Councilor Baker is proposing an amendment rendering Garden Remedies permit null and void if the ban passes at the November 6, 2018 special municipal election.
At its upcoming meeting on Wednesday, September 5, the City Council will again take up the special permit amendment, draft board order, to allow Garden Remedies to additionally operate as an adult use marijuana recreational retail store that was chartered by Councilor Swartz at the August 13 full council meeting.
To my knowledge no special election has been scheduled for November 6 to vote on whether or not to have retail marijuana stores in Newton – as Councilor Baker says in his memo. According to the legal department, if the council votes to put the ban question on the ballot, they can choose the November 2018 or November 2019 regular municipal election.
With the P&G Committee working with legal to decide procedures concerning an election with competing questions whose recommendations are planned to be submitted to the full City Council on September 13, according the Council President Laredo, this last minute request from Councilor Baker seems underhanded.
Baker voted to keep sick and dying people from access to their medication after medical marijuana was made legal in Massachusetts. So this is no surprise. For Garden Remedies though, this is a threat to their survival. The economics of the industry changed dramatically with the 2016 vote that fully legalized marijuana. Very few medical-only dispensaries will be able to survive that competitive disadvantage in the longterm.
I’d urge everyone who supports full implementation of the 2016 law to keep their eyes on that prize. The structure and language of the ballot proposal for the upcoming revote is paramount. People who voted “YES” in 2016 have the right to reaffirm that vote in a clear and unambiguous way. Baker and the other prohibitionists on the City Council cannot be allowed to play games with the language of the ballot initiative.
Here is a copy of the opt-out petition:
https://optoutnewton.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Opt-Out-Newton-Petition.pdf
How much flexibility does the council have in changing that language to what Mike is asking for?
I wish I could make the upcoming September Council meeting, it’s going to be fascinating. I hope to catch the replay.
So far we may have for issues:
– Getting the Opt Out ban onto the November 2018 ballot (would bet on that).
– Maybe finally a reveal of the specific language for the Compromise measure (we will see).
– A range of possible efforts to get the Compromise back off the November 2018 ballot (we will also see).
– Figuring out what happens with the Garden Remedies recreational retail license application… now with proposed amendment perhaps to annul the license, which assumes the ban will be on the November 2018 ballot.
[did I miss anything? probably.]
No matter what the outcomes, it looks to be a very active evening.
[BTW I apologize for dropping out of the other conversation mid-thread but ran out of time to follow that thread. For the foreseeable future will probably need to lurk more & post less.]
The prohibitionists haven’t met the signature threshold to get the petition on the ballot by themselves. The City Council could reject it if they were so inclined. But they’ll put opt out on the ballot because the vast majority of that board is anti-cannabis. Regardless, the City Council has a legal obligation to present the ballot question[s] in a fair way. Voters who already approved the 2016 law should have their vote respected, with a clear unambiguous way to reaffirm what they voted for two years ago.
@Marti: The Programs and Services Committee will be discussing #441-18 Set the date for a Special Municipal Election for ballot question(s) related to recreational marijuana facilities at the next Programs and Services Committee meeting on September 6th.
@Mike Striar
You write, “Baker voted to keep sick and dying people from access to their medication after medical marijuana was made legal…”
I doubt that he kept anyone from their medication. If you’re referring just to the pot, then the closest that could be come to what you want to say is, “alternative supplement.”
There’s just not a lot of good evidence that pot does anything of pharmacological significance in any specific way. It makes people happier, relaxed, and – some of them – hungry.
That can be super important – of course – for someone whose sick, who needs to be happier, and more relaxed, and who needs to have an appetite. Can pot improve quality of life in an ill individual? Most absolutely.
Can it treat or cure a pathology?
No. At least, we do not have scientific evidence at this time that it is effective in the direct treatment of any human disease or illness.
I am absolutely a supporter of legal marijuana, since it is a mild and harmless recreational drug. I can not support, however, any statement that does not have quality evidence to support and that statement.
The sad part is that many people have convinced themselves of something that is not true.
Something humans have had a predilection towards for thousands of years, it seems.
I suspect the owner/operators of
Garden Remedies,who live very close to Councilor Baker in Democrat one percenter chestnut hill, will eventually tire of his act and use their money and political muscle to help get someone else elected to his seat. I hope they do, not because I care about pot dispensaries, but it’s clear the his ward is in need of some fresh ideas and new blood. Institutional knowledge is good, obstructionism is not. Some smart, well financed, well connected candidate will eventually roll over him. My guess is that movement is already underway. I hope it is
There is a body of evidence on the efficacy of medical cannabis to alleviate neuropathic pain.
Neuropathic pain is when a nerve is directly, physically damaged, as distinct from transmitting a pain signal from another tissue. Google “neuropathic pain cannabis” on google scholar.
My dad, who suffered from diabetic-related neuropathic pain, was prevented from considering medical cannabis and was instead massively dosed with opiods, a blunt method for dulling all senses. Other forms of neuropathic pain include chronic back pain where nerves are physically impacted/pinched.
Jim, China already has more than 600 cannabis-related patents while the US dithers. Not bad for a substance with no medicinal value?
It may be helpful to note that the Garden Remedies recreational retail marijuana special permit requires sixteen affirmative votes, and some councilors had indicated a concern about voting for a recreational marijuana retail use at the site when a potential ban of such facilities is likely to be on the November ballot for Newton voters to decide. Also, the language of my proposed amendment was carefully prepared by the Newton Law Department after consultation with the attorney for the applicant, Garden Remedies, to assure maintenance of the existing special permit for the current Garden Remedies medical marijuana prescription facility if such a ballot question were to be successful.
Councilor Baker, what special election?
@Nathan Phillips
Nathan,
You write, “There is a body of evidence on the efficacy of medical cannabis to alleviate neuropathic pain.”
So there is. And this is indeed becoming “good evidence.”
Hopefully, as marijuana continues to be normalized in our society, research can proceed that can continue to identify not only specific pharmacological uses for this pot, but identify mechanisms as well, bringing it into our true pharmacopoeia.
As is true for every substance we consider to be a therapeutic medication.
And I also hope, some day, for my argument to be rendered moot by solid evidence for the therapeutic applications of pot, as well as the nebulous “medical marijuana” arguments – for the same reasons.
Amy, I know P&G are discussing setting a special election tomorrow, September 6. Since that discussion hasn’t been taken up yet, presumably, requests for amendments to draft board orders and the docketers of tonight’s marijuana ballot questions, should not be assuming a special election will be held.
That is among the things that stinks about this MJ mania in our City Council. Procedure stinks. All of the Councilors involved in attempting to keep retail sales from being in Newton seem to think they are above the law.
If the decision has already been made, which it has according to Councilor Baker and other Councilors who have docketed MJ ballot question decisions for tonight’s City Council meeting, an Open Meeting violation has been made. At the least.
@Dulles
Dulles,
You responded to me, “China already has more than 600 cannabis-related patents.”
Patents are not, in fact, evidence of efficacy or effect. They do not represent “good evidence.”
In fact, patents are not instruments of science. They are instruments of business.
You also write, “Not bad for a substance with no medicinal value.”
Your statement is confusing: you seem to imply that I wrote – or even implied – that pot is a substance with no medicinal value.
I will direct you to several statements in my comment that you likely deliberately misinterpreted and misrepresent in effort to make your point:
—- “There’s just not a lot of good evidence that pot does anything of pharmacological significance in any specific way.”
—- “Can pot improve quality of life in an ill individual? Most absolutely.”
—- “Can it treat or cure a pathology? No. At least, we do not have scientific evidence at this time that it is effective in the direct treatment of any human disease or illness.”
None of these statements can be successfully interpreted as meaning, “pot has no medicinal value.”
And, I will specifically say that I do not agree with the statement, “pot has no medicinal value.” My opinion is that we do not have adequate evidence to know what pot’s medicinal value is.
Unfortunately, I won’t be able to respond to any replies that attempt to misrepresent what I have written.
Just to set the record straight, Jims questioned whether Lisle Baker had truly voted to keep sick and dying people from access to their medication. That comment of mine was not a matter of opinion. It is a historical fact. Baker voted in favor of a moratorium banning medical marijuana in Newton after it was legalized by voters in 2012. I personally know people with debilitating terminal illnesses who had to travel outside of Newton in order to obtain their doctor prescribed medication.
Jim, please Google “UMass medical cannabis research”. The study confirms (with mice) the biological processes that have worked on humans. i think we agree that evidence of benefit is sufficient to merit further study.
@Mike Striar
Mike, you write, “Just to set the record straight, Jims questioned whether Lisle Baker had truly voted to keep sick and dying people from access to their medication.”
You have fundamentally misread, or deliberately misinterpreted, the entire theme of my comment.
I do not have any information regarding any vote, and I do not make any representation of such information.
The specific element I dispute, to which my entire comment is dedicated, is your use the term “medication” to refer to marijuana in your statement, “Baker voted to keep sick and dying people from access to their medication after medical marijuana was made legal…”
I will repeat what I wrote as my primary thesis against your statement:
“I doubt that he kept anyone from their medication. If you’re referring just to the pot, then the closest that could be come to what you want to say is, “alternative supplement.”
As you can plainly see, I am not referring to a vote. I am referring to your use of the term “medication” in reference to marijuana.
Jims,
You wrote: “As you can plainly see, I am not referring to a vote. I am referring to your use of the term “medication” in reference to marijuana.”
What is medical marijuana if it’s not medication?
@Dulles
In your response to me, you reference research being conducted at UMass. Thank you for that. I consider that to be some pretty exciting research.
And, I absolutely agree with your statement that it’s evidence enough for further study.
May I go one further?
I think there is evidence all over the place that there is great potential for pot to make an impact in human health. There’s a huge amount anecdotal evidence demonstrating that it helps with various anxiety/stress/psychological issues. I think it has huge potential in palliative care – bountiful anecdotal evidence for its ability to modulate pain, increase appetite (extremely important for some who are ill), and improve mood. All things that improve quality of life – all extremely good things.
I think there’s also growing evidence of its potential for treatment in specific illnesses: going beyond simply palliative effects, and actually modulating the course of illness. Components – CBD specifically – are showing all sorts of effects in diseases and syndromes that appear – at this time – to be diverse and unrelated.
This is all very, very good. Until recently, none of this research could even be done, and the critically important questions, “Can pot help? How does it help?” can be properly asked.
And with the changes society is making in how it sees pot, we’re going to be able to ask these questions.
What do I advocate? NIH funding for academic research. FDA programs specific to the evaluation and recommendation of marijuana as a pharmaceutical in human illness.
It’s another tool that nature’s given us – and its potential is just being discovered.
I see no reason to make up stories about it at a time like this!
Thank you for chatting with me, Dulles. I hope you have a swell one.
@Nathan Phillips
Nathan,
My apologies to you (and co-discussants) for double replying, but I was bothered by an omission from my reply to you: you related your personal experience regarding your father’s illness and his experience. I was honored that you shared it, and respect such a personal and difficult experience. I am saddened: I know that your father’s story is not uncommon, and that many suffer with similar stories.
I will keep what you shared in mind: it informs my thinking, and modulates my further contributions.
Good day to you.
I’m curious. Do folks think Garden Remedies should be able to operate in Newton if MJ stores are not approved here after a vote?
If the “no” vote passes, it is completely unfair to the Newtonville community for Garden Remedies to be the ONLY store in Newton.
So, as much as I have no problem with the store, or with the sale of MJ, no way does one store in my village get a monopoly on sale of a restricted product for the entire city.
I’m not trying to be a pain here, and I get that there are larger issues at work, but we can’t just have ONE store in Newton. I’m not against MJ sales, but concentrating them in one neighborhood is the definition of poor planning.
Am I missing something?
So
I should report that my amendment passed the Council unanimously tonight with the final vote postponed until the 17th. Also Garden remedies submitted a letter including support for my amendment.
@fignewtonville
You write, “Do folks think Garden Remedies should be able to operate … if MJ stores are not approved here…?”
As one of the folk, I can answer for myself: “Of course: why shouldn’t it?”
You also write, “If the “no” vote passes, it is completely unfair to the Newtonville community for Garden Remedies to be the ONLY store in Newton.”
That opinion is offered completely without support. I can not think of a logical argument demonstrating that there is any inequity to Newtonville – positive or negative – by the presence of Garden Remedies, regardless of the conditions assumed. Can you offer a demonstration of the “unfairness?”
I can also report anecdotally that I have neither observed nor perceived any change or impact whatsoever to our neighborhood in the several years G.R. has been operating in its present location.
I do not completely understand the remainder of your argument, though it is clear that your concern focuses around whether there are none, one, or more than one shops in Newton.
Hi Jims:
Let me try and be a little clearer (or at least attempt to be clear).
1) I have no issue with unlimited or a reasonable number of pot shops in Newton.
2) If we limit pot shops to just one shop, that one shop basically has a local monopoly on a restricted product. That will mean a large amount of extra customers/traffic for the one pot shop in town. GR is not set up for such “success”.
3) I have no issue with GR as it exists now. I’m local and I’m walking by their shop daily. But it really doesn’t mean all that much if you change the underlying conditions of the market. The fact that as a medical pot shop they haven’t been an issue for the neighborhood is a good fact. But it changes if recreational pot is approved for that location. And it changes even more if GR is the only shop. A business servicing 10 customers an hour is barely noticed. A business servicing 100 customers an hour is a much larger business entity.
4) Again, I have no issue with pot or pot shops. But GR was opened as a medical pot shop. I understand the need for them to sell recreational pot if they aren’t going to go out of business. But as a local resident, I didn’t sign up for the only pot shop in town. As much as I usually think arguments about parking/traffic are not well thought out, if you make this the ONLY place to buy pot in a many mile radius, this is no longer logical for that location. If that market is spread out between 3 or 4 shops, I’ve got no issue with GR, recreational or otherwise.
You can certainly advocate for the sale of pot, but as someone who is trying to think of this logically and locally, the city shouldn’t allow a prior permit to create an unnatural market. So in this case I think I agree with Councilor Baker.
And for the record, my vote would be to allow the sale in Newton fully.
@fignewtonville
Thanks very much for responding to me. I appreciate your interest in clarifying; any failures to understand what you wrote are likely on myself.
On your first point, we’re in accord.
You second point refers to a hypothetical possibility, poorly constructed. It is as likely that none of those problems described in point two would be realized.
It is also difficult to understand your second point given that we do not need to rely on guesses or hypotheticals: G.R. has been one shop, that [basically] has a local monopoly on a restricted product. And it has not resulted in a large amount of extra customers/traffic.
I would counter that there is a commercial entity in our neighborhood responsible for a large amount of customers far in excess of any other local business, during non-business hours, causing not only tremendous parking issues, but also real and immient traffic danger, but we do not seem to have a problem with them.
In regard to your third and your fourth points: I’m sorry, but the detail and concern shown by this point – to some extent – bores me. I’m not trying to be insulting to you, Fignewtonville, but to truly make a point: it’s well beyond what I, personally, would ever find myself worrying about. Also, the question was settled, years ago: our society isn’t that worried about pot.
And pot shops – sure to be disruptive at first – will, I am sure, integrate in to their neighborhoods, just as things always have. Or they won’t – but it’s not really a question any more of trying to come up with more and more rationalized arguments to stop what’s happening.
I can promise you this: no matter if it’s one shop or eight, neither Newton – nor any other community – is going to be overrun with potheads.
Quite simply, they’re already here, and they are us.
I’m grateful that we spoke further. I hope my debate style isn’t taken as personal attack.
@ Gail Spector
Gail,
In regard to my earlier comments, “What is medical marijuana if it’s not medication?”
While I stress that I have extensively discussed the topic in earlier comments, I will offer in summary that “medical marijuana” is just “marijuana.” You’re just calling it something different in order to insinuate that it is something it is not – or, more accurately – to insinuate that it is something that we can not actually say it is.
Please refer to my earlier comments and discussion with other participants for discussion about the medical potentials of marijuana, and why it’s really not time to call pot a “medication.”
@Jims: I understand that the product does not change with its classification but there are some people who only use marijuana as a medical treatment. It’s a legal medicine to them.
@Jims– You and I have essentially the same position on the principal issue at hand. But I’m going to strongly disagree with you about the medical efficacy of cannabis. While I’m sure there are unsubstantiated claims about cannabis, it is a highly effective anti-nausea medication. Which is why it’s prescribed to so many chemotherapy patients by doctors.
Without knowing it, you’ve triggered several people who have had family members who needed medical cannabis to alleviate pain and/or nausea. I’d suggest that you move on from this line of discussion. I know you didn’t mean any harm.
@Mike Striar
You make a good point, and an illustrative one: pot’s anti-emetic effect is observed, and is accepted by the medical community as a valid use for pot. This effect has been evaluated and confirmed in multiple academic, peer-reviewed studies.
Pot’s use in medicine is becoming more common – as I think it should. Increasing research into pot’s medicinal effects will no doubt further identify how it can be medically useful.
As I have mentioned elsewhere – as the medical potential of pot is put to the same analytical and critical evaluation of our greater pharmacopeia, I believe it will continue to find beneficial application.
As it moves from the realm of unqualified, alternative therapy, to an examined and understood regular medicine, and we begin to understand better its biochemical effects (helpfully illuminating aspects of biochemistry we didn’t yet understand), we have exciting times to look forward to.
Good day to you, Mike.