The awnings are up at Chestnut Hill Square… so are some really cheesy pictures pasted to the panels underneath. I was expecting real glass with some window displays, at least. Bill Cronin of New England Development was quoted as saying the final result would “make everyone proud.” Is this still a work in progress?
The new Chestnut Hill Square façade
And you’re surprised why?
Is there a walking path up behind that fence, or are the window displays supposed to be viewed over/between the shrubs and posts?
I had pretty low expectations coming in, but given that quote, I was expecting a tiny bit more. It’s true that New England Development has a vested interest in making this look like a classy place.
Julia, that walkway is off-limits, behind a locked gate. I’m guessing it’s a fire escape or something. Nobody’s really going to be walking by anyway. It’s not an enticing place to walk. I figure any displays would be for viewing from the street.
This will certainly detract from the otherwise beautiful neighborhood, with its traffic jams stretching from Hammond Street to Langley Rd., its sidewalk-less overpass that bridges the sidewalk-less Hammond Pond Parkway, its 3,000 parking spaces, etc.
That is to say, this area lost any pretense of a human scale about 35 years ago. Now it’s a capitalist wasteland accessible only by automobile. Are we supposed to be honestly concerned about the view from people’s SUVs while they’re stuck in traffic talking on their cell phones, trying to get to the mall across the street?
Does anyone know if it is true that the City of Newton is collecting a $2000 per day fine from the developer of this plaza until they fix the ugly facade? I was also wondering why there is no rear entry to the plaza from Florence Street and why the Newton Fire Dept. has had a fire truck parked at Wegman’s every day since it opened? Who is paying for that expense and why is the fire truck there?
Hi NewtonGal
No Florence St. entrance because neighbors refuse. You used to be enter through the Capitol Grille Florence-entrance which would connect to the main CHS area until Wegmans opened.
Do you remember the horrible fire that happened at that plaza around ten years ago in which five people lost their lives? I wonder how fire trucks can enter the rear of that building now with no rear entrance from Florence Street? Did anyone take this into consideration when they were building this plaza? Five people died there in a fire.
That is the most visually ugly and most congested plaza in the Metrowest area. It is a death trap if there is ever another fire there. The City of Newton should be ashamed of itself for letting this plaza be built. It is pure unadulterated greed on the part of the developer and the city and I feel that public safety has been jeopardized as a result. I hope this plaza fails miserable just like the Atrium Mall did which was built by the same developer as this one. As Gordon Gecko once said in Wallstreet…”Greed is good” Well in this case I have to strongly disagree…greed can be very dangerous.
Woah. You don’t get out much do you Newton Gal?
Oh and the back entrance to Chesnut Hill Square is entirely accessible from Florence Street for emergency vehicles.
@”Newton Gal”– You’re entitled to your opinion that Chestnut Hill Square is ugly, although I disagree. But you’re crossing the line into ignorance when you refer to the plaza as a “death trap.” There were [as I recall] two reasons for the tragic fire at that site years ago. First, it was a mixed-use site that included manufacturing, and that was the area in which the fire started. Second, the building did not have fire suppression sprinklers, because it was built prior to that code requirement.
Mike is correct about the sprinklers, in fact, the fire on that site lead to legislation championed by Rep. Ruth Balser mandating greater use of sprinklers.
How are the fire trucks going to enter the rear of that plaza? Are they going to crash through the metal gates at the back of it or are they going to drive through the concrete garage? That isn’t how I heard that the fire started at 200 Boylston Street. Leslie Gaetas at NECN did a major investigation of that fire if I recall correctly in which 5 people tragically died. I just hope that there isn’t a traffic jam on Rte 9 in the event of an emergency at that plaza as the lanes are impermeable to traffic during much of the day in that area. I challenge Greg Reibman or Mike Striar to name another plaza that is uglier, more foreboding in design, or more un-user friendly than this new plaza in the Metrowest area. It is glaringly obvious that all the designer of this mall cared about was squeezing ever penny of rent out of the square footage. It is an absolute disgrace the way that the facade of that building looks. It will be another Atrium Mall for sure…out of business in 10 years.
Aw shucks @Newton Gal: It must be hell to be smarter than our fire department, police department, code inspectors, insurance underwriters, inflectional services, city leaders and even the merchants and developers who all share an interest in making sure that this property has proper access for emergency vehicles. Because if they were as smart as you, they probably would have designed a back entrance which allows quick and easy access to this property from Florence Street the event of an emergency.
Oh wait, they did! But what they didn’t do was accuse folks of doing something they know nothing about while using a pseudonym.
Newton Gal– Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. [Really, I didn’t make that up]. To my eye, Chestnut Hill Square is a great looking plaza. In fact, I was just over there last night to grab a nice meal at Brio. I think the roadway improvements have done an excellent job mitigating traffic problems that have plagued that area for years. And those problems were certainly not created by Chestnut Hill Square, since the plaza was effectively closed for a decade or so. As far as access to the site by emergency vehicles, I’m certain all public safety departments weighed-in during the approval process. Gated emergency entrances are quite common. I’m sure it doesn’t create an access issue for the Fire Department.
Thanks for your comment Mike Striar. I am very glad that you enjoyed your dinner at Brio. Even though I don’t always agree with your opinion I do respect the fact that you are not complacent like so many and that you participate debate and conversation which is great! If I had my way we would have taken that land by imminent domain and it would have been made it into a public park and memorial for the victims who lost their lives in that horrific fire. The amount of retail space and restaurants in Newton has literally quadrupled in the last couple of years. It will be interesting to see if the demand can match the supply. As they say on Wallstreet….there are bears, bulls, and pigs and pigs get slaughtered.
Although she’s wrong about access for emergency vehicles, Newton Gal raises two good points I’d like to follow up on…
First, Chestnut Hill Square should [at the very least] have a plaque dedicated to the memory of the people who died in the tragic fire there years ago. Those people deserve to be remembered, and the rest of us should never forget. I’d like to see the Newton Historic Commission file a formal request to install a plaque…
Secondly, there has been a dramatic increase in the number of restaurants in Newton the past few years. Since I don’t cook, and tend to live on take-out food, I see this as a wonderful thing. But to assure the reputation of the good restaurants and inform consumers about their behind-the-scenes practices, it’s past time our Board of Health implemented a letter grading system to be awarded after routine [and hopefully frequent] inspections. As in other places, those grades should be prominently displayed in restaurant windows for consumers to see. I want to know the date of the last time a restaurant was inspected, and whether its adherence to health department rules warranted an “A” or a “C.”
Mike Striar — I’m unsure about a grading system — but if you are, please include food markets in this system. In addition to the major markets that are increasingly putting prepared foods out for the public, there are lots of smaller markets in Newton doing the same. These markets should be meeting the same standards as a sit down place, but I see staff and customers mishandling items too often. Anything intended to be hot, left uncovered, will almost certainly not be at the required temperature throughout the pan. The utensils shouldn’t be used in more than one pan, and when something gets contaminated with what’s in another pan, it should be discarded. (I once saw an employee picking cole slaw out of the olive tray — and she put the cole slaw back in the cole slaw tray!)
As a good resource, City Hall should make a portal with all inspections on-line, similar to what Boston does. That would be a great help
I should add that seafood has become so expensive that I see large and small markets packaging and freezing unbranded seafood. Is this product that was previously thawed, on-ice and was reaching it’s shelf life? Is anyone testing this seafood and ensuring proper freezing methods?
Seriously I hope the city isn’t paying for the extra fire detail? I agree the facade is definitely unfortunate. (My 6yo can put up magazine pictures on a wall too and would *love* a summer job if ice cream is included.) The lack of memorial is shameful, the developers could have put a bit of green with benches that would have also benefitted the stores and shoppers. With all the hype and the wait, I really wanted to love Wegmans – perhaps I will eventually but I found the interior to be dark and the paint job depressing. Feels like a grocery store in a parking garage, freshness not included. Great that it’s actually done though and we can go on about the business if complaining about the parking.
May I gently urge people to refrain from assuming the worst, just because it best fits your preconceived notions.
First, I know that Wegmans and Chestnut Hill Square have been working with our public safety officials for many months to make sure they had a smooth and safe opening. That included scheduling the paid details people here are so worried about.
Second, I know first-hand that New England Development reached out very early to family members connected to the fire victims, asking them their feelings about an on site memorial. I do not know the specifics because as I said, these were private conversations. I do not know that there was consensus to handle this privately.
In other words, the victims families dictated this decision, not corporate indifference or greed.
Finally Mike Striar, I’ve got some good news! The city is presently working with restaurants on adopting a grading system. Presently, restaurant operators and their staff are attending classes that are being offered monthly and taught by health department staff directly linked to making sure they fully understand the grading system and, more importantly, the steps that need to be taken to earn an excellent grade.
Greg, I’ll only assume the worst, then, about the building features and the cheap image it will project on city real estate for years to come. I think it’s safe to say we all gave up long ago, Aldermen included, on a development at this site which would reverse the trend against a livable streetscape on route 9, or even walkability from abutting developments like Avalon.
I agree Adam, it’s a real loss that this site is not more friendly to pedestrians and bikers Our entire community — and not just the developers — share some of the blame for that, just as we’re in danger of doing elsewhere in our city.
Greig Reibman- Would you please expound on where the emergency vehicles can enter the Wegmans parking lot from Florence Street? Are you referring to the large metal gate that has curbs in front of it? If our fire trucks get damaged plowing through that gate who is paying to fix them? I hope that the developer put a helipad on the roof of the building so that medi-flights can get in there in case of an emergency when Rte 9 is a parking lot and at a complete stand still.
In terms of me being smarter than most of our city officials I have to say that if I am not smarter I am at least a lot less arrogant than a good number of them.
I am curious if Greg Reibman ever read the transcripts from the lawsuits that took place after that fire at 200 Boylston Street? It might be good summer reading for you? I think that you would find them very illuminating. The phoney facade on the front of the Wegmans plaza with the walkway to nowhere reminds me of the walkway inside the Callahan tunnel. It is long and narrow with plenty of cars to view from it and lots of carbon monoxide to breathe in as you take your leisurely stroll down it.
Mike Striar- I think that is a wonderful idea about the grading system for restaurants. I just noticed that we lost three restaurants in Newton recently. Appetito and the B Street cafe have for rent signs on them in Newton Centre and it appears as though the Thai restaurant in Newton Highlands might have closed as it hasn’t been open and there are no signs explaining why? Do you remember the good old days when The Valley’s restaurant used to be located where the now defunct Atrium mall is?
Joyce Leonardo- I agree with you about the choice of paint color in that store. It is a very disturbing mustard yellow that did not put me in the mood to shop at all. It also didn’t help that I was being accosted by shopping carriages every which way that I turned. It was complete mayhem in that store on the first and last day that I visited it. I will be sticking with my good old Wholefoods and Sudbury Farms.
Newton Gal– Yes, I do remember Valley’s, [and I’m really dating myself here] a country club that was behind it on Florence Street. I seem to recall going to a Bar Mitzvah there when I was a kid. Newton has changed SO much over the years. Some things for the better, other things for the worse. But THE thing I’m always amazed by, is how much more traffic Newton has than it did back in the day. Thanks for your comments. I can tell you love our city, and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed our dialogue.
@Greg– That’s great news about the restaurant grading system. I think the City has really fallen short in so many ways when it comes to protecting our consumers. Grading restaurants will be a great step in the right direction. And I agree with Hoss that I’d like to eventually see the system expanded to cover markets which sell pre-prepared foods.
Valle’s. Sidney Hill.
Mike Striar- Thanks for your kind words. I have lived in Newton for most of my life since 1976. I am very proud of the fact that it is a city that does not allow drive thru restaurants (except for the McDonalds on California Street) and that neon signs are still frowned upon for the most part but I am seeing a lot of things lately in our government that really concerns and bothers me. I do not understand why we have city employees making decisions about Newton infrastructure and development who do not reside in our city as they certainly earn enough money to do so? I feel that the heads of our key departments in city hall should be people who live in Newton and have to live with the decisions that they make for Newton. I do care a lot about this city but I have to say that I have been thinking of moving out of Newton if anymore Tuscan style stucco McMansions pop up in my neighborhood. I know that there is no legislating good taste but when did this style of house become so popular? I never thought stucco was a great building material for our cold New England climate? I thought that it was meant for arid climates like Phoenix, AZ? Can someone please tell me why every single new house that is being built on the South Side of Newton is a drab beige stucco material house? Are the plans to this style house being sold cheaply out of a Sears catalog or something? What is the story?
@NewtonGal, why do you think? Perhaps a developer, trying to turn a quick profit, would rather spray stucco than spend a lot of time and money hanging wooden shingles? Some of our department heads do live in Newton. Our Mayor certainly does. I’m sorry you think they’re overpaid. They could probably earn far more money in the private sector.
Adam-I was recently looking at the salaries of City of Newton employees and I thought that they looked pretty well compensated except for our Aldermen who only make $10,800 per year although they do get free health insurance for life after so many terms I believe (Greg correct me if I am wrong). This is public information available on the city website. I wish there was some way to get the builders in my area to start incorporating some other architectural styles into the repetoirs besides Orange County stucco. The ladies from the television show Real Housewifes of Orange County would feel very at home on the South Side of Newton!
Okay, I will let Greg will correct you 😉
Regarding salaries, some department heads earn salaries in the low 6 figures, some don’t break that barrier. Look at their qualifications and the number of people they manage and compare it to a private sector job, or the salaries of Newton residents with similar responsibilities and tell us if you still think they’re overcompensated.
Couldn’t agree more about the stucco, though, especially in my neighborhood where they just put one up amongst 1920’s homes. I guess once the historical commission lets them tear down a house, nobody gets any say. I wonder if the historical commission even had the opportunity to make the finish a contingency (historical review, but not a historic district)? It’s not always as simple as it seems. There are legal constraints to what the city can do sometimes.
I may be remembering wrong, but I believe at one Historic Commission meeting I was at, they were discussing waiving the demolition delay on a teardown if the person agreed to do something better than vinyl siding on the new house. That was the only influence they had. And the person seemed inclined to wait out the delay to do vinyl.
Julia – that sounds about right. In this case, the commission voted 3-2 against preservation. I guess that means the commission has to rule that the house itself is of historical significance in order to have any influence on what the replacement would look like.
Adam-It has been my experience that the heads of certain depts. in city hall spend their days hiding in their back offices and gossiping instead of actually working. When a problem or concern arises they act like ostriches and hide their heads in the sand and try and deflect the blame onto other depts. No one is ever accountable it seems. It is really very frustrating. I would glady take $106K per year plus amazing benefits to do that job any day of the week! Sign me up!
I thought they spent their days hiding in their back offices reading Village 14.
Must be frustrating when they do and along comes some know-it-all anonymous person who feels they can just make up “her” own facts based on some vague reference to their “experience.”
Greg Reibman-Please educate me about that vague entrance to the Wegmans plaza from Florence Street please?
Are we to believe an anonymous blogger over the fire chief? How bad is this?
What experience? Do tell.
Jane-Did you ever see the movie Silkwood with Cher and Meryl Streep?
Of course I did.
Get a grip.
The Historical Commission has no teeth. They can only delay demolition for 12 months, which is about the time it takes to put together a respectable set of design and construction documents. Lt em rip !
I challenge anyone to show me a typical, cheap stucco finish over insulation board ( as opposed to quality metal lath and stucco – which is almost impossible to duplicate today ), that has not come apart at the joints after less than 5 years. Where might I find one? Newton will be looking great in decades to come!
Jane- You are very naive to tell me “to get a grip”. You obviously have never been harmed by anyone for expressing your opinions or for exposing illegal activity before. Either that or you are on the City’s dole or developer’s dole and have a financial interest in disparaging me. I speak the truth. Do your due diligence and stop living in a bubble. I notice that you are anonymous as well so what is your deal?
BluePrintBill-You are absolutely correct about the type of stucco that they are using locally. They are using it because it is cheaper than wood or brick. I am surprised that the banks give out $2 million mortgages to buy these types of houses that will definitely be filled with mold and rot in five years. They are so offensive to look at too….just like the faces of the builders who build them.
When the builder’s of these stucco homes post a sign on the lawn telling what bank is financing the project be sure to call that bank and tell them that you do not appreciate them financing these garish homes in Newton. Village Bank and Needham Bank are big sponsors of the builders on the South Side. If you have money in those banks take it elsewhere if you don’t like what they are doing. The only way to get attention and to get change is to hurt people in their Prada pocketbooks and wallets people! Sad but true.
And to anonymous blogger Jane, are we to trust you?
Fire chiefs, like politicians and mayors are appointed to their work and have a lot of anatomy to keep covered, and in doing so have been known to say and do things that some might take issue with. Some might say they could even lie. Lie to their minions, to their superiors, lie to their constituents, even lie to themselves. They have a love affair with power and as we all know power corrupts. So let’s trust them!
OMG. The conspiracy theories here! Jane’s right, get a grip folks. Newton is not an Oliver Stone movie. Our public servants don’t deserve your anonymous, mean-spirited, fact-less attacks. This thread is closed.