The N-Squared Innovation District has a much-needed amenity. Today the Stop & Shop finally opened up in the Newton Nexus shopping center.
Now, before we start getting the complaints about traffic and parking just one note: that shopping center has more than 500 parking spaces. For perspective, the entire shopping district of Newton Centre has about half that (not including the surrounding neighborhoods). And I’m sure many people will comment about the long-lasting fight over a much bigger store that had been proposed right next door in what is now the Avalon Apartments.
Now that we have all those people in Avalon, they need a place to shop.
This is the first Stop & Shop of its kind, both in terms of the store concept and the overall brand. This store has all the basic shopping needs but centers around the grab-and-go options for a fast lunch and dinner. It also features an in-store smoker, kombucha filling station, and curbside pickup. It’s about 20,000 square feet, which is smaller than most other supermarkets.
In short, this is designed as a “neighborhood” concept with an increased focus on prepared foods and fresh, locally sourced produce. There is even a counter designed for people to sit (with plugs) and do a bit if work while enjoying a sandwich made on artisan bread. It’s also the first with the branding that will soon roll out to all stores.
Only longtime Newton residents can appreciate the humor and irony of this.
This is sort of like a boutique Stop and Shop, as opposed to the super Stop and Shop which was rejected years ago.
It may be a boutique concept, but they actually have a stellar selection of products, better than most area supermarkets. I suspect that they’ve got a big-data, algorithmic understanding of exactly what the customer demographic is looking for (they hit the nail on the head for us, at least).
On the other hand, the checkout experience is not optimal – they saved a lot of space by completely eliminating the usual conveyor-belt registers, and about 90 percent of the registers are of the self-service, elbow-to-elbow, scan-the-item-and-place-it-directly-in-the-bag variety.
Sudden thought: maybe the goal of the reduced checkout area is to have customers avoid the checkout process completely, by using the portable self-scanners you can attach to your shopping cart (i.e. scan the items as you take them off the shelves and put them directly into your bag, then go straight to the exit when you’re done).
If so, that would be quite logical, although I don’t remember seeing those devices in the store today.
@Michael: What kind of products do they offer that you can’t find in other places?
I’m very happy to finally have a grocery store I can walk to.
@Newtoner:
– good vegetarian selection
– good ethnic selection
– good kosher selection
– good European selection (Stop & Shop is a sister company of Holland’s Albert Heijn)
– a lot of unique artisanal products from local vendors (e.g. we picked up some delicious muhammara that was made by Magic Bites of Arlington)
– the bakery bread is delicious and thankfully avoids crap like the human-hair derivative L-cysteine that pops up in bread from other mainstream supermarkets.
I wonder what will happen to Baza now.
Newton should have accepted the proposal of the first Stop & Shop years ago.
Allowing the monstrous Avalon on Needham St. as a substitute has overcrowded the Countryside School with adverse impacts on the student population and area traffic.
Hear hear! People and children suck (unless they can afford to buy McMansions), and I wish they would stay away.
I myself fully paid my way through my K-12 classes, at zero cost to others in the community, and I built much of Newton’s infrastructure with my own bare hands. I urge others, especially these johnny-come-latelies, to do the same, rather than expect me to pay for them.
You people want to come live here, then you build your own school and highways, capisce? Stop adversely impacting my life.
Does anyone recall why the original Super Stop and Shop with all the improvements to Needham Street was rejected in favor of the Avalon Apartments which have cost the Newton taxpayers dearly in terms of the 25k+ it has cost the taxpayers for each student added to the school system each year, coupled with no Needham Street improvements at the time. Where were our lawmakers to make such a costly error. Only the Avalon developers came out ahead – subsidized by the taxpayers.
I don’t see other people’s children as a tax burden. Our foremost obligation as a society should be to build a better world for future generations. I no longer have a school age kid but I’m willing to contribute my fair share to educating other children just as generations did before me. That includes the families at Avalon and other future developments.
Ironically, our civic leaders made the reverse error a number of years ago in Newton Corner where apartments would have greatly improved the area but because of height limitations they were rejected in favor of cold empty office buildings and perpetually failing retail and restaurants.
Jim,
I wonder how much property tax Avalon is paying Newton? Surely, that amount should cover the students unless all units are occupied with children?
Greg, can we forgo the societal obligation issue for now — and let’s discuss dollars and cents (and BTW re societal benefit, it might be preferable to have vouchers and private schools in lieu of public, but that’s not relevant to this discussion).
Now, for every kid that goes to Newton public schools, it costs say $25K+ in Newton public funds. So, in terms of dollars and cents, it’s most likely a net loss for every household with a kid or kids in Newton Public Schools. So, if a significant number of households in Avalon have a kid or kids, that would far exceed the tax revenue generated — hence an additional cost to Newton, hence, the taxpayers, for each additional kid. Correct, Greg?
I think Baza will be OK because it is an ethnic specialty store that caters to our large population of immigrants from Russia and Eastern Europe. I drop in there from time to time, including this Thanksgiving, when its being open saved the day.
When a petition for a special permit comes before the City Council, only that petition can be considered. So to Jim Epstein’s comment: “Does anyone recall why the original Super Stop and Shop with all the improvements to Needham Street was rejected in favor of the Avalon Apartments which have cost the Newton taxpayers dearly in terms of the 25k+ it has cost the taxpayers for each student added to the school system each year, coupled with no Needham Street improvements at the time. Where were our lawmakers to make such a costly error.”
There was no choice. The Council votes the petition as presented up or down. Avalon was a Chapter 40B project which trumps local zoning and goes directly to the Zoning Board of Appeals. With Newton not meeting the 10% requirement or the 1.5% land area requirement for affordable housing, the Zoning Board of Appeals had no choice but to allow the Avalon Bay on Needham Street and other Chapter 40B proposals.
Amy, are you saying that Avalon trumped Super Stop and Shop because of 40B, or in other words, even if Newton favored Super Stop and Shop instead of Avalon, it HAD TO go with Avalon because of 40B; or were there other independent reasons why Newton rejected Super Stop and Shop, thereafter leaving it vacant and open to a 40B project? Please correct me if I’m wrong and/or clarify. Thanks.
No. Stop and Shop came in as a special permit/site plan approval and was rejected by the City Council/Board of Aldermen. Then a developer came in, Avalon – who went before the Zoning Board of Appeals and requested a Chapter 40B project and got it approved. Two separate petitions.
So Newton Bd. of Aldermen apparently had no inkling that rejecting Super Stop and Shop would leave the land open to 40B?
@Jim – there was a lot of opposition to putting a large Stop & Shop there due to traffic concerns. I don’t remember any discussion of the possibility that a 40B would swoop in. Remember, this was a couple of decades ago, when it wasn’t as salient an issue yet.
Chapter 40B developments are always a possibility as long as the City has not met it’s affordable housing requirement. The Council cannot base it’s decision on whether some entity will move forward with a 40B proposal or not.
Greg,
Your generosity to offer to pay more to educate more children is admirable. However, this should not be shoved down the throats of people who feel differently or unable to pay (e.g. seniors on fixed incomes)
Erecting a high density tower so 1000 new families with children can attend schools in an already overcrowded school system would be called ‘stupidity’ and not ‘generous’ in my book.
Stopped by today and was thoroughly impressed. As Michael said, lots of fresh produce, lots of products catering to vegetarians and vegans. This will be a nice store to have around.
As for Baza, it is very much a niche store specializing in Russian favorites, so I anticipate it will do just fine.
I look forward to visiting the new store and seeing what will likely be the supermarket of the future.
BTW, does anyone know for sure how many children (if any) that Avalon has contributed to the schools?
Ted.
Theres a report from newton. About 30% of units occupy school aged children. There’s no way the property tax can cover this because its constant. As renters move out, replaced with other renters with children
If you search google: avalon newton school enrollment
Its the first 2 results
Bugek, given your rhetoric I assume you have no kids, but were you ever a kid? If so, my parents truly regret having had the cost of your education shoved down their throats.
Bugek, and unfortunately were it not for the stranglehold of the teachers unions, many parents would opt for a voucher of say 50% of Newton’s cost per public school kid, in order to apply to and attend a private school of their choice. This would be a win win win situation for Newton saving expense, solving overcrowded schools, and giving parents choice. But again, solely the stranglehold of teachers unions on our political process (while govt. workers should never have been allowed to unionize in the first place) prevents all this.
And another thing Bugek – I’m sure if you talk to any of the kids living in Avalon, they’re pretty furious that their generation is going to have to pay for most of your Social Security benefits, your senior services, the majority of your healthcare costs (whether private or Medicare – your contributions likely won’t begin to pay the costs you’re going to incur), and generally have to cover your massive burden to society heading into old age.
Michael, Medicare and Social Security are federal obligations covered largely by the Federal Reserve printing money out of thin air, lending it to the Govt., and the Govt. paying it back with depreciated dollars due to inflation, if it ever pays it back. Local public schools are a direct and immediate expense to local taxpayers — the more kids, the more expense. Again, vouchers with private schools would go a long way to solving the problem created by Avalon’s inundation of students to overcrowded schools.
Michael – I assume you didn’t have kids at Countryside when Avalon opened?
Jim, by design Social Security and Medicare obligations are covered primarily by the growth of the workforce and passing the burden along to the next generation.
But inflation does end up playing a big role in municipal finances, and that’s because real estate values (the primary source of local revenue) have far exceeded wage inflation (the primary local expenditure).
Specifically, Newton RE tax collections have pretty consistently increased at about 4.1% annually, while spending on Newton Public Schools has increased about 15 basis points less.
If you look back at the year Avalon was constructed (2003), RE tax revenues were $182 million, vs. $342 million in 2019 (4.10% CAGR), but school spending was $122 million vs. $226 million in 2019 (3.95% CAGR). And Chapter 70 aid from the Commonwealth has grown at around 5%. Add to that the fact that Newton is actually lowering its residential and commercial RE tax rates in 2019, by quite a bit.
So: you can forget about trying to make the argument that more pupils have put the city in a worse financial position.
Tricia: No, I didn’t. But cities grow, and they have a responsibility to educate all of their children. If Countryside enrollment and/or redistricting and/or NPS capital expenditures were mismanaged, that’s unfortunate, but at the end of the day the kids who lived in Avalon obviously had as much right to an education as yours.
Michael, even assuming all your numbers are correct (and going forward, it’s doubtful those rates would remain), Newton and taxpayers certainly would have saved expense, then, now and in the future, if it wasn’t required to deal with the influx of Avalon students.
And Amy, where does it say Council couldn’t or can’t base it’s decisions, such as rejecting Super Stop and Shop, in part based on projecting the possibility of a 40B type Avalon project coming down the road. Certainly that could have been part of the debate.
Michael,
Theres a difference between supporting ones owns community and intentionally overcrowding schools into an already crowded school system.
With just natural growth the schools are crowded. Shoving another 1000 or so kids so that a developer can get rich or for social engineering is stupidity..
If newton forced due to state federal laws then we dont have much choice and we should deal with it. But to create an influx by choice is stupid and irresponsible
Jim, the Council acts as a quasi-judicial body basing it’s decision on the petition before them. I wasn’t on the Council when they voted on the Stop and Shop petition.
Amy. a decision on a particular petition is not or should not be made in a vacuum. Surrounding circumstances, such as projecting other, more delitorious impacting uses which may befall a parcel should be considered in weighing a particular petition. To do less is a dereliction in decision-making. Case in point: Costly to the community Avalon Apts. with no major supermarket nearby forcing Newtonians to drive more to reach one.
Michael – the overcrowding at Countryside was a terrible disservice to ALL students, and it lasted for many years. It was much more than “unfortunate”. My point is not that new housing shouldn’t be added and new families shouldn’t be welcomed. It’s that the “just build it and worry about the consequences later” attitude guarantees a poor outcome, and parents’ very negative experiences with overcrowded schools contributes to the resistance to new development.
Jim-A $12,500 voucher doesn’t come close to covering private school tuition. School vouchers are basically welfare for the well-off – and funding lost to the school system that serves the vast majority of Newton families.
Jane, precisely the opposite. For every student opting out of public school, Newton saves 25k+, and many parents would grab a 50% vohcher to be able to choose.
We went to the new Stop & Shop yesterday and it was a great experience, and after living here for 29 years, we are thrilled to have a good grocery store within walking distance. How do these threads get hijacked into criticism of the overcrowding of schools and Avalon apartments and 40 B projects? Love to hear what people think of the new Stop & Shop, and start a distinct thread on development and numbers of students enrolling in NPS.
Tricia, I agree that if the mismanagement of increased enrollment disrupted students’ education, then it was inexcusable.
Newton does not lack resources, and new residential developments did not put the city in a disadvantageous position in terms of overall funding, so the government should have been more adept at planning for the influx.
Unfortunately, beginning in the late-1970s and early-1980s the communities in suburban Boston made a number of boneheaded disinvestment decisions that limited their ability to respond to increases in enrollment, and from what I’ve seen, capital planning for school facilities continues to take place with a very limited horizon and no contingencies. Hopefully the city at least learned some lessons from Countryside.
Please tell me that I’m not the only one tiring of Mayor Fuller’s inauthentic photo ops. I was at an event for children and saw her pretending to bend over and talk to kids for a photo op.
(Wrote that wrong – I meant to type that I saw her bending down and pretending to talk to kids for a photo op)
Jim – Are you talking about a state voucher program? That’s never happening. Did you pay attention to the results of Question 2 in 2016 (lifting the cap for the opening of more charter schools/year)? Voters resoundingly defeated it. Imagine how a voucher program would go over with the electorate.
Have you seen the tuition for local private schools recently? Most are over $40,000. So that means only those families who have an extra $15-$20,000 hanging around each year for 13 years could manage to cover the difference – and $30-$40,000 if you plan to use vouchers for private school for two kids. Sorry, but that’s called welfare for the well-off.
Jane, I’m not talking about charter schools. If vouchers are provided, who says schools have to be government run? Just look at the deterioration in public schools in America, especially since (1) the allowance of govt. workers to unionize (i.e. teachers unions starting in 1961) and (2) the creation of the Federal Department of Education (in 1977). When Horace Mann created the idea of public education in the 19th century, it was to insure an educated civic minded voter to guarantee American values. Ironically, our public schools have evolved into promoting first and foremost multiculturalism and diversity, tearing at the fabric of those same traditionally American values. (Just ask the inner city minority family whether they’d rather have their kid go to a voucher paid private school in lieu of the failing and dangerous public school system. If ‘liberals’ truly cared about them, they’d allow that to happen; but unfortunately the teachers unions, taking over a large part of the political process, will NEVER let that happen.)
And, Jo-Louise Allen, as far as discussing the Avalon Apts. negative impact (overcrowding schools) in lieu of a Super Stop and Shop many years ago, it was the original moderator of this thread that interjected that issue.
Funny how times have changed. When the neighborhood turned down the expansion of their Memorial Drive store in Cambridge (the current Micro Center), Stop & Shop refused to renovate the store and pulled out.
Not only that, they were so certain that a small store could never work that they allowed a competitor, Trader Joe’s, to open on the same property. Ultimately, that opened the door for the Whole Foods on Mem. Drive to become a primary grocery store for the neighborhood.
Now, Stop & Shop’s newest store is half the size of the Micro Center building and less than double the size of that Trader Joe’s.
@Mike Halle – not only that, they had a small store on Rte. 9 & Elliot St. that they closed when they were pushing for the big Stop & Shop that was turned down where Avalon is, which is now CVS.
Perhaps the smaller store is a reflection of the retailocalypse. Establishments with a smaller footprint that focus on ready made food appear to be the future of supermarkets given the realities of today’s harried existence. It wouldn’t have worked in the 1980s and 1990s, but perhaps it will today.
Aesthetically the Avalon does nothing in adding any beauty to Needham St. or the neighborhood. The rental community overlooks MacDonald’s and a gas station.
The smaller store is really a reflection of a changing market. Big companies tend to be slower to change by very nature, and this one grew out of a bfresh brand that has since faded away.
My guess is that the big push to change comes from the Amazon-Whole Foods combination. Add to that the smaller Amazon stores that are going into commercial properties (similar to what they launched in Seattle) and you can see that things they are a-changing!
Also, the modern supermarket as we know it emerged because of the car, the trunk and the big refrigerators Americans put in their homes after WWII (the Newtonville Star is a great example of this). As living conditions get smaller and people shift to transportation on bikes and in shared cars, you no longer have access to the big trunks. So why do you need a store that is going to give you huge packages to carry out?
Chuck, I think it’s even a different change. People don’t have time to cook during the week. In addition, many singles and families have higher standards for dinner than my family, for instance, ever had growing up. Work is intruding into what used to be home time. Definitely no time for sit-down restaurants; even take-out might be too much, or too expensive.
For many, what options are there but to pick up food and eat at home?
If smaller stores with an emphasis on takeout is the way things are going, then maybe hope is not lost for once again seeing a grocery store in Newton Centre. Back to the future with Sage’s redux.
Honestly, I think that the reported floor space figure of this S&S can be deceiving – compare the floor-space taken up by conveyor-belt registers in an older supermarket (maybe 20%) to the space of the self-checkouts in this new store (maybe 5%).
RIP, Purity Supreme! And thank you Meredith, for inspiring me to look it up, and reminding me why I always associated that supermarket chain with a bow-tie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh-zTQTdy1A
Jesus Christ, I can’t believe how a supermarket can trigger some of you people so bad
Visited the store last night and was very pleased by the selections. The experience of finding and choosing my purchases was very nice. That said, the check-out experience was a disaster. I waited at the appointed station and a nice employee directed me to register 13. Except I couldn’t get to register 13 because the narrow space between the cashiers on the right and the self-checkout on the left was impossible to navigate with shoppers in queue and a (rather obtuse) customer who insisted upon waiting for her friend. When I finally made it to my appointed cashier, an individual a few feet away became so frustrated with the self-checkout that he gave up, pushed his cart aside and stormed out of the store. I spent a few minutes jockeying between being jammed up against the person at the next register trying to check out, and trying not to crowd the customer at register 13 who was in the process of checking out. Very odd experience. I won’t be going back.
Lisap, that’s a powerful narrative. In addition to that, how would you — or anyone here — compare the new market to Whole Foods at Four Corners (price, selection, etc.)?
Aren’t we overreacting a bit? So the checkout line didn’t work smoothly on the first week of the store’s operation. Not coming back? Really?
@Jim Epstein: I think it compares quite favorably to Whole Foods.
I have mixed feelings about the self-checkout trend. On the one hand, they work great if you know what you’re doing and the machines work correctly. On the other hand, when there are lines, or the machine slows down, you’re better off with an actual person. Hopefully, the new store is flexible enough to accommodate both.
It is a store meant more for picking up a few items or a smaller shopping trip. They only have the smaller shopping carts. The self checkout is just too tight. When you are moving items around you bump into those next to you. Also the small platform leads you to have to move stuff around as you bag…from cart to platform to cart. I went with my middle schooler and had a partially filled cart and it was logistically challenging. I could see where others would be frustrated. The spaghetti sauce i normally but was $11.99 whereas it is $10.99 normally at WF and $9.99 at Shaw’s. Another observation is that there is no meat counter just already packaged meat.
My general take is that I would stop there for an occasional item at off peak hours but there was not enough appeal for me to suffer through the traffic on Needham St which in my anecdotal experience is bad once again. This store is probably better suited for someone biking or walking who is looking to pick up a few staples or someone on Needham st for another purpose.
Stop & Shop has a mobile app (Scan It!) which allows you to scan and bag all of the items as you put them in your shopping cart. You do need to pass by the registers, but only to scan a single barcode on your phone.
@Newtoner,
Nope. Not going back there. The problem with the place is a design flaw. There simply is not enough room for the folks to check out with cashiers on the right, and to also use the self-service on the left. From my perspective, there are other stores that are closer and comparable. It’s something new – I wanted to check it out and I did. I like supporting local establishments. In light of the residential complexes on Needham Street, I think it’s a terrific idea to have a full grocery store there. It’s just not one that I will be using for the reasons I already stated.
Whole Food remains a different experience, though I’d point out that the WF at Four Corners is among the smallest the chain has, so it’s not like the new versions of that market either.
As for the checkout, I don’t mind the self-check, but I don’t think it’s as efficient of a system as the one at Wegman’s. The other day I bought a salad at Stop & Shop, but finding the SKU in the menu wasn’t intuitive. Wegman’s puts the SKU and Tare numbers on the containers so it’s easy to check out fast.
I think there’s a question about whether a company the size of Stop & Shop (and its corporate parent) can make the necessary adjustments for this kind of store. It has its purpose, but it’s a bit of a different animal and the competition is steep.
A while back the podcast Gatropod did a great episode on experiential shopping and how it plays out in the grocery world. Both Whole Foods and Eataly are great examples of this concept. Stop & Shop is, in a way, trying to get into that kind of experiential shopping while staying true to its base, that’s not an easy thing to do.