Newton North parent and Village14 regular Chuck Tanowitz wrote an article that WGBH published on their web site on the taunting culture and respect at school events. Worth a read.
WGBH.org: Newton Parent Weighs in on Culture of Taunting
by Doug Haslam | Mar 17, 2016 | Newton | 24 comments
I didn’t want to color the main post with my opinion, so:
I agree with the idea of and need for a culture of respect among students- and for more positive cheering- but I think their are some false equivalencies and apples and oranges comparisons being made and implied.
Most of all is the implication that the more raucous chanting at basketball games implies an underlying lack of respect, for the other team and their classmates: we saw that come true last Friday, but I don’t agree that’s the main driver.
I didn’t want to color the main post with my opinion, so:
I agree with the idea of and need for a culture of respect among students- and for more positive cheering- but I think their are some false equivalencies and apples and oranges comparisons being made and implied.
Most of all is the implication that the more raucous chanting at basketball games implies an underlying lack of respect, for the other team and their classmates: we saw that come true last Friday, but I don’t agree that’s the main driver.
Great article Chuck.
I think ignorant taunting has been a big and regrettable part of sports culture for a long time, starting at the top in pro sports and percolating all the way down to high school. When did the first fan at Fenway yell “Yankees suck”? When did the first pro-athlete trash talk their opponent in a press conference?
Thanks for pushing back in the opposite direction.
Great article Chuck.
I think ignorant taunting has been a big and regrettable part of sports culture for a long time, starting at the top in pro sports and percolating all the way down to high school. When did the first fan at Fenway yell “Yankees suck”? When did the first pro-athlete trash talk their opponent in a press conference?
Thanks for pushing back in the opposite direction.
A very thoughtful and well-written piece. Bringing civility back to sports and public discourse is absolutely vital, but I’m still troubled by the implication that taunting, by greater degree, leads to hate speech. The suggestion is that bad behavior is somehow responsible for bringing out bigotry. Sure, if people harbor these feelings (or even hold on to the words from previous generations) making them upset will bring them out, but this doesn’t mean that everyone being civil would make the bigotry go away.
A very thoughtful and well-written piece. Bringing civility back to sports and public discourse is absolutely vital, but I’m still troubled by the implication that taunting, by greater degree, leads to hate speech. The suggestion is that bad behavior is somehow responsible for bringing out bigotry. Sure, if people harbor these feelings (or even hold on to the words from previous generations) making them upset will bring them out, but this doesn’t mean that everyone being civil would make the bigotry go away.
I think it’s important to point out, especially in the light of Chuck’s well meaning article, that the basketball teams exhibited good sportsmanship. Did they not? In this case wasn’t the problem the insensitivity of teenage crowds in heat? I’ve heard nothing of the lack of sportsmanship among participants.
I think it’s important to point out, especially in the light of Chuck’s well meaning article, that the basketball teams exhibited good sportsmanship. Did they not? In this case wasn’t the problem the insensitivity of teenage crowds in heat? I’ve heard nothing of the lack of sportsmanship among participants.
None of this had anything to do with the players themselves, correct. The respect that I know exists under the crowds’ taunting rhetoric is always openly on display with the players.
None of this had anything to do with the players themselves, correct. The respect that I know exists under the crowds’ taunting rhetoric is always openly on display with the players.
All those are fair points, but take a look again at the anecdote that start the piece. The girl felt that it was simply wrong to recognize, openly, a good move by an opposing player. A friend of mine described that as a “tribal” action.
The impact of taunting by the fans runs far beyond this. I know that as a teen, I never wanted to push myself to be on a team spectator sport because of my own fear that I’d be somehow insulted. It hurts, why would I do that to myself? I can see that in my children. If they go to a game and people are shouting “air ball” when a student misses, what happens when they miss? Why open themselves up to that?
I believe that the taunting itself is a lack of respect. You can encourage your own team without feeling the need to tease, taunt or otherwise “shake up” the opponent.
And clearly this is a bigger problem, as pointed out in this Globe story: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/03/15/taunting-constant-high-school-games-requiring-vigilance/A47vTbdVlsyTCU7keLBqeK/story.html
All those are fair points, but take a look again at the anecdote that start the piece. The girl felt that it was simply wrong to recognize, openly, a good move by an opposing player. A friend of mine described that as a “tribal” action.
The impact of taunting by the fans runs far beyond this. I know that as a teen, I never wanted to push myself to be on a team spectator sport because of my own fear that I’d be somehow insulted. It hurts, why would I do that to myself? I can see that in my children. If they go to a game and people are shouting “air ball” when a student misses, what happens when they miss? Why open themselves up to that?
I believe that the taunting itself is a lack of respect. You can encourage your own team without feeling the need to tease, taunt or otherwise “shake up” the opponent.
And clearly this is a bigger problem, as pointed out in this Globe story: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/03/15/taunting-constant-high-school-games-requiring-vigilance/A47vTbdVlsyTCU7keLBqeK/story.html
Here’s a nice story, from Yvonne Abraham of the Globe, of how cheering from the stands doesn’t have to be hateful.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/03/16/game-where-fans-were-winners/sQ4ppbHEXlzB16SAF9wO1M/story.html
Here’s a nice story, from Yvonne Abraham of the Globe, of how cheering from the stands doesn’t have to be hateful.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/03/16/game-where-fans-were-winners/sQ4ppbHEXlzB16SAF9wO1M/story.html
Great article Chuck; I totally agree.
It’s a shame that the comments under the the Globe article linked by mgwa are mostly negative. Adult’s approval of fans chanting hateful taunts is indicative of the tough course ahead for educators, administrators and parents who are trying to change both kid’s inappropriate behaviors and the thinking that promotes them.
Great article Chuck; I totally agree.
It’s a shame that the comments under the the Globe article linked by mgwa are mostly negative. Adult’s approval of fans chanting hateful taunts is indicative of the tough course ahead for educators, administrators and parents who are trying to change both kid’s inappropriate behaviors and the thinking that promotes them.
I saw Yvonne’s column yesterday. I found it hard to believe. I don’t think she’s making it up but I wonder how much fact-checking she did. Chants of “you guys are chill” and “we respect you”? Maybe I’m sliding away from being a realist to becoming a pessimist! But seems a bit too perfect of an anecdote to balance the NN/CM game.
I like that Chuck’s letter questions the whole taunting mentality or atmosphere. Generally, it’s taken for granted that it’s going to be there at a sporting event. But “because that’s just how it is” is a pretty bad reason why not to change something.
I saw Yvonne’s column yesterday. I found it hard to believe. I don’t think she’s making it up but I wonder how much fact-checking she did. Chants of “you guys are chill” and “we respect you”? Maybe I’m sliding away from being a realist to becoming a pessimist! But seems a bit too perfect of an anecdote to balance the NN/CM game.
I like that Chuck’s letter questions the whole taunting mentality or atmosphere. Generally, it’s taken for granted that it’s going to be there at a sporting event. But “because that’s just how it is” is a pretty bad reason why not to change something.
Former Newton South English Teacher also makes some really good points in this article here. There is definitely a fine line between taunting and “engaging in competition” … that a fine line between “We are number one!!” and “you suck!”
I believe in competition. I was never for those “every game ends in a tie” policies or the “don’t celebrate too hard, you’ll hurt the other team’s feelings” … but, on the flip side insults and taunting is unnecessary and really does NOT add to the game.
While the players on the team did not participate in the taunting or in any direct unsportsman like behavior, neither did they (or the organizers) object to it. In tennis, booing players is not allowed and when the audience erupts in such behavior … play stops and waits for the audience to cooperate. That is the way the sport enforces civility on the courts. In bullying, when you don’t speak up when you see someone being victimized, it is considered condoning and supporting the act. Having the teams and the organizers actually stop the game when the fans get out of hand is the only way to change this culture.
Former Newton South English Teacher also makes some really good points in this article here. There is definitely a fine line between taunting and “engaging in competition” … that a fine line between “We are number one!!” and “you suck!”
I believe in competition. I was never for those “every game ends in a tie” policies or the “don’t celebrate too hard, you’ll hurt the other team’s feelings” … but, on the flip side insults and taunting is unnecessary and really does NOT add to the game.
While the players on the team did not participate in the taunting or in any direct unsportsman like behavior, neither did they (or the organizers) object to it. In tennis, booing players is not allowed and when the audience erupts in such behavior … play stops and waits for the audience to cooperate. That is the way the sport enforces civility on the courts. In bullying, when you don’t speak up when you see someone being victimized, it is considered condoning and supporting the act. Having the teams and the organizers actually stop the game when the fans get out of hand is the only way to change this culture.
Greer makes a great point on stopping the game immediately and restoring order. Given the age and the enthusiasm of students this is most likely the best way to control the crowd. As an extreme, throwing the fans out (even if its all of them) would certainly quiet the place down.
Disclaimer: Caution on throwing kids loaded with adrenaline out in the street without police presence and approval.
Lets not overthink discipline.
Greer makes a great point on stopping the game immediately and restoring order. Given the age and the enthusiasm of students this is most likely the best way to control the crowd. As an extreme, throwing the fans out (even if its all of them) would certainly quiet the place down.
Disclaimer: Caution on throwing kids loaded with adrenaline out in the street without police presence and approval.
Lets not overthink discipline.
In this case, the game was not in progress during the chants in question- but if they had, sure.
As for throwing kids out, that has been done (not en masse that I have seen, but individual bad actors) – that’s one of the jobs of the school officials on scene if individuals get out of hand- can’t agree it was called for in that situation, as I thought how it was handled was straightforward and well done.
And that is one thing I would caution about- changing something that most all participants agree goes on without incident most all of the time, because a bunch of knuckleheads went over the line once. The culture that exists brings with it boundaries- there were repercussions when they were crossed which do not mean relegating every game to an unenforceable rendition of Yvonne Abraham’s utopian ideal.
As James Cote says, let’s not overthink discipline – and let’s not overthink what the actual problem was either.
ETA: Yes, I know there are more instances throughout the entirety of HS sports than just the “once,” but I hope you get my point
In this case, the game was not in progress during the chants in question- but if they had, sure.
As for throwing kids out, that has been done (not en masse that I have seen, but individual bad actors) – that’s one of the jobs of the school officials on scene if individuals get out of hand- can’t agree it was called for in that situation, as I thought how it was handled was straightforward and well done.
And that is one thing I would caution about- changing something that most all participants agree goes on without incident most all of the time, because a bunch of knuckleheads went over the line once. The culture that exists brings with it boundaries- there were repercussions when they were crossed which do not mean relegating every game to an unenforceable rendition of Yvonne Abraham’s utopian ideal.
As James Cote says, let’s not overthink discipline – and let’s not overthink what the actual problem was either.
ETA: Yes, I know there are more instances throughout the entirety of HS sports than just the “once,” but I hope you get my point