Washington Post education reporter Valerie Strauss, who broke the story about Catholic Memorial School fans’ anti-semitic chant, published this update on Sunday.  Here’s two excerpts..
Parents of Catholic Memorial students said Sunday that they heard Newton North High School fans shouting homophobic slurs during the Friday night game, something they said is not uncommon for the all-boys school to endure during sporting events…
Risa King, a Catholic Memorial parent, said she heard anti-gay chants coming from the Newton side. “This is nothing new,” she said in an e-mail. “At every game our boys get taunted like this by most schools that we play. … We’ve just never complained before.” Other Catholic Memorial parents and supporters also reported hearing similar homophobic shouts.
RELATED: Globe article outlines plans by both schools.
Seriously, folks – this stuff has been going on for years – I remember similar (although less brazen) chants back and forth when I went to BC High some 45 years ago – it’s groups of knucklehead teenagers trying to one-up each other to see who can be more outrageous and offensive than the other – why not? that’s what our presidential candidates do – and, btw, a fair amount of the responsibility for all of this falls on the parents who raised these kids – just sayin
No, it’s different. It was a childish back and forth until the use of a slur used for centuries to murder millions. That crosses a line. Even if it was just poor judgement or a rivalry that got out of hand, it revealed anti-semitic thought that should not be ignored. Hopefully this will be used as a teaching moment not just for the kids, but for the parents and anyone else who doesn’t see why this is a problem. I hope the ADL rises to the occasion.
Seriously, folks – this stuff has been going on for years – I remember similar (although less brazen) chants back and forth when I went to BC High some 45 years ago – it’s groups of knucklehead teenagers trying to one-up each other to see who can be more outrageous and offensive than the other – why not? that’s what our presidential candidates do – and, btw, a fair amount of the responsibility for all of this falls on the parents who raised these kids – just sayin
No, it’s different. It was a childish back and forth until the use of a slur used for centuries to murder millions. That crosses a line. Even if it was just poor judgement or a rivalry that got out of hand, it revealed anti-semitic thought that should not be ignored. Hopefully this will be used as a teaching moment not just for the kids, but for the parents and anyone else who doesn’t see why this is a problem. I hope the ADL rises to the occasion.
The MIAA needs to step in and make a rule that bans fans from making derogatory chants about the opposing team. Instead of taking a “kids will be kids” attitude, let’s teach our teens that it’s great to support your team and you can do that by chanting positive things rather than attacking the opponents.
The MIAA needs to step in and make a rule that bans fans from making derogatory chants about the opposing team. Instead of taking a “kids will be kids” attitude, let’s teach our teens that it’s great to support your team and you can do that by chanting positive things rather than attacking the opponents.
Both are bad, and while I don’t want to say either one is better . . . . the shouts from CM were awful . . . . I had hoped that falsehood died a long time ago, that Jewish people killed Jesus. . . . and while it might not be taught these kids heard it from SOMEWHERE.
I believe all fans should respect each other . . . . rooting your team does mean hurling insults at the other team. This goes from the Patriots and Red Sox, to college, to high school and elementary. And we are the adults and we need to be good role models.
The fans for Newton North shouted awful things, and I hope there is alot of education not just in Newton and CM, but at all local schools.
I was at the Temple Emanuel event on Thursday night with my 14 year old son. The whole talk from the Cardinal really interested my son, and even though we have our differences, we still are all humans, and the need for respect. He hears this from his parents, and his school, but to hear a man tell an audience that we all need to respect each other resonated with him.
And then within 24 hours, we were back talking about Day Middle School and the basketball game. I don’t recall a time, as a Jewish person, I ever felt so much hate at being Jewish. I remember some grafitti, but not three times in one year. . . . and I remember the penny roll to the Jewish person . . . but I have not witnessed hearing Jews Killed Jesus in a group event ever. We talked to him about what to do if you were at the game. . . . and how to behave as a fan, both of your school and while traveling with your team.
I still have hope for the future, but we have a long way to go.
Both are bad, and while I don’t want to say either one is better . . . . the shouts from CM were awful . . . . I had hoped that falsehood died a long time ago, that Jewish people killed Jesus. . . . and while it might not be taught these kids heard it from SOMEWHERE.
I believe all fans should respect each other . . . . rooting your team does mean hurling insults at the other team. This goes from the Patriots and Red Sox, to college, to high school and elementary. And we are the adults and we need to be good role models.
The fans for Newton North shouted awful things, and I hope there is alot of education not just in Newton and CM, but at all local schools.
I was at the Temple Emanuel event on Thursday night with my 14 year old son. The whole talk from the Cardinal really interested my son, and even though we have our differences, we still are all humans, and the need for respect. He hears this from his parents, and his school, but to hear a man tell an audience that we all need to respect each other resonated with him.
And then within 24 hours, we were back talking about Day Middle School and the basketball game. I don’t recall a time, as a Jewish person, I ever felt so much hate at being Jewish. I remember some grafitti, but not three times in one year. . . . and I remember the penny roll to the Jewish person . . . but I have not witnessed hearing Jews Killed Jesus in a group event ever. We talked to him about what to do if you were at the game. . . . and how to behave as a fan, both of your school and while traveling with your team.
I still have hope for the future, but we have a long way to go.
MGWA — I will sign that letter!!!!!! Be positive for your team.
MGWA — I will sign that letter!!!!!! Be positive for your team.
I agree that the MIAA should address the issue of taunting by fans–students and parents. MIAA’s rules about celebrating are pretty strict.
I agree that the MIAA should address the issue of taunting by fans–students and parents. MIAA’s rules about celebrating are pretty strict.
If our boys were the ones chanting, say anticatholic or racist slogans, I would like to think we as a community would not react by saying “they started it” and pretending the other chants were something more sinister than they were. It’s disingenuous. I am certain at this point that Aronson is talking to the students about how the sausage-fest chants might be received (vs intent), which is fine, but seriously, “CM parents,” take some responsibility as Christians for your students’ actions. Enough of this.
Today’s Globe story suggests that both schools are taking this seriously and have put together plans to make this a teachable moment.
If our boys were the ones chanting, say anticatholic or racist slogans, I would like to think we as a community would not react by saying “they started it” and pretending the other chants were something more sinister than they were. It’s disingenuous. I am certain at this point that Aronson is talking to the students about how the sausage-fest chants might be received (vs intent), which is fine, but seriously, “CM parents,” take some responsibility as Christians for your students’ actions. Enough of this.
Today’s Globe story suggests that both schools are taking this seriously and have put together plans to make this a teachable moment.
@Doug – I don’t see anywhere that the CM school administration has shirked responsibility. They have done all the right things and not made any excuses.
And while I don’t like the “they started it” reaction, it does sound like taunts at CM are a long-standing problem (the parents made clear that it wasn’t just Newton who did this), and need to be addressed.
@Doug – I don’t see anywhere that the CM school administration has shirked responsibility. They have done all the right things and not made any excuses.
And while I don’t like the “they started it” reaction, it does sound like taunts at CM are a long-standing problem (the parents made clear that it wasn’t just Newton who did this), and need to be addressed.
Was “Sausage Fest” at all a reference to the priest pedophilia scandal? It seems an uncomfortable chant to shout at Catholic boys.
Was “Sausage Fest” at all a reference to the priest pedophilia scandal? It seems an uncomfortable chant to shout at Catholic boys.
“Sausage Fest” means an environment that has an absence of girls and women.
No more, no less.
I first heard the phrase a couple of years ago in this 30 second clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK-Vv75jvqQ
“Sausage Fest” means an environment that has an absence of girls and women.
No more, no less.
I first heard the phrase a couple of years ago in this 30 second clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK-Vv75jvqQ
mgwa- I didn’t suggest (or mean to) that that schools were shirking- quite the opposite (aside from one sentence in the official statement which IMO was not necessary). It appears the “They started it” bs is coming from some parents (tho I don’t even know that)
mgwa- I didn’t suggest (or mean to) that that schools were shirking- quite the opposite (aside from one sentence in the official statement which IMO was not necessary). It appears the “They started it” bs is coming from some parents (tho I don’t even know that)
Interpretations do not always reside untouched in amber. They can grow, multiply and change over time, distance and circumstances. That may not be the case with “You killed Christ,” certainly, but the idea that “sausage fest,” especially combined with “Where’s your girls?” could never be regarded as some sort of dig against sexual orientation is rather disingenuous. To me, it’s reminiscent of the phrase “that’s so gay” which middle-schoolers and high-schoolers used to (or still do?) utter in disparagement — reducing sexual orientation to some kind of sneering epithet. Does that excuse the “You killed Christ” response? Absolutely not. And good for CM to respond as it has. But given the sensitivities in the Catholic community in the wake of the clergy sexual abuse scandal, a little soul-searching on the part of the Newton North kids will be a good idea.
Interpretations do not always reside untouched in amber. They can grow, multiply and change over time, distance and circumstances. That may not be the case with “You killed Christ,” certainly, but the idea that “sausage fest,” especially combined with “Where’s your girls?” could never be regarded as some sort of dig against sexual orientation is rather disingenuous. To me, it’s reminiscent of the phrase “that’s so gay” which middle-schoolers and high-schoolers used to (or still do?) utter in disparagement — reducing sexual orientation to some kind of sneering epithet. Does that excuse the “You killed Christ” response? Absolutely not. And good for CM to respond as it has. But given the sensitivities in the Catholic community in the wake of the clergy sexual abuse scandal, a little soul-searching on the part of the Newton North kids will be a good idea.
I have heard the term “sausage fest” before and understood it to mean a party or gathering that comprised of mostly men. However, I am not a teenager so I decided to ask a few. Here is what I got:
A senior at Nobles & Greenough who is very active in her LGBT group at school and identifies as “Q” which I am told means “Questioning” –> “Sausage Fest just means a bunch of guys, like a bunch of wieners. I am involved in gay groups and can tell you it’s not directed at gays.”
A senior at Roxbury Latin – “it’s meant to make fun at all boys’ schools since we all have a sausage but I never took it as gay.”
A junior at Maimonides – “I never heard of it.”
I have heard the term “sausage fest” before and understood it to mean a party or gathering that comprised of mostly men. However, I am not a teenager so I decided to ask a few. Here is what I got:
A senior at Nobles & Greenough who is very active in her LGBT group at school and identifies as “Q” which I am told means “Questioning” –> “Sausage Fest just means a bunch of guys, like a bunch of wieners. I am involved in gay groups and can tell you it’s not directed at gays.”
A senior at Roxbury Latin – “it’s meant to make fun at all boys’ schools since we all have a sausage but I never took it as gay.”
A junior at Maimonides – “I never heard of it.”
Rachel G. — that’s good enterprise on your part. Now, however, the teens you spoke to (and hopefully others) will know that some may interpret the phrase differently, and therefore hopefully will think about the context and circumstances in which they use it. Not a bad thing.
Rachel G. — that’s good enterprise on your part. Now, however, the teens you spoke to (and hopefully others) will know that some may interpret the phrase differently, and therefore hopefully will think about the context and circumstances in which they use it. Not a bad thing.
We all know that sausage fest is used harmlessly to mean a group of guys as in “this is such a sausage fest, we should call some girls.”
At the ball game the term could be used just to describe either boys basketball team but that is not the context in which it was used. It was used as a derisive chant to an all boys school – the question is why?
If it only has a harmless meaning, why would it be used as a “put down.” To say, “you are a school of boys who hang around with each other” is not an insult but these fans are shouting it as an insult and it seems the students at the boys school are hearing it as an insult. There has to be a reason. I think it is irresponsible as a parent to continue to assert that the Newton fans did nothing offensive. I am very glad our NPS administration doesn’t think the same way and is addressing the situation.
I know the hateful, anti-Semitic shouts are far more offensive. I wonder if the boys knew how terribly wrong and threatening that expression is or knew the reason behind it. I say this only because CM is changing their curriculum. I do wonder at punishing the entire school and the basketball team, who will play without their fans.
And if the news stories are to be believed, from the start it was said that the chanting was started by the Newton fans. While that doesn’t take away from how offensive the horrendous chants by the CM fans were, it does entitle them to say “they started it” – “it” meaning the chanting.
I’ve been to many young people’s sporting events as both of my children were on their high school sports teams and now my grandson is on his school’s soccer team. Even at intense rivalry events and State finals, where spirits run high, I have never heard any offensive behavior allowed. All of it needs to stop.
We all know that sausage fest is used harmlessly to mean a group of guys as in “this is such a sausage fest, we should call some girls.”
At the ball game the term could be used just to describe either boys basketball team but that is not the context in which it was used. It was used as a derisive chant to an all boys school – the question is why?
If it only has a harmless meaning, why would it be used as a “put down.” To say, “you are a school of boys who hang around with each other” is not an insult but these fans are shouting it as an insult and it seems the students at the boys school are hearing it as an insult. There has to be a reason. I think it is irresponsible as a parent to continue to assert that the Newton fans did nothing offensive. I am very glad our NPS administration doesn’t think the same way and is addressing the situation.
I know the hateful, anti-Semitic shouts are far more offensive. I wonder if the boys knew how terribly wrong and threatening that expression is or knew the reason behind it. I say this only because CM is changing their curriculum. I do wonder at punishing the entire school and the basketball team, who will play without their fans.
And if the news stories are to be believed, from the start it was said that the chanting was started by the Newton fans. While that doesn’t take away from how offensive the horrendous chants by the CM fans were, it does entitle them to say “they started it” – “it” meaning the chanting.
I’ve been to many young people’s sporting events as both of my children were on their high school sports teams and now my grandson is on his school’s soccer team. Even at intense rivalry events and State finals, where spirits run high, I have never heard any offensive behavior allowed. All of it needs to stop.
Not to turn this into a sociological/anthropological exercise, but it can be interesting to consider how a certain phrase can be considered insulting, especially in the context of a school sporting event. While talking about the CM-Newton North controversy this weekend, my wife and I reminisced about the cheers and chants we heard back in high school.
I went to a high school located in a small city (population approx. 8,000) that was surrounded by mainly countryside and farmland. Some of the teams we played were in rural towns, and in these games one familiar chant on our side was “Go back! Go back! Go back into the woods!” The implication was that their players were all farmers and hicks, while we were the cool, urban kids (yeah, in a city of 8,000).
My wife went to a high school that was in a very rural setting, as were most of the teams her school played. Yet she remembered the “Go back into the woods” chant being pretty common, too, even though there was little apparent difference between the communities these schools represented.
I’m trying to decide in which of these two scenarios would “Go back into the woods” be considered a greater insult.
Not to turn this into a sociological/anthropological exercise, but it can be interesting to consider how a certain phrase can be considered insulting, especially in the context of a school sporting event. While talking about the CM-Newton North controversy this weekend, my wife and I reminisced about the cheers and chants we heard back in high school.
I went to a high school located in a small city (population approx. 8,000) that was surrounded by mainly countryside and farmland. Some of the teams we played were in rural towns, and in these games one familiar chant on our side was “Go back! Go back! Go back into the woods!” The implication was that their players were all farmers and hicks, while we were the cool, urban kids (yeah, in a city of 8,000).
My wife went to a high school that was in a very rural setting, as were most of the teams her school played. Yet she remembered the “Go back into the woods” chant being pretty common, too, even though there was little apparent difference between the communities these schools represented.
I’m trying to decide in which of these two scenarios would “Go back into the woods” be considered a greater insult.
I first heard about this incident while attending a robotics competition. The students there are of the same age as those playing in the basketball game and attend the same high school. They’re classmates.
No one in that environment ever thought about taunting anyone. Ever.
It’s simply not done, it’s not built into the culture of the competition. Now we can say all we want that it’s about CM kids or NNHS kids or whatever, but what I hear from parents is that the taunting is just “something that happens at games.” I’ve heard reports that last year some of the taunts were racist in nature.
Yes, there is an issue with what was said. But the main issue is that the taunts are PART of the culture. They shouldn’t be. We accept it because in this society as it is today, we have an “if I’m right then you’re wrong” view on everything. This isn’t just about sports (we’ve all heard the chants at Sox games) but it also happens here on this blog. It happened with the Austin St. discussion and I’m sure it’ll happen with Orr.
Being on opposites sides of an argument doesn’t mean you need to entirely disrespect the “competition.” Today you compete, tomorrow you cooperate. Let’s think that way.
I first heard about this incident while attending a robotics competition. The students there are of the same age as those playing in the basketball game and attend the same high school. They’re classmates.
No one in that environment ever thought about taunting anyone. Ever.
It’s simply not done, it’s not built into the culture of the competition. Now we can say all we want that it’s about CM kids or NNHS kids or whatever, but what I hear from parents is that the taunting is just “something that happens at games.” I’ve heard reports that last year some of the taunts were racist in nature.
Yes, there is an issue with what was said. But the main issue is that the taunts are PART of the culture. They shouldn’t be. We accept it because in this society as it is today, we have an “if I’m right then you’re wrong” view on everything. This isn’t just about sports (we’ve all heard the chants at Sox games) but it also happens here on this blog. It happened with the Austin St. discussion and I’m sure it’ll happen with Orr.
Being on opposites sides of an argument doesn’t mean you need to entirely disrespect the “competition.” Today you compete, tomorrow you cooperate. Let’s think that way.
Are people really trying to downplay what the Newton kids mean when they directed the term “sausage fest” at CM? Really?
Maybe we need to be ready to judge our own few bad seeds the same way we judge another’s few bad seeds.
Own it NIMBYs.
Are people really trying to downplay what the Newton kids mean when they directed the term “sausage fest” at CM? Really?
Maybe we need to be ready to judge our own few bad seeds the same way we judge another’s few bad seeds.
Own it NIMBYs.
Chuck, those are very admirable sentiments, especially “Today you compete, tomorrow you cooperate.” I do think — or wish might be the better word — there can be a place for good-natured (emphasis there) ribbing and jousting in the spirit of competition, whether one is participating or observing. It’s healthy to let off steam and to have a battle of wits and words, especially in this day and age where we have to be so bloody serious about everything, especially our politics.
I’m not going to do the blame-political-correctness game here, though. For the joking to accomplish what we want it to, both “sides” have to know what the limits of humor are and work within those — and to do that, it helps to have at least some sense of whom you’re joking with. I know of people with strong, polar-opposite views, whether it’s Red Sox-vs.-Yankees or Democrat-vs.-Republican, who can needle each other all the time but don’t need a referee to tell them when they’ve committed a foul. Unfortunately, I think those kinds of relationships seem to be fewer and far between nowadays.
I’m not going to pretend that all the chanting/taunting I witnessed in high school sports when I was a kid (back in the Pleistocene Era) was harmless or in the spirit of fun — hell, some kids once threw a bunch of dog biscuits in front of the other team’s cheerleaders — but I think, for the most part, everyone had fun when the ribbing was based on things both sides could accept as reasonable. If you don’t know, or worse don’t care, what those are, then you have an incident like this past weekend.
Chuck, those are very admirable sentiments, especially “Today you compete, tomorrow you cooperate.” I do think — or wish might be the better word — there can be a place for good-natured (emphasis there) ribbing and jousting in the spirit of competition, whether one is participating or observing. It’s healthy to let off steam and to have a battle of wits and words, especially in this day and age where we have to be so bloody serious about everything, especially our politics.
I’m not going to do the blame-political-correctness game here, though. For the joking to accomplish what we want it to, both “sides” have to know what the limits of humor are and work within those — and to do that, it helps to have at least some sense of whom you’re joking with. I know of people with strong, polar-opposite views, whether it’s Red Sox-vs.-Yankees or Democrat-vs.-Republican, who can needle each other all the time but don’t need a referee to tell them when they’ve committed a foul. Unfortunately, I think those kinds of relationships seem to be fewer and far between nowadays.
I’m not going to pretend that all the chanting/taunting I witnessed in high school sports when I was a kid (back in the Pleistocene Era) was harmless or in the spirit of fun — hell, some kids once threw a bunch of dog biscuits in front of the other team’s cheerleaders — but I think, for the most part, everyone had fun when the ribbing was based on things both sides could accept as reasonable. If you don’t know, or worse don’t care, what those are, then you have an incident like this past weekend.
As Chuck points out we are becoming a more vertical culture – for me to be right, you must be wrong; for me to be up, you must be down; for my school to be good, yours must be bad; for me to be rich, you must be poor. None of it is true of course, but it’s a prevalent way of thinking.
As Chuck points out we are becoming a more vertical culture – for me to be right, you must be wrong; for me to be up, you must be down; for my school to be good, yours must be bad; for me to be rich, you must be poor. None of it is true of course, but it’s a prevalent way of thinking.
Martibowen — life in the Age of Zero Sum Game.
Martibowen — life in the Age of Zero Sum Game.