Note: This thread has been updated with this photo from Shaw’s.
Newton’s plastic bag ban, approved by aldermen in January on a 22-0 vote, goes into effect July 30. The restrictions apply to commercial entities with retail space larger than 3,500 square feet or a with at least two retail space locations under the same name within Newton that together total at least 3,500 square feet. Other exemptions apply too.
Have you been hoarding plastic bags in preparation?
According to Green Newton, Shaw’s no longer offers plastic bags and is charging 10 cents for each paper bag, which was discussed by the aldermen but is not required. Has anyone experienced this?
They are charging 10 cents for a thicker plastic bag which they are calling reusable, but I think that’s debatable.
Greg, the new rules do not start until next week so we have not experienced it yet.
As you noted and as I was told by a store supervisor, paper bags will also now be a chargeable item. Thank you BOA for again nickel and diming me with another “government tax” for the privilege of living in Newton. The store sign states they will be giving the proceeds to a local organization. Does that mean I can also claim a tax write-off for my added expenditure as a charitable donation?
Without the free plastic bags I will now be less inclined to pick up the neighborhood trash as I walk my dogs. Maybe the city can issue free bags for such a purpose to help the residents help the city maintain its title of the “Garden City”. Given the unconscionable fee ($2.25 each) the city charges for their own PLASTIC trash bags for overflow trash, I doubt the city will be doing anything for free regarding trash collection.
BTW, the Nature’s Promise reusable tote bags (with the environmentally friendly green leaf logo) that were recently offered for sale in Stop & Shop are made 100% of plastic with 0% recycled materials used. The plastic bags the BOA banned are made with up to 15% recycled materials. So much for making the world better for the turtles.
@Patrick: Although some communities require that merchants charge for paper bags, that’s not a requirement in Newton.
I’ve been happily using the tote bags for a couple of years now. They get the job done and relieve my house of plastic bag clutter. I’ll be going out of my way to shop with them at grocery stores in Needham and Waltham. I’d rather waste my time and my gasoline than support Newtonian idiocy.
Greg, the new charge for paper bags is an unintended consequence of the BOA banning the “single use” plastic bags. I don’t care who started the new fee frenzy, The consumer is the one who pays for this folly. Do you really think the big box stores, that the NN Chamber represents, would start posting a separate charge for the paper bags without the city first deciding to initiate the ban. The cost for the paper and single use plastic bags was already factored into the price of the products as a fixed cost. They are now charging for the paper bags because the city decided to unilaterally change the stores’ pricing model.
And as Alderwoman Norton, who co-sponsored the “single use plastic bags from big box stores” ban, pointed out above, it is questionable whether the new plastic bags, that are exempt from the ban because of their thickness, will improve conditions for the turtles in the Pacific Ocean.
@Patrick: Why are you lecturing me? This wasn’t my idea. It wasn’t the Chamber’s either. However, after recognizing that there were enough votes on the board to approve it, the Chamber pushed for a compromise, which was the exemption for smaller merchants. I’m grateful to the aldermen who worked with us on this.
Shaw’s, for the record, is not a Chamber member and I have no inside knowledge of their strategy. To the best of my knowledge they may be the only merchant that has opted to charge customers for bags. The others, as you’ve suggested, have built the cost into their operating costs and, yes, the prices we pay. Nothing wrong with either free market approach, although I suspect they may face customer resistance and reverse this. Either way, I hope they will rework their sign which implies that they are now required to charge for bags (and while they’re at it, they might as well correctly identify Newton as a city, not a town).
Greg, let me start this comment with an apology to you if you felt lectured. That was not my intent.
Your initial post asked if anyone had experienced the new charge. That confused me because the sign indicates the fee does not start until next week. Why / how could anyone experience it yet? (Maybe Rod Taylor is reading V14.) Upon re-reading the sign, it appears to have multiple errors. You pointed out the “town / city” mistake. The sign also indicates they will no longer use plastic bags even though their new chargeable solution is a plastic bag. So I guess the start date could be an error also.
The shortcoming of blogs is the lack of the inclusion of tone in the comments. I am not a big user of capital letters and emoticons. I should have started my second paragraph with my sarcastic “thank you” to the BOA. What followed in my first comment was really directed at the BOA utilizing your open forum.
My second comment started with a reply to you regarding the unintended consequences of charging for paper bags, which is now associated with the BOA’s 22 – 0 vote for the plastic bag ban. Many on the BOA are probably happy with the paper bag charge based on their comments during the discussion before their voting. I continued to express my frustration with the situation. I find it ironic that the solution to banning single use plastic bags is to offer thicker plastic bags, which the BOA approved within the guidelines of their ban. And as Alderwoman Norton expresses her concern for the viability of the new bags being a solution, I guess the turtles in the Pacific Ocean still have a lot for which to worry.
If Shaws / Star Market is not a member of the NNC, then you have found an opportunity. They do have three major stores within Newton (three of Star’s first ten original store locations).
I will end this comment by expressing that I find it interesting that you felt defensive that I would lecture you. You, who is a prime example of someone prone to brash verbal treatment of participants on this blog, should be able to handle the comments of others even if they are partially misdirected.
Housekeeping note: I’ve removed one of my own comments and a followup comment for being overly confusing and, yes, snarky.
@Paul: I asked two questions: the first was is anyone hoarding bags in preparation and the second was wondering if anyone has experienced Shaw’s implementing the bag ban prior to the July 30 deadline? So no, I wasn’t advocating time travel. My apologies for not understanding your reference.
Yes, while I’m a minimalist in most things, I’ve been hoarding the bags for sometime now, and grabbing extras at the self checkouts.
I also have parents in the central MA area that saves all theirs for me as well. Weird I know, but gosh I use them for everything! I figure at my current level, I should be good for many years to come! Of course I plan to continue to stockpile from those towns that actually focus on governing and not the “green” fad of the moment.
Shaws/Star Market started the ban a few weeks ago.
I did not realize they were charging for paper bags but I can ask my daughter who works there.
The plastic bag ban just went into effect in Honolulu. The asian markets charge $.10 per bag (heavier plastic bags). The Nordstrom department store is offering nice reusable tote bags for $1.50. There is no charge on the paper bags at the Safeway. It’s interesting to see a lot of the elders (including my parents) adjusting (not happily) – but they are. I frequently remind them how important it is for them to recycle too (to save the planet for my kids and their kids).
I started stockpiling plastic bags weeks ago. I easily have enough for several years. The employees at the super market were happy to give me giant piles of plastic bags at the check out. I use them for my dog – paper bags or reusable tote bags just don’t cut it, and the produce bags are too small with a too small opening.
Amy, I was at the Newtonville Star today. Since I did not bring any bags with me, I had 3 choices: free paper bags, free “single use” plastic bags, or billable reusable bags. The sign states the new rules start next Thursday. Maybe the other Newton store(s) ran down their plastic bag inventory quicker than Newtonville.
I opted to invest in one of the new billable bags so I can conduct a non-scientific experiment. I want to see how many round-trips to the store I can achieve. Tonight I noticed it has already started collecting some kind of dirt on and in it. I will need to be more careful bringing the bags into the house. Maybe I will store it in a bigger reclosable plastic bag so as to keep it clean between usage.
The bag has verbiage on it indicating there is a recognized shelf life to the bag: “This bag has been manufactured for multiple reuse and recyclability. After use life, please return to your local store for recycling.” Sounds like the same request on the “single use” bags albeit after a few extra trips to the store.
The good news is that the new bag states: “This Everlasting Bag (hyperbole given the shelf life note above) is 100% recyclable and consists of 80% post-consumer recycled material resulting in a 60% reduction in CO2 emissions.” That is a major upgrade from the 15% level offered with the “single use” plastic bags.
The not so good news is that the new bags are made in Germany rather than the USA as is the case with the “single use” bags. So instead of a train ride (or trucks) to get the bag to the company’s distribution center, the bags are now transported via freight vessels from Europe. I doubt they use airplanes since that is far more expensive; I will include that comparison in my research endeavors. So now we are increasing the shipping traffic impacting the turtles in the Atlantic Ocean. I wonder how much non-environmentally friendly discharge will be emitted by the freight ships? Or maybe they will use solar powered vessels. Or we could return to the days of sailing ships, and use wind power to provide us our new reusable bags?
Remember when using any grocery bags that meat, poultry and fish can cause cross-contamination. So be careful to carry them separately. And don’t forget to wash that reusable bag after carrying those items in them! Oh, and Patrick, if you are calculating the cost/benefit analysis, don’t forget to include this important washing/drying cycle that will keep consumers from getting sick. Or, alternatively, the cost of lost wages/school days if the consumer spreads bacteria to him/herself or his/her family. It’s never black and white or really simple, is it?
Ideally folks will start remembering to bring their own bags. That is what happens over time in other communities that have instituted these bans.
Sallee, good point about the cost of washing the bags. Maybe the BOA will give us a credit on our water rates for helping the turtles.
And I failed to include in my prior comment that with the new bags we are sending jobs overseas to Germany.
Emily, I would guess that Newton will follow the same behavior as other communities over time. That does not mean a segment of the voting population agrees with the ban, the added cost and inconvenience to us, and the added regulations imparted upon us by government. Silent compliance does not mean agreement; in fact it could mask a growing disenchantment with the direction of the government. JMO.
The next time someone tells you that the “workload” necessitates a 24 member City Council, try to remember that this [plastic bag ban] is the type of thing they’re talking about. There is no way in hell that this ban would have passed a City Council with only 8 members.
Oh really, Mike? Think again.
Touché
Greg stole my “touche.” But seriously Ted, do you think this ban would have passed an 8 member Council in NEWTON?
Also, while I have your attention for a moment… Why is it that no one in Newton seems to be enforcing the law requiring merchants to give consumers a clear view of cash register windows? And how does Walgreens get away with charging different prices to consumers based on membership? I don’t mean to put you on the spot. But these things [along with the plastic nag ban] indicate to me that no one in city government gives two hoots about Newton consumers.
Sorry. BAG ban, not nag ban. I’d be in favor of banning plastic nags.
Ted, based on the information I learned from your slides, the turtles are safer from all of the glass bottles and jars sinking to the bottom of the ocean for 1,000,000 years before they decompose rather than trying to avoid the floating plastic bags for 10 – 20 years before they decompose. Interesting. The same can be said about all those metal ships resting on the bottom of the seven seas; except the rust elements that might be resurfacing could have a negative affect on the turtles. Maybe we should go back to 100% wooden ships. Steven Stills and David Crosby would like that.
My wife was based over in Ireland a 15 years ago. They introduced a ban on plastic bags back in 2002. When I would visit and head to the grocery store I would always forget and have to pay for the bags. By and large every pretty much adapted and it’s been a huge success. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/world/europe/31iht-bags.4.9650382.html?pagewanted=all&referrer=&_r=0
To the 22 BOA members who voted for the ban, I have some disappointing news. Shaws/Star has rescinded the newly instituted $0.10 fee per paper bag (actually it was an $0.11 fee per bag because it was taxable; the state wanted their share of the new revenue stream created by the BOA’s actions).
It appears Shaws/Star chose to listen to their constituents/customers, who made it known that bag fees are unacceptable. Since I had purchased one reusable plastic bag for my non-scientific experiment (noted above), I was able to fit the sale items at Star into the one bag. Then I went to Waltham to do the remaining 85% of my shopping. It was not that bad of an experience visiting Waltham’s retail stores.
@Patrick: Once again, charging for paper bags is not required under Newton’s ordinance.
Greg, I understand that the fee for paper bags was not part of the current ban. However, I did attend the BOA vote, and if you watch the video you will see that many of the BOA members either expressed a desire to include paper bags in the vote, or they indicated that banning plastic bags was a very good first step. I fully expect that paper bags are next on the list of banned items for Alderwomen Leary, Norton, Fuller and others.
Someone with less of a bias than myself and Alderwoman Leary should do a full cost analysis on the various options now available to Newton citizens. The new reusable plastic bags are not a better overall economic solution, and it is only a matter of time before the new bags are floating in the water attacking the turtles.
True enough but a fee on bags would have never passed by a 22-0 vote. And it may be the desire of some members to try that sometime but I do not believe it will pass any time soon.
As one of the original sponsors of the plastic bag ban, from an environmental protection perspective, I would have liked to have passed a ban on plastic bags and a fee on paper bags. There are environmental impacts even from paper bags made from recycled material. We also considered a plastic bag fee. As we went through various iterations in committee, however, we narrowed it down to the plastic bag ban and left the paper bag fee for another day. In other words, we chose not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.