield, 478 Mass. 49 (2017).
What a cynical use of “process.” All of the questions concerning the program, the choices, the unconstrained budget remain. Meanwhile, the Councillors sit quietly on the side.
The onus is on the city councilors now. Just as the mayor will be, they’ll be held responsible for any cuts to the budget for this facility. They’ll be held responsible for the inevitable cost overruns because for whatever reason, they’re unable to stand up to this mayor.
It’s time for the councilors to step up to the plate and state where they stand on this issue.
Fig – what are you willing to give up in order to have this facility? Of course Gath Pool is in terrible shape. Other than the rebuilt/renovated buildings, every building in the city is in terrible condition. Unlike a private company that can grow its assets to pay for new initiatives, state law restricts municipalities from growing assets without a vote of the local residents. That means we’re adding (significant) costs without adding revenue. So what are you willing to give up? It’s an honest question that no one will answer.
The ‘process’ has been exposed as a sham and a fraud because comments on Village 14, public communications to the Mayor, City Council and City Solicitor, and the massive opposition to NewCAL in the Park demonstrated in the online petition forced the Mayor to act quickly to endeavor to stem the bleeding, rather than playing it out pretending the process to be deliberative.
It’s really hard for me to imagine a 30000 sq ft building there that doesn’t overwhelm the surrounding fields. But it may mean this of us who live within a block won’t have to give our dogs tranquilizers every 4 th of July. They won’t be able to have the fireworks down there any more with such a large structure there.
I am confused. While I want a vibrant building that can host an array of great programming for seniors and a new and improved Gath pool (Will they do an indoor/outdoor thing like Wayland), I am confused at how seniors are supposed to get there without public transportation.
Is there an MBTA bus that travels through Newton via Gath?
My kids hardly use the Gath pool because they can’t get there without a car (and that it is the least friendly pool in the area). If this is for multi generations, how are non-drivers supposed to access the area?
Sometimes it feels to me like Fuller has an inferiority complex about Newton between this and her police department idea.
Before this process started, did anyone survey or interview seniors about how to improve the center? This is something where you need someone other than those who run the center ask the questions. I have heard primary concerns that can be fixed that don’t involve a new building.
Also, I have heard that the Needham Senior Center, in comparison, does a great job.
All I am saying is that it might be better to ask questions first and dig second. Maybe, a survey was conducted and I did not hear about it.
The lack of public transportation to this site IS a problem, esp given that those voices representing the needs of the seniors (at the senior center) have been making DRIVING a central issue, and this is one of the things that powered the NewMo idea.
It’s kind of ironic that an early plan for a Senior Center at Albemarle makes people notice that there’s not public transit to the area, when three schools, the Boys and Girls Club, highly used playing and sports fields, and a pool didn’t.
Albemarle field area needs a radical traffic/transportation/streetscape safety overhaul. Newton has submitted a proposal to the state as part of the Safe Routes to School program for funding, but independent of whether that funding comes through, the project needs to happen: both intersections (at Watertown and at Crafts) as well as the treatment of Cheesecake Brook, (the brook crossings, flood mitigation, run-off, beautification, keeping cars from falling in), parking, sidewalks, all need major work. The new early learning center is going to change traffic patterns significantly since it will draw students from across Newton, including ones requiring special needs vans.
If we look slightly further out, Watertown is horribly unfriendly for bicycling or simply crossing the street on foot. Crafts is possibly worse, but will improve somewhat based on current repainting plans.
And that’s just to fix the transportation system we have. We ultimately need to get people to the site without driving, and there’s no obvious answer. At best, we have a fragmented system, with NewMO, school buses, and after-school shuttles currently providing the only transit available.
It’s a tough problem to solve, but the potential rewards for the community are huge and will last lifetimes. Independent of NewCAL, we need a vision to figure this puzzle out and the will to implement it.
I actually see such an improvement project as a natural one for West Newton development mitigation funding.
For a prototype of what a community, social and caring oriented environment any NewCAL SHOULD be, rather than a gymnasium swimming pool athletic complex, and the TYPE of senior person it SHOULD be serving, take a look at this video of Plymouth’s new Center for Active Living (‘PlyCAL’) — https://www.plymouth-ma.gov/center-active-living/news/video-what-center-active-living
I think our Mayor has wandered off course.
I don’t drive up Albemarle Rd as often as many of you do, but Pam Wright just sent me photos of the flooding, which she said happens about once a year. In this flood plain, the building could not have a basement, necessitating a larger footprint to achieve whatever square footage is determined necessary, than on a street that does not flood.
I checked my emails, and it was exactly a week almost to the hour between the announcement of the short list of six, to the announcement of Albemarle. It looks like Albemarle may have been the intended choice all along, and the rest was theater, but still, a week? Not even a pretense of community engagement in between?
It feels like this announcement was rushed in an attempt to circumvent the deluge of opposition to the expedient option of taking park space, instead of seriously looking at how a senior center without a full gym could be done on other city properties under 2.5 acres. Or by acquiring adjacent property if there was a willing seller. (More willing than at least one of the three houses acquired to expand the Zervas parking lot. There was also at least one house acquired for the Cabot project, I recall.)
You can’t miss what you’ve never had. I grew up in a midsized midwestern town and took the public bus everywhere – to school, to work, to friends, to parks. My options were walk, bike, or take the bus. Some high schoolers might have had cars, but I never knew them. Never heard a discussion about the need for student parking. There was a bus stop right in front of school.
Talking to people who grew up around here, it seems students driving themselves to school is the way it always was. There is a huge social equity issue to transportation, that I rarely hear discussed in Newton. Not everyone can afford a private car or endless Ubers. How do students without access to a car get to activities – theater/sports/band/Ligerbots? My guess is many don’t. And how does that affect their school experiences and college applications.
I find it interesting in big D democratic Newton, the solution to transportation is privatize it. More parking at the Library, which has a lovely public bus shelter next to it. Reduce carbon by incentivizing residents to buy electric vehicles… How about socializing our transportation as well as our health care?
Julia, with the onslaught of the petition, some open email letters to the Mayor and City Council, capped off with one to the City Solicitor raising serious legal flaws in the process and possible injunction, I believe the Mayor had to act.
While I had been hoping (perhaps wishful thinking) she would merely have suspended the process pending resolution of the issues raised, she elected quickly to select (the obvious, least bad, in view of the objections and as anticipated by some) Albemarle Park.
Whereas the Mayor could have shown courage and integrity at that juncture, she instead cynically went forward with the sham process.
I’ve got a suggestion for an alternative site: the Nathaniel Allen Homestead on Webster Street in West Newton. While I realize the Homestead was acquired and repurposed for a specific use (“the arts”), given that the city via CPA and other funding has already committed $7.5M to the Homestead, that the Homestead is located close to West Newton Square, that the Homestead is sits on a sizeable lot, and that the Homestead is still in its development stage the city might repurpose it again for NewCAL/senior center/whatever it’s supposed to be.
I believe this is a very poor choice for a city wide multi generation
facility. Seniors need a new center larger than the current one.
Albemarle is not the site and does not need a gymnasium and indoor pool there.
Residents would like an improvements to the existing out door facility for swim.
Build a new senior center where the Hut is in Newton Center.
Seniors don’t play basketball. They need a large exercise space for yoga and work out machines.
Newton has many cross town facilities for multi generational activity. Mayor Fuller is on the wrong track and should not be spending money she does not have. We do not need more outrageous tax hikes.
Like Julia said, I think the lead up to this was all theater. Hello Washington Street is also theater. It’s to give residents the feeling that their input is valued and taken seriously, but it’s lip service and I think they have an idea and an end goal all along. I want development and change in Newton, but I don’t like how it’s getting done under Mayor Fuller.
Mary, I don’t think Hello Washington St is theater. I just think that there are a lot more aspects that are in the weeds, difficult to explain in thirty seconds, or constrained in some other way that isn’t obvious. The process isn’t a blank slate, and it’s highly political no matter what happens (it seems like that’s true in most communities, not just Newton).
Many people have good (or at least empassioned) ideas, many people want to be part of the process, and even more want their views reflected in the process. But it is hard getting those ideas to work together, and teach people enough about zoning and economics and traffic/transportation and the costs of stuff so that their ideas are well-grounded. Combine that with a natural fear of change, distrust of expert opinion by some (traffic, schools, economics, housing trends), and some very long-standing entrenched opinions.
It would be hard to design a car, a house, a business, or even a pizza through a community process. Even if you did succeed in consensus, it still needs to be good. What are the chances you’d come up with something that is both good and novel? We shouldn’t expect that designing the future of 2+ villages should be easy, or that the actual outcome won’t be pretty constrained (and possibly envisioned fairly accurately by some people).
That doesn’t make the process theater. You still want people to speak their mind. That just doesn’t mean anything’s possible. People want their say, but that doesn’t mean they can get their way. The trick is trust, and Newton doesn’t always have a lot of that (for a pile of reasons, I know).
There are clear and fundamental differences between planning such a large and complex vision like Hello Washington St and developing a single project like NewCAL.
Colleen says, “build a new senior center where the Hut is in Newton Center”.
You’re kidding, of course — on Newton Centre Park on Tyler Terrace???
I can’t think of a more controversial, more objectionable park site than that park.
But hey, I’ve got an idea, if the City were REALLY concerned about adding a centrally located, easily transportation accessible community, social and caring oriented environment — to ADD to keeping the current Walnut Street Senior Center — simply use and perhaps rehab the existing Hut as a Senior Center Annex (no increase in footprint and even incorporating the existing architecture).
Case closed.
But hey, that’s too easy, too obvious, too economical — for the current City Administration.
I emailed the city councilors to get their opinion on the project. Not only has it been interesting to read the responses, but who hasn’t responded (yes, I know people are on vacation). Please email the council and ask them for their opinion. I don’t think they all ready this website.
@Julia,
Flooding shouldn’t be a problem, they could put the swimming pool in the basement!
@Colleen Minaker The Hut is used during the school year for the MR after school program and during the summer for Parks & Recs Centre Acres Summer Camp. I think this location was chosen for the camp because it allows the campers to walk to Crystal Lake each day. The school itself is used for P&R’s Echo Bridge Camp. P&R also rents the Hut out during the year when it is not used by the aftercare program to various fitness programs (Boot Camp, Taekwondo etc). The building is on a Steep Hill not far from the Hammond Brook so I think this site would be difficult site to build on which is why I think it was odd that it made the final 6 potential sites. Parking in this area can be pretty busy on Tyler Terrace especially when it snows and all other streets surrounding the school are too narrow to park on. I’m not sure how close any buses go to this location but the T stop is a bit of a walk.
Call to councilors – Please represent us and insist on transparency from the Mayor and the NewCal working group.
From all the comments the common thread is that the Newtonville location is the preferred location for the senior center. Can that be renovated along with the Gath pool for less than it will cost to build the 38,000 sq ft facility that we are not sure who is asking for?
Old proverb: Pools are like boats; they are holes into which one throws money.
So:
a) Make better use of Newton’s existing pool(s): we just built one at NNHS, so ..
b) Use construction and operating money saved foregoing pool (re-)construction to, instead, buy the exact parcels best for a Senior Center: i) centering on the one at NNHS, take 10-12 DEXTER RD plus 515 and 525 Walnut, ii) . Put NewCAL there. Tunnel a walkway under Hull to keep seniors indoors during the winter walk to the pool.
c) Make Gath sink or swim on the merits: following the MDC/DCR’s lad (“DCR has decided to shutter the Brighton-Allston swimming pool and the Hall Memorial Swimming Pool in Stoneham. The decision was based on ‘budget limitations, facility concerns and low attendance at both sites.’) don’t renovate it, send it back to nature … or if we must do something, follow the trend and fill it in.
I’m pretty sure following up “we plan to build something in a park” with “instead we’re going to abandon Gath pool” is not going to improve anyone’s political fortunes.
That would leave no public recreational pools in Newton (given there are no DCR facilities here). That’s OK, kids can just play on the spray pads around the city. Oh, wait….
Where’s the equity, the Newton Community Pride, in that?
I prefer the DCR Connors pool (it’s free!) as a more appropriate model of a recreational pool, something it sounds like we’re getting further away from even with this new proposal.
Roshni Mohan , your points about wanting to understand the costs of renovating the current Senior Center and Gath Pool are well taken.
But: “From all the comments the common thread is that the Newtonville location is the preferred location for the senior center. ”
Tempting as it may be, we can’t and shouldn’t make consensus decisions based on comments. Online discussions can alert us to things we hadn’t considered, but they can only hint at what consensus might be (and they can sometimes be dangerously misleading).
The best collaborative decisions rely on mutual education, discussion, debate, and respect in a fair and open process. No shortcuts. We still might not reach consensus, but we’ll give more good ideas a chance to rise to the surface.
Let’s resist the temptation to replace an imperfect process with an even more flawed one.
@JimEpstein you seem to have all the answers. Is it too late for you to run for City Council?
Needham has had 14 overrides. Newton has had two in the same period of time. I wonder if their wonderful senior center was funded by an override or from the operating budget.
I’v also begun to contact councilors and candidates as well. I ask if they think this is a $16m project. Do they think we need a community center or a senior center. Do they think it should be funded through the operating budget and bonds or a debt exclusion override. If it’s funded through the operating budget, will they vote for it. I ask why only four councilors to date have been willing to speak up about to the community and to the mayor.
Time to contact all 24 councilors and the candidates to find out where they stand. Time for them to take a stand.
Jack, just consider me the virtual City Councilor, as “Village 14” is a virtual village, and then label me “City Councilor 25”.
(Plus it appears, from my experience on this and some other Newton matters, that NOT being a City Councilor affords the opportunity to make much more impact than being one of 24 City Councilors — who are apparently constrained from publicly saying fully what they really think.)
Jane. When I mentioned the Needham Senior Center, I am not talking about buildings (and, thus overrides), everything I heard is about organization and events for seniors.
So…somewhere on this thread I posted links to some of the discussions the City Council has had with the Public Buildings Commissioner and others involved with the planning process for the NewCAL. Within the April 14th Report of the Public Facilities Committee is an update from the Public Buildings Commissioner discussing the challenges to siting the Newton Early Childhood Program at the former Horace Mann location. Parking was raised as an issue.
“The Commissioner explained that it was expected that traffic and parking would be
challenge at the site but noted that the peak demand for the NECP program is less than the peak demand of the existing Horace Mann use. He stated that because drop-off and pick-up for NECP is spaced out throughout the day, the total peak demand is 140-150 parking spaces. Commissioner Morse noted that there are 265 parking spaces in the neighborhood within a reasonable walking distance (measured from the farthest parking space in the parking lot). He noted that the working group is also collaborating with the Parks & Rec Department to allow buses in the emergency access, to help reduce
bottlenecking.
Commissioner Morse stated that the current design shifts the main entrance from Watertown Street to Albermarle Street. He noted that the City was previously considering an arrangement with the Boys and Girls Club to allow overflow parking on their site but has determined it not to be necessary. He stated that the City is still working with the Boys and Girls Club regarding development of thesite circulation and noted that there may be some opportunities to utilize complementary parking between the two properties.”
Parking for the preschool is a significant issue that was raised in April. The issues are different from a typical elementary school for several reasons. The staff is larger, the parents can’t drop their children off as elementary parents can, a part of the student population has special needs, so proximity to the school is more important. Parks & Rec refused to increase the parking. In April.
There was an early proposal to put more parking for the preschool between the school building and the Watertown St. frontage. TAG (and I’m sure others) pushed back on this proposal. Paving such a large and visible area shouldn’t be done lightly.
Jeffrey – I was actually not referring to just Needham. The WG visited a number of senior centers and really liked the facilities, and I question how the really expensive ones were financed. Belmont, for example, funded theirs through a debt exclusion override. But I agree with you that the programming and events should be the focus.
Mike – The preschool staff was clear that the parking was not sufficient at H-M and they needed more spaces. P & R said no. The problem is that P & R counts cars, and the staff understands the needs of the children, parents, and staff that’s coming and going all day. The city and the school system should listen better to the people who work in the trenches in general because data on a spreadsheet often misses the nuances of a situation. The voice of Parks and Rec overrode that of the educators’ about an issue that the staff understood better.
So the parking at Albemarle may or may not be sufficient for all that will be going on at that site.
@Jane: A reminder that my Senior Center concept of an “Olympic Village” is still alive, and to all those wondering where your City Council is, I’m on this. Many of my City Council colleagues in the Lake, Newtonville, West Newton, and Auburndale had a fear that Albermarle was the chosen site long ago, so this announcement does not catch us off guard.
I will be sending out a detailed email at some point this evening outlining concerns and courses of action to take. Just by naming a site doesn’t mean its going to happen as advertised.
Re: parking – keep in mind that much of the Day Middle School faculty and staff, as well as visitors, also park at Albemarle.
Jim – I’d counted you as one of the four on my list. Your idea is intriguing and can, at the very least, be part of the solution.
I always assumed it was going to be Albemarle.
Wellesley passed a debt exclusion in 2016 for their new Tolles Parsons Senior Center (approx 13,000 sq ft, construction cost listed on the ballot as $7,297,000, exercise rooms and a fitness center but no full size gym and no pool.)
@Jim
Be sure to mention 3,600 people have signed the online petition, in just a week.
At this stage it appears the mayor is not listening, and we shall have to rely on the city council to represent us.
I’m sure you recall the city council being unanimous over the revised charter amendments, but the mayor knew better. I would hope the situation be viceaversa in this matter.
One has to wonder if the green / environmentalist endorsers of the Fuller campaign have buyers remorse? They seem rather quiet? Perhaps they are stunned / shocked – where are they in this discussion?
Jane Frantz said: “The preschool staff was clear that the parking was not sufficient at H-M and they needed more spaces. P & R said no. ”
Jane, parking just isn’t that simple. Users of buildings are seldom going to say, “yes we have enough parking”. And doesn’t the whole larger issue of green space preservation suggest that Parks and Rec should be skeptical of any attempt to be converting grass into parking or other hardscape?
It may well be that parking on the old H-M site itself proves to be insufficient at some times. That will undoubtedly complicate the planning of any new facilities at Albemarle.
But that doesn’t mean the answer was “add a new parking lot right off Watertown St.” It could conceivably have meant, “this isn’t such an awesome place for a centralized special needs preschool”.
I believe the only way to answer these questions is to have a single reliable traffic and transportation consultant with experience in school design to work on all school projects throughout Newton. It would give us consistent and high quality answers early in the school design process, help us make our blue zones work better, and save us huge amounts of time not re-inventing things differently project after project. The safety of our kids (and parents!) depends on it.
Neither school staff nor P&R have anything like the necessary experience to figure out transportation and parking design on their own. Nor do we want them to. We want them to work with school transportation experts to make each and every project work the best and the safest they can be.
Regarding parking at and near Albemarle, while it’s only a single day of the week, Ablemarle is packed with parked cars on Sunday for Newton Chinese Language School (NCLS) at F.A. Day Middle School.
The ghettoisation of the north side continues…. ..
Most ghettos would welcome the addition of a brand new community center with a new pool, gym, classrooms and senior services.
Just saying.
Mike – My point was that the Preschool has very specific space needs for a variety of reasons. I’m no fan of increasing parking and you will not see a comment from me on any or the parking threads. I think parking lots are unsightly and a bad use of space. I currently and in the past have worked in schools and not needed or used the parking lot. However, I do not have mobility issues or special needs. The Preschool has children with both so the needs are different. In addition, parents with very young children have different parking needs.
The request for extra spaces close to the building came from a group of professionals who know the needs of the parents, children, and staff of their school and was denied by another department who counted cars and spaces and does not have an understanding of the needs of this population. Parks & Rec is an integral part of the Working Group. The schools does not have representation on the Working Group so they were at a significant disadvantage in this discussion. As I’ve mentioned several times before, once the senior center morphed into a community center, the Working Group should have been expanded to include representation from other generational groups. This is the perfect example for why this needed to happen when the scope of the project expanded. As an aside, I agree with you that this could have been a reason to decide that “this isn’t such an awesome place for a centralized special needs preschool” and you’d find others who agree with you.
This decision adds to the sense of unease about the process. Day MS is at the other end of Albemarle Field. Did they have a seat at the table at any point in the process. I know that in the past, parking at Day was a significant problem and Tricia says that it’s still a problem.
These are NPS professionals who could have and should have had representation in the process. It’s been many years since the city of Newton has included input from the people who work in the trenches. This input could have provided a more nuanced understanding of the the issues related to a decision that affects their daily lives and that of the children and families in the program.
The mayor, from her secluded bubble in Chestnut Hill, truly has no idea what goes on in Newtonville. She is without clue.
I live in this neighborhood and have spent many a pleasant moment coaching and watching sports on Albemarle field. But I’ve also been there when it’s a vast, vacant, windswept expanse.
With the understanding that the devil is in the details, I believe this could be a huge benefit to the area because it could turn the field into more of a neighborhood resource. I rarely see people gathering on that field for anything other than sports. It’s not a place where you go to sit and play board games, it’s not a place where you would have a picnic, it’s not a place to meet for coffee, it’s just there for activities.
We need that, and I don’t believe we’re going to lose it. But we do have the chance to gain a real sense of place that the neighborhood lacks now. Also, I think this presents us with a great opportunity to connect this stretch to both the river path and to the evolving Washington Street corridor. It’s going to be about thinking creatively, but this is a chance to give the neighborhood something amazing for all ages.
One final note: if a senior center gets built I hope that the city can use it as a transportation node to bring in more people with fewer cars, not only for the seniors but also for the people who use the field as a sports destination.
Greg-second time asking this question: do you think this community center should be funded through the operating budget?
Same for Chuck. Every park in the city needs upgrading to make them more attractive for daily use. The fact is this field has two schools at either end with stakeholders who use the site on a daily basis. They had no representation on the Working Group. If you don’t care for this field, you can go elsewhere. The people who work in those two buildings, their parents, and students don’t have that same choice. Please don’t take this wrong, guys, but this is not about you.
I’m all for any facility that has a fiscally responsible funding source. I oppose a project that takes funding from the already tight operating budget without being completely transparent with the community about what will NOT be happening as a result.
I’m concerned by the lack of concern for the people who need to use this space daily and the fact that there was no representation on the Working Group to explain their needs.
@Jane: I would need to fully understand our bonding capabilities and capital needs to responsibly answer that question.
But since you are calling for “transparency,” wouldn’t it be appropriate to acknowledge that you are an officer with the Newton Teachers Association which is in the process of contract negotiations with the mayor which, of course, could inform why you are so dug in on this issue?
Chuck,
That area that encompasses the field house and the pool house is all concrete anyway, much of it not even used. Even the two picnic tables are embedded in concrete!
I think it’s an opportunity to achieve several goals at the same time. I think the “NewCAL” building At this location will have to be scaled back in height, and hopefully the process will glean some of what is superfluous from the plan, of which there is a lot. But this neighborhood is generally overlooked – it was good to see new sidewalks going up along Waltham St yesterday – and given its size, the park is popular quite deficient in many areas. Outdoor picnic tables (like we see at Crystal Lake) set in grass where families can sit together and eat… Chess boards, bocci for people of all ages…
And I do see your idea of using it as a connector to stretch the river path. (Already there are plans to add a bike lane along Waltham St.) The road that lines Cheesecake Brook really needs to be made safer for those biking TO and FROM the park (and in particular, Gath pool.) Given the size of this park, it’s ideal for a walking path for seniors, possibly to be a bike path for young kids as well.
But I would like to 1) see the height of the building scaled back and 2) see if this can be done within a reasonable budget. Can this be done? That remains to be seen.
Last night I went over to Albermarle to check out the action. Yes, it is August, it was evening and no school or pool going on. Even though it was 8pm there were approximately 60-75 people of all ages using the fields, people playing basketball and at least 40 cars parked in the parking spaces. At 8:10pm the lights went off and everyone had to stop and leave. Looking at the “hardscape” when the NewCal project is built if we have a pool there would still need to be a pool house for people to change, there would still need to be plenty of hardscape for the pool area in addition to all of the space desired for the Senior Center. The other building next to the pool houses equipment for the field uses-we would still need that-wouldn’t we? Meanwhile, we do not keep up many of the parks we currently own, we still have many schools that desperately need renovation and more space-and not more modular classrooms, driving to Albermarle once again reminded me of how patched up our streets are. Where is the money going to come from to fix and maintain what we already have and in addition to the cost of building the Fuller NewCal center, who will pay to staff it and maintain it? I think dangling the beautiful indoor/outdoor pool in front of people is all a smokescreen to distract from the size and scope of this project.
I think “several goals at the same time” may be the issue here, unless, that is (1) available money and (2) senior transportation access, are no issues.
Having said that, is anyone aware of any existing Senior Center in the area with a gymnasium and/or pool?
After all, what we really have here is a major new athletic complex, with a few meeting rooms which seniors can use, located far from any nearby amenities and sense of village or community for seniors.
If there is to be any honesty here, THIS is what should be presented for consideration to the taxpayers.
One thing I can say for certain, if this was just up to seniors, especially those not otherwise using existing athletic facilities, including YMCA, JCC, yoga studios, etc., they would elect for a smaller and more easily accessible, similar to the existing Walnut Street site, rather than the new athletic complex.
It would be interesting to see if they could partner with the Boys and Girls Club who has a wonderful gym facility and perhaps when not in use by its members – could be used by the City?
Amy, … and I believe the YMCA has offered to further develop programs just for Newton seniors. (And what happens to existing senior offerings such as yoga etc. at the Hyde Center? and/or other city owned meeting rooms and other facilities around town which seniors regularly use, library, Emerson, etc.? Are all those to be sacrificed or left unused? or will they be in ‘competition’ with Mayor Fuller’s NewCAL Facility?)
Greg, well apparently those on the south side didn’t and don’t welcome NewCAL in the park.
@Jim: I live on the south side. I’d be delighted to have a brand new community center with a new pool, gym, classrooms and senior services near me. If that’s what passes for a ghetto these days, all is good in the world.
I strongly oppose the senior center development at Ablemarle Field, a space near my house that I visit daily, for several reasons.
First, a multi-story building disrupts the open space that contributes to Newton’s livability, regardless of whether it’s built on “hardscape” or grass.
Second, to accommodate parking for 77, seniors would either need to duke it out with those parking for sports practice and games, swimming, Sunday Chinese school, and Day student and staff transportation, or they’ll need to develop surface lots will need to somehow maintain the integrity of Cheesecake Brook and not impact the already limited outdoor resources of the town’s biggest and most overcrowded middle school.
Third, creating a senior center that is not central to Newton and not on public transportation is not a viable solution for the long term. Over the course of the life of this center, people will have to travel through the city on roads in vehicles to get there, building more road traffic throughout Newton that could be avoided by the use of a central location.
Fourth, the criteria created by the NewCAL team specifically includes room for future expansion. In that case, we would lose further parkland and greenspace. Once it’s gone, it never comes back.
Finally, there were 140+ possible locations. Why have all the other sites been eliminated? Why have we decided not to expand the current site, apart from this very questionable “historic” designation? Have we polled existing (and future) seniors on what locations would work best for them? If not, why not? Are we sure we need a 4,000 square foot gym with retractable bleachers when some of our schools, particularly on the north side, are profound need of investment? This process makes the city look as though it is not thinking holistically about the needs of the entire community.
I’d like to see us develop a plan in which we protect our open space, invest in our existing sports fields and wonderful outdoor community pool, build walking and biking options throughout Newton, ensure that our schools have the basics like safe drinking water, air conditioning, and great librarians, and locate all-city structures along public transportation lines.
Amy,
The Boys and Girls Club gym is used for basketball all the time (kids and adults). I can’t imagine having any more access! And the parking lot is not adequate for the amount of people that play baskeball.
Greg, I said “NewCAL in the PARK” [emphasis added], not just “NewCAL”.
CP:
All that is correct. There are plusses and minuses and I’d like to see these both really explored. I have outlined some of the plusses via this post. Some minuses: I don’t think the City has fully done its homework, though.
—How many additional motor vehicle miles does it expect to be driven?
—For that matter, was there a study done re: the existing and current senior center on transportation?
—Did seniors who utilize(d) the senior center do other things in Newtonville before and after, such as stop by Shaw’s or CVS or go out for lunch or get a beer or something else local? (We have commitments to reduce vehicle miles driven, in our Climate Action Plan.)
– Did/do the people who went or who go to the current senior center represent all of Newton’s villages, and if so, equally?
—Would a senior center in a different location (i.e. Albemarle Field) equalize this more and bring in residents of Newton who are disenfranchised from “mainstream” Newton, whatever that is? So many people I know still tell me that Newton does not have low-income people. That’s just plain wrong, and we have to be there for them, too.
So on a spreadsheet, with real data, looking at all of this, how does this all work out?
Greg – please lobby for it.
So for me, this all comes down to a poor process. You’ve all asked important questions that should be answered before planning goes much further–especially the questions about funding. I do also agree that there could be some interesting programming possible with this location, but is there any interest in these types of programs? I have no idea how many people walk to the current Senior Center, drive or are driven to know if public transportation or local eateries matter to those who use it or who work there. And as someone who lives south of Route 9, this is another new pool on the opposite side of town…
Question: has there ever been a person in Newton who was unhappy with an outcome but said, “Gotta admit, fine bit of process”?
Greg-This is your blog. Three of the possible sites for this community center were on the south side of the city. You never once advocated for the center to be placed on one of those three sites, but now you want people to believe you’d love to have it in your part of the city.
You have access to the mayor. Did you let her know that you’d love to have the community center on Weeks, Cold Spring Park, or the Hut? You’re a community leader and could have influenced the decision. Inquiring minds want to know if you advocated for the community center to be on any of these three sites.
@C Pruitt
Watch the existing senior center be sold to a developer for another mixed(up)-use project.
@Jane: ‘the south side ‘ doesn’t necessarily mean Weeks Field, Cold Spring Park and the Hut (none of which are actually south of Route 9, btw). There’s Wells Avenue, possible negotiations with Northland for space along Needham Street, and a less-known space along Winchester Street where I think the city dumped (or maybe still does) snow in the winter. I’m sure there might be more possibilities…
@Sean: Yup, I agree that most people don’t appreciate process if they disagree. But it does help to know that you have been heard and to hear clear opposing arguments. And sometimes we learn and opinions can change or at least be more flexible.
I think that the city should attempt to acquire the Citizen Bank Building in Newton Center. The building is an eye soar and is in a perfect location there is the Green line and at least two bus lines that stop right in front on Centre street. The is a very under-utilized park which would provide great green space.
The current building is two story (probably a basement as well) That site could easily accommodate three stories. There is parking behind and a low rise garage could easily be built.
The city could retain and renovate the current Senior Center and add this as a second location.
I suspect I know the answer, but does anyone know if the city has made public the list of the 140+ locations they considered and the ratings based upon criteria. That would be very enlightening.
@Claire, yes, a day or two after the June community meeting, the city did post the list of 145 city-owned parcels on this page, though it didn’t rate them all: https://newcal.projects.nv5.com/?doing_wp_cron=1565965709.9868791103363037109375
Thanks Julie. Didn’t they say that they also considered private options?
Sue-I completely agree. There are numerous possible sites on the south side. My reference was to the three on the short list. Support for a southside site didn’t emerge until after the northside site was chosen.
So to serve Newton’s seniors better, Newton is going to eliminate the senior center? Not to say the decision making was rushed, but I’ve seen shotgun weddings with a longer lead time. One of the mayor’s developer buddies must be in a tearing rush to lay hands on the existing site.
If this plan goes through as proposed, there will be 4 gymnasiums in one small area: Day Middle School, Horace-Mann, the Boys and Girls Club, and the community center. Then you walk 4 blocks to the east and there’s another gymnasium at the Carr School! This is ludicrous.
We now have three southside community leaders expressing huge support and/or lamenting that the community center isn’t going to be in their neck of the woods. I agree with Sue and Greg – there really is a need for more recreational facilities on the southside. In addition to not having enough gymnasiums, there aren’t enough fitness centers, and as Sue pointed out, there isn’t a swimming pool on the southside.
The final site decision was made way too hastily. Let’s back up and look at the parts of the city where there is the greatest need for this facility. It’s clearly on the southside, while the level of redundancy in the Albemarle area makes no sense.
If the funding of this project could be figured out (nothing out of the operating budget), I could definitely get behind a community center on the southside. Sue mentioned several sites. Why not make this happen?
I live in the north ghetto and strongly support the Albemarle plan taking shape. Looking forward to riding my bike there for zoomba classes. seriously though after reading the proposal I feel like the working group is really doing a good job at working through all the concerns.
And for the record, I live just a few blocks from the proposed Barn project and my initial reaction is supportive.
Jane,
1. The final Albemarle decision was made immediately after the uproar over NewCAL registered with the Mayor over all 6 semi-finalist parks, with Albemarle winning (or losing depending on how you want to look at it). Albeit Albemarle generates substantial opposition, the Mayor and her advisers calculated from a political standpoint that it would be less than the more massive opposition to the remaining 5 parks; plus Albemarle has just about equal hardscape even tough in a floodplain, to a completed NewCAL footprint (provided no expansion of the building can ever be permitted) to enable the Mayor to skirt the prohibitive legal restrictions of all the remaining designated parks.
2. The final decision was released to the public now rather than later (after a pretend process) because the Mayor simply had to stem the flow of blood now.
3. It would be error to deem southside “NewCAL in the Park” — overwhelmingly rejected by the southside community — as being the same thing as “NewCAL (NOT in the Park)”, much more favored by the southside community both previously and going forward.
4. The Albemarle proposal is NOT a Senior Center; it IS a major athletic complex with a few side rooms reserved for senior use and activities which may take priority when there is conflict with non-senior use.
5. The existence of 4 other gyms in the immediate area of the proposed NewCAL does not factor in because a new gymnasium is needed to justify and enable a NewCAL in a park.
6. The current need for additional southside recreational facilities — with the northside currently not having such need — does not factor in because all of the designated parks on the southside generate too much opposition for the siting of NewCAL.
7. Money being fungible, any way funding is determined and calculated for NewCAL, it will supplant funding needed for maintenance and repair of existing infrastructure, including roads, parks and schools.
8. At the end of the day, it can be safely projected that nothing like a NewCAL will ever be constructed on the designated Albemarle site — for a number of reasons, the enumeration of which I’ll leave for a future comment.
I realize the community center isn’t a senior center, and if a responsible funding mechanism can’t established then I still oppose it. Bonding and the funding out of the operating budget are out of the question, in my mind. We tried that for NN to avoid an override and it was a disaster as the building went $60m over budget. Think about what didn’t happen as a result of that cost overrun (road and sidewalk repair, infrastructure not repaired or replaced, etc). I haven’t spoken to anyone who thinks this is a $16m project. So I’m in agreement on the cost.
I continue to favor a designated senior center, but if the city approves a debt exclusion override, then the siting is the only a problem. Albemarle, with its three existing gymnasiums that could be used differently, and two schools at either end, with daily parking needs, buses coming and going, is a terrible idea.
Mike – I lived in N’ville for 25 years and love the density. That being said, how much is too much? As for the process being a good one, I suspect you are in a small minority. There was no representation on the WG from other generations to advocate for them. The hasty final decision was made to stem the uproar, not for the best of reasons.
If it’s going to be a community center, then pass an DE and place it where it’s needed – somewhere south of Comm. Ave.
@all: From my email earlier this week:
Hi All,
Representing the residents of Newton and my Ward of West Newton I would like to share some thoughts on the proposed NewCAL project, and the concept of an “Olympic Village” Senior Services Group. First of all its very important to thank the NewCAL Working Group that put the time and effort into a complicated project.
Seniors Background and Commitment to the Schools: The Newton School system, with its national reputation, was built by the current senior citizens of Newton and their legacy has carried on. The State’s Education Reform laws enacted in the early 1990’s, were adopted by the residents of Newton as a base, and then expanded through the commitment of resources and effort to a level greater than mandated. So what did our current seniors do? They committed to the youth of their day, and generations of youth have followed and benefited professionally and financially because of this commitment.
The only drawback was that they sacrificed their own quality of life to get this done, and the City now lacks updated facilities to address the many needs and programs developed for older residents. Its been my unofficial research, in talking with many, that these residents cannot now see sacrificing the budget and park land to build a Center that could quite possibly be done incorporating existing assets (with upgrades).
Challenges:
West Newton has become the center of many projects in the past couple of years and currently we are dealing with:
1. Hello Washington St
2. Zoning
3. West Newton Sq Rebuild
4. The Barn 40B Residential Proposal
5. Santander Bank Project
6. Potential Residential Developments along Washington St
7. Armory to be re purposed to housing/municipal use
8. NewCAL
9. Traffic: New vehicle traffic from the neighboring cities of Waltham and Watertown, follows their ambitious residential projects that added over 1700 residential units on our city line. (West Newton and Newtonville)
Stress from Growth:
West Newton is the most dense part of Newton to the extent that as a City Councilor I can easily walk my Ward, whereas in the other parts of Newton one must drive their Wards. Because of this newly built-in density West Newton and Newtonville needs more open space and taking away open space and park land for buildings is counter productive
Albermarle Park/Quality of Life Parks
Albermarle Park stories abound and they are all real. At one time a large play area of multi use fields and facilities that over time has been carved up and whittled down, a story that continues. Carved out sections include the former 9 hole golf course, now part of the Fessenden School, Day Middle School (was open space), Horace Mann, and now the proposed NewCAL. A park that has been conveniently carved up over the years. Last year the Mayor noted to the City Council that the city was in Park and Recreation crisis mode with a shortage of fields and facilities, and a noticeable lack of modern park amenities such as those shown in our neighboring cities and towns.
image.png
Types of Parks:
The city needs to address the quality of life of all of the residents when looking at the future of our parks. Last summer I toured a All-Generations outdoor pool/spray park/Picnic area in Golden, CO http://www.splashingolden.com/ . In this recreation area you could see all ages of people enjoying the day at the park. In our family alone that day there were Great Grandmothers, Grandparents, Parents, and children, and everyone was engaged in fun activities!! The days of a rectangular pool with deep end only slides have passed into history and we need to think creatively!!
NewCAL – Olympic Village Concept:
My concept, discussed with many city officials and residents is one that allows for upgrading existing Senior Center assets in Newtonville, and then possibly adding sites already owned by the city such as the former Newton Center Library, then teamed up with other existing city assets such as schools, pools, and recreation assets.
Things to consider:
1. Cost: Though we own many of the assets upgrading the existing facilities to code will take planning and funding.
2 Control: The Senior Center runs many programs all over the city and generally has to have staff at each location/activity. Staff needs to be added to address new uses to old buildings.
3. Open Space: No need to take Park/school property
4. Transportation: Center shuttles may be needed on a permanent basis to move people from facility to facility.
5. Mayor: The Mayor is not a fan of this concept, reviewed the idea of existing assets earlier in the process and eliminated the ideas as the Working Group moved ahead.
6. City Council: We’ll have the final say with the budget and we can direct changes as appropriate.
I wrote this email to generate ideas and hope for a city to be proud of its quality of life for all age groups.
James Cotes, I am a big fan of the Olympic Village concept. What were the objections that were voiced by the Mayor?
Councilor Cote,
Thank you so much — and I think much of Newton would thank you as well.
Your analysis and concept are right on the money (and I mean that more ways than one)!
Not sure Golden’s Splash is a model, for swimming at least. Lap swim ends at 6:15pm (facility available for private party rentals after), so not much use for lap swimming after work. Gath stays open til dusk. Then there’s this: “The Splash will not open if the temperature or forecast for the day is 65 degrees or below.” Huh?? People in Colorado don’t swim in cooler weather? Wimps! Season pass for a Golden resident Senior (60+) is $132. A season pass that covers both Crystal Lake and Gath for a Newton Senior (62+) is $20.
Julia, there already is lap swimming at the inexpensive nearby YMCA — I used to be a regular freestyle lap swimmer there and nearly always available. Then there are other lap swimming venues nearby in Newton. And outdoors in summer, longer distance swimmers can easily use Crystal Lake.
Moreover, density of summer usage at Gath generally precludes lap swimming, except for sometimes one lane.
Just sayen.
I mentioned the possibility of a indoor facility to my 24 year old son visiting for vacation. He said ” what? !, that’s where we used to just hang and play pickup basketball, no adults around!”
Indeed, perhaps things then, when I thought there wasn’t enough unstructured play, are even worse now.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/opinion/sunday/childhood-suicide-depression-anxiety.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share
Perhaps I’m just nostalgic, but it seems that losing an open air basketball court where there’s “no adults” around is sad to me, because I remember a time when I too would just hear a ball bouncing and then go join a game with some friends. Everything becomes overdone with our generation, especially the wealthy areas. The open air basketball park in Waltham seems always busy when I drive by in the summer.
The Splash Park link is just an idea and example of a modern innovation that improves the recreaction aspect of the daily quality of life for the residents. Details would be worked out. Don’t let this minor point get in the way of the overall goals.
By chance yesterday I happened upon the Senior Center in Gloucester. It’s relatively new and located on a busy street adjacent to restaurants, a pharmacy and a bank.
According to the last census Gloucester has a population of approximately 30,000, with 15.6% over the age of 65 and around 11.4% individuals over the age of 65 living alone. The median income of the entire town was $59,000.
It saddens me that a community like Gloucester can somehow manage to build a facility devoted to seniors and senior services while Newton can’t even seem to agree on the need for a replacement for the grossly inadequate current Senior Center.
The Senior Center is much more than simply a fitness center for old people.
Joan, I am not seeing anyone posting here arguing against the need for a better Senior Center. But Senior Center is the operative word. What is being proposed is not a dedicated Senior Center. It is a community center with some programming for Seniors. And the proposed location would not be adjacent to the amenities in such as in Gloucester. The current Senior Center is, which is why that building should be renovated and then augmented with perhaps a second location and partnerships with organizations such as the Y and JCC.
my Son reminded me that when there was a baseball or football game at the Albemarle field they would use that extra light to play basketball into the evening.
When I was a boy, the public courts had lights where I lived. I believe the public courts in Waltham have lights.
Outside lighting for tennis and basketball make a big difference in usage, especially when it’s the heat of summer and it’s cooler at night. I’m sure the tennis courts at Newton North are lit.
Anyways what’s my point? I guess I wonder how many teenagers are going to want to hang out at a place where there’s adults.
Joan – Despite repeating many times that we support a new expanded senior center, people who do not support the community center for a variety of reasons are accused of not supporting one. I would love to know why it is that this statement is repeated over and over. It is simply inaccurate.
My concern is that the mayor has stated repeatedly that the budget is tight. Someone has to tell the community what will NOT be happening if this community center is funded from the operating budget.
Once again, I have not heard one person say that they oppose building a new senior center. That is not what this building is.
Joan-The placement of the Gloucester senior center seems perfect: adjacent to other amenities and in the midst of the community.
Jane, sounds like the placement of Newton’s current Senior Center 🙂
Joan, Jane, Claire
Gloucester’s Senior Center is my hometown’s senior center that my mom (76) and her sisters utilize. this is exactly why I found is it hard to understand the argument that old people don’t want to hang out with other old people. Gloucester’s Senior Center is a vibrant community oriented gem in the center of the city. Before being elected mayor, Gloucester’s mayor had a successful career as a senior health advocate.
If Newton’s mayor is so concerned about the the cost of this project why propose a community center / Senior Center? I would think that broadening the scope of the senior center to include service s for the whole community would be a much more costly project?
Mike – I completely agree with you. When I had babies, I wanted people to discuss new motherhood. When the kids were teenagers, the topic was how to deal with adolescent/parental angst. At every age, we want contact with people who “get” what we’re going through. So yeah, I like being with other seniors a lot. We gloat about grandkids, talk about the aches and pains then laugh about it. That’s just one reason why a senior center is so important – it provides the space for same-generational conversations.
One of the major advantages of the Gloucester center is that it’s not set off in a place that isolates seniors from daily life. It’s in the middle of town, near stores that provide for the daily needs – a pharmacy, grocery store, etc – and authentic intergenerational social contact.
The concern about the real cost of the community center isn’t coming from the administration. An expanded senior center may very well cost $16m – a sum that’s not likely to need funding from the operating budget, and I hear a lot of support for such a designated space.
In the late Spring I had the opportunity to visit the Senior Center in Northampton with my sister. It is, again, a relatively new, large center, Leeds Certified with geothermal heating and cooling and other neat features including extended hours evenings and weekends. It is located adjacent to housing for elderly and disabled folks, and is within easy walking distance of a bank. Diagonally across the street is one of the Commonwealth’s first recreational marijuana stores.
Among its varied programs the center is the site of one of the area’s farmers markets. The extended hours specifically targets the exercise/fitness equipment room use.
According to the most recent census Northampton has a population of approximately 28.5 individuals. Within that population 13.5% are over the age of 65 and 11.5% are over the age of 65 and living alone. The average household income is reported to be around %57,000.
I don’t care what the center is called. And if other community uses are scheduled when the facility isn’t being used for senior activities, that’s fine too. Why can’t Newton produce a center at least as good, at least as forward looking, as Northampton?
Oops! I misspoke. The should have been the median household income is $57,000, not average.
Joan – That sounds like a great senior center that’s close to amenities and services seniors could use and enjoy. It’s also focused on senior services. Public facilities designated for one purpose (education, city services, the current senior center) are often used for meetings, debates, etc. as well they should be, so any senior center built in Newton can and should be used for by other groups at other times of the day/evening when seniors are not using it.
People aren’t concerned about the senior center part of this project. It’s the additional space for the community center without a fiscally responsible funding mechanism that’s my issue. If it was funded through a debt exclusion override, I’d have no problem at all with it.
As for the siting, several city leaders from the southside have mentioned/lamented the lack of recreational facilities in that part of the city. I’d thought about a pharmacy, supermarket, etc, but you mention several other amenities that could enhance the senior experience.
I wouldn’t be discouraged. Through the discussion, several important and interesting ideas have been raised. This can and will happen!
Great discussion of ideas going on here. I just want to encourage those who haven’t already to take a quick look at the video of The Center for Active Living in Plymouth.
It’s classic and attractive inside and out with great programming. It’s focused on seniors of all ages and interests becoming a community. With a kitchen, dining area, nice sized multi-purpose room, health room, etc. There are sponsored hikes off-campus on trails, exercise programs and pottery classes , painting classes and groups. They also ask for recommendations of more things to do from seniors. I think it would be great here and call for a much smaller space and cost.
This is the link directly to the short you tube video. I highly recommend watching it.
https://youtu.be/0hMdLvZAOhI
Just as an aside, one of the selling points many senior pro-Austin Street housing advocates made was the location of the senior center right in Newtonville Center and how wonderful it would be to have housing near the senior center for downsizing seniors who would move into the Austin Street development – to be able to access all of the shopping, the drug store, supermarket, restaurants, public transit and of course, the Senior Center. Hmm…..
Marti — I took the opportunity to visit the Plymouth senior center earlier in the summer when I met a friend for lunch in Plymouth. It too is a relatively new center. It is adjacent to one of the high schools and overlooks the school’s athletic field and track. Their lunch program is provided from the high school food service. The site, however, is significantly removed from any amenities. And I don’t know if there is adequate public transportation serving the area.
The feature that struck me as inspired and forward thinking,however, was what appeared to be the ability to expand the facility by adding an additional floor without needed major structural construction.
All of the centers that I’ve visited have a whole variety of programs in addition to those focused on physical fitness. There is a tab on the NewCAL project page in the City of Newton Public Buildings Department site that has links to 40 or more senior centers in cities and towns throughout eastern Massachusetts –https://newcal.projects.nv5.com/. You can get a sense of the nature and scope of programming in various communities from these sites.
“I think that the city should attempt to acquire the Citizen Bank Building in Newton Center. The building is an eye soar and is in a perfect location there is the Green line and at least two bus lines that stop right in front on Centre street. The is a very under-utilized park which would provide great green space.
The current building is two story (probably a basement as well) That site could easily accommodate three stories. There is parking behind and a low rise garage could easily be built.
The city could retain and renovate the current Senior Center and add this as a second location.”
I want to build on my previous post which I have pasted above for context. I don’t know if the adjacent parking lot behind Walgreens is owned by Walgreens…I rather doubt it. But regardless, I think the city should acquire that and build a garage that could provide parking for the Senior Center AND replace parking in the triangle which would be turned into…guess what…a park! Then the whole footprint of the current Citizen’s Bank Building and lot could be used for a Senior Center. Perfectly situated in Newton Center
The “Save the Parks” poll keeps chugging along.
https://www.change.org/p/mayor-ruthanne-fuller-save-newton-s-parks
There are still no Minutes of at least two NewCAL Working Group meetings in July – one in early July, and the one in the last week of July at which Albemarle was selected. According to this response to my public records request on Aug 5. I will make a new request, but I suggest others do so as well, lest they continue to put off writing them until after the September community meeting, or never.
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Public Record Requests
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Minutes of all meetings about NewCAL since May 21, including but not limited to meeting in the last week of July, for which minutes were apparently not yet done when I made my previous request on July 31.
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August 5, 2019 via web
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The City has finalized its review of your request for public records. A search of all public records in the custody and control of the City reveals that there are no documents responsive to your request. This completes the City’s response.
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August 21, 2019, 8:39am
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The City has received your request for public records pursuant to M.G.L. c. 66. In accordance with c. 66, the City will respond within ten business days unless an extension is required to comply with this request. If the response takes more than two hours to fulfill, the City may charge a reasonable fee including $.05 per copy and up to $25 per hour. The City will notify you of any cost prior to fulfilling the request.
In accordance with the state regulations pertaining to public records, you have the right to appeal the response to your request for records to the Supervisor of Public Records pursuant to 950 CMR 32.08.
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@Julia Done.
@Greg btw preview gives me “Preview Error”. Also, I no longer get email notifications of follow up comments.
The Mayor states in her August 13 Albemarle NewCAL notice, “In the coming weeks and months, the City will work with many stakeholders to CONFIRM [Albemarle] is the right site and to develop the site plan with the help of the architectural team. … While the Albemarle site will be discussed at length, the City will continue to consider non-city-owned sites UNTIL A FINAL PROPOSAL IS SENT to the City Council.” (emphasis added)
It appears then, at this stage, the City Administration is addressing the question of NewCAL siting essentially as being Albemarle Park versus a yet unidentified non-city-owned site. This generates a number of questions for which I know many Newton residents would like response from the Mayor:
1. Why are city-owned non-park sites (or combination of sites) being excluded from consideration? I’m aware that there have been a number of suggestions from the public.
2. As to non-city-owned sites being considered, will the public be informed along the way as to which sites those are or may be? Again, I’m aware that there have been a number of suggestions from the public.
3. How can sites currently be assessed since the scope of NewCAL has yet to be determined and/or confirmed, which has great bearing as to a site or combination of sites? For instance, the Albemarle proposal is NOT really a Senior Center; it IS a major athletic complex with apparently a few side rooms reserved for senior use and activities which may take priority when there is conflict with non-senior use, which leads to a fourth question.
4. Will alternative scopes for the proposed project be considered and reviewed, and if so, will a process be established in order that the public be informed and involved for input along the way in reaching a final decision as to scope, so that a repeat of the current “Save Newton’s Parks [from NewCAL]” petition will not be necessary, already garnering well over 5,000 signatures (and growing), https://www.change.org/p/mayor-ruthanne-fuller-save-newton-s-parks
I filed a records request as Julia did and got the same response. Apparently there are no meeting minutes?
I found myself curious about other cities that implemented a NewCAL type of model. I didn’t come up with much. This was my highest rated search result but none sound much like NewCal. My search parameter was “Senior center shared with community”
https://www.aarp.org/livable-communities/livable-in-action/info-2017/shared-space-solutions.html
I am left asking why can’t Newton Seniors have their own dedicated space? We don’t ask schools to share their space with Seniors. But maybe we should. Then we wouldn’t have to build a new gym w/retractable bleachers and a pool
There is no requirement to have meeting minutes because the group is advisory to the Mayor and not subject to the open meeting law. That being said, it’s kind of hard to believe that no one took any minutes…..they are just not legally required to share them. Bad call IMHO.
hmmm.
Who owns the Citizen Bank Building?
Cressly LLC:Company Type Foreign Limited Liability Company (LLC)
Who owns the entire land mass where Walgreens and the parking lot is located?
YU SHENG HSIUNG & CHANG O of Brookline
Who owns 12-14 Lyman street parking lot?
NEWTON COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
FOUNDATION II INC
The city just needs to acquire it all through imminent domain and build a Senior Center in Newton Center
Another potential site for a new Senior Center is the space vacated by The Container Store at The Street. It is very large space and while it isn’t a central location, it has a lot to offer: size, parking, public transit, proximity to store, restaurants and close to large senior population at the CH Towers