The Newton Highlands Area Council will hear a presentation Thursday Nov. 1 for an approximately 42 unit residential development at 1114 Beacon Street (the former ApGuJung restaurant) at Newton Four Corners. This meeting starts at at 7:30 p.m. at the Brigham House, 20 Hartford Street. At the same meeting the council will hear about the proposed new zoning map.
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This is nitpicking, but please change the name of the meeting site to “Brigham House.”
Thanks, Dave.
So why isn’t the proposed development mixed-use? And what’s a “street activation”?
Plenty of empty seats at Zervas. Let’s do it.
I have to wonder the same thing as Adam. Yes, we need the housing, but it would be good for this to help expand the walkable landscape in that otherwise commercial area. If designed well, it could encourage a similar street-front if the strip mall next door ever gets redeveloped, helping activate Newton Four Corners.
The transportation infrastructure there isn’t amazing, but there is the 59 bus to connect to the Green Line and to the Commuter Rail, and it’s a relatively active bike route on both Beacon and Walnut. It’s also walkable to the Whole Foods, (seasonally) the Farmer’s Market, some decent restaurants and the library.
Great use for that space. That locale has been unable to hold a restaurant for any substantial length of time. Housing plus some retail would be a great addition. What with the nearby intersection, the bus routes, etc. I cannot think of a better place for a brand spanking new pot shop along with a liquor store, vape shop, and maybe even something for the more romantic citizens of Newton.
I don’t think most people in Newton realize how racist our fear of housing bringing additional school children looks to people outside of Newton. I had this mentioned to me twice recently. The first time someone said it, I thought perhaps they just see bias everywhere. The second time got me thinking.
I’ve been working in a variety of public schools and educational environments in the Greater Boston area over the past 5 years, the only ones that are truly integrated are locked psychiatric wards. On NPR yesterday some expert said our schools are now more segregated than they were during the Jim Crow era. They might be right.
@Lucia is right on this. One of my frustrations with every aspect of the “make it smaller” or the “don’t develop here” debates is how the voice absent in the room is the voice of the person who is ultimately denied a chance to live here. We need more housing options, but my opinion is widely known.
A lot of the discussion around pot shops, development, street changes, transportation, etc. seems to be around this abstract idea that “I, as the current resident, chose to live here under these current conditions and I don’t want those conditions to change.” You see this even when we try to move or eliminate unused parking. Unsaid is this idea that “I don’t want the people in my neighborhood who want to live in this changed condition” even though the changed condition may be what the broader market wants. As an example, people accept liquor stores because they were already in place, they chose not to live in a dry town. But bringing in a different type of shop is frightening precisely because it’s a change.
The funny thing about @elmo’s trolling is that there’s a solid point buried in there. Given the requirements around security on pot shops, a new retail property within this housing proposal could account for the build issues and offer a great opportunity for a new shop, especially given that it’s already zoned. New residents would move in completely aware of what is there, allowing them to make a choice about whether they want to live near a pot shop.
I don’t believe in making public policy based on optics, and I don’t think most of the concern about adding school children is racist. We have a real school capacity problem here.
However, I don’t believe the solution is keeping people out. That’s unrealistic given the housing situation in the greater Boston area, and also harmful to people who grew up in Newton and want to live in their home town and to those of us who are older and want to be able to downsize without being chased out of town.
What has been lacking is leadership from our mayor’s office (current and past) and City Council in making school building plans based on realistic assumptions of what capacity is needed and where as Newton gains more housing. We need to build larger schools or school which can easily be enlarged or add schools. Taking an ostrich approach won’t work.
Just to be clear, I wasn’t being tongue in cheek. We nearly doubled the size of Zervas. Plus, according to the plans, it looks like this development is for one and two bedroom units. Probably wouldn’t be a ton of kids anyway.
We have a $1B unfunded liability that we either have to grow our way out of or deal with austerity for decades. I’m for the former.
@Patrick: I’m glad you clarified that. Thanks.
I like it – after the suggestions the city made are added to the proposal. I like where it’s located. Adding first floor retail also sounds great. The residents can also walk to Walgreens.
It would certainly give Four Corners more of a “village center” type feel with retail on the bottom and housing on the top.
Lucia said: “I don’t think most people in Newton realize how racist our fear of housing bringing additional school children looks to people outside of Newton.”
While I do not necessarily agree that it looks “racist,” I strongly believe that opposition to housing that includes affordable units for individuals as well as families with children is not consistent with fair housing laws, the HUD Conciliation agreement with the Supporters of Engine 6, or the City’s fair housing goals. The state fair housing and anti-discrimination laws prohibit discrimination based on familial status, i.e., families with children. For the City to give in to opposition to housing from residents because it would add students to the public schools would clearly run afoul of fair housing laws.
Lucia,
I don’t mind adding housing if we have the teachers/space to educate more students. When Avalon was built, the school population of Countryside ballooned and there was not enough space in the school for all of the students.
If we have space at Angier/Zervas, then yes, build the new homes. However, I have to caution you that while my son was at Brown, the lunch line there was huge. More kids at Brown, means more teachers, but the cafeteria is only so big, and each grade eats as a unit. If there are more students, the lunch line is not able to move through in a timely fashion and kids don’t get enough time to eat their lunches.
The City wants more housing, but we need to build the space within the school system to accommodate the students, and not squish them into the current space.
THM – You’re a non-Hispanic White Newtonite, the people I was talking to, who believe Newton is racist, were none of the above.
As another non-Hispanic White Newtonite, I don’t believe I can fully understand their experiences with Newton, but when I hear the same sentiments from two separate people at run-of-the-mill business functions I can’t help but wonder.
NewtonMom – I agree. Though, I think the Brown Lunch problem has more to do with scheduling (super short lunch periods, slow lunch lines, etc.) than overcrowding.
I’m on the Highlands Area Council. All of these comments have been very helpful.
I understand the rentals at that site would be expected to be at least $3000/month. If people think this project is going to bring diversity to the community I think they would be mistaken. So personally I think Lucia’s concerns that opposition to the project have racist undertones is off the mark. These are not low-income units that are being proposed.
I also agree with above posters that retail on first floor would be an asset, but my understanding is that the current proposal does not include ANY retail. So there are also concerns about the project changing site from commercial tax rate to residential.
I’m all for mixed- use development, and this certainly sounds like the kind of project we’ll need in the future given the strong demand for housing and the changing demographics of the Boston area. However, I have a feeling that the commercial/retail aspect will need lots of fine tuning. Let’s not forget the site is available because it was the home of a failed restaurant. Given the retail realities in the Amazon era, if we want something other than national chains, upper crust boutiques or – wait for it – bank branches, the City will have its work cut out for it if we want something else.
The minutes to last night’s meeting can be found here.
As Newton Newbie mentioned the current plan lacks retail and rents are expected to be $3k. I’m not sure that will bring people what they are looking for i.e. affordable housing so that there is opportunity for some economic diversity and to allow older folks to stay in Newton.
As far as the schools Browns issue is not scheduling. It is that the first big grade is now reaching middle school. In two years the Brown student population is expected to increase even more to 815 and then get even large the following 2 years. As Newton Newbie mentioned Avalon was the beginning of the overcrowding at Countryside which then was shifted to Bowen and then shifted to Mason-Rice. This led to Zervas being bumped ahead of Cabot in the building schedule. I believe though that this proposed property would currently fall into the Zervas district which goes to Oak Hill. Because they were not redistricting existing kids in each school it will take time for Zervas to reach capacity. It looks NPS expects it to reach close to 500 kids in the next 3 years which is just based on existing trends and doesn’t include any large building projects in that area.
The reason people keep mentioning the schools and their impact when these scenarios come up is because of the overcrowding that has existed the last few years and the current situation. In order to increase capacity there would be a need for another school or renovations. We are already in a situation where the schools were neglected and there is a steady stream of projects that need to occur. This takes money for construction, teachers, buses etc. I think there is already a portion of our population who feels too much money goes to the school and are struggling to find ways to stay in Newton.
I feel that there is quite a bit of cultural diversity at the middle school and high school level. At Brown at one large parent session for incoming 6th graders the Principal asked about where the parents went to middle school and the largest show of hands was for those who went outside of the US. At a small freshmen parents coffee at South about 25% of the families had recently moved from outside of the US. I think the real issue is creating opportunity for some economic diversity which may go hand in hand with what Lucia is mentioning but I don’t think people’s basis for being wary of proposed projects is racially based . I wish I knew the answer on how to create that but proposed projects with rent of $3k or with luxury apartments with a few market rate (probably too high for most to afford) or affordable units doesn’t seem to be the way to get there. Though having some retail on the bottom floors would make this project more appealing.
Ted wrote “Let’s not forget the site is available because it was the home of a failed restaurant.”
I don’t think that site is inherently bad for a well run and good restaurant. Although I never went to the Korean restaurant that was there, I remember before that Vinny Testa’s and The Naked Fish both did great business at that location and were always busy. The Thai restaurant (Manow) next door is thriving. Dumpling House across the street is also doing well. I don’t think we need to assume the only retail that that can work in that spot is a bank or nail salon.
Red Sauce (part of the Naked Fish chain) was closed due to problems the chain was having, not due to lack of business. My guess is that something like Paparazzi would also have done well there. Though the issue is moot at this point.
Will people really be willing to pay $3k/month for a 1 BR? That seems rather optimistic!
@Greg – your link to the minutes doesn’t work.
Newton Mom – You might be right about Brown lunchtimes, but 10 years ago when I was at Brown we were having a very similar discussion at School Council about kids not having enough time to eat lunch. We even did studies timing the kids in the lunchrooms. Back then it was determined the problem was a too short lunch period (which couldn’t be fixed because of school day times and statewide requirements for time in school), slow lines (kids paying with cash, not having enough $ on card, etc.).
The increase in students sounds like it could have been anticipated. To me, it sounds like a systemic problem “due to issues inherent in the overall system, rather than due to a specific, individual, isolated factor.” Wiki
NewtonNewbie, pls. don’t get me wrong, I think it’s great that restaurants seem to be thriving there and I would hope that any new housing would support these local businesses. I’m not in favor of more bank branches or nail salons than anyone else. My overall point was that the nature of retail is ever changing, and even Newton isn’t immune from it.
Curious to know if the NHNAC is supporting this housing….
@Lucia-
You hit the nail on the head.
Newton may be a “welcoming” city,
but not when it comes to affordable housing. “Affordable for thee, but not for me”. I’ve heard some pretty ignorant, intolerent, racist comments
at block parties and house parties by white liberals with a few glasses of wine or beer in them over the years. Shocking actually…
@Meredith-
The “capacity” issue is a red herring or
trope, in other words a non-issue.
Capacity has never been an issue unless the school is in your own child’s neighborhood. Some schools have been overcrowded for years historically, and not one pol has said boo. Our local pols have reliably taken a powder when it comes to advocating for overcrowded schools because that would create “advocacy inequity problems”.
Majorie Ross Decter might be speaking out about school issues in a “360”
manner, but her voice was silent in the years before her school committee tenure when Countryside- which was in her district- was being crammed with Avalon Bay kids.
@Paul Green – just because the pols don’t care about capacity doesn’t mean it’s not an important issue. My child was never at any of the overcrowded schools, but I cared (and still do) about the situation and found it appalling.
The weed debate – definitely has strong NIMBY element with implied undertones or race (or minimally, the desire to repel “weed smoking types”). But in the topic of housing, I don’t think it’s the same.
Newton High School students wake up at 5am to catch a ridiculously early bus (to the detriment of health), for no other reason that our streets can only take on so much traffic at one time before becoming completely grid locked.
Most will agree that affordable housing is needed (but at $3k/mo is really affordable?), but it’s the impact of the volumes of added people and the impacts that’s the greater cause for concern.
Housing pricing is all about supply and demand. Want lower housing prices (including rentals)? Build more housing and create less demand. That’s when and how prices will go down. The math is pretty simple.
If I may introduce another issue, we have many senior citizens who’ve lived in Newton for decades, their kids have attended NPS, contributed to the community in more ways than I can list.
Newton has been home to them. While a good number choose to move to a warmer climate or closer to family, many want to remain living in the city. We have a lot to offer the city but there’s nowhere to go once maintaining a single family home becomes a burden.
I don’t want to move to a place with just seniors. I want to be in a place with kids, teenagers, empty nesters – the full range of the Newton community. This type of housing doesn’t exist in the city outside of the single family neighborhoods. I welcome a development that allows me to remain in Newton in the future.
@Jane – I would to, if the rents weren’t $3000/month! No way I’ll be able to afford that if I can ever afford to retire.
@Meredith-
If elected officials don’t care about an issue it’s not important, no matter how deeply you care about it. They are the only ones that can do anything about it, and they aren’t about to unless you lead them kicking and screaming to make those changes.
Don’t waste your time worrying
about school capacity because the school committee and city council dont, and people who don’t have kids in crowded schools arent wasting a second thinking about it either. People are motivated by self interest. You are an outlier. Revisiting the city charter
to have a timely discussion about updating and increasing city councilor pay and benefits, decreasing Newton’s carbon footprint, or passing a city council resolution declaring a Let’s all Hate on Donald Trump day: Those are all issues you may get some traction on.
Greg, come on. The supply and demand argument re: housing doesn’t work here, because we can’t possibly create supply that exceeds, or even comes close to meeting, demand – which is the only thing that naturally drives down price. That’s not to say we don’t need more housing, and more housing options. We do. But the idea that adding lots of $3000+/month rentals will somehow eventually make Newton more affordable is just wishful thinking. The only way Newton increases affordable housing is by increasing capital-A-affordable housing. Which means we’re on a path to eventually becoming a city with housing for the wealthy and very wealthy, along with some affordable housing for those who qualify.
Tricia, what on earth are you talking about? “The supply and demand argument?” The law of supply and demand is one of the most fundamental principals of economics. It is not in doubt.
A one bedroom apartment in the Avalon building on Needham Street rents for $2500. That is the price that the market will support at this time. If availability of one bedroom apartments in Newton rises, the price will fall. That really is not debatable.
And what is “capital-A-affordable housing?”
We’ll soon see whether housing prices start to go down with 200 units in Newtonville, a possible 800+ units in Upper Falls and another possible 600 units at Riverside.
Sure, supply and demand works in a closed system. Housing isn’t a closed system; there are a multitude of external forces that impact equation. Increasing supply is not THE answer, because there is no single answer to a complex issue. The availability will never rise beyond demand, because the demand is basically limitless (unless, of course, our schools completely tank, which would lessen demand.) And by Capital A affordable housing, I mean subsidized permanently affordable housing.
We’ve had several excellent restaurants in that location and it has plenty of parking as well, but none of them have been able to make a go of it for any length of time. I suspect that in itself creates a level of concern for a potential new owner.
Maybe housing isn’t the answer, but it’s a large parcel of land and quite run down. It would be nice to have something attractive in that spot.
Patrick,
There is one scenario where building ‘more’ units leads to higher prices:
If the increase of units attract certain demographics, ie highly educated, single folks. Then over time, high paying jobs will be relocated closer to these folks increasing transit options and desirability of the area to a point where demand outstrips available land (assuming height restrictions)
I agree that 42 units would be a good fit for that location and that the addition of retail is a good idea. I also think it would be a positive force in increasing transit options.
The supply and demand argument for reducing housing prices has been Greg’s mantra for any development in Newton. I’m sure he knows what Tricia is saying is true – building new housing in Newton isn’t a closed economic system. Supply will never meet demand – unless something catastrophic happens. Then everyone’s housing prices would tank.
With regard to schools in Newton – as a separate issue.
I’m quite concerned that the Mayor’s, including her consultants for Washington Street, plans do not include education or physical schools. In addition, her new budget cuts funding for schools this year and for the next 2 years.
She is pushing for mega units of new housing, but not for the schools. That’s a major disconnect.
The schools on the north side of the city will need to be enlarged or rebuilt – not just Cabot.
There will need to be a new school in the Upper Falls/Newton Highlands area.
These things have to go hand in hand. It will be great to have new young families in this new housing in Newton – they always bring vitality and community participation with them as well as children who get to grow up in Newton as many readers have.
The city wants and needs them to keep things going as others age out but these young families have needs too. They need the schools here to keep up with the new population. They need jobs that keep them close to home.
The mayor understands half of this equation – jobs – but has left out the other – schools. How do we convince her to add education to her goals for new housing?
I absolutely agree that there’s a pretty major disconnect with Mayor Fuller in regards to education. I don’t know what it will take to be listened to and taken seriously. I feel a little like the whole Hello Washington Street campaign exists mostly to give lip service and they’re going to do what they want to do regardless of input.
Not true.
In May the city received a grant to study the very thing Marti and Mary are accusing the mayor of not studying: The fiscal impacts of various development housing proposals across the city.
Lets be honest, school expansion is going to require yet another override
Its in her best interest to wait for her last year in office before bringing this up…
So, rent control and subsidized housing aren’t going to happen (at least not with city dollars). Why are we talking about things like this on this thread?
Choosing when economic principles apply based on your politics is exactly like choosing when laws of physics apply when talking climate.
“…based on your politics”??? Please explain.
I don’t see the schools as a major concern of anyone involved in the development projects. Lip service – yes. But action plan – it’s not part of the discussion.
That was one wordy quote and doesn’t include the words “schools” or “education”.
Paul,
I am the president of the Newton Highlands Neighborhood Area Council. We have not taken any position for or against the proposal. Some area councilors expressed thoughts about aspects of the current proposal which can be seen in the minutes. The Area Council did not discuss the project as a group at our meeting. The purpose of the meeting last week was to have the proponent share their plans with the community and hear feedback and questions from the community. I hope that we were successful in achieving that purpose in a way that was helpful to both the community and the proponent. I do not know if the Area Council will take a position in the future on the project as a whole or aspects of the project.
Nathaniel Lichtin