I generally try to steer clear of information that comes to me through too many people to avoid the “telephone game syndrome” where the information gets more garbled at each stop.
Tonight I’ll waive my usual prudence since this could be such a big deal. So here’s my telephone game map.
- I just talked to my wife who is away.
- She just got an email from a neighbor
- The neighbor ran into her dentist in the park
- The dentist has an office in the AAA building of the Marshalls Plaza on Needham St
- He say’s he’s moving his office because the Marshall plaza will be leveled next year.
According to the city’s GIS maps the Marshall’s plaza is owned by Needham St Associates. Next door is the huge Clarks building complex owned by Northland Development. Both Needham St Assoicates and Northland share a mailing address so it appears that both parcels are in effect owned by Northland.
There have been lots of hints over the last year that something big is afoot. Clarks announced quite a while ago that they are moving to Waltham. Northland got a demolition permit about a year ago to knock down three buildings on the property for “increasing the parking”. Last winter, the big vacant white building (middle of the photo) collapsed during the big snowstorms and has since been torn down.
These two properties together are one of the biggest parcels in all of Newton so whatever happens next, it will be BIG.
Hey Greg Reibman, don’t you work in that same AAA building? Whadayaknow?
@Jerry: It’s true that Northland, which owns a lot of property on both sides of Needham Street, is believed to be preparing a plan for the area.
And yes it’s true that the Chamber’s office is located in the same building as the dentist, who just moved from the building.
But the rest isn’t necessarily true. Northland just renewed the Chamber’s lease for another year. Another tenant in the building just renewed hers and has talked to Northland about possibly leasing the space formerly occupied by the dentist. Yet a third tenant in the same building told me basically the same thing.
But here’s where the dentist’s story really makes no sense. We all know that it takes a long time to get anything approved in Newton. The idea that this building could be “leveled” any time soon, defies historical trends.
All that said, I’m looking forward to hearing what Northland has in mind for this area. We need workforce housing, we need space for the small and mid-size innovation economy businesses that have shown interest in the area. I’d love to see some co-working space as part of the project. It’s an exciting opportunity for our city.
And this isn’t just in my backyard. It’s my yard. And I’m saying “Yes in my yard!”
@Greg: Did any of those buildings go before the Historical Commission?
@Councilor Sangiolo: I have no idea about the status of the three vacant old mill buildings Jerry mentioned, not me.
And I have no idea how old the AAA building is but I’m pretty sure the only thing historic there would be me.
Amy – Which buildings would go before the HH?
Any building that is over 50 years old seeking demolition permission unless it was administratively approved.
@amysangiolo – If I remember correctly (not something you should always put large bets on) they went before the historic commission about a year ago and got demolition permission for three somewhat derelict buildings on the property (the Clarks plot). One of those buildings subsequently caved in before they got a chance to knock it down.
@Greg – that’s why “telephone” is such a fun game
Oh and to be clear, the beautiful old Clarks mill building is not one of the buildings that they were seeking permission from the Historic Commission to knock down.
I believe all three of the buildings have already been torn down and nobody would miss them.
So Marshall’s Plaza has not gone before the Historic Commission, right?
No, not Marshalls Plaza. Three long-empty, derelict buildings on the adjacent Northland Development parcel (aka the Clarks parcel)
This was all the hot property talk over ten years ago, and I hope there are many many public forums if there is even the slightest sliver of truth in this.
The developer, Northland, proposed a big project on 25 acres, including the entire set of stores from Marshalls to Fresh City, including the parking area, and IVEX. The problem with their plans were: 1. The commercial real estate market at the time changed dramatically, so Northland decided to hold the properties instead of tearing down and building new. 2. The Upper Falls village along with Brian Yates, and architect Mark Sangiolo, got the design plans, and guess what? All the beauty of the new property would be on Needham St and Oak St. What would be the view onto Chestnut St where now the greenway is located? Truck entrances and exits, pollution, employee parking, and dumpsters for garbage! Upper Falls will enjoy a new project, but not if you put the truck access and garbage and employee parking facing the residents. The design, if brought back to life, must consider the area of Tower Road, behind Baza and Petsmart and Bigelow Oil to integrate deliveries and trash pickups.
Northland also owns two other contiguous properties directly across Needham Street and on Charlmont Street.
The bigger question that NO one seems to want to answer is – they can Build – but will it get filled?
WHY is the property on Elm Street still Vacant? Why are the developments on Pleasant Street in Watertown and River Street in Waltham still Vacant?
Do you really think if you build on Austin Street and Washington Street it will get filled?
And if it doesn’t how is the city going to deal with a developer that cannot pay the taxes since they cannot rent out the building?
Joanne – Like with any business decision, time will tell.
Amy – I understand the rules and regs of the HH, but calling Marshalls Plaza historic is a stretch. Why not work with the developer to get a better project for Upper Falls?
We actually have an opportunity here to create a more welcoming, walkable, mixed-use development that can attract the a mix of businesses. In other words, we can create an ecosystem to build economic vitality rather than a cistern to hold offices.
Granted, it’s really up to Northland, but the opportunity here is huge, especially given the proximity to 128, the Greenway and, if we do it right, other transportation options (including bikes). The other day I biked from the Chamber offices to Central Square, Cambridge and it took about 45 minutes in the middle of the day. Given the traffic, that’s about what it takes driving as well.
We can think differently about our city. This is an opportunity to do so.
Greg, maybe you should put in a plug for the June 29 N-Squared Innovation Corridor project presentation from 8-10 am at Mt Ida College, 777 Dedham Street, Newton, MA.
@ Jerry – The Point I am making is – if we cannot fill the NEW development we have built then why are we allowing more to be built ie Austin Street and the Orr Building? So we can have vacant apartments and retail spaces all over town?
If it is So great – then why is it not already filled? Could it be that Parking is limited and a business is not going to spend money to put a business in when customers cannot easily go to there business? Is the rent that they want to rent the Apartments at too high for those apartment??
@Joanne – Yes, I get that’s the point you’re making. I guess the point I’m making is that this is a commercial piece of private property. It’s the owners decision of what they believe is commercially viable. If they’re good at what they do the buildings will be full and they’ll make money. If they misjudge the market they won’t.
I think the last thing we would want is for the city to be attempting to make the business decisions for private property owners. The city’s job is permitting and enforcing the laws.
Except when the building is vacant and they cannot pay their taxes – it then becomes the City’s Problem.
The land on Austin Street – was City Property wasn’t it?
And if Elm street, Pleasant Street and River Street are examples – what do you think is going to happen to Austin Street?
@Joanne: I can speak to the Pleasant St apartments, having lived in one for a year. It’s pretty simple. They’re way overpriced. They’re charging the kind of prices that people in Boston/Brookline/Camberville can afford only because they’re splitting rent several ways and don’t have car payments.
Yuppie – how big was the apartment and what was the rent?
1 bed, once you added all the nickel and dime maintenance, parking and pet fees I believe we were in the 2400-2500 range. Utilities not included.
Cambridge prices without the cambridge lifestyle or transit convenience.
Prices and floorplans are readily available for those apartments:
Charlesbank, 120 Pleasant St.
http://www.charlesbankapts.com/apartments/search.do?lid=en_US&pid=3025&mdate=09/01/2016&beds=2
Riverbend, 270 Pleasant
http://www.berkshirecommunities.com/apartments/ma/watertown/riverbend-on-the-charles/floor-plans#/bedrooms/2/floorplans
Current on the Charles, 36 River St.
http://www.currentswaltham.com/floor-plans/?wpv_paged_preload_reach=2&wpv_view_count=2753-40cd750bba9870f18aada2478b24840ac74d97b01eae257e44aa9d5bade97bafd41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427ed41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e&wpv_post_id=16&unitrent_min%5B%5D=&unitrent_max%5B%5D=&wpv-post_tag%5B%5D=studio&wpv-post_tag%5B%5D=one&wpv-post_tag%5B%5D=den&wpv-post_tag%5B%5D=two&wpv-post_tag%5B%5D=three&date-available-raw%5B%5D=&floornumber_min%5B%5D=&floornumber_max%5B%5D=&wpv_filter_submit=search
Based on their listed availability, the buildings are far from vacant.
I was actually referring to the ones at 431 River Street Waltham . And on Pleasant Street – you will see one development on hold and the other 2 on Pleasant between Bacon and Howard Streets in Mid Construction that has not progressed for Months.
@Jane: Sorry I missed your post. I’m not calling the Marshall’s Plaza historic. But if the building(s) are over 50 years old – they must go through the process and that is some sort of Historic Review – either through the Commission or administratively.