The Newton City Council approved both a zoning change and special permit for the Washington Place project. Both votes were 16 in favor, seven opposed and one absent.
Newton City Council approves Washington Place Project
by Greg Reibman | Jun 19, 2017 | Newton | 32 comments
One issue that was repeatedly raised was the tax implication which hinges on the number of school age children predicted to live in the apartments. I agree that a project shouldn’t be rejected because of the number of students it might attract. However, part of the developers justification for requesting the zoning change and special permit was they claimed the project would result in a net financial GAIN to the City. Thus the Council should have been questioning if what the developer proposed was in fact true: is the project a net gain or loss? Many commented the developer’s calculations were misleading and the project would in fact result in a net deficit to the City, which is typical for residential buildings.
In sum, one can argue the project is not an increase in tax revenue without discriminating against families.
How did the mayoral candidates vote?
Looking forward to our new village center!
Hope this does not get tied up in courts…
According to NVA Twitter: https://twitter.com/NewtonVillages/status/877024004086878208
Vote on rezoning: 17 yeas, 7 nays (Baker, Blazar, Gentile, Harney, Norton, Sangiolo, Yates), 1 absent (Brousal-Glaser).
The mayoral candidates have at last made their stand clear…. people can vote accordingly if they feel this issue if very important to them…
Yes, envisioning our new village center with 2 new multi use buildings hopefully bustling with new and downsized neighbors, shops flourishing and great improvements to our streets and sidewalks. And maybe a couple of restaurants with outdoor seating. Ok, maybe a little too Pollyanna-ish.
It would at least be nice to not read about the “devil strip mall” on the Newtonville bash-fest, um … listserv. But I am not holding my breath.
I was very pleased with the result, but for a project that made so much sense for the community it’s troubling that it came down to the wire. The actual vote was 16 to 7 with 1 absent, the bare minimum needed.
And now we wait. Austin Street was permitted in 2015, and will be thankfully getting off the ground in Spring 2018. So I expect it will be at least 2020 before we see shovels in the ground on this one.
One thing that all of these projects make clear is that support them or not, something has to change. When property sits vacant or underutilized while we go through endless permitting and court battles, that’s not good for anybody. At least with Austin St, we still have use of the parking lot. I have to think Washington Place will remain a wasteland for years, with the gas station already out and many others on the way.
This may be the kiss of death for Amy Sangiolo’s candidacy. Will be an interesting election for sure!
Marti, I’m glad you got the Florida style strip mall you so desired–and that you can finally admit it’s a strip mall. I wouldn’t want it in my Village but to each their own.
I was pleased with the results last night but especially with the respectful tenor of the comments directed at both supporters and opponents.
It was also gratifying to hear that so many of our councilors view this project as a way to begin to address our housing crisis and its economic development benefits. As Councilor Albright articulated, we cannot grow our commercial tax base without addressing Newton’s housing and transportation needs at the same time.
Finally, I was especially gratified to hear councilors on both sides of the vote (most notably Councilor Gentile) clearly articulate that the fear of adding more children to our school system should not be part of a land use deliberation.
This is a terrific project and will greatly enhance Newtonville and Newton.
P.S. David M: You clearly have not looked at this project. Reasonable people can disagree with the design and/or merits. But no reasonable person would describe this as looking like a strip mall.
oh Greg, how can you applaud the “respectful tenor” then call me an unreasonable person because my opinion is different than yours? too funny.
if you read any of my previous posts you’d know I have been following the plans closely. like past proposed developments the renderings are completely misleading. the front of most stores are actually facing the parking lot and not Washington St. When you look at it from the parking lot side, the true front (no rendering provided by the developer btw, hmm wonder why?), it’s a strip mall with luxury apartment on the upper floors.
the same trick was used for Chestnut Hill Square complex, and I posted the renderings versus actual, see http://imgur.com/a/DpB58
so I hate to say it, but what faces Washington St is really just the backside of a strip mall.
Oh David. Because, for starters, by definition a strip mall is:
and that’s not what Washington Place is.
David M,
I think everyone would agree with you that a ‘quaint’ row of independent stores is the most ‘ideal’. However, times have changed. This model simply will not survive today compared to 30 years ago.
With online shopping, uber, big box retail available 10-15 mins drive.. this ‘quaint’ is no longer viable. It’s simply reality.
The only way for commercial to survive is the model of high density housing above the stores. When i think of strip mall, i think of a place where you drive to, go in and get out. WP will mostly served by several hundred people who live 5-10 minutes walk and can mingle in the community space also
I’m hoping bitter residents do not try to tie this thing in court for several years.. its time to move forward
Strip mall:
a retail complex consisting of stores or restaurants in adjacent spaces – yes
one long building – yes
typically having a narrow parking area directly in front of the stores – yes
from the plans: http://i.imgur.com/CEzQENw.jpg
again, if you’re happy with it then it’s fine with me! I don’t live in Newtonville.
David M,
You were quite vocal against Washington Place, and it turns out you don’t even live in Newtonville? Just curious how WP would negatively impact you? unless you have to visit the area quite frequently?
The TAB’s story is here.
By that logic, Coolidge Corner is a strip mall!
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3425584,-71.1231319,165m/data=!3m1!1e3
@ Charlie, Coolidge Corner is different because there the stores are not all connected and the entrances face Beacon and Harvard St. Newtonville’s Washing Place Strip Mall will have the entrances facing the parking lot, not Washington and Walnut, like the shops there now.
By that definition, what is there now is a strip mall.
It really doesn’t matter what you choose to call the back of it, it’s been passed and Mr Korf is continuing to negotiate with the abutters. What more is needed to say.
no Marti, try reading the definition again. nice try though.
why would Korf & Co. negotiate after he has City approval? you can’t be serious.
@David. Marti is both serious and knows what she’s taking about, two attributes you frankly seem to be lacking in this thread.
Korf has publicly talked about his willingness to negotiate with his abutters to avoid a protracted legal battle.
This is why eliminating Ward Alderman is a BAAD idea….
From facebook post re: Washington Place vote:
N’ville resident: You knew very well where the neighbors stood Jake and you didn’t care.
Jake Auchincloss neighbors don’t equal Newtonville. I’m responsible to the whole city. Many liked this project. Many didn’t.
vote NO on proposed charter.
David:
I think you are a bit confused about standard commercial buildings and foot traffic. The idea that the developer would have the commercial units turn their back on Washington Street makes absolutely no sense. I realize you are annoyed at the vote and are lashing out a bit, but the Wegmann’s plaza project is very different. Route 9 has very little foot traffic, the parking lot is much bigger, and that development is circular, with the parking lot in the center. It makes sense in that type of development to have the main entrance face the foot traffic, which comes not just from parking, but also from the circle of stores surrounding the parking. Now, I’m not saying that the stores that face route 9 are not a disappointment (they are, they are ugly) but to decide that this project will share that characteristic is unlikely. Instead, the prime example would be the CVS in West Newton. Entrances on both sides. Or, if you want a Newton example, the landrymat near Rox Diner has the same dual entrance.
Neal P.: Well, wouldn’t that example only work about 50% of the time? For instance, Emily Norton is the ward councilor, and I certainly didn’t agree with her on Austin Street, Cabot School, etc, etc. Can I now say “This is why keeping Ward Councilors are a BAAAD idea?” Nope. And if this project is anything like Austin Street, I believe Newtonville split about 50/50. I’d like a Ward Councilor that agrees with me the majority of time too. But that isn’t a reason to keep or eliminate Ward Councilor. Jake’s responsibility isn’t the neighbors alone, but the ward and the city too. That sometimes can be tough, and I don’t always agree with his decisions, but that is what the voting booth is for. The voting booth will be there, even if we eliminate ward Councilors.
David M,
I really don’t care what you call WP. You can choose to degrade a part of Newtonville center if that’s what makes you happy. I’ll call it a mixed-use development.
“Why would Korf and Co negotiate, after they have the city’s approval?” Think about that question a minute.
If you would like to continue this discussion, I suggest you spend some time reading the Board Order instead of looking up snide definitions to denigrate WP.
Greg, your problem is you believe everything the developer tells you. Mark Development will crush the neighbors with their legal team the second they try to delay the project.
Once this gets built take a group picture and post it–can’t wait to see you all sipping coffee outside Partners Healthcare, CVS or maybe Dunkin Donuts will move in. Nothing like hanging out at the florida style strip mall in our very own city! plenty of parking too so be sure to drive over in separate cars.
until then you can get your fix sitting outside the Partners on Needham St.,
http://imgur.com/s4tavkK
Neil P,
I too am a “neighbor.” I live in Newtonville not far from the Village Center – as does Bryan who lives on Lowell and many others – and appreciate both Jake and Susan’s vote to approve WP.
So when circulating posts that say, Jake knew what the neighbors wanted and didn’t vote that way, it would be more welcome within your echo chamber. I would really like it if those who refer to themselves as “neighbors” would stop acting as if the rest of us do not exist. That’s rather elitist.
David M,
Read the Board Order! Two developments were approved – the 1 for 160 units and another for 140 units with other changes. He IS negotiating with abutters. It’s in the Board Order. It’s not gossip or a rumor like the ones you prefer to deal in. It’s a fact.
We will all have to wait to see what moves in there. Your predictions are just that. Some of us are hoping for certain things but you are making “scary” pronouncements as if they are threats. I prefer to keep my fantasies positive.
David M. does have a point regarding CVS, Partners, and Dunkin. I’m not expecting small retail at that site. But I certainly would welcome a 24 hour CVS. Really. That’s probably just me.
Look, I’m not a fan of the new German kitchen store in Newtonville either (really, its called Your German Kitchen) or the banks or the nail salons. But someone is, that is how they stay in business. With additional retail at Austin Street and WP, I’m hoping that commercial rent will drop a bit in the older retail spots, allowing some new mom and pop stores to open up. We’ll see.
But let’s not look at things in a vacuum. A healthy village retail environment has a mix of different items. Duplication isn’t the best, but it tends not to last (a lot of nail places have gone out of business in Newtonville).
I’m on record as saying that I preferred the current situation to the new WP. I liked the ballet school, the restaurant, the gas station, and the barbor shop. With the exception of the ballet school, I was a customer of all. But those are gone. The barber shop is opening nearby. Some of them will reopen elsewhere, or have reopened elsewhere. But the die was cast when the property was sold. And additional new retail will be a net boon for the village. It might take a while for the market to adjust, but I do think it will work out.
Lots of interesting changes coming to Newtonville. All in all, postive ones in my view. Hopefully the Walnut Street redo is done correctly. That is key. They are all tied together in my mind. I bet you in 10 years we are talking about a project at the Star Market site too.
Marti, I have read the order already. Is there something specific you are trying to convey? hard to understand your point–is there some wording or clause you think requires the neighbor’s approval for the project to proceed? please cite.
Also, Greg had posted the definition of strip mall, not I. Greg was also calling for “respectful tenor”, which you calling me arrogant and assuming I’m illiterate isn’t quite putting you in that bin. I won’t hold my breath for an apology.
David, I don’t think that is what Marti is saying. I can’t tell if you are trying to make a point or just trying to stir the pot. And in a discussion of tenor and tone, I humbly suggest that you haven’t been free on blame on that front on this particular thread either.
Let’s take a step back. I think the neighbors have more power than you give them credit for. Austin Street was delayed for years due to the two court cases. The neighbors are likely to lose in my opinion just like Austin Street, although I think they have a stronger case actually than the nuisance suits filed in Austin Street. But the goal is delay. Every month delayed is additional construction costs and interest rate risk. That is tremendously powerful on a large project.
So I think it is logical to assume the developer is trying to avoid this. But let’s not underestimate the leverage.
One person’s mixed use development is another’s strip mall. I’m not opposed to pointless debates (and have engaged in more than a few). Who cares how you categorize Washington Place? Really.
As one who attended the Wednesday city council meeting until 11:45 pm: the Washington Place discussion went on way too long with few new insights. Jay Harney was the exception. In a nutshell, he said we’re a community with different perspectives, all wanting the best for Newton. He voted against a project I strongly support, but he expressed a sentiment often forgotten in Newton and the country these days.
This is just a personal beef: if at some point the city council votes “no” to Lenny Gentile’s request for extra time to speak – after using up way more than his fair share of allotted time – I’ll give the council a standing ovation.
@fig – That is exactly the point.
Both Emily or Jake can get the Ward 2 sentiment incorrect or chose to not listen to them. It would take only 50.1% of Ward 2 voters to correct it and make their voice heard, by voting out Emily i.e. their Ward Councillor.
Good luck trying to vote Jake. Net result – Emily does not have the luxury to ignore her constituents, while Jake does not have to represent his (as he correctly stated on f/b)
Neil P,
Jake certainly doesn’t need any help from me but it boils my blood when someone’s words are changed and their meaning misrepresented. If you point is a good one, it will stand on its own.
You used the word “constituents” while Jake used “neighbors.” First Jake said he didn’t poll the neighbors in an answer to a question meaning he did not conduct a poll and then he said some supported WP and some did not – the truest statement he could use. Neighbors was used in the context in which the question was asked – as in neighbors being used to mean all of Newtonville when there are other neighbors with different opinions – not his constituency because many of us in Ward 2 support the project.
For Emily to be voted out, someone would need to have the courage to run against her and her name calling, word changing constituents – but I wish someone would. Susan and Jake represent mine and plenty of other Ward 2 residents’ wishes.
The reason it’s a strip mall at heart is that the stores will face their backs towards the street, not their entrances, and the entrances will face the parking lot, away from the street. This makes sense in a place like Rt. 9, out near 495, where there is no village street life. But Korff also got a waiver on parking, so there won’t be enough spaces, and shoppers will crowd the already-crowded village spaces. Of which there will be many fewer, due to the Austin St. project. And the mayor’s plan is to further reduce parking and narrow streets, because his transportation planner is a competitive cyclist who wants Newton shoppers and commuters to switch to bikes! WP will have a 160-unit bicycle parking area, after all. Residents won’t get car parking, though.
As a (now-former) long time tenant of the site, I know it was under-utilized and needed updating. But it could and should have been fit in to the existing zoning and village circulation patterns. Instead it’s just a generic building, with no real sense of place, plunked down on a big lot that will be nuked. And the apartments will have a lovely view of I-90. Plus we’ll have “national brand” stores that pay minimum wage, rather than locally-owned businesses. It’s more of the third world bimodal society, either you’re a servant or own them, that America is becoming.