Mark Aronson spoke to the students today, and now has sent this email to the community, quoted in full for those who haven’t seen it:
Dear North Community,
Today I spoke with our students about the fan behavior at Friday’s basketball game. Chants from both schools were unacceptable, hurtful, and have no place at a high school athletic event or anywhere else. Catholic Memorial has apologized, taken responsibility for its actions, and will use this incident as a learning opportunity.
We at Newton North must, and are currently working to, do the same. Regardless of intent, the impact of chants from our fans was hurtful. On behalf of our community, I have apologized to Catholic Memorial administrators for our fan behavior. We are taking this event as an opportunity to reflect and learn. We strive to be a community that is supportive and inclusive. In all situations, our students must remember our values and show our “Tiger Pride” in a positive way.
As principal, I have high expectations for how our students treat each other. I expect you do too. Using this event, as well as incidents of anti-Semitic graffiti and racist comments submitted via an online survey, we will learn more about ourselves and how we can do better as a community. I have no doubt that, together, we will use these unfortunate events to help students gain a greater understanding of the power of their words and increase their cultural competence.
Sincerely,
Mark Aronson
As for my opinion about North’s chants – I still don’t think they were meant as homophobic, but proactively taking responsibility for the school and calling them inappropriate is a god move in my eyes.
As for my opinion about North’s chants – I still don’t think they were meant as homophobic, but proactively taking responsibility for the school and calling them inappropriate is a god move in my eyes.
Yes, both a god move and a good move 🙂
Yes, both a god move and a good move 🙂
An excellent message from Principal Aronson. As he said hopefully the students, fans and parents will all learn something. I’m glad he sees that impact is more important than intent and we can all benefit from knowing that.
An excellent message from Principal Aronson. As he said hopefully the students, fans and parents will all learn something. I’m glad he sees that impact is more important than intent and we can all benefit from knowing that.
Over the years I’ve tried to teach my students that the impact of one’s comment is what really matters. Often students say hurtful things without understanding the impact on the receiver of the comment. The edulingo is that it’s the “teachable moment”, but there’s something to be said for it.
Doug – the best thing to do as a community is to acknowledge that, in addition to receiving deeply hurtful hate language, our students chanted hurtful language. Please stop making excuses for, or diminishing, poor behavior. It doesn’t help us at the school level. We need parent support so that we can educate kids about complex issues that adults haven’t figured out. I spent the day trying to educate kids about respecting every identity, then I come to this blog and find that some people still think this is some kind of competition about which school behaved worse.
Help us out here, guys. We’re working hard at this.
Over the years I’ve tried to teach my students that the impact of one’s comment is what really matters. Often students say hurtful things without understanding the impact on the receiver of the comment. The edulingo is that it’s the “teachable moment”, but there’s something to be said for it.
Doug – the best thing to do as a community is to acknowledge that, in addition to receiving deeply hurtful hate language, our students chanted hurtful language. Please stop making excuses for, or diminishing, poor behavior. It doesn’t help us at the school level. We need parent support so that we can educate kids about complex issues that adults haven’t figured out. I spent the day trying to educate kids about respecting every identity, then I come to this blog and find that some people still think this is some kind of competition about which school behaved worse.
Help us out here, guys. We’re working hard at this.
As much as I commend the overall message and the introspection, I worry about conflating taunting with hate speech. It’s not just a question of degree (hurtful vs. deeply hurtful) That really misses the point. If this is a teaching moment, we must do better.
As much as I commend the overall message and the introspection, I worry about conflating taunting with hate speech. It’s not just a question of degree (hurtful vs. deeply hurtful) That really misses the point. If this is a teaching moment, we must do better.
@Adam – I bet most of those kids didn’t even realize that what they chanted was associated with pogroms and killing. I’m sure that they are learning it now. That doesn’t make what they said less bad, but I wouldn’t assume they thought of it as hate speech.
I remember a high school classmate writing something in my year book that shocked me (no, it wasn’t this bad), then coming to me embarrassed the next day to ask if she could cross it out and write something else. She’d had no idea that what she wrote was offensive until she told her mother, who explained what was wrong with it.
@Adam – I bet most of those kids didn’t even realize that what they chanted was associated with pogroms and killing. I’m sure that they are learning it now. That doesn’t make what they said less bad, but I wouldn’t assume they thought of it as hate speech.
I remember a high school classmate writing something in my year book that shocked me (no, it wasn’t this bad), then coming to me embarrassed the next day to ask if she could cross it out and write something else. She’d had no idea that what she wrote was offensive until she told her mother, who explained what was wrong with it.
And admitting that the NNHS kids did something wrong isn’t the same as conflating the two chants. But just because our chant wasn’t as bad as their chant doesn’t mean it was good or right, and doesn’t mean they don’t have to learn not to do that.
And admitting that the NNHS kids did something wrong isn’t the same as conflating the two chants. But just because our chant wasn’t as bad as their chant doesn’t mean it was good or right, and doesn’t mean they don’t have to learn not to do that.
I grew up catholic and had to this listen to this garbage growing up – this anti-Semitic rant comes straight from the parents to the kids – don’t believe otherwise. Taunting an all-boys school for being – all boys – is nowhere in the same league as the HATE they threw back. I think taking the high road is commendable to a degree, but there’s a danger in equating the two. It diminishes the hatred the underlies the chant and as the father of 3 Jewish kids, i can’t accept that.
I grew up catholic and had to this listen to this garbage growing up – this anti-Semitic rant comes straight from the parents to the kids – don’t believe otherwise. Taunting an all-boys school for being – all boys – is nowhere in the same league as the HATE they threw back. I think taking the high road is commendable to a degree, but there’s a danger in equating the two. It diminishes the hatred the underlies the chant and as the father of 3 Jewish kids, i can’t accept that.
It has nothing to do with equating – I wish people on both sides would stop looking this solely through the lens of what the other side said. Try attending a h.s. or college basketball or hockey game with a little kid and sit near the student section – suddenly all that off-color taunting is pretty hard to ignore. An atmosphere is created where this kind of stuff can happen more easily. This is a long-standing issue – it didn’t start at that game – and unless ALL schools/familes examine this behavior, it won’t stop with that game.
It has nothing to do with equating – I wish people on both sides would stop looking this solely through the lens of what the other side said. Try attending a h.s. or college basketball or hockey game with a little kid and sit near the student section – suddenly all that off-color taunting is pretty hard to ignore. An atmosphere is created where this kind of stuff can happen more easily. This is a long-standing issue – it didn’t start at that game – and unless ALL schools/familes examine this behavior, it won’t stop with that game.
Sorry Tricia, but making fun of a all-boys school versus hating someone because you think they killed your divine savior are two very different things. The bigoted Catholics i know who don’t like ‘the jews’ also tend to not be big fans of ‘the gays’ or most other demographics, so when they trot out dismay over the ‘homophobic’ taunts, they are really saying ‘don’t call me gay’ because gay is a bad thing to them. If you really believe there are legitimately two sides here, then i choose inclusion and tolerance over hate – without reservation.
Sorry Tricia, but making fun of a all-boys school versus hating someone because you think they killed your divine savior are two very different things. The bigoted Catholics i know who don’t like ‘the jews’ also tend to not be big fans of ‘the gays’ or most other demographics, so when they trot out dismay over the ‘homophobic’ taunts, they are really saying ‘don’t call me gay’ because gay is a bad thing to them. If you really believe there are legitimately two sides here, then i choose inclusion and tolerance over hate – without reservation.
What mgwa and Tricia said. I did not intend to equate the two chants. But some people here are parsing the words of the Newton students, and in the process may imply to our kids did that what they did was all in good fun. A chant about the genitals of another group of students is unacceptable – not hate language, but unacceptable. The work of educating students about these issues is never done, never will be done, and it’s hard work. We need community support.
What mgwa and Tricia said. I did not intend to equate the two chants. But some people here are parsing the words of the Newton students, and in the process may imply to our kids did that what they did was all in good fun. A chant about the genitals of another group of students is unacceptable – not hate language, but unacceptable. The work of educating students about these issues is never done, never will be done, and it’s hard work. We need community support.
That’s exactly my point. That’s what I mean by conflation. The fact that the anti-semitic, racist, or neo-nazi attitudes exist AT ALL in our community is a very different problem than behaving badly and not respecting feelings of others. Hate speech is not an extreme form of bad behavior, and it would persist with or without the shouting. Different problems with different lessons. Whether or not the kids understood the meaning or consequences of their chants (I agree that they likely did not) the fact that intolerance is being passed down through the generations is the real issue, one that CM and the archdiocese seems to be taking very seriously. If there’s underlying hatred or intolerance in our behavior, we should do the same.
That’s exactly my point. That’s what I mean by conflation. The fact that the anti-semitic, racist, or neo-nazi attitudes exist AT ALL in our community is a very different problem than behaving badly and not respecting feelings of others. Hate speech is not an extreme form of bad behavior, and it would persist with or without the shouting. Different problems with different lessons. Whether or not the kids understood the meaning or consequences of their chants (I agree that they likely did not) the fact that intolerance is being passed down through the generations is the real issue, one that CM and the archdiocese seems to be taking very seriously. If there’s underlying hatred or intolerance in our behavior, we should do the same.
This situation is quite easy to understand if you can get past the us vs them mentality.
“For me to get the point across that the CM fans were chanting truly terrifying, hateful things still being passed down from their parents, I must be adamant that the NNHS fans did nothing but chant harmless things about an all boys schools”
As Jane, Tricia and mgwa said, the two are not mutually exclusive. It is possible to understand the different degrees of severity and treat them differently without diminishing/eliminating the problems with the NNHS chants. The administrators and educators are thankfully aware of this.
At CM they are taking many important steps by keeping the student population from attending the semi final game last night, working with the ADL, altering their curriculum, learning from a Rabi, and having work shops and assemblies to address why it was a dreadful thing to say and exploring its origins.
NNHS is taking steps to help students understand why the impact of saying hurtful things is still there regardless of intention and the background behind why those chants can be hurtful. Hopefully they are also asking what was intented in using sausage fest as a put down to understand where they were coming from.
Surely you can see the difference in the reaction is appropriate. Most can see that CM understands that what their kids said was a hate filled, threatening chant and that NNHS understands that, while certainly not the same thing, what their kids said was hurtful to some.
No one is saying these two chants are the same. Parents and the Newton community need to support the work their educators are doing in order for it to be effective and not undermine them by telling their kids they did nothing wrong.
This situation is quite easy to understand if you can get past the us vs them mentality.
“For me to get the point across that the CM fans were chanting truly terrifying, hateful things still being passed down from their parents, I must be adamant that the NNHS fans did nothing but chant harmless things about an all boys schools”
As Jane, Tricia and mgwa said, the two are not mutually exclusive. It is possible to understand the different degrees of severity and treat them differently without diminishing/eliminating the problems with the NNHS chants. The administrators and educators are thankfully aware of this.
At CM they are taking many important steps by keeping the student population from attending the semi final game last night, working with the ADL, altering their curriculum, learning from a Rabi, and having work shops and assemblies to address why it was a dreadful thing to say and exploring its origins.
NNHS is taking steps to help students understand why the impact of saying hurtful things is still there regardless of intention and the background behind why those chants can be hurtful. Hopefully they are also asking what was intented in using sausage fest as a put down to understand where they were coming from.
Surely you can see the difference in the reaction is appropriate. Most can see that CM understands that what their kids said was a hate filled, threatening chant and that NNHS understands that, while certainly not the same thing, what their kids said was hurtful to some.
No one is saying these two chants are the same. Parents and the Newton community need to support the work their educators are doing in order for it to be effective and not undermine them by telling their kids they did nothing wrong.
Thank you, Marti.
Thank you, Marti.
Who are you quoting, Marti? If you’re paraphrasing me, it’s improper to use quotes, and you’re sadly missing the point. Show me where I said our kids did nothing wrong or suggested anyone shirk responsibility. I’m saying it’s very separate from hate speech, and unless we clearly separate the two, our educators are sending the wrong message. One does not beget the other.
Who are you quoting, Marti? If you’re paraphrasing me, it’s improper to use quotes, and you’re sadly missing the point. Show me where I said our kids did nothing wrong or suggested anyone shirk responsibility. I’m saying it’s very separate from hate speech, and unless we clearly separate the two, our educators are sending the wrong message. One does not beget the other.
Adam – Newton educators know the difference between hate language and what’s crude to the point of unacceptable language. We address both situations at the appropriate level of intervention.
Adam – Newton educators know the difference between hate language and what’s crude to the point of unacceptable language. We address both situations at the appropriate level of intervention.
Denis – you missed my point. I’m not trying to legitimize anything, I’m suggesting we stop thinking about this as binary “right” and “wrong”. It’s just wrong and much, much wronger. And I agree that there is a much heavier onus on CM to figure out where this came from and to work with their entire community to make it clear that there is no place for antisemitism in the Catholic Church. But it doesn’t absolve NNHS from some introspection on how we are doing at being “a community that is supportive and inclusive”.
Denis – you missed my point. I’m not trying to legitimize anything, I’m suggesting we stop thinking about this as binary “right” and “wrong”. It’s just wrong and much, much wronger. And I agree that there is a much heavier onus on CM to figure out where this came from and to work with their entire community to make it clear that there is no place for antisemitism in the Catholic Church. But it doesn’t absolve NNHS from some introspection on how we are doing at being “a community that is supportive and inclusive”.
@Tricia, no argument in general. This is something that really disturbs me and i see it as an apples and oranges comparison.
@Tricia, no argument in general. This is something that really disturbs me and i see it as an apples and oranges comparison.
What Jane, MGWA, Tricia and Marti said.
Adam is also right in that hate is taught from generation to generation and maybe they should be bringing in parents, if they haven’t already.
Both sides don’t help the matter if we all on the sidelines overreact to a competitive situation. Both sides were wrong, both schools and parents of the kids involved hopefully will get involved and straighten out the kids.
What Jane, MGWA, Tricia and Marti said.
Adam is also right in that hate is taught from generation to generation and maybe they should be bringing in parents, if they haven’t already.
Both sides don’t help the matter if we all on the sidelines overreact to a competitive situation. Both sides were wrong, both schools and parents of the kids involved hopefully will get involved and straighten out the kids.
Adam, I was not paraphrasing you but merely putting an emphasis on us vs you, vertical thinking. I didn’t read that into your comment.
I do think it is interesting that you thought I might be.
Adam, I was not paraphrasing you but merely putting an emphasis on us vs you, vertical thinking. I didn’t read that into your comment.
I do think it is interesting that you thought I might be.
Quotation marks and the next sequential message in the thread. Sorry for the misunderstanding. So you were mocking nobody in particular? Also interesting.
Quotation marks and the next sequential message in the thread. Sorry for the misunderstanding. So you were mocking nobody in particular? Also interesting.
Not mocking anyone. Commenting about a common way of thinking about subjects like this and saying that it isn’t conducive to coming up with a beneficial way to solve problems.
I don’t see why you would think that I was paraphrasing you when you had just ended your previous comment with “the fact that intolerance is being passed down through the generations is the real issue, one that CM and the archdiocese seems to be taking very seriously. If there’s underlying hatred or intolerance in our behavior, we should do the same.”
Sounds more like I was agreeing with you to me.
Not mocking anyone. Commenting about a common way of thinking about subjects like this and saying that it isn’t conducive to coming up with a beneficial way to solve problems.
I don’t see why you would think that I was paraphrasing you when you had just ended your previous comment with “the fact that intolerance is being passed down through the generations is the real issue, one that CM and the archdiocese seems to be taking very seriously. If there’s underlying hatred or intolerance in our behavior, we should do the same.”
Sounds more like I was agreeing with you to me.