This morning I had the privilege of moderating a panel with six of the seven candidates for mayor (Richard Saunders was unable to attend) at a forum for business leaders sponsored by the Newton-Needham Regional Chamber. We’re working on a video of the entire event, but for now here’s a segment where I asked if they would ask voters for a property tax override during their first term in office. Only one candidate offered a definitive yes.
Speaking in order are: Amy Mah Sangiolo, Al Cecchinelli, Scott Lennon, Geoffrey Woodward, Ruthanne Fuller and Eli Katzoff.
Poor leadership, residents do not want more overrides. This city raises more money via taxes than most communities. We have significant debt just like most poorly run cities. Now is the time for more innovative thinking. There are many cities that are far more fiscally responsible than Newton.
Colleen:
You state that this city raises more money via taxes than most communities. I actually think our tax rate is reasonable, but many folks feel the squeeze because values have gone up so much in the past 15 years. But I don’t think your assertions are born out by the numbers. What we’ve made is choices, many of them rational. Localized elementary schools aren’t efficient for instance, but they are a hallmark of life in Newton.
https://www.bizjournals.com/boston/blog/bbj_research_alert/2016/01/massachusetts-property-tax-rates-in-2016-by-town.html
See link for possible data for your argument (or lack thereof). I think you’ll find we are right in the pack for similar cities. Not that Newton can’t do things better or make improvements, but I’m not buying the fiscally irresponsible line, at least in comparison to other cities in MA. We’ve got a great bond rating, even with some large projects on the books. That alone is one metric that doesn’t meet your argument.
I’d be ok with an override, expecially to address infrastructure that improves life in Newton. Schools, sewer/water, roads, sidewalks, trees, village improvements, transportation improvements, building over the Pike, dealing with our pension issue, etc.
Wouldn’t be easy, but I’d understand the need.
Our principal and interest on bonds for capital projects are about 5.7% of Newton expenditures for FY 2017. This compares to 7.4% spent by five AAA-rated “comparable communities” reported out by the CAG in 2009. If we raise our bonded indebtedness by another percent or so we may be able to carry out the Lincoln-Eliot-Aquinas project which is next up after Cabot. But I don’t see how we pay for subsequent projects identified in the CIP, including major work at Countryside, Franklin, Horace Mann, Ward, a new police building, Fire Stations 1 and 2, and Williams School, without an override.
That’s just buildings. We also have a $1 billion OPEB obligation. And we have upward pressure on employee compensation, especially at our schools where this pressure is compounded by growing enrollment.
Yes, its lovely to talk about expanding our commercial tax base, increasing the revenues from public/private partnerships, improving productivity wherever this can happen, and eliminating waste. And yes, these items are smart for Newton to pursue under any circumstance but as I’ve watched our budget over the last decade I have no expectation that these efforts will do more than slightly diminish our need for additional revenue. Once the analysis is done, and we absolutely must start with a very thorough analysis of our current financial landscape, I assume our conclusion will be that an override is the only path to supporting these objectives.
There is a lot already on my non-comprehensive list. And we have many residents with tapped out, low or fixed incomes, for whom an override of any size is a burden. So when considering a future override, we will have to achieve a familiar balancing act – how can we accomplish the most while causing the least amount of financial hurt to our taxpayers? As a sitting School Committee member, I am looking forward to partnering with our next mayor to help find this balance.
@fignewtonville, you stated, “but many folks feel the squeeze because values have gone up so much in the past 15 years” but that’s not even how real estate taxes work in Massachusetts. first the city sets the budget, then the rates are set based on valuations.
An override is a MUST ask question for each candidate and to this point increasing spending beyond the 2.5% increase which doesn’t require a vote so it usually happens, is unsustainable and completely contrary to demands to make Newton more affordable.
So refreshing to hear Amy Sangiolo’s one word response to this question, based on her years of experience and insights. No hemming and hawing or trying to make her answer more politically acceptable. Great job, Amy!
The increase in costs are driven by school enrollment and transportation infrastructure both of which is due to increase of high density housing.
Why should the current residents bear all the burden? It would only be fair to introduce a “high density housing” tax to cover the increase.
A parcel of land which used to house 4 families now houses 15 or 20. The tax would make up the discrepancy
Bugek- Look at the tear down rates in the city. These replacement homes aren’t creating density.
The NPS enrollment reports point directly to an increase in the population of families who have 3/4-year-olds approaching school age.
@Jane,
I have to respectfully disagree with you.
When I see small Capes / Ranches being torn down and replaced with 2 families quadruple the size, I would say that adds density.
Properties are also Sub-divisided and multi-million dollar properties are not immune from being town down to make way for 2 or more houses.
It seems logical to conclude that older generations are moving out on these properties and being replaced with families approaching school age.
Jane
If that’s really the case, there should be no harm in introducing a x% surcharge on any LUXUARY condo with 4 units or more.
Instead of paying say 1.2% property tax year they will pay 1.7%.. No tears will be shed for folks who pay 800k-1m for 2br condos, they can afford the extra 3000-5000 in taxes a year
Helps to keep a balance of density and services
Sorry but any candidate committed to an override during their first term without looking for efficiencies and streamlining doesn’t get my vote. We have to end the constant tax and spend mentality. Working families are already taxed to death. Time for the next Mayor to reach out to our tax exempt institutions and request payments in lieu of taxes.
I think if you give a definitve answer to this question you’re pandering to one segment of the population or the other. In my very limited opinion, it would be very unwise to go into a 4 year term and say we wont have an override, when no one person knows what type of emergency(ies) may arise 2 or 3 years from now.
Regardless of ones position on overrides, for any override to pass in the city there would have to be proven a very serious need for the extra taxes.
@Bugek – I did a deep dive into the budget the last time this came up on V14, and increased enrollment is responsible for a relatively small % of the issues on the school budget side. The bigger financial issues for the schools are that both (1) pay and (2) health care for the existing employee base are pretty much locked in to increase at rates well over 2.5%. The first item is a matter of paying for something we’ve already agreed to: most (including me) were in favor of the most recent teachers’ contract. As for the second item, I don’t think Newton is fixing the US health care cost crisis all on our own.
I’m not thrilled with the prospect of another override, but I believe that we’ve already made the decisions to get ourselves there, and now it’s just a matter of paying the proverbial piper. Amy’s answer – along with the amount of time it took to get there – was (unfortunately) probably the correct one.
Trying to be objective here:
– Greg’s former secret identity as a journalist came nicely into play holding a few pairs of feet to the fire.
– Disappointing immediate dismissal of various other means to raise revenue. While they may not add up to enough to avoid an override these avenues must be explored and exhausted FIRST. To do otherwise is both a politically poor road to travel at best and insulting to tapped-out taxpayers at worst. Such a dismissive toss aside of the free ride that non-profits enjoy is disappointing. Bring back Mike Striar for Mayor. Seriously.
– Unsatisfactory fluffernutter answers from the other two incumbents.
– Overrides should be on table if necessary. But it’s not another tool on the table, it is absolutely the last tool. Overheard in Village Bank in 2002, two months after passage of that devastating override, between two gentlemen in their 70’s who were greeting each other and obviously hadn’t been close friends from the surface conversation and greeting. It must have really been bothering the first fellow next to me to say almost immediately to his ‘friend’, “I don’t know how long I can afford to stay here. The property taxes are really getting out of control.”
Second fellow: “Really? Hm. Too bad. Well, do you have any money in any 401K you can pull out to pay it?”
Yeah. It’s that easy.
My personal biggest regret of things not accomplished that following year is tracking and investigating how many people, particularly seniors, had to move out of Newton in 2003 because too many of my neighbors and elected officials were Fellow #2 in their cavalier attitude. Coming to a conclusion honestly is one thing, not thinking through ramifications and dismissing hardships is something else.
It will be the weekend before I have time to watch this. Which candidate gave a definite yes?
We continue to have schools that are in desperate need of either a comprehensive renovation or rebuilding. These projects will need a dedicated funding source in order to be completed in a fiscally responsible manner and that most likely will/should be a debt exclusion override.
Not sure I agree with Amy, but it takes a lot of courage to answer this question with a straight “yes”. No soundbites – “I’ll examine every line in the budget blah blah blah, great schools blah blah blah” – just an straight answer.
@Meredith: I am the candidate that gave a definitive “Yes”. Is it because I want to raise your taxes and not look at other options? Of course not. As I’ve said repeatedly, we have to look at growing our commercial tax base (reliance on residential development alone is not sustainable), we have to go to our non-profits and negotiate hard for strong PILOT and SILOT agreements, we have to look at other options on our health care and do the data collection/benchmarking and see where we can go, and YES – we do have to continue to look at where we can cut costs and I’m certainly going to look at administrative costs – but all of these take time. If this City wants to achieve all the things I am hearing as I go door-to-door, then it will take a large investment of resources to get any of these things accomplished and if we want to pay off our existing debt. If we want to increase our commercial tax base – then we’re going to have to make serious financial investment in our infrastructure in order to attract them. I am being straightforward and honest. I’ve been on the Council for 20 years – I know what our financial picture looks like. I happen to be someone who doesn’t want to pitch an “OH MY GOODNESS – THE SKY IS FALLING” OVERRIDE – I’d rather just be upfront and say that we do need an override.
Now – I am not insensitive to the needs of folks struggling here. I get it. My mother is living off of her social security check – which doesn’t cover all of her medical and caregiving expenses and debt. I’m lucky that I can bring her into my home and help. I know others can’t. That’s why we have to 1) explore a means tested tax relief program to those who truly are struggling and 2)be extremely sensitive in how much we ask.
Johnathan,
How far back did your analysis go. If you go back 15 years, how much did the school population grow and did it look like a trend which continues for the next 10 years?
If the school population were to increase 20% in the next 10 years does the extra teachers and capacity still dwarf the healthcare costs? We have t even talked about unfunded pension
I’ve updated the headline here to better reflect yesterday’s discussion.
Greg, thats unfair. There were 6 people on the panel. I applaud you for inviting all the candidates, but your headline doesn’t mention the 3 non-elected officials.
I agree with Tom. As long as there are 6 candidates on the panel and speaking about an issue, the thread and headline should refer to all them. It’s just being respectful of the efforts of the people who’ve gone through the process.
After September 12th, the headline changes.
Jane and Tom: Two points.
1. All six candidates appear in the clip all of their names all appear above.
2. That said, the fairness doctrine doesn’t apply to Village 14, an independent blog. It’s nice if voters know about our non-city councilor mayoral candidates. But it’s essential that voters have the information that helps them make an educated decision about the three contestants who we all know are vying for two slots on Sept. 12. Those three candidates are indisputably Sangiolo, Fuller and Lennon.
The differences and/or lack of differences between Sangiolo’s, Lennon’s and Fuller’s answer to my override question are what matters here. That’s why I decided to call attention to that in my revised headline.
Bugek – most of the financial data I looked at was for the last 5-10 years, though I also looked at enrollment trends going back much farther. The Newton schools enrollment analysis has data and trends going back to the ’70s. Enrollment on that basis actually ends up looking more reasonable, if anything – similar total city population in the ’60s and ’70s with more kids/family.
With regard to the projection looking forward.. . the FY18 school budget was a 3.9% increase, while FTEs actually decreased slightly. The expected ~1% increase in students was eaten up entirely by slightly larger average class sizes and slightly fewer support staff/student. If we added additional staff pro rata to the new students, then yes, the budget probably increases at 4.2% or even 4.5% instead of 3.9%. But even if the student trend goes to 0 tomorrow (which would have implications for the housing market and economy), I think we’re still looking at the school budget increasing by 3.5-4% every year.
They’ve actually done a good job the last couple of years of getting the structural increases under more control than they were, say, five years ago. As long as 4% is the baseline, though, we need to get more money from somewhere, and there are limited options for doing so in a meaningful fashion. So… back to Amy’s response, unless there’s some miracle non-profit-contribution solution.
The pension that you mention is another big number that we’re already committed to, yes. One of the great things about politics that is really hard to get away with in personal or business budgets: committing to spend money without actually committing to raise that money (or even to be for spending but against the taxes that will fund that spending). The discussions make a lot more sense when we’re having them at the same time, too. Alas.
I don’t know about changing it, Tom and Jane. It has a nice ring to it! : ^)
@Councilor Sangiolo – thank you for your thoughtful answer. I greatly appreciate your willingness to be forthright on this issue.
I think that it is important to remember that when seniors move out of a large house, for whatever reason, it is typically a family with children who move in. So when my husband and I sell our house which has 4 bedrooms and two bathrooms, it is highly likely that the new owners will have children. However our children left the NPS in 1995. So my husband I have been paying taxes to educate others’ children just as those before us did….it is the American way. We no longer need a house with as many rooms that we have and we want one floor living close to public transportation. So as Newton ages, younger people with families move in…that is a major reason for an increase in the school population.
What Meredith said.
I railed for years about population and structural issues and was summarily blown off
or dismissed. Now the shoe is on the other foot, and frankly I could care not one bit. If the condition and population of the schools was good enough for my kids, it’s good enough for someone else’s kids. Absolutely will not be voting for ANY overrides EVER.
@Marcia Johnson-
I don’t know what the “american way” is or isn’t, but as someone who is getting gouged on their health care while city employees and politicians get great lifetime benefits, the “Paul Green way” is to resist continuing to have to pick up the tab for others benefit. Between the NVA embrace of Amy Sangiolo and her pro-override stance, I’ll be taking a pass on her as mayor.
I regret not being able to attend the forum. Even if I was there, I fully realize that the three city councilors are the top tier candidates who rightfully generate the most attention. The remaining four (myself included) will first have to demonstrate that our campaign is resonating with enough voters before the media and especially blogs like this give us equal or near headline billing with the clear front-runners. Understanding that, I also very much appreciate anyone who lobbies for the underdogs (like me) to not be ignored.
I got in this race because I believe voters need access to more varied choices and viewpoints at the polls in every level of government and I like to encourage involvement in the process.
I have always been an involved citizen and political / social activist, no matter where I lived. I hope that even if I come in near the bottom of the pack on election day, my candidacy will have added value to the discussions and strengthened the process, which in turn, adds strength to our democracy, which may be in peril today, with talk of Trump calling off and postponing the 2020 Presidential election.
In answer to this critical override question; I would have said a definitive NO for year one. After that, an override is the funding source of last resort; after all other options, needs, results and potentials have been fully explored and quantified. That makes an override proposal in year two pretty unlikely.
I believe in never saying never, because a mayor should not fully close the door on an issue like that. Due to the real potential of a looming budget crisis in our future, the option of last resort may (regretfully) become the best way to deal with a bad situation.
And when I say “explore every option” I’m referring even to outlier possibilities that are not on anyone’s radar. One of these outliers has earned me an endorsement from Citizens for Limited Taxation, the grassroots organization that sponsored Prop 2 1/2.
If elected mayor, I will make chasing down new and additional funding sources, coupled with responsible spending practices my top priorities. If I ever propose and champion an override, I will privately view it as a failure of (my) leadership, but I might not admit it in public at the time:-)
http://www.TheNewtonFund.org
Amy has taken a lot of heat suggesting she may ask for an override. But she’s also the only candidate who has specifically and enthusiastically taken up my challenge [issued here on v-14] to tell Newton’s property tax exempt institutions that their “free ride is over.” If institutions like Boston College were made to pay their fair share of property taxes, we would likely never need another override in Newton.If elected Mayor, I have total confidence that Amy will aggressively pursue the course of action she detailed above, seeking increased PILOT and SILOT programs with these institutions. It’s my opinion that if these cheapskate institutions paid their fair share of property taxes, it would make any override unnecessary and thus a moot point.
Yep, Greg, V14 is an “independent” blog. But if you’d spent the last 18 months reading data about the lack of contested races and listening to concerns about the “power elite”, as well as concerns about the lack of access for newcomers to Newton civic life, you might see things through a different lens.
We want contested elections, but then when people put themselves out there and take the time to get their name on the ballot, various forms of media dismiss them. Why would anyone run for office in this city if they knew perfectly well that they’d be ignored, or worse, ridiculed? Let the video speaks for itself.
Jane is making a great point. We want contested elections, but when new candidates pop up, V14 puts them through the ringer. The focus is on satire videos (Eli), high school graduation photos (Vagher), whether or not they really are candidates (Saunders), disproven allegations (Davis) , or everything under the sun ( Markiewicz). I am guilty as anyone else, but maybe, our community has to give them more a chance. The odds are already against them.
I couldn’t disagree more with Jane and Jeffrey. And I write this having been an unknown political newcomer in a mayoral race [2005], who experienced what [at that time] I considered to be unfair media scrutiny. Effectively dealing with dismissive–even insulting media coverage is a good test of character, and tiddlywinks compared to the challenges of actually being an effective office holder. When a person decides to seek a position of public trust, the burden is exclusively on them to convince voters they deserve their support. Proving you can handle negative press is just baby-step in that process, as well as an opportunity to earn people’s respect.
See, to me blogs whether they are independent or not:) are part of the media. Whether we like it or not, people read blogs for information. That makes the narrators (or whatever you call yourselves) a responsibility to be as impartial as possible in news stories. It’s different if your putting your opinion out there.
Greg, I didn’t see the Tab dismissing the current Mayor when he first ran for office. He was n0n elected candidate with zero local background and experience. You gave him every headline and every opportunity to get his name out there….now you change your mind??
You might not like the non-elected officials that are running, but they put themselves out there and deserve more respect than you or your headline provides. Just sayin’.
Hey folks, this isn’t middle school where we must to tip-toe around so we don’t hurt anyone’s tender feelings. It’s not first grade soccer either, where even the kid who never once makes contact with the ball gets a pat on the head and a trophy.
This is the election for our city’s chief executive. This is to select the person who will have stewardship over our public facilities, our schools and our safety. This is to elect the person who must lead us through tragedies and triumphs.
Anyone who can’t take a little public scrutiny on a community blog need not apply.
When independent, clear thinking, prepared, candidates come to the table (like Setti Warren did eight years ago), you bet I will take them seriously. But if they fail to offer any genuine solutions or offer any unique, informed perspective to the challenges and opportunities our city faces, then I’m not going to be fake engaged just so I won’t hurt anyone’s feelings or because they went to the trouble to collect signatures.
Rich Saunders and Eli Katzoff have both responded very maturely when they’ve come under scrutiny here and I respect them for it. Katzoff has also been quite engaging in the three debates I’ve seen. Al Cecchinelli has drifted in and out of city politics over the years. I admire them all. It will be great if they can find ways they can contribute to enhancing our city in the years to come.
Buy let’s not pretend that this is anything other than what even Rich admitted a few comments ago: This is a contest between three highly qualified city council candidates. Pretending other wise so we don’t make anyone sad does nothing help voters make a very important decision.