Do you know the grading distribution in Newton’s high schools? Scores of parents have told me that their high schoolers have become straight A students. If our kids are getting smarter or learning more, this is great news. Unfortunately, a public records request produced an analysis of grades that tells another story. The Fall 2021 distribution of letter grades (disregarding, for example, pass, not pass and withdraws), reveals that A’s were awarded 58.4% of the time, while A’s or A minuses were given 73.2% of the time. In comparison, my college class syllabus spells out that there will be 25-35% A’s, 50-70% B’s, and 5-15% C’s.
The memo explains that a new grading system was adopted to “decrease the inequitable impact of the pandemic on student subgroups… and to address the longstanding disproportionality of A and B grade distribution amongst student subgroups in our schools.”
Readers can decide for themselves whether reducing disproportionality in grades should be a district-wide goal. I think NPS is putting the cart before the horse. The goal should be to reduce disproportionality in learning, which in turn, would reduce disproportionality in grades. Evidence from MCAS scores tells us that we are failing disadvantaged groups. Inflating grades does a disservice to families who are duped into believing that their children are learning.
Even if we throw my criticism aside, the NPS grade inflation project still failed to reduce disproportionalities. In fact, it made grade disproportionalities worse! The report shows that since 2018, 4 out of 5 subgroups experienced greater grade disproportionalities. In light of this, why doesn’t NPS scuttle the project?
Grades are not cosmetic. Many students are transactional. Grades motivate them to finish homework and study, which results in learning. All four of the referenced studies below show that high grades diminish student learning. Grades also communicate performance to parents. A parent who sees a C on a report card is motivated to be involved in remediation. A parent who sees an A or A minus and does not realize that their child might be near the bottom 25% of the class, is likely to do nothing. High grading sets the stage for an uncomfortable college admissions process when straight A students discover that their grades won’t set them apart.
The memo promises to “Continue to solicit feedback from… families regarding the clarity of the grading process.” In light of this, I filed a public records request to obtain documents that recorded feedback from families. The NPS replied, “NPS has not yet gathered feedback from families regarding high school grading.”
References
Elikai and Schuhmann, 2010, An Examination of the Impact of Grading Policies on Students’ Achievement, Issues in Accounting Education.
Figlio and Lucas, 2004, Do high grading standards affect student performance? Journal of Public Economics
Gershenson, Seth, 2020, Great Expectations: The Impact of Rigorous Grading Practices on Student Achievement. Washington, DC: Thomas B. Fordham Institute.
Insler, McQuoid, Rahman, and Smith, 2022, Fear and Loathing in the Classroom: Why Does Teacher Quality Matter?, U.S Naval Academy working paper.
When will people realize that equity means opportunity, not result? Once again the fakequity police strike again.
Getting fake As in high school probably wont help you succeed in college, but what do I know. Personally, i prefer kids earn what they get, and aren’t given a participation trophy.
Hey Newton Beacon, can we cover the new, fake, non-achievement based grading system in your new paper? Seems like a good topic, no?
Can this be questioned without being accused as racist?
Unsure if its “safe” to speak out.
Jeffrey, I’m certainly not a college professor like you, but let me give you some thoughts on your persuasive essay/post:
First of all, while I appreciate the flourish of letting us know that “scores” of parents have confessed their kids secret grade inflation to you, I suspect that you are engaging in a bit of hyperbole there. What’s the real number? 5? How many parents do you know in Newton high schools? How many who discuss their kids grades with you and complain about grade inflation? Perhaps we just operate in different social circles with different concerns about our kids. (do you even have a kid in Newton high school right now?)
Second, you mention in the second paragraph a “memo”, but unless I’m missing it you don’t identify the memo. Is it the public records request report you got back? I’m assuming it is, but who knows? You go into detail about various sources/references at the end of your post, but your source material that you base your entire essay on is sadly missing. Hard to judge your conclusions when we don’t see the evidence. Which classes were eliminated? Did they split off honors and non-honors? What years were you given. Etc.
Third, let’s talk about the evidence for grade inflation you cite. You call it a “grade inflation project”. But you site just one semester of grades, Fall of 2021? Following a pandemic. With many student and teacher absences and accommodations. With many students having mental health challenges. Perhaps the grades are also higher because kids are being eased back into school a bit after a year on zoom. Perhaps the grades are a bit higher because your report also includes electives, which generally see higher grades. Perhaps the kids were given opportunities to raise their grades with extra work, like mine was occasionally. Perhaps you are picking and choosing your data set.
Fourth, you cite your own class syllabus as an example of proper grade distribution. That’s convenient, but a bit of an unfair comparison. Good on you for making sure your students in college are held to a higher standard, but did you forget we are talking about 14-18 year old kids? Not college kids? And unless I’m mistaken, most college classes are rife with grade inflation too! Certainly far less rigorous than your own college syllabus! From my own experience and the experience of my family members in local colleges (and after talking to a few of your fellow professors), pretty sure grade inflation is a common occurrence at every major college in town. BC. Northeastern. BU. Harvard. Pretty damn hard to get a C at those institutions. Hardest part was getting in they said. Shouldn’t the parents of college kids at those colleges be equally concerned. Won’t life kick all those kids in the teeth in a similar way once they graduate? Shouldn’t the colleges care more? Perhaps it is just those basic humanities classes at the colleges giving out all of those As…
Fifth, you have shown a limited data set with the Newton schools, but even if you have the data for Newton (but didn’t share it), you’d need to obtain the data from other peer schools and private schools for us to understand the problem. Do you have that data too? Let me provide you some data points from parents I know whose kids go to private school (not scores, but 10 or so). Those schools do everything they can to help kids get the highest grades possible. They certainly don’t advertise it, and there are no public record requests. But the majority of kids gets As and the average grade is between A minus and B plus. Their goal is to get the kids into college, and a bad grade point average helps no one. Is that the right approach? Who knows. But it certainly exists. And lets look at our peer high schools. Certainly none of the parents I know in Needham, Lexington, Brookline or Weston view their schools as immune from grade inflation. Have you compared Newton to any of those schools? If not, the “problem” you are identifying isn’t a “Newton” problem, but a high school problem in the age of the common college application and a rush to not disadvantage competitive high school college applicants from our schools. If grade inflation exists everywhere (and it certainly DOES exist in private schools), why do you wish to hold Newton schools to a different standard? After all, you can’t even hold your own college to a similar standard…
Grade inflation is a topic that seems to rise up every so often as a generational complaint, but it was around 30 years ago when I went to high school and college too. Pretty sure you had to work damn hard to get a C, and you got a B for showing up and trying. Shocking. Things worked out ok. Parents somehow knew when their kids weren’t keeping up. Parent teacher conferences were amazing ways to find out I was screwing up if I remember. And with email today, I’d have been doubly screwed.
I really can’t tell you if you are actually concerned because you have a kid in the high school somehow upset by this, because you are focused individually on grade inflation and its impacts on student behavior, or if you are just concern trolling the Newton school system. You seem more interesting in proving a political point that anything else in my opinion. Feel free to provide additional information so we know, and if you have the additional data from other schools and private schools, would be happy to see that as well. But it has been a tough year for our students, and the ones I talk to have overcome quite a bit to get where they are. Maybe find a different issue du jour to focus on for a bit, or at least give them their graduation days before you crap on their accomplishments.
Thanks Fig for your interest in an important topic.
If anyone wants the memo, please email me at [email protected]. When I submitted my post to V14, I also submitted the memo and asked for it to be linked.
I have two kids who went to Newton elementary, middle, and high school. My son graduated last year. Although I have talked to parents this year, most of my conversations were last year. You can talk to a lot of parents at soccer games. The parents almost never complain, because they don’t know about the grade inflation. Rather, the conversation starts with parents telling me that their kids’ grades have skyrocketed. This is how I got interested in the topic.
Fig, I have never met you, so I do not understand the personal attack in the last paragraph. Readers of V14 won’t question my intentions and know that over many years I have been concerned with NPS making poor decisions that are at odds with delivering a high-quality education. The evidence tells us that grade inflation leads to poorer learning outcomes. Email me–I am happy to forward you the research.
We owe kids a high-quality education. I have invested a lot of time trying to improve things and I will continue to do so.
Jeffrey, some limited thoughts on the report below, but I stand by the last paragraph. Yesterday Newton North had its graduation. Today, South is graduating. Maybe give those graduates and their families those days to be proud of their accomplishments, even if you don’t agree with the grading scale.
As for this particular issue being a focus after your kids are no longer in the Newton system, I’ll take you at your word that you are doing this for the benefit of all of us still with kids in the Newton schools. It is, of course, easier to complain about the grading system after your kids are through the system and your family won’t be impacted by any changes.
I’ll note that from the report it seems clear that there was “grade inflation” previously (55% to 57% A and A minus combined each year) (which I’m sure is similar to most of our public school comparables, and all of the private schools). The marginal difference is the increase to higher grades for 69% of kids for the 1st grading quarter of 2022. 2021 used a different grading system so I’m not sure that data is instantly comparable or useful, and it was the full year of the pandemic where instruction was not in person. Seems like giving our kids a bit of leeway combined with the new temporary grading system made sense, at least to me, for 20/21.
As for the grades this year, you have a very limited data set. It is a bit too soon to show a pattern, especially as much attention was paid to easing the kids back into a full time school environment. Again, no surprise that grading would ease up a bit as teachers worked to encourage kids to return to full in person learning. Also many teachers and kids were out for stretches of this year due to health protocols. My understanding is that the teachers and counselors worked hard to allow those kids time to catch up, do extra work, take tests over time, and generally not punish kids for Covid times. Again, seems logical that might translate into higher grades, at least in the beginning part of this year. And if you had kids currently in the Newton high schools, you’d know that we were told that the high schools would be working on the transition back, and trying to ease kids in. I believe kindness and patience were the watchwords of the day. Makes sense to me, especially for 21/22 school year.
Personally, I think this is much ado about nothing. Perhaps in a few years with more data to show that this is the new normal and not just an adjustment to Covid learning patterns for a short time, you might have something to discuss, and something for the school committee to focus on. For now, as many of our kids struggle with mental health issues and returning to a more normal school existence this year, this seems more like data picking to fit a narrative, willfully ignoring the outside facts impacting the data set.
@Fig, your comments are far too long. I fall asleep halfway through every time. In the future, can you please add a bullet summary at the start of each dissertation? Thanks!
@Jeff, I know you are sincere in your desire to improve Newton schools. Thank you and please dont let the haters dissuade your desire to help.
@Frank, if you need everything chopped down into itty bitty increments or bullets, maybe it is time for you to take a course in speed reading and comprehension.
Frank:
Nope.
–Figgy
Fig,
I am miffed that someone who hides under the veil of anonymity continues to impugn my character–after I give details of my kid’s education to respond to your previous falsehood-based character attack. You write, “It is, of course, easier to complain about the grading system after your kids are through the system and your family won’t be impacted by any changes.” Your insinuation is wrong. I complained about this when my son was at Newton North. I am happy to forward you emails that I sent to Principal Turner last year. It is beyond that pale that you might need proof.
Why did I complain when my son was at Newton North? Because having meaningless grades hurts all students, including my kids. As a parent, I want to know how my kids are doing, where they need help and where they don’t. Grade inflation does not help kids get into college. If it did, all highs schools would give everyone A’s. Colleges aren’t stupid. They track grade inflation at the Newton high schools.
Second, grade inflation has nothing to do with student accomplishment or graduation. Your link is false. The graduation program and ceremony do not recognize kids based on grades.
You argue by questioning my motives. To make your point, please stick with logic and accurate facts.
Jeffrey:
A few points. I’m not using my anonymity as a shield. I have a kid in high school right now, which I’ve talked about many times. This issue matters to me. How the school treats my kid matters to me. How they are evaluated matters to me. How my kid is doing with his mental health matters to me. The fact is you don’t have the same skin in the game, and your kid graduated last year. Your perspective is different, more academic. Mine isn’t.
As for the timing, you are free to disagree that posting what you did on graduation day was bad timing. But to me it was a mistake (and also made me think you no longer had a kid in the school system). Graduation is more that just a day recognizing that you met the requirements to get a high school diploma. It is a day where parents look with pride at all their kids have accomplished during high school, and look to what they will accomplish in the future. Many parents are proud of how their kids have dealt with the pandemic challenges, and some of that is how they have done in school, including grades. And take this as you will, I’m not the only parent who felt the same way. I haven’t checked with scores of folks, but enough to know I’m not the only one, far from it.
As for questioning your motive vs. sticking with logic and accurate facts, I’m pretty sure my various responses were very focused on both logic and accurate facts. Did you read my long post above? I questioned your data set, your lack of taking into account the pandemic, the inconsistencies in the data across different grading systems both internally (last years A/B/Proficient vs the previous and current A/B/C/D/F) and externally (no data on peer schools, no data on private schools). I also questioned your lack of 2021/22 data except for the first grading period. I also think the concerns from the “scores” of parents concerned about this issue were largely a prior year issue, (in other words, some parents were worried about leaving the traditional A/B/C/D/F system last year, but now that we have returned to the traditional system, I’ve heard no one mention this issue during 2021/22). Your complaints to Principal Turner about last years system are not applicable to this year, since the grading system is not the same, but the data isn’t available yet in full to see if grade inflation will continue at the same percentages in the same manner. I think the above is pretty logical and accurate, but perhaps I’m too emotionally invested in this seeing as my kid is involved. But with such a lack of data, your conclusions are shaky and seem reinforced by your own worldview (in my opinion of course).
Speaking of kids, I suspect (and this is just a guess) that you are looking at this from the perspective of your own kids. I’m also guessing your kids are smart and did very well at Newton North both academically and emotionally. If so, congratulations and great job (truly, no snark). My guess is partially informed that if your kid or kids were struggling, this particular issue would not be your focus. You’d be more concerned about mental health counseling, accommodations due to medications to treat anxiety or other mental health issues made worse from the pandemic. You’d be fighting to get special education services to help your kids catch up during the pandemic. I’m doing all of that. I’m just guessing here, but we probably have very different real life perspectives about the pandemic and high school, and how the high school should deal with the challenges of reemerging from the pandemic.
So here is where I am, looking at your limited data and my own experience with a kid in the midst of this, and after experiencing both last years grade system and this years return to normal grading: I’m ok granting the high schools last years loosening of the grade standards. I’m ok with the way they’ve eased kids back into full time school. But I also don’t know, just like you don’t know, if these are long term changes or shorter term effects of the pandemic. I’m willing to give them time to figure it out. I’m betting the school committee is as well.
@Fig “Personally, I think this is much ado about nothing.” 100%. I agree with most everything you said in this thread. And I read your long comments in their entirety.
Thank you Mary. I admit to being emotionally invested in this particular issue, so that probably means I’m not being entirely fair to Jeffrey, and it also means I’m probably writing too much too. I’m going offline for a few hours for work, but will respond to other posts late this evening.
So the grades are basically meaningless. And now standardized testing (admittedly far from a perfect indicator) is optional at many colleges.
Good luck to a college admissions officer trying to figure out which students to admit. If a college receives 30 applications from Newton South students, how will they be able to differentiate a truly strong student from an average one?
Will admissions decisions rest on the “arms race” of extracurricular activities? Those activity lists can be pretty inflated, too, with virtually no fact-checking. An emphasis on extracurriculars also favors privileged kids who parents could afford the clubs, trips, lessons, opportunities. etc.
Somehow, in the quest to be “holistic”, “fair”, “kinder”, “gentler”, the whole system has gotten a lot more murky.
Newton Resident:
Far from it. There are AP classes, honors classes, and the grade inflation isn’t nearly as dire as Jeffrey makes it out to be, in my opinion. Grade inflation has been around for a long time. And most kids who are good students still take either the ACT or the SAT.
Doesn’t mean it isn’t much harder to get into college today, but that was true before any of this. The common application and the last 20 years of electronic applications made it much easier to apply, and more kids did apply to more schools.
One thing that is now very unfair is how schools use the early decision period to select most of their college kids. It forces kids to choose their school very early, and make a tough decision about not just where they apply but what school is likely to take them.
I wouldn’t describe the system as murky due to being kinder and gentler. I’d describe it as insanely competitive, especially in the Northeast. We should all move to rural North Dakota to get our kids into colleges, or maybe Alaska…
I call dibs on Wyoming!
Aren’t there bears in Wyoming? Like really big ones?
Feels like you are underestimating the impact of bears.
I’ve considered the bears. We’ll stay in Newton.
(Although there was that one bear near the pike in west Newton, 2? 3? years ago…)r
An encounter with a bear could present some high-grade fodder for the college admission’s classic “describe a personal challenge you’ve overcome” essay! Gotta work the angles!
Anne, there are Newton bears and then there are Wyoming bears. You’ve made a wise decision. I feel my work here is done. Good night to all.
I am a parent of one current student at south. My other child graduated South in 2020. My younger child’s South experience is alot different than my older childs.
2020-2021 – The school year was a joke. The teachers were fabulous and they did their best, but really how do you do the classic old fashioned closed book quiz and test when the kids were home. My kid took American Sign Language for the first semester and NEVER met her teacher face to face. And while there was a lot of compassion for the kids, the grades were different. But many kids, including my own, were isolated. I have never seen my younger child so, meh. It was a really, really hard year. And her math teacher NEVER really adjusted to online teaching. The rest of the teachers adapted and it was nice to be able to hear what was going on. But my once very social kid was trapped in her bedroom from 9 AM to 3:30 PM most days. No in person contact during the week. Hard stuff for a social kid.
2021-2022 – Current School Year. She has some amazing teachers. She has some classes that have CP, ACP and Honors kids in the class and these two particular teachers are rocking it.
BUT school is different. The long blocks (and the classes meet three times a week instead of four, so more like college) provide the space for the kids to do work with the expert (teacher) there, and my kid has less homework than my first kid.
WIN block – NOT my favorite use of time, even though NPS is saying how wonderful it is. Because of COVID, there are alot of teacher absences. So if you are struggling in chem, and your teacher is out a week, there is no new learning. Then the teacher returns, and you have to fight your way into a WIN, because many kids are now feeling lost due to the absence. There are WIN blocks where my kid can’t get to a teacher she NEEDS to get to.
Are grades inflated??? Not sure. Maybe what used to be a C is now a B, but believe me, there are many kids struggling. STRUGGLING with mental health. Struggling to get back into the swing of school. The last time they had a “normal” 180 in person school year was three years ago, and it is hard to get back into the routine, and using the brain in that way. If you don’t go to the gym for three years, and then try to use the elepitical for 60 minutes, followed by a one hour swim and then a 60 min bike ride, you tell me how you feel after that.
It is going to take time for these kids to get back to “normal” school. These kids are dealing with alot, and while I want NPS to provide the best education, some kids just can’t do it right now. For the kids who are doing the expected work, and showing through papers and tests (yes there are papers and tests), and they EARN an A, then give the kid the A. If the kid is struggling, but trying. That particular student earned an 80 through the work. They get a B. But I know alot of families from the other spectrum. The kids are hurting and getting Ds on tests. We need to understand that there are many kids soaring and flying and doing well. There is another set of kids who can’t snap back into school. There are not enough resources to help that set of kids in school or out of school.
Jeffrey – while I applaud that you want all students to work hard and really study and not everyone should get an A, there are many students/families that you might not interact with at the soccer field that have struggles. And if you see me on the field, and I have a struggling student, I am not going to be telling you that my kid is failing. I am not going to tell you while sitting on the folding chair, that my kid has lost all in person social connections because the other peers moved on while my kid might be struggling. I am not going to say that on the field. I am probably going to keep that to myself.
If 8% of students are struggling, then NPS should be called out for not addressing their needs. NPS should be not be taking the “easy” solution and lowering standards for 92% of the other students
anyway, this is all in the past. Waiting to see if the new NPS leadership will continue to go “woke”
IMHO, next year (2022-2023) we are in a holding period with an interim and then in 2023-2024 will be the new person’s first year. I am hoping that there is change in the future, but unfortunately my time with a student in NPS will be over. I have to say those with kids in high school right now won’t see change by the time their student graduates high school.
Under no scenario is it ok to lower standards. For any student at any time.
We need to give the children the best opportunity to succeed in whatever they do next. Grade inflation helps no one.
I think JP for raising this important topic and I think it is something we need to look closely at. The current NPS trend is alarming, not just grades but scheduling, fakequity, mixed level classes, reductions in funding, etc.
We need a new Superintendent who comes from outside the district and is truly NON-PARTISAN.
Note: I added this link to the Grades Report in the post.
Anecdotally, as a parent with a graduating NPS student this year, the usual numbers of kids have gotten into the Ivies or top twenty schools with a surprising number admitted to Harvard from one high school. Personally, I care less about grade inflation. I do not think that getting A’s disincentivizes students. Getting a C or D is deflating and is just as likely to curtail their motivation. I am much more interested in how NPS has prepared my student for college. Having one child graduating college this year, I would say an NPS education made them well prepared for the rigors of college academics. I have a second child graduating from NPS this year. We’ll see about how well prepared that child is. Covid really threw things off academically and a year of Zoom learning hurt a lot. Both NPS and the school committee share culpability on that account.
The new schedule with classes meeting three times a week is not conducive to teacher absences, especially in this age of Covid. I would rather see the spotlight shine on what students do when teachers are absent( Answer: generally nothing). I have never understood why the high schools do not provide short term substitutes. Someone told me it was because there were not enough substitutes. I can only look back on my own high school experience and we usually had a substitute. At the very least, a substitute teacher may give “busy” work, but it is certainly better than the alternative of watching Netflix during the class.
@ Bruce – if a student deserves a C, who cares if it is deflating for their morale. Maybe they are a) in the wrong level, b) not trying hard enough, c) need more help, d) have other issues preventing them from success.
The point is, if you give them an A, you arent getting to the root cause of the problem and are giving them a false sense of success. You dont want to affirm poor results with inflated grades. You want them to get what is earned and then work toward improvement!
Yes, let’s deflate grades, put students under even more stress at a time when NPS schools are having serious mental health crises, and make college admissions even harder.
Everyone in NPS getting an A will surely get more attention from admissions officers than if students start to get Cs. Schools will take the A students in a grade inflated world over C students in a grade deflated world, especially as they increasingly become test optional.
Comparing *high school* to your *college class* curve is apples and oranges.
@Jim, you are joking, right?
Are you really saying we sacrifice education to make kids feel better about themselves?
Thank God you are not a school administrator responsible for the education of my kids. I prefer my kids to work theiur butts off and get a B- than, as Irene said, do less work because “who cares I got an A”.
Honestly, how can you be serious. I know you probably want your kids to get all the participation trophies possible, but I only want my kids to have the trophies they earn. Not earning one should be the motivation needed to work harder.
And this is why the mental health of NPS students is what is is today. I appreciate you making that point for me.
@Jim. What point, that you are soft? I hope your kids get all the participation trophies. My kids will get the gold medals. Let’s see who has more success in life.
Also, Im Pretty sure the mental health challenges are a result of the NTA and other unions closing schools completely unnecessarily.
But you will say its stress from getting Cs? Haha how about stress from getting fired when they cant perform at their jobs because they are babied and expect everything handed to them on a silver platter. Sorry, but im raising hard workers, not softies.
@Frank you are just too macho for us all. We’re not worthy. I am sure that you are the epitome of success in your own mind.
Relax. Sure I am successful, aren’t most people who live here?
My only point is a simple one. We need to give the kids the best education possible. We dont make them better people by inflating grades or giving participation trophies. We make them better and more successful by challenging them, educating them and teaching them the value of hard work.
Jim thinks getting a C is “stressful”. I think its an opportunity to learn. Grades tell us where we need to work harder. Whats “macho” about that? The real world doesnt care about your feelings, only your contribution.
Please tell me where I am wrong. Sure I’m abrasive at times, but all i care about is my family and their future.
What a sad man you are.
Didn’t the principal and the asst super write a book with the union president about “changing the narrative”?
Jeffrey,
Thank you for bringing up this important topic.
My daughter graduated last year from NSHS, and yes, I believe that the grade inflation was absolutely a thing in the last two semesters of last academic year, and that it was extremely demotivating for her. She is a conscientious student, but is hugely motivated by grades. As a parent, we saw the level of effort that she put into her studies decrease quite significantly. When we would point out to her that we haven’t seen her do much homework or studies, she would point out that she is getting all As, so who cares. It was definitely a stark difference from what it was before the pandemic. She worked much harder for her grades. I also hear from fellow parents that the grading system is a joke at HS. It is unfortunate, and I hope, changes by the time my younger kids are ready to go to HS. A grade should reflect a child’s knowledge, and if someone is struggling, give that student extra help instead of boosting their grade artificially.
The memo spells out very clearly what constitutes and A,B, and Pass from last year. It should be no surprise why so many A’s were granted. I would say the issue of grade inflation is one that concerns the parents.The students themselves are focused on getting an A, not in the amount of grade inflation. If anything, there is still ample stress and anxiety amongst students about getting an A in high school. As a former teacher, I lament the emphasis on grades. School is about learning and not getting a particular letter grade. Whether it is Newton or any of its peer schools, many kids are conditioned to think of their self worth by the grades they receive.
Essentially, Frank is 100 percent correct. Perhaps hyperbolic at times, but I think drilling down to the truth of the matter. Watering down grades (and NPS is far from alone in doing so) is not a good policy.
Funny how the private schools never seem to worry about this, Andy. And with my small amount of teaching experience, I’d say the grade meant far less than the student’s ability to understand the material. As for this being good policy, good policy during normal times? Or during the midst of a pandemic? As I’ve stated above, the data set is limited. Jeffrey’s point seems very fixed on last years grading system, which no longer exists. Let’s see if the grades revert closer to the mean for the past decade before declaring a crisis in policy. Show me the trend a year or two from now.
As for Frank being 100 percent correct, I think Frank’s view of winners and losers, participation trophies and gold medals, grades truly earned vs. grade inflation just doesn’t reflect real life. I hear it often in concept, but it overly simplistic. The playing field is never completely level. The differences between kids at the top of classes are often minor. School isn’t an Olympic sport with a finish line. How about classes outside of school meant to prep kids for classes? SAT prep? AP class tutors?
What I am concerned with is education, not grades. Is my kid learning, progressing, able to handle the work and do excellent work. Can we handle the load in college and in life? Can my kid perform on AP tests? Can my kid self advocate for additional help if needed?
Grades are just one piece of a larger puzzle. If it was just grades that mattered, colleges would admit solely based on GPA. They don’t, far from it.
As for grade inflation itself, I’d be fine with adjusting the Newton grading scale to something else long term. Just wave your magic wand and do it across the board, statewide. Public and private. But even from Jeffrey’s example, his own college class has grade inflation. A traditional bell curve in a science class would have a portion of the class getting As, a similar portion getting Fs, and the bulk getting Cs. Why? Because I’m guessing his college wouldn’t let him fail 10% of the kids. And no one would take his class if he had that scale. Students aren’t stupid. And even college professors have to respect the marketplace…
So if you want to enact change, you’d need to do it on a state/national scale. Because just changing Newton only hurts our kids, when their peer schools and private schools continue to use inflated grading scales. And look at the data that Jeffrey provided. You aren’t arguing that grade inflation shouldn’t exist, just that we went “too far” and now too much grade inflation exists. Or you are arguing in a vacuum about grade inflation being “bad” without recognizing that your kids benefited from it as well in a lesser form. That’s fine from a perspective of virtue signaling about our kids “earning their way” but it doesn’t reflect reality, both the past reality of actual grading systems and the reality of what our peer schools/private schools do.
One final point, with respect to the events in question. My recollection is that 5 years or so ago, there was a cluster of suicides in the Newton schools, and we had similar discussions about how the schools shouldn’t be so stressful, how Newton schools were meatgrinders due to so many excellent students, that smart kids were being hurt getting into excellent colleges because of grading systems that unfairly punished them compared to private schools. I mention this not because I want to advocate for grade inflation as a stress relief device for students, but to point out that this type of concern about grade inflation comes and goes based on the events of the day. And that there is more to be concerned about than just making our kids “soft” to quote Frank.
There have been some extraordinary events these past few years. I’m not interested in assigning blame. The reality is what it is. I refuse to say the sky is falling or the policy is bad when the events of the day prompted the change and the change is likely not permanent.
@fig “ Funny how the private schools never seem to worry about this, Andy. ”
Also funny how private schools dont have unions politicizing education. Correlation? Probably.
I challenge you to try and make a point in less than 523,467 words per post. Maybe more people who read your comments.
Sorry typo, more people will (not who) read.
Frank, as much as the teachers union in the Newton public school has both positive and negative aspects on our kids education, pretty sure that the grading scale in private school has little to do with any union activity. Far more likely the $50,000 to $75,000 (and much more for boarding school) parents are paying the private schools to help their kids get into the best college possible (and get a good education along the way of course) has something to do with it. Just a thought. Could be wrong. What do I know?
As for the lengths of my posts, feel free to not read them Frank. I don’t write them for you, and I don’t care either way if you read them or don’t. After all, no participation trophies for reading comprehension. No need to go for the gold medal every time. Plenty of shorter posts to focus on.
For what it’s worth, I looked at the last 10 years of SAT scores from NSHS and there is basically no trend (save for a step increase starting 5 years ago when the writing & reading scores were combined).
Scores can be broken down by test subject and student sub-population here: https://profiles.doe.mass.edu/sat/sat_perf_dist.aspx?orgcode=02070510&orgtypecode=6&&fycode=2012
I can’t remember exact percentages, but I do recall that As were a precious commodity in most classes at the old Newton High School during the 1950s. I don’t think anymore than 15 % of students in most classes received them. Actually, B- was considered pretty respectable. Most were somewhere between B – and C. As, Bs and Cs were recorded in black ink while Ds were recorded in light red and Fs in bright red ink. There was a numbering system of something like 1 to 8 that would let your parents know how you screwed up if you were unfortunate enough to be on the receiving end of a D or an F.