I am so proud to live in a city where the chief of police was first in line in a protest march
against civil rights injustices, and where the mayor was in attendance as well. (Photos by Greg Reibman.)
I am so proud to live in a city where the chief of police was first in line in a protest march against civil rights injustices, and where the mayor was in attendance as well. (Photos by Greg Reibman.)
That’s ironic when the chief of police restricts first time applicants licenses to carry (unlike the majority of towns in MA). Last time I checked, self-defense was a civil right. Granted he has done way better than previous chiefs who refused to upgrade licenses at all…
But hey, at least he showed up at a protest… Actions as the LO for the town be damned.
Mike
Thanks for participating, Gail. I made sure to thank and shake the hand of every police officer I passed along the route. I am reliably informed there were over 600 people in the sanctuary at FUSN, many of whom were standing or sitting on the floor and in the aisles, and that between 900 and 1000 people marched all or part of the route.
I recognized many people, particularly from the Myrtle Baptist and FUSN congregations, from the Democratic City Committee, elected officials and others. But it did my heart good to realize that there were so many people whom I had never seen or met before. I talked to folks from Newton, all parts of Boston, Brookline, Cambridge and other neighboring communities who just wanted to be part of something. Lots of kids too. There were television cameras (Channel 7 sent their truck), and newspapers (nice to see you Jim Morrison) covering the event as well.
Thanks to everyone who helped organized, marched, volunteered, and helped clean up, and to the Chief Howard Mintz and the officers of the NPD who kept us all safe.
I agree Gail, I was proud of my city tonight too. Our clergy really rose to the occasion too.
However, it did not feel like a “protest” to me. (Tweets from the Globe reporter, Channel 7 and others used that word too.) It felt like an affirmation of our resolve.
One of many reasons Joanne and i have elected to stay in Newton.
Good point Greg. I think the Rev. Stacy Swain said it best when she said that we walk because there’s a long way to go.
Gail, what makes you think the Mayor was there? At the reception afterward, the buzz in the room was that the Mayor was conspicuously absent from the march.
Ken, I saw and spoke to the mayor. I took his photo as well.
At the beginning of the march, before we left Myrtle Baptist, one of the speakers noted the Mayor.
Very interesting. Thanks, Tricia. So apparently, he came to Myrtle Baptist, but then did not participate in the march. That would explain why so many people were commenting on his absence.
Ken, I have no idea whether he marched or not – given the crowd, the people at the front of the march arrived in West Newton a good 20 minutes or more before the folks at the back.
Tricia,
You were there? I didn’t see you. Hmm.
Thanks, Tricia and Gail. Mystery solved!
@Gail – I didn’t see you either. Hmmm is right.
I didn’t see any of you there.
Tricia, I saw you but didn’t see any of the other posting here either. Hmmm
My conversations with people were positive and focused on how nice it was to come together as a community for a common cause. A huge thank you to Rev. Howard Haywood for proposing an event that brought together people of all ages, backgrounds, and walks of life. I had many friends who wanted to be there but were unable to, or could only take walk a short distance, due to prior commitments. The turnout was truly amazing given the short notice.
Was the purpose of this gathering to be ‘SEEN’?
…by each other?
I hope not, since apparently none of us managed it – not even the Mayor, according to the “buzz”.
@Janet, the point is that black boys are dying at the hands of the police all over this great country of ours, and it has been going on, unchecked for years and it has to stop. The point is that we need to have civil discourse and dialog that addresses this, so that it can stop. The point is peace through justice, and equal treatment for all under the law.
Janet – It was a joke. It was a silent march with hundreds of people so you might have seen a few people from afar, but no one talked. It was a period of reflection (and as Greg mentioned, resolve) rather than looking around to “see who’s here”.
If anything, the comments reflected the reality that many people attended a silent protest march about horrific events in our country and a few chose to gossip in someone else’s house of worship.
The Mayor had a busy schedule yesterday. Along with the silent protest, he also attended the Nonantum tree lighting ceremony. That started at 530 so I imagine he had to make a quick exit from West Newton to get to Nonantum.
I did not attend either event but I am pleased to see that the protest was attended by so many people. I am also happy that it’s mission seemed to be accomplished without the need for disrupting traffic. Well done.
It was a joke? Sadly, according to the
US DOJ’s Bureau of Justice Statistics:
I don’t know how many people marched, but I will venture an estimate that there were at least 600 people in the Sanctuary. I was told by a very reliable source that the capacity is 500, and it was clearly filled to overflowing. It was truly amazing to witness so many people gather together in solidarity to seek change, and like others here it made me thankful and proud to be a part of this community.
Oh, dear God, Janet. That’s not what I meant, but I think you knew that. A comment was made that after a very important community event, some people chose to gossip in other people’s house of worship about a silly, irrelevant issue. Other posters tried to distract attention from that in appropriate comment in a light hearted way.
People gathered in a hope for equal justice under the law.
And again… you all miss the point. Why is 90% of this happening in the first place? Its not racism, its bad policy. But by all means, continue to get upset over a very minor aspect of the bigger overall problem and demand nothing of your elected officials towards fixing the root issues.
If neither Eric Garner or Michael Brown had not resisted arrest, they would in all likelihood both be alive today.
Probably true… but in the case of Eric Garner he should not even have been given anything more than a summons for the alleged crime of selling cigarettes.
That is the problem. Not that he was black and the cops were white. There are too many “crimes” in this country. Citizens need to take a step back when and ask themselves are X Y and Z law something people should die over?
Mike (Not Striar)
Eliminating laws is not the way to make people law-abiding. Making people respect the law is how to do it.
Regardless of whether or not selling loose cigarettes is a just law or not, as long as it’s the law, a person should not do it, accept the consequences of being caught if they do it, and maybe people should work to change the law. We have become a country of law-breakers, of people who feel they can keep a law that agree with and break a law they disagree with. And today, that law-breaking goes all the way to the top.
I don’t know exactly what transpired with Eric Garner before the take-down we saw on the video. Perhaps the cops asked him to allow them to cuff him, to avoid a physical conflict. What I saw was the part where he raised his hands as they tried to take them, said “don’t touch me” or something, and they took him down. Had he let them cuff him, he probably would be alive today. There was nothing clearly to be gained by his resisting. But, honestly, neither I nor probably anyone else here knows for sure what led to the take-down. I do know that he had had 31 arrests, at least 9 for the cigarette offense, so he understood the situation.
That was the point of my comment about the Boy Scouts that you didn’t like. They are conditioned to live according to a clear code of behavior in their motto. Be “kind, cheerful, thrifty, obedient, brave, clean, diligent, etc.” or however it goes. That’s not how people bring their kids up today for the most part. What people see today is parents supporting building more casinos, legalizing pot, living together and having kids while unmarried, supporting pornography on the internet.
What do we expect? Are these good role models for kids?
Wow. A whole lot of whitesplaining on this thread… Thanks for letting us know what the real issue is. Again.
I think Tricia wins “best comment” hands down.
Tricia,
It’s clear that most people on this thread DON’T know what the real issues are. They just want to feel really good about themselves, pat themselves on the back for being caring, and screw the law. Why don’t you just intelligently explain in some depth your viewpoint on this whole issue, instead of making snarky, childish, pouting comments?
And your friend Ted loves terrorists from Guantanamo more than the citizens of Newton, so he’s no point of reference on what is right and wrong.
@Tricia: Like
Greg. No surprise.
You know, this is serious business. It’s not about your feeling good. It’s about whether or not we trust our judicial system. It’s about whether or not we believe our police act to protect us. To justify a lack of trust the judicial system or the police, you need more evidence than either of these two cases, which you know little about in detail, before you participate in nation-wide protests.
@Barry: We agree 100 percent! It’s true that we “know little” about these two cases. That’s why I felt it was important to be there Sunday. Neither case was tried in open court. Neither case offered full due process and cross examination. It had nothing to do with “feeling good” and everything to do with expressing a shared concern (or to use your words “lack of trust”) precisely because we did not know and likely will never know.
WE don’t have to know. That’s how the grand jury system works. Open court follows an indictment, proof of probable cause, which they decided didn’t exist. We’re not the courts. It’s their job to serve justice. Who are you anyway, as far as these cases are concerned?
Do you know about the details of the cases of all the 2 million people currently in the prison system?
I’ll add one thing, which really pisses me off. What happened in Ferguson, and what you are participating in is street justice, like a lynch mob. If any party should understand why a legal system is important, it should be all the blacks that over many years were lynched, beaten up, and other things, because someone accused them of some crime, especially raping a white woman. What’s happening now is not better, only that, instead of ignorant white people killing blacks on a tree, ignorant black people people (and others) are burning businesses, cars, and homes, and otherwise interfering with the lives of totally uninvolved people.
But, you can go with your slogans and march.
Barry, just because something is the law does not mean people should comply. Police are not special, they work for the tax payer. I don’t like the idea of “getting in handcuffs” because it makes them feel better when I have committed no crime. Also, plenty of laws are garbage, “because it is the law” is not a good reason to capitulate your freedoms. Take your good friend Ted’s constant push to ban leaf blowers in the city. If a law is passed (especially with no scientific backing) that forbids you from using your leaf blower, or say your snow blower will you simply stop doing it? Do you have no problem with the cops arresting those who don’t comply? Especially those with the immediate blessing of their neighbors? I’d like to think you’d not roll over for the city in terms of what you do on your own property.
Also, your consistent claims that there is a breakdown in the morals of society leading to all this is crap. The U.S. is at a 40+ year violent crime low. If anything our society is improving in many aspects. Free adults should be free to do as they please. It is the responsibility of parents to raise their children how they see fit. I won’t even touch the living together unmarried thing…
Now onto the “whitesplaining,” keep up making race the key issue where it is not, or at the very least it is not most prominently. This is a perfect example of how everyone who says anything different is either told they don’t have a say because they are white or is called a “race traitor.” I’m standing up for Garner, but not because its white on black, but because it is police brutality over something that should NOT be an issue. Ted, good work jumping behind her because you are oh so “not racist” and “politically correct.” It reminds me of the recent viral video of the white Berkeley student who “is in college” telling the 60 year old black cop from Mississippi all about racism that he knows nothing about. It’s ridiculous. But since I’m white and don’t agree with all this ridiculous I’m clearly racist, and my black friends (including cops) who I have discussed this with are also clearly race traitors.
Mike
Mike (Not Striar) and Barry, despite the obviously vast experience of two white men like yourselves with what it is like growing up and being black in America, I am going to trust and rely upon what my many good African-American friends from Myrtle Baptist Church and elsewhere tell me. On the one hand, you complain that white people with a different point of view are told to shut up, while at the same time I can see you would clearly like people of color to just shut up about how they view the killing of so many black boys and men without consequence by the very people who are sworn to serve and protect the public. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But it doesn’t mean you know what you are talking about.
And Barry, what’s the harm of “feeling good” by doing something that is clearly right. The event on Sunday was a measured and responsible resp0nse to bitter and long simmering anger in minority communities about the conduct of certain police forces in these areas. I think Marie Jackson will corroborate what I said in an earlier post. The feeling here is similar to what Catholic neighborhoods in Belfast, Derry and other urban areas were feeling at the height of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland during the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. So, it’s no surprise that they modeled their resistance after the peaceful resistance strategies employed by America’s Civil Rights Movement and that pictures of Martin Luther King were interspersed with those of JFK, Pope John XXIII and famous Irish resistance figures from the past. And it’s also true that these marches occasionally spawned some violence at the fringes. What I’m arguing is that these Irish demonstrations like the ones here last week transcended race or ethnicity. They were all about justice and fairness.
To the surprise of some, I guess, no cars were torched or businesses leveled in Newton over the past weekend. In fact, the gathering Myrtle Baptist Church was probably a lot like the overwhelming majority of other demonstrations that were taking place across America–peaceful, pointed and positive.
Mike (not Striar)
Okay, so, first, we disagree on the need to comply with the law. I wouldn’t use a leaf blower if it were against the law. People used to burn leaves by the curb, but it’s illegal, even though it’s convenient. Today, it appears that no-one does it anymore.
Second, I suspect that I’m a lot older than you are. Society went through a significant transformation since around 1970. I’ve seen it and the older folks on this blog know what I am talking about. The claim of moral decay is not “crap”.
I’m not sure what you are trying to say in your third paragraph, other than the Garner issue is one of excessive use of force by the police and not racism, which it appears his family also believes. I’d agree, but I also will let the judicial system decide guilt and not the idiots on the street led around by demagogues like Al Sharpton. Plenty of white folks are roughed up by police also and killed, but it just doesn’t get interpreted as a pattern of discrimination, leading to street violence.
Now, Ted,
I never said anyone should “shut up”, and I don’t know what it’s like to be black. I just don’t like mobs in the streets. Most demonstrators that I’ve seen, especially in Ferguson, don’t want what maybe you think you want. They want that cop indicted and convicted because they are convinced that he’s guilty. That’s a lynch mob. If he had appeared around that mob when the decision came down, I’m sure some would have attacked him and possibly killed him. I’m not sure what you think you want. I’d also ask BOB what he actually wants. The Irish wanted an Ireland free of British control. That was pretty clear.
Oh Barry, again you aren’t correct. Most of the Catholic population in Northern Ireland did not want to merge with the Republic of Ireland. What they really wanted was fairness and dignity from London and they never fully got this until Tony Blaire and Labor came into power. I sense that this kind of fairness and dignity is also what the overwhelming majority of African Americans are also seeking. More to the point, most people in the Republic didn’t want to contend with a million or more hostile Orange Men or a plethora of new political groups that would come in any package with a United Ireland.
Okay, BOB,
Maybe I’m wrong. I know that the origin of the conflict goes back hundreds of years which led to a free Ireland, not including Northern Ireland. I think that the IRA, the most vocal group, wanted NI free from England. Maybe the average person in NI didn’t. I don’t know.
But, as I ask people here, what do you want from the system in the US? One person (Marti) answered me with things I thought were reasonable but not germane to the current situation: elimination of no-knock warrants, elimination of seizure of assets without cause. Some say eliminate “stop and frisk”, which I think has been done, but I’m not sure. I’d agree with these. But, what would get people like you and Ted off the streets, which is to say, what concrete things would make you happy? In Ferguson, I think all they wanted was for Wilson to be convicted of murder.
Lots of overlapping issues here. One issue that should unify everyone but the pure fascists among us is the problem of police accountability, or lack thereof. The indictment rate in general is close to 100%. The indictment rate when cops are the charged is closer to 0%. Special prosecutors with no connection to the police force in question should be used any time a police officer is investigated or charged with a crime. This would be a race-neutral way to address this facet of the problem.
Barry Cohen, what the black folks in Ferguson want is to be treated like human beings, same as anyone else. The real issue, if I may be so bold, is that Ferguson is predominantly black and working class, and the police force and local government are predominantly white. There is mutual distrust between the police and the citizens, but it does not have to be that way, and would not be that way, if white police officers saw them as human beings instead of “demons” which is the way Officer Wilson described Michael Brown in his grand jury testimony. I also have deep compassion for those white police officers, who cannot help but sense the distrust and suspicion of black citizens. The demands placed on white police officers to maintain order in predominantly black neighborhoods, by a society that still cannot come to terms with the continuing impact of 400 years of institutionalized racism, is a powder keg waiting for a match.
More than fifty years ago, James Baldwin wrote an article in Esquire called “Fifth Avenue, Uptown,” about the tension between the white police officers and black people living in Harlem and the resulting violence on both sides between the police and black citizens. While many white Americans want to believe that we live in a “post racial” society today, his words are every bit as relevant today:
Until we start talking about racial matters–honestly, openly, and candidly–the racial divide in America over the killing of unarmed black boys and men will only widen.
Or maybe Ted, officer wilson had a problem with being punched in the face and having someone who just robbed a convenience store go for his gun.
Again Id like to thank you for pointing out that I am white and therefore my view on whats wrong with police in this country overall is wrong… because Im white. And not black. And your black friends know more than my black friends (in law enforcement).
I never said cops werent at times racist. I said this whole movement is overlooking the underlying issue which has to do less with race than it does with laws and law enforcement, and as has been mentioned police oversight. But again, Im wrong because Im white.
Mike
Ted,
I feel bad for you, because you are wracked with guilt. It’s been 150 years since the Emancipation Proclamation, 60 years since the Civil Rights Act. Explain this
” a society that still cannot come to terms with the continuing impact of 400 years of institutionalized racism”
Nothing has changed since 1614? Really?
Maybe, as Mike (not Striar) points out, some racism is generated when people see a video of a gigantic Michael Brown, walking out of a convenience store with cigars he didn’t buy, and roughing up the clerk who thought that it wasn’t right. Maybe some is generated when an Eric Garner stands outside a legitimate business that is selling cigarettes and paying taxes on them, offering cheap untaxed cigarettes. Maybe some is generated when black people in Ferguson burn businesses of hard-working uninvolved people who serve their community with things like pizza and fast food. Maybe some is generated when you see a string of white women who were drugged and sexually attacked by Bill Cosby.
Maybe all the blame shouldn’t be placed on white people as you would have us believe. Maybe black people also need to do some soul-searching. But your bleeding heart liberal guilt can’t cope with that.
And how will you know when you’ve eliminated the “mutual distrust between the police and the citizens”? Will you give the police and the people psychological tests to find out?
You see, it will never end in your mind. You will be marching for your perceived injustices until you die, because we live in a world that is not perfect.
Barry, as always, I will pray for you.
@Barry: Ted makes a heckuva lotta sense to me*, so I guess you’d better add me to the list of folks you feel bad for. (If I wasn’t already there)
*You can really read that James Baldwin quote and not be moved? Yowza.
I didn’t read it. I’m more concerned with what’s happening today.
Emily, I know you and many people feel the same way as Ted on this blog. It’s kind of a club. You’re living in a dream world of “don’t we feel good about ourselves”, and “if we white folks don’t help them, those black folk will never be able to figure it out”. The real bigots here are you. You need a dose of reality sometimes.
According to Barry’s logic, the Boston Police Commissioner also needs a “dose of reality”.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/12/10/boston-police-brass-teens-come-together-talk-about-relations/6yDvLRE2hAFtzzT2mhYtSP/story.html?comments=all&sort=NEWEST_CREATE_DT
Mike, not Striar, I definitely agree that there is an issue with too many bad laws, some police not being trained well enough in marksmanship and situation assessment, too much militarization of local LEO’s.
I think either many NYC (and other city) cops are not being trained to understand why “stop and frisk” and the choke hold are no longer authorized so they don’t generalize the attitude to other forms of force, have a world view that just because they are cops and you aren’t, they can force you into compliance any way necessary for virtually anything, or are afraid of using their training and need multiple cops to handle even small, non violent situations, which can quickly turn them into violent situations. There is too much reaction and not enough action executed calmly while assessing the situation.
Eric Garner was a victim of these attitudes. The choke hold has not been an authorized form of subduing a suspect since the 90’s. That alone should have gotten the cop indicted, since he killed a guy while using it. There was absolutely no reason for several cops to be involved, grab him in a choke hold, throw him to the ground and pile on him like he was a dangerous criminal.
Eric Garner is also black. Black men in NYC have not faired well in cop interactions for a long time. Walking while black, driving while black, basically doing anything while black makes you a suspect already. So Eric Garner was in double trouble.
Barry, I know no one posting here will have any effect on what you think and so do you. This is not an exchange of constructive, credible, ideas looking for common ground. You are being a name calling troll who posts bigoted tirades proclaiming your opinions as facts and being indulged. Stop it.
Janet, when did resisting arrest, unarmed become a valid reason to be killed on the spot?
When did being a 12 year old playing with a toy gun become a valid reason to be killed immediately?
When did walking in the street, being told to move to the sidewalk but refusing become a immediate death sentence?
None of them did.
Barry, one more thing.
It’s obvious you’ve never witnessed or been chased by a lynch mob.
Marti, while I generally agree with you… In certain instances (like Mike Brown beating a cop in the face), death is an unfortunate side effect of stupid actions.
Mike
Governor-Elect Charlie Baker also needs a “dose of reality” … he just posted this article to his Facebook page: http://baystatebanner.com/news/2014/dec/04/two-sons-two-very-different-conversations/
An expert (from Newton no less) weighs in on the need for more transparency in grand jury proceedings.
Marti,
Sorry I’m not marching in lock-step with the crowd here. If you want to have total agreement with your ideas, don’t use a blog. It’s a medium for exchange of ideas. You may hear some you don’t like.
I’ve probably made it clear already, but the things that bother me about this are these. First, mass hysteria. It’s a dangerous thing. These mass gatherings are a place where people are psyched to be angry and some to be violent.
Second, I asked a lot what people want. With no objectives, these things are a waste of time, in addition to the risk they pose of destruction.
Third, we need to be careful who our heroes are. Michael Brown was the wrong person to be so outraged about, given what else we knew about him. He didn’t deserve to be killed for his crime, but I believe he put a cop in a tense situation whose outcome was indefinite.
Fourth, it’s very difficult to second guess a cop and try to think about what you’d do in the same situation. I’m glad we have them, and insulting them with the kinds of demonstrations I see going on isn’t helpful.
Finally, of course, I object to placing all the blame on white people. Most of the signs in these demonstration seem to suggest that all black people are innocent saints who are preyed upon by vicious white police.
@Barry,
As Lenny Bruce said:
Stop beating a dead horse, Ted and Emily are already praying for you.
Thank you Reverend Haywood for organizing a march to protest the wrongful deaths of black men and boys that we have seen highlighted in the media in past months. On such short notice, and on such a cold day, so many people came out to join you in quiet support of the cause for justice for minorities in our nation. Hopefully we can continue to bring progress for this cause in the coming months and years.
While the media agitates for cop-killing, when it’s not wringing its hands over “islamophobia” every time there is another beheading, here is what was not reported in the cold-blooded murder of the American teacher and mother of two, Ibolya Ryan, by a devout Muslima in the ladies room of an upscale mall in Abu Dhabi.
@Janet – what media are you talking about? I havent read or seen any media “agitating for cop killing”.
Point of clarification: only Ted is on record as praying for Barry at this point.
I don’t know, but I think Janet means that the mass hysteria that much of the media is generating can lead extreme people to be convinced that police are so evil that they deserve to be killed. Now it will be the CIA.
I just read this whole blog thread. Janet’s statistic that 93% of blacks who were killed were done so by other blacks startled me. I looked it up and this is correct. Why then are people focusing so, so much on 2 black lives lost by white officers when hundreds of blacks are getting killed by other blacks? If “black lives matter” then I think there is a different problem that we should be outraged against. Not that those 2 kids aren’t important, but it seems like all of this energy, if we care about blacks, should be in a different direction. Please don’t call me names. I’m sorry those 2 blacks are dead, but I hope you see what I am trying to say.
Don’t be such a racist lassy (sarcasm). Again… as Ive said over and over, nobody wants to confront real issues… any of them. Instead a bunch of upper-class white people will take any opportunity to feel better about themselves… and then blog about it.
Violence toward anyone of any color, by any color, is deplorable. But just because additional horrible things happen does not mean that the horrible issue at hand is not an urgent problem. I have been hearing all kinds of stories from friends who are black and/or who have black children of what their experience is like with authority figures and it clear to me that the recent events in the news are not outliers, they are consistent with what black Americans face every day. That is, there is a DISCREPANCY in terms of how SOME – not all but SOME – members of law enforcement treat people of color versus how they treat white people exhibiting the same behaviors.
Evidently some of you missed it, but last August, on the 50th Anniversary of the March on Washington. many Newton residents joined hundreds of others from various communities of faith, black and white and brown, in a Memorial March for Peace from Boston to the First Baptist Church in Newton Centre, led by a group of African-American mothers who had lost their children to violence. There were many wonderful speakers and musical performers at the First Baptist Church, including the late Pete Seeger, but the focus of the event was largely on the tragic loss of so many black children to senseless violence. I was there, and, yes, they talked about how their community has suffered from black on black violence. They have lived it, and they continue to live it everyday. And yes they are outraged. Within their communities, they are devoting tremendous energy to trying to solve this problem, too. In many cases, it has been their faith in God, their families, and their communities of faith that have helped them through.
I knew when those statistics were posted that someone would want to talk about Black on Black crime.
However to do this- let’s call it by it’s real name. Crime. or Murder. or Manslaughter. B/c that is what it is. And as we I am sure can all agree on- Murder is bad and we all want less of it. No one wants crime in their neighborhood and no wants to see their loved ones murdered by anyone regardless of color or back ground.
However the police vs citizen crime and homicides are in need of discussion and protest and change is b/c if a community thinks that officers can shot their sons and loved ones for arguing back/ resisting arrest/ buying skittles/ playing with a toy gun- the community feels a direct betrayal of the system that is suppose to be there to serve and protect you. It means that in this country one community lives in a police state and the other does not. And as far as I understand it that is not cool with the US constitution. However this is how things appear to be. And let me be very clear- this.is.how.one.community.experiences.life.in.this.country. It just is. you can’t refute the experience that people are sharing over and over again. It IS.
What do we want? I keep reading this demanding question. What do I want? Fantasy world? I want a time to come where a Black man or boy dies at the hands of a police officer and I feel certain it is just a part of the messy life of law and order and that the officer in question will be investigated to trust the system and the method to the madness of Law and Order of which I am no expert. That would be fantasy world. Reality world- I would like the investigation to be independent of the police and DA system so that non biased parties can investigate the case. that would be a great start.
Finally – this ties to the ideas together- the idea of Crime and Murder and the problem of the distrust of the police within the Black community. To work on the problem of Crime and Murder within the Black community we have to ask why is there crime in a inner city rather than Newton? Not because newton are better citizens than in say Roxbury. but b/c in Newton we have more resources. We have more to loose and more investments in our surroundings. We also have trust trust and a working relationship between citizens and the police. I feel certain that if I call the police they will come to my house quickly and investigate the problem well and be helpful. When I pass a police officer in town I feel a good trustful feeling that they are here to help me and are carrying out the mission of To Serve and To protect.
However let’s talk about say Roxbury. There is a lot less resources. there is a lot less investment in the surroundings. there is less of a ability to jump into another socio economic level and thus a feeling of helplessness can arise and one can fall into people places and things which can be crime and addiction. I think we should all be aware of the idea of cycle of poverty. and there is a lot less trust of the police officers. So if an altercation comes about I may not call upon the police to help me out b/c I don’t trust that the police will actually be there for me.
So if we really want to work on the issue of Crime and Murder in inner city communities- then we as a society need to do a few things.
1. work on breaking the cycle of poverty
2. create hopefulness instead of helplessness
3. Create trust between communities and the law enforcement and have the mission of To serve and to protect shine through in roxbury just as it does in Newton.
and if we want to create trust – then people need to stop feeling like they are living in a police state.
Full circle. So working on THIS issue is a step to the other issue.
Mamavee, very well said.
Mamavee – I couldn’t take my eyes off you post. Thank you.
Thank you, Mamavee.
Lassy,
You won’t get an answer, other than the evasive one you got from Mamavee. Your question is too logical.
These folks are dreaming that they have an opportunity to romantically re-live the civil rights movement of 60 years ago, when probably most were not even yet alive. So, they latch onto anti-heroes like Mike Brown.
With the uptick in the war against the savage ISIS in Syria and Iraq, including our very own anti-war hero John Kerry asking for unlimited power for Obama, most of these people will soon try to relive the Viet Nam war protests that they also missed.
Mamavee said:”So if we really want to work on the issue of Crime and Murder in inner city communities- then we as a society need to do a few things.
1. work on breaking the cycle of poverty
2. create hopefulness instead of helplessness
3. Create trust between communities and the law enforcement and have the mission of To serve and to protect shine through in roxbury just as it does in Newton.”
I believe Mamavee left out the biggest step in cutting crime and that is to improve education in the inner city. I think crime occurs when people are desperate and don’t believe they have a future. With a better education people will be able to see a future and a way off the streets.
Tom. Most def. education! My comment was too long. So I didn’t get to that point. Can’t make em all and even a well thought out response is considered evasive. I find that laughable.
Might I clarify Norton’s comment of
… towards anyone’s race, national origin, color, creed, gender, and/or religion
There is much deplorable behavior going on in this world today in the name of religion. I am concerned that here in the US we hide it this activity by cleansing the language used in government. Similar to the National Socialist Party of Germany in the 1930’s.
Equally deplorable, IMO.
mamavee:
Agreed.
Mamavee – Nothing evasive about your post. It was absolutely on the mark and why hundreds of people showed up on Sunday on 3 days notice to march.
Godwin’s Law. Boom, done.
Please forgive me because I am still trying to learn. Thank you, Barry, for trying to understand my question. I researched Janet’s post about 93 % of blacks being killed by other blacks. From what I could tell, this has been happening since the 80s. Here it is, 2014, and 2 black people are killed by white police officers in the course of an arrest, and yet since the 80s, hundreds of black kids are being killed every year by other blacks. Yet, these protests have arisen over two black kids. Where are the protests over the hundreds of black kids killed by black on black crime? And I mean major, media worthy protests. Mamavee, you say we need resources, but if we have resources to put body cameras on police officers, which is what Obama wants in reaction to 2 black kids being killed, shouldn’t these protests and uprisings have happened long ago in response to blacks killing other blacks? If we can afford body cameras to save 2 kids, we could afford more neighborhood officers, more kid centers, more intervention etc. All of this seems misplaced to me – but I’m open to being educated.
Heres another example of me whitesplaining what the real problem is in this country. Google David Hook killed by police. A grandfather whose house was raided during a no-knock warrant served for drugs based off the word of the guy who stole his car and claimed the meth the cops found belonged to the owner of the stolen car. Shot in the head and killed. Nothing found in his house.
But please, continue to say the issue is how people of color are treated (who are actually often targets of these no-knock warrants) and that is the only thing that wilk make you upset. Not surprisingly the mainstream media ignorea cases of police brutality and extremism if there isnt an opportunity for race baiting.
Mike (not Striar) et al., why can’t both things be true? By arguing that the real issue is police brutality without acknowledging the use of excessive force and bias toward people of color you are creating a false dichotomy which serves only to divide. Why is it so important to deny that race is an issue, too? Because if we can agree on the problems, it makes it easier to move forward with the proven solutions, which in both cases require appropriate training and accountability.
You know, we can’t get off the kick of blaming white people for everything, can we? But I want to make a couple of points.
(1) There are a lot of black and mixed communities of all economic levels all over the US. How many experience none or very few of these issues? I’m guessing most.
(2) Of the communities that do experience this, what are the black crime rates?
(3) Given the high rate of crime, especially violent crime, in certain communities where clearly a lot of weapons are in the possession of the criminals, with a lot being firearms, would you be leery and cautious about how you patrol, investigate crimes, or handle suspects if you were a cop in these areas? Perhaps the black female sergeant responsible for Eric Garner situation understood this.
It’s easy for the armchair judges in Newton to second-guess what goes on in high crime neighborhoods, or during certain apprehensions, but the police who work these very dangerous neighborhoods, including a lot of minority police, are risking their lives every day, on behalf of civilized society, in dealing with irrational, drugged, violence-prone people, who pose an unknown risk to them, many of whom have long records already and don’t want to be apprehended.
There’s a logic to the term “limousine liberals”. Sit in your comfortable homes in low-crime neighborhoods and attack the very people without whom our society might be a crime-filled anarchy.
Barry, I find it disappointing, ironic, yet predictable that Heywood, Crowley and the rest of their ilk refuse to acknowledge what happened to Zemir Bejics. http://gotnews.com/breaking-exclusive-instagram-photos-zemir-bejics-killer/
I find it disappointing that nobody has answered my question. All of these protests have resulted in Pres Obama wanting body cameras for all police officers. Why haven’t there been protests, on this level, about all of the black on black killings. Because if there were, perhaps 100s of black kids could have been saved with more after-school programs, more police officers in those neighborhoods, maybe special programs that help black kids who want to be police officers, more safe centers to hang out in etc. If we have money for body cameras, we had and have money for these things – if the protesters were there. Seems the black on black killings is a way bigger problem.
While I don’t oppose cameras on police, suggesting that that fixes the problem is ridiculous. Jose Guerena’s murder was caught on tape but that doesn’t change the fact that no cops were charged and judges continue to issue no-knock warrants over drugs, and often in cases with poor evidence.
The reason I am playing down the issue of race Ted, is because it distracts from the real issue. While SOME OF THE TIME race is an issue, in the most recent instances, there is little evidence to suggest that is the case. Mike Brown may have gotten what he deserved, but its a farcry to say it was because he is black. It was because he robbed a convenience store and started punching a police officer. Eric Garner DID NOT deserve his fate, but again it wasn’t because he was black, it was because ridiculous laws exist that allow for that to happen in the first place.
Ted, I am not refusing to acknowledge race ever plays a role, but I must have missed the rally you were part of against the war on drugs, or no-knock warrants. These are the root issues, that sometimes may be abused when it comes to race, but don’t fit the white guilt narrative so they don’t get attention, from the media or people like the posters in this thread.
Mike
Lassie – Maybe it’s because it came across as a “loaded question”. I’d suggest that you rephrase or rethink it so that you invite dialogue.
Jane, I don’t know what you mean by that but please tell me how I can rephrase or rethink and I’d be happy to. Or, if you feel you can, please go ahead and ask the question yourself in the way you think is better, thanks.
Lassy. I answered your question. Just because you didn’t like my
Answer doesn’t mean I didnt. It seems the idea of Crime is shockingly new to you. I assure you it is not a new conundrum. If you have spent any time in the inner city community you would know about all of the grassroot efforts that are made to end crime and addiction and hopelessness and poverty. Since you are so interested in an answer I suspect you will be working toward ending poverty and getting involved. That would be the answer. Be g
Brother big sister. Mentoring. Etc etc. bc
That is the answer to your question. Or are you simply intent on telling us where our priorities lie?
I think that we need to do something about all of these white-on-white killings. More than 85 percent of whites are killed by someone from their own race! Maybe if we were to send some black police officers into these white neighborhoods we could get the white people to stop killing themselves.
Also, there are a lot of redneck towns that voted Republican in the last election, where everybody is packing heat. In Milford, for example, you can get a license to carry a concealed weapon simply by filling out some paperwork. In nutso, loserville communities like that, we all need to support sending in some African-American police officers with zero-BS-tolerance who are willing to shoot first and ask questions later.
Lassy- I have different questions about these events than you do. For what it’s worth, the article about tens of thousands of people protesting in cities across the nation was on page 23 of the Sunday New York Times, with a small photo below the fold on page 1.
Now Michael… Id like to assume thats sarcasm. 90ish % of municipalities in MA will grant an unrestricted license assuming the applicant isnt statutorily disqualified. While Newton has made steps in the right direction they still place restrictions on a license for the first year, which is unfortunate. Furthermore, state law requires applicants to pass a background check and complete a state police approved safety course. But then again I presume you aren’t seriously suggesting that lawfully armed citizens be summarily executed by the police.
Sarcasms hard to read on a blog…
Mike
OK, it is kind of mean to say I didn’t like your answer so I didn’t think you answered my question. I honestly didn’t see it answered but I’m happy to re-read. To me, it just makes sense to “rally the troops” over the bigger issue, but I’m not trying to be sarcastic or asking loaded questions (still not sure what that means, but anyway) Yes, I do try to help – I volunteer 2 days a week at an elementary school in Roxbury, I volunteer at a hospital on another day and I volunteer doing ESL help on the 4th day. I don’t know a lot about crime because I lived most of my life in a rural farm town and now live in Newton. But I’m trying, but I get mean answers back. I’m not telling anyone where their priorities lie. I’m just saying my own opinion is I would try to get front page news and the attention of our leaders over the problem of black on black crime, because I feel terrible after learning that. But I respect that people think differently. I was just asking what the reasoning was. I’ll go back and look for your answer. I think I’m too old to be a big sister.
Mike – thanks for that valuable info. If I ever become a brainless coward who wants to feel more powerful than I really am, then I’ll certainly move to one of the redneck communities that grant gun licenses without a waiting period. I’m sure that those are all communities where schools are well-funded and municipal services are excellent.
As for my proposal that we send African-American police officers into white suburban towns with high rates of concealed weapon licensure such as Milford, as Barry Cohen says, these police officers would need to be leery of how they patrol and deal with suspects in these areas. I’m not prejudiced, but any honest conversation needs to acknowledge that a lot of the people in these towns cheat on their taxes and many of them use marijuana, which is illegal without medical authorization. I’ve driven through some of those towns, and many of the people there break the law by speeding on highways, too. I am not saying that these people deserve to get shot by trigger-happy cops, but if it happens, then at least we aren’t killing innocents.
I just did some calculations, and white people who were either speeding or operating under the influence killed more than 15,000 innocent people nationwide last year.
I say enough is enough! We need to start sending HEAVILY WEAPONIZED non-white police officers onto America’s highways. Officers who aren’t afraid to ask, “Do you feel lucky?”
It’s easy enough for us bicycle and Green Line riders inside 128 to say it’s not our problem, but it affects all of us.
@Lassy,
I think the brief answer to your question is that the issue of black on black civilian crime is not the same issue as government sanctioned police action that results in the death of unarmed people of color.
The licensing procedure is the same statewide. All municipalities require one to wait up to 40 days for a license in order for applications to be processed. I know plenty of newtonians with LTCs, indeed I’ve taught some of them the safety course so they could obtain their license. I guess Im a coward as I sit here with my Glock19… as are all the students I have taught, most of whom are either college students or young parents.
As I mentioned, 90% of towns issue unrestricted licenses without a fight. Some of those redneck communities include hillbilly places such as Weston. After the passage of the new law it is expected that almost all will stop placing restrictions on licenses since they will need to be justified in writing and hold up in a court hearing.
Lisap,
What you said is what people here seem to believe
“government sanctioned police action that results in the death of unarmed people of color.”
Now, to my knowledge, we fortunately don’t have a gestapo or a stasi here. Police are trained, yes, to use force and weapons, because they are often confronted with force and/or weapons. If you think that the government is sending police out to kill black people or to devalue their lives to the point where they don’t matter if they accidentally kill them, you need to have more to go on than that bully Michael Brown or an Eric Garner who had medical problems.
This is a serious accusation, and you are, I thought, too smart to say this without support. So, how do you prove a reckless accusation like this? Surely not with a few statistics on how many people die, because we don’t know the circumstances under which most died. Thousands of people die in wars, but do we accuse the soldiers of being murderers? You need to show how their training leads to what you said.
Thanks, LisaP. That makes sense. Although I do think the black on black crime is a fixable problem, and hope that one day this level of protest and uprising focuses on that. I always hear the problem of money but if we have the money for body cameras, we have the money to help this problem, but there has to be those attention-getting protests. Also, I wanted to add something. Mamavee asked if I knew anything about poverty. I lived most of my life outside of New England, there were lots of farms and also whole communities of people who lived in motor homes. There was poverty, but not all of the killing, so there has to be something else going on there.
Except the government is, in a way, sending police out to kill all sorts of people… or at least thats what happens. No-knock warrants served on the basis of moral crusades get people killed, plain and simple. These should be reserved for instances where human life is in immediate danger, not accusations of drug possession. If something can be flushed down the toilet, it’s not worth killing people over.
Furthermore, individual officers should bear liability for mistakes made when these warrants are served. From the command on down charges should be filed when the wrong houses are entered at the very least.
This is less a race issue than a policy issue.
@Barry,
I think that you are reading far more into my response than I either wrote or intended to communicate. Yes the CDC has published statistics that analyze the population by demographics and then further tease out the statistical incidence of death by unlawful action and also by police action, etc, etc. and extrapolate from that the relative rate of death by each category. N.B.: I really did not intend to get into a sociological debate about the validity of those statistics. They exist. I’ve read them. I could address them but I choose not to. The argument has been raised though, why aren’t people protesting or addressing violence against members of the community perpetrated by other members of the community. I think it is a fair answer to say that these are entirely different issues, and that questions which relate to whether there is a disproportionate use of lethal force by government actors against minority community members (and please note I am not advocating any position on this) — which action is taken on behalf of the government and cloaked in governmental authority, is a far different issue than the incidence of violence within the community. One issue speaks to government conduct, while the other speaks to societal ills. Each asks questions that are worthy of analysis, but they ought to be addressed separately.
@Barry – a quick follow up. Having re-read your comment I think you’re mostly taking issue with the words “government sanctioned”. I’m using those words trying to differentiate that this is action carried out in the line of duty as opposed to action by a rogue actor. I’m not suggesting at all that police departments send officers out on missions to kill minorities. My point was to try to clearly differentiate the government actor from the civilian actor.
Lisap,
I agree with what you are saying. They are clearly different.
I think what’s bothering Lassy is the nation-wide uproar that this has generated, in spite of the more serious problems facing probably the same communities as where police force is more prevalent.
It bothers me, because it creates more racial division, and in the extreme, allows hoodlums to commit the crimes of arson, theft and destruction with no punishment, where they would be prosecuted if they did it as individuals. Mass demonstrations kind of frighten me because they give people extra courage to do these things.
If anyone has the open-mindedness to watch this, it’s another form of tearing down a government system in the name of an extreme view of justice. This reminds me of the protests over Ferguson.
http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/englishwoman-gives-an-up-close-look-at-what-happens-when-muslims-take-over-a-city/?omhide=true&utm_source=MadMimi&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Breaking+News+Video%3A+New+Video+Sheds+Light+on+What+is+Really+Going+on+in+The+Golan+Heights&utm_campaign=20141218_m123635166_12%2F18+Breaking+News+Video%3A+New+Video+Sheds+Light+on+What+is+Really+Going+on+in+The+Golan+Heights&utm_term=islam-UK_png_3F1418892640
I have already watched this video and was floored. Luton (England) is the home of Anjem Choudary who is an instigator of much uprising against the British government and other entities in the name of Islam (the religion of peace). She did a wonderful job in this video.
Two NYC policemen were executed today by a guy named Ismayyil.
Referred to Garner and Brown in a post.
Keep demonstrating against the police, folks.
No comment, Janet.
Isn’t Ted going to tell us how proud he is of the protest marches?
Barry, The guy killed his girlfriend in New Jersey and was on the run. It wasn’t about protests. I think crowing about how right you are takes away from the NYPD deaths. It’s tragic. A NYPD cop hasn’t lost his life in the line of duty since 2011. It’s about them. It’s not about you.
Martin,
Have you seen his Instagram posts?
It!s not about ME!
Sorry to not fit your dogma.
Keep flattering yourself about your stupid protests.
@Barry,
Did you mean this?
https://twitter.com/margarita/status/546472455133741056/photo/1
That’s it Janet. This was a post I did a week and a half ago on this blog
——————
Barry Cohen
December 11, 2014 10:06 AM
I don’t know, but I think Janet means that the mass hysteria that much of the media is generating can lead extreme people to be convinced that police are so evil that they deserve to be killed.
——————
That was after a Marti post criticizing me.
——————
Marti
December 10, 2014 03:58 PM
Barry, I know no one posting here will have any effect on what you think and so do you. This is not an exchange of constructive, credible, ideas looking for common ground. You are being a name calling troll who posts bigoted tirades proclaiming your opinions as facts and being indulged. Stop it.
—————————-
Geez, Marti. By the way, he shot his girlfriend in Baltimore. And, he wasn’t ‘on the run”. He set out to kill two police officers according to his post.
Lovely aftermath of our so-called pluralistic tolerant society (at a major learning institution, much less). Student Leader: ‘No Sympathy’ for Executed NYPD Officers
Student Leader: ‘No Sympathy’ for Executed NYPD Officers
http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/student-leader-no-sympathy-executed-nypd-officers
She probably participated in the glorious Newton protest.