I was viewing Crystal Lake activity on a warm sunny day this week, noting tons of children, teenagers and young adults mixing in close proximity. And that was just in the bath house, beach, and formal swimming area. I was to left to wonder whether it is better to open the bath house, beach, docks, and swimming area with strict rules and enforcement, or keep it closed with no rules and lack of enforcement. There’s no way for the police to maintain active supervision in this setting. In contrast, if there were many Parks and Rec staff people on duty, enforcement might be more effective.
And, yes, the other access and grassy spots are a separate problem. An intractable one, I’d guess.
One critical question about any of these reopening experiments: do we have enough contact tracing and public reporting that we can identify and shut down any hotspots that emerge, and prevent them from being replicated?
We don’t seem to have that right now for the existing essential services such as supermarkets. It would provide a great deal of confidence for decision-makers and the public. And it needs to be on a hyperlocal level (houses of worship, stores, civic and recreation sites). We also need to preserve privacy.
I agree, Mike, and I don’t think those are at all likely to be in place this summer to assist in the monitoring of places that are open or re-opened. (Although MA does have a contact tracing effort, I don’t think it gets to the level you suggest.)
Paul, I’m trying to understand the problem. Of the few things we know about this awful disease, studies from Australia, Iceland, and China all agree that it has a very low transmission outside (some say close to zero). By all means open the beach at Crystal Lake.
Well, Crystal Lake has scan-in membership for official swimming. If it opens, there could be a point of contact that if someone gets sick, they can report it. That would give the city at least a chance to either notify or at least monitor possible spread.
Open it up to all. No restrictions. Free membership. Let the kids be kids. Karen’s can stay home.
“Karen’s”?
Craig, I don’t think that includes being right next to other people for extended period of time.
Craig, it is true that outdoor risks are significantly less than indoor risks. However, we have very little information to quantify, or at least stratify, different kinds of outdoor risks.
Specifically, we don’t know about what is the impact of crowding levels, especially at pinch points (check-in, showers, etc. – showers are still important to fend off those other microbes, and we also know that our current virus passes through the GI tract, but are public showers safe?).
We also don’t know relative risks between different types of locations (oceans vs rural ponds vs Crystal Lake vs Gath Pool). We do have data that indicated chlorination kill coronaviruses in general, so that’s something, but on the other hand, Crystal Lake isn’t chlorinated.
We live in a state that’s lost a heck of a lot of people to this still-active virus. We still have a thousand new cases a day (that we know about). Primary care physicians and pediatricians aren’t even up and running yet to deal with standard summer kid injuries and other health concerns. We are seeing several serious, long-term health concerns post-virus recovery, including rare but significant risks to kids.
After the huge costs we’ve all paid, the state and local government simply aren’t going to take “let kids be kids” risks. All current evidence suggests much of the public won’t either without assurance from public health personnel. Fred, that’s a whole lots of Karens, and a whole lot more regular folks as well.
The Governor’s and the Mayor’s approach has been overwhelmingly based on sound and measured medical and scientific principles. Phased reopening, and any corrections that need to be made during the process, will hopefully be based on the same principles.
Independent of whether you believe reopening is too fast or too slow, too restrictive or too risky, it makes sense that you’d want to know if people were getting sick because of policy choices. General contact tracing can help, but we might be able to establish other local “early warning systems” that give us more confidence in our decisions.
Our policymaking needs feedback mechanisms.
The beach has about 1,800 square feet of usable sand area depending on the water level. The guidelines require 12 feet between every beach blanket or towel. That’s 144 square feet per. This works out to 12-13 beach blankets or towels on the beach. Could this be done safely? Of course. Would it be efficient? Worth the cost per user? Probably not. I don’t think this will come down to being able to safely operation and manage the beach as much as it will simple economics and resources versus value-added.
Mike, you make a lot of good points and I think one’s point of view on this largely depends on whether you think this virus will be around for many years (as I do) or hope that we can completely stamp it out (as you appear to). At this point it is impossible to know for sure.
Because I do feel that corona will be something we have to live with (like the flu – although we know that for kids the seasonal flu is much more dangerous) my policy prescriptions would be based on this assumption.
Pediatricians should never have closed but certainly should be up and running now.
Kids should be out playing with friends, including on school owned fields.
When you say microbes that could be showered off, are you referring to the efforts by Crystal Lake abutters to pretend that swimming on the beach side is safe but Cronin’s Cove is not?
We will have to agree to disagree on whether Baker and Fuller’s responses in general have been based on science or fear.
@Paul Levy: Apparently, “Karen” has become a catch-all term to describe people who are considered officious and rigid about following rules, guidelines and/or general conventions. It seems to have coincided with the coronavirus crisis, but may have already been in use before that.
As an antecedent, there is an old “Star Trek” episode (“The Way to Eden”) in which “Herbert” is used as an epithet, in reference to a minor official, supposedly notorious for rigid, limited patterns of thought.
Craig, I don’t know (and no one does) whether COVID-19 will be eradicated. I do know, though, that our ability to effectively treat it is improving. That means clinical protocols today and pharmaceuticals in the medium term. The rate of developments now remains remarkable, and what we don’t know about the disease remains significant (and directly relevant to how we keep people as safe as possible as we open up commercial and civic life).
Pediatricians and primary care services aren’t generally closed now. They are, however, on intensive protocols to keep kids and parents and staff safe. Even more, parents and other adults are hesitant to visit their family’s medical professionals, in some cases resulting in serious complications. Yes, this is fear, but it is fear with some basis in reality that can’t be turned on and off like a light switch.
I tell my kids that if they get hurt or sick, we’ll get them the care they need, but if they could avoid it for a couple of months we’d really appreciate it :)
As for whether the state has made science-based decisions, I keep a couple of things in mind. First, like the old expression goes, life is like a rowboat: moving forward, but looking backward. For example, your view that the coronavirus will be around for many years probably has evolved over the last two months. We pulled our kids out of school a day before they closed and I thought we were radicals. In highly dynamic situations, decision-makers have limited information to craft policy, and they have to be risk averse in the face of major potential threats, especially ones to public health and safety. We are also fortunate to have the world’s best health professionals in Boston with practical, on-the-ground experience in managing epidemic response.
Yes, things haven’t been as bad so far as the worst we feared. But this isn’t like a blizzard forecast that closes schools and turns out to be dandruff. Our policy decisions can’t influence the weather, but they do very much influence the course of a pandemic. We will never know how bad it could have become. But in Massachusetts, it was, and is, plenty bad. Most of our hospitals still don’t have the capacity to return to elective care, and they have the most practical internal and external knowledge about what it means to be safe at work today. It is deceptively easy to look back and say we can relax our vigilance because the threat didn’t pan out, rather than it being actively averted.
The government, though, by necessity paints with a broad brush. Simple, understandable rules help with compliance but lack nuance. “Six feet” is a very crude yardstick of safety, but it’s also a very practical one. Same it true for some outdoor restrictions which have limited activities that pose little practical risk but are difficult to carve out as an exception. On the other hand, the state and city have so far resisted (for example) requiring masks outside all the time, even when some members of the public have demanded it. That’s a decision in-line with the current research of COVID-19 and other infectious diseases.
That broad brush means we need to can’t special-case every facility. We need at least some sort of consistent policy and principles for Crystal Lake, Gath Pool, and other recreational facilities. We need to balance compliance, safety, and the ability to communicate and enforce when needed. And most importantly, we need to figure out how to be agile, adapting rules to allow more freedom when possible, but identifying problems and pulling back when necessary.
Agility and monitoring will help us day to day, but it will also let us learn more for tomorrow, helping us set our course forward with greater confidence.
Well stated.
Crystal lake has been a mess for years — people swimming illegally, drugs, even deaths. Maybe, like with many other things, we can take advantage of this tragedy to come up with better rules that can actually be enforced.
Craig,
You mentioned kids should be playing with each other. I am curious to know what science is backing you up. I brought my middle school kid in to the pediatrician last week for her annual physical and the pediatrician said NO playing with friends. They can sit six feet apart and talk with masks. No eating meals together outside. No playing any board or card games together. No playing ball together. Please post your article, so I can ask the pediatrician, because my kid is MISSING her friends in REAL person and can’t wait until ZOOM and FACETIME aren’t required.
Thank you.
Nay to Crystal Lake. The beach is tiny and it would be impossible to socially distance along that bench they have. The grassy area is on the other side of the fence. The shallow ends are not big. It’s simply not enough space. I’m not opposed to going to other beaches this summer and we probably will, but I don’t think social distancing is possible or safe at Crystal Lake. That is, unless they seriously limit how many people are there at a time, but is it worth staffing?
Crystal Lake will be packed regardless of whether the City “opens” it or not. This year will be no different than any other year when people swim illegally.
@NewtonMom Making these types of decisions requires piecing together data from various sources because unfortunately neither our president or our media are making things easy.
New York City handled their covid outbreak worse than any place on earth with the possible exception of Wuhan, and yet their deaths per 100,000 for kids under 17 is zero. Closer to home, there has not been one single death of a child under 17 in the state of Massachusetts.
We know that lack of social time (and certainly lack of sports) is profoundly detrimental to children. And we know they don’t die of covid.
The risk of death from covid for healthy 42 year olds isn’t zero but it is pretty close to it. I’m willing to take the risk of my children playing outside with other children because they are unlikely to get it, unlikely to spread it to me, and I’m unlikely to die of covid in the unlikely event that those first two conditions occur.
If we don’t start now, how can we have school in the fall?
Did anyone see the signs placed around CL about mask wearing? Since when do I need a mask outside if no one is within six feet of me? Please tell me someone made those signs and it was not the city.
Craig,
I found this information on the CDC website:
The key to slowing the spread of COVID-19 is to practice social distancing. While school is out, children should not have in-person playdates with children from other households. If children are playing outside their own homes, it is essential that they remain 6 feet from anyone who is not in their own household.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html#COVID-19-and-Children
Until the CDC removes these guidelines, my children will not be having in person playdates, unless they are sitting six feet away with masks. We all get to parent our own way, but when the above statement is on a current CDC website, and the child’s physician has told me no contact with people outside our own household, we will be avoiding fields with balls and other kids.
Just walked by CL and it looks like Spring Break. Both sides of lake filled with people, paddle boards in water, and no masks. Those who dislike this should go down and tell them to leave. I did nothing when I walked by 30 mins ago bc I agree the kids should be able to be kids.
Mayor Fuller’s update today:
Gath Pool, Crystal Lake Not Opening
I must also share another piece of disappointing news. We will not be able to operate either the Gath Memorial Pool or the Crystal Lake Beach this summer.
Knowing what we do about virus transmission, the necessary health guidelines and restrictions in group settings for physical distancing and group sizes, the state guidelines, the size and layouts of our facilities and employee safety and thinking carefully about how we could operate and how people use our two aquatic sites, we have concluded that we aren’t able to safely operate either this summer. Ultimately, this decision is about protecting the health of residents and our staff.
I know this is bad news for so many people and families who rely on Gath Pool and Crystal Lake to cool off, have fun, and get some exercise, all of which is especially needed at this time.
What does this mean for Crystal Lake this summer? Near the bathhouse, the beach will be closed, the sections of the dock that are stored on the land behind the bathhouse will be off limits and trespassing will not be permitted. In the Coves, we will be posting signs reminding people to maintain 6 feet of distancing and to wear face coverings when that distancing is not possible.
This is a disappointing decision but the right one for Newton. I look forward to the better days ahead including the eventual reopening of these facilities next summer.
Crystal Lake and the Gath Pool remaining closed for the summer is another necessary evil brought to you by the summer of the Novel Coronavirus unless we are hoping for Newton to create herd immunity and I would prefer, if it has to happen anywhere that it happen somewhere else.
In my opinion, not coming up with any creative solutions related to kids and teens is not a “necessary evil”. It’s a choice that is going to make the community less safe.
To everyone who is upset about the current social distancing behavior of kids, just wait until there is no “school”, no camp, and no activities.
Unfortunately, I think the mayor’s life experience points to people being able to being able to go to the club, a summer house, or pay for private help.
The decision to close the main beach at Crystal Lake is nothing short of shameful. It isn’t supported by science and it certainly isn’t supported by common sense. Those that swam on the other “illegal” beaches will continue to do so and families with young children will suffer.
If our leaders are too fearful to open outdoor recreation spaces how can we possibly count on them to open schools in the fall?
It would seem that the only gatherings currently permissible are riots.
@Craig. On a few (very few) occasions, I’ve called out comments on this blog that have been completely over the top and unfair. I found something you just wrote to be quite repulsive. I was reading your last comment to see if there were things I really could identify with and I try and give this basic courtesy to everyone who posts on Village 14 because we’re all in this as a community. I also wanted your thoughts because I miss lap swimming and water aerobics at the Y and have been lately fantasizing about a plunge or two at Crystal Lake at some point over the summer. Then you spoiled any chance I could take your comments seriously with the last shot about riots with it’s inference that any official in Newton or beyond is giving the green light to riots, looting and other such mayhem. I wish that all who post and comment here could refrain from using the essence of a post to score points on unrelated issues or against groups and individual they may have political or community differences with.
I think the Mayor is wise to close Crystal Lake. If you have ever spent anytime there you would notice both how many people can be in such little space and also how people there often do not listen to the Staff. I can’t say how many times over the years I have witnessed the Staff politely asking someone to follow an existing rule and the offender ignoring or rudely questioning the Staff on why this rule exists. It would be a battle of frustration for them to open expecting people to comply with restrictions.
Bob – Your point is well taken. I’m glad we agree that rioting and looting are never justified, and just because organizations like the NY Times excuse it doesn’t mean that the fine people of Newton do.
At any rate people have been swimming in Crystal Lake for nearly a month now and you are more than welcome to join.
@Newton Highlands Mom,
Completely agree with your comment. Two of my kids spent many summers working as guards at the lake, so I’m quite familiar with the behaviors they dealt with regularly. For the most part, they met many lovely people, but they also had to deal with a fair share of adults who, as you correctly noted, either do not listen to them or want to argue with them. Then, of course, there was the frequent issue of parents losing track of their children (or asking guards to watch their kids for them – eye roll) and the tense search for a missing child.
It’s sad of course, for the kids who rely upon the summer jobs at the lake, for the children who will not have swimming lessons, for the campers who made daily visits to the lake, and for the many adults who enjoy the swimming with the safety and security of guards watching over them. But I think it is a prudent decision for the City to make under the circumstances.
The Mayor’s comments seems farcical. If it is closed, why is the parking lot open? I walked passed Bath House at Crystal Lake on Sunday and other than the fact that the gates were locked the place was hopping. The parking lot was open and packed and I saw adults and children swimming in the lake. Seemingly everyone either jumped the fence or swam in. Unless the city is going to police the spot, this is just a farce. Personally, I would like to see the city come up with a creative way to leverage this great resource while providing oversight