I posted this as a comment to another thread but thought that perhaps it would be better as a full blog post.
The economics of car travel are changing, and with them is the concept that if you want to get where you want, when you want, you need to own a car. Not only is it no longer the only way, in many cases going without it may be the cheaper way.
Before you pooh-pooh that idea, the math is startling. Take this blog post for example: https://techcrunch.com/2014/09/01/when-does-uber-become-cheaper-than-owning-a-car/
Crunching the numbers and taking everything into account, including opportunity cost, parking tickets, everything, the author determined that owning a car and driving it everywhere would cost $12,744 per year as compared to $18,115 per year to exclusively use Uber for transportation. This is assuming you drive the average amount per year (and its based on LA numbers).
The threshold that study found is that if you travel less than 9,481 miles per year, it is cheaper to use Uber.
This information isn’t part of the widespread conscience of our country right now, but I expect it to become far more prevalent over the next decade. Maybe it’s time you considered whether you should ditch the car.
I find it specious and annoying that parking tickets are included in the cost analysis. They are almost completely avoidable and many of us manage to go years at a time without getting any.
Growing up in Manhattan, we were fine without a car. Same as a college student living in Boston, Brookline, and Cambridge.
As a parent, I definitely needed a car. My son’s activities weren’t T accessible, nor were his doctors, and I’m physically unable to do shopping by bike. These days I need to drive to work because I don’t have the physical energy to do the 3/4 mile walk from the T stop to work.
I applaud those who can manage commuting and shopping solely by bike, foot, and mass transit. I would like to see more done to support public transit and have drivers pay the full cost of driving (higher gas tax to support repairing roads and bridges.) I have very mixed feelings about using Uber, since I think it’s exploitative of the drivers.
Agree with everything that mgwa said. More support of public transit at the state level is essential. Definitely not a fan of Uber for the same reasons as mgwa, but that’s a detail.
We have to be realistic. Who here is really willing to give up his/her car? I haven’t driven into Boston for years because it’s much more convenient to take the T., but for grocery shopping, errands, getting to work, etc. I just can’t imagine not having a car.
I have not owned a car in 8 years. My wife and I live just fine in Newtonville. It meant we were very picky in choosing our apartment based on her job since my bike commute was more flexible. We don’t have kids, but even if we did I don’t imagine many trips that could not be solved with zipcar or taxi/uber. That all said we are young and physically able, we use transit a lot and more if it would allow us to do more for sure. However for most people replacing a car with zipcar is very doable if you live near zipcar spots. It is not for everybody for sure, but it is for far more than might seem obvious. We also need to encourage more car-free households because they guarantee business to our local business districts. And to the folks that say we need more transit, I hope you take what we have currently because the only way we get more is to increase use of what we have (even if it is somewhat limited).
I have 1st hand experience with this. I gave up my car 5 years ago and can report that it is very doable in Newton. It may not work for everyone, but in my case, I have been able to combine resources to cover any situation. In my case my partner has a car that I can use evenings and weekends when he is not working. I also can do 75% of my work from home. When I do need to travel, I take busses, trains, rent cars, uber, and walk. Now all that said, I did just buy a new car TODAY because my work now requires that I live on Cape Cod a few days per week. But I think a lot of people could do it sucessfully. Initially I did it so I could recover from a business failure, but as I became used to it, I really enjoyed not having the cost and responsbility of a car. For those who say they couldnt do it … Its amazing what you can live without when you dont have a choice.
@mike ciolino – you just admitted that you haven’t lived in a carless household. You gave up your personal car to become a 2-person, 1-car household which is not the same thing at all. This is an important difference, given that this discussion is an offshoot of one where there was a proposal that a development have 0 parking spots.
mgwa – I think the discussion is a bit wider than that. mike’s telling about giving up one of his two cars. Johns talking about having no cars. They’re both talking about how the current Newton norm (2+ cars per household) isn’t necessarily a requirement of living in Newton, as some folks would suggest.
It just got this two car family thinking about the possibilities.
We downsized to one car about 10 years ago, and with bikes and commuter rail, green line & zipcar near by, our family of four gets around just fine.
We bought a house close to the end of the Green line and a 5 minute walk to work. I thought I would walk to work and I do. It was a great decision.
Regarding government funded public transportation, I almost never use the Green line, and I have only seen someone my neighborhood use the Green line once. It is too slow. It just does not work.
Up until the end of May, I was working out of Northeastern. Using public transportation to travel from Boston College to Northeastern is very difficult. Uber Pool allowed me to make the trip for about $8 each way, while giving me the option to start walking and catch an Uber during my walk. I don’t understand why anyone would drive downtown for work and pay for parking when you can Uber, and check emails or read the paper on the way.
What the future of public transit? I don’t think the solution is going to be bureaucratic. I love Uber, but if Uber is not around in 10 years (assuming it has not been regulated out of business) that is a good thing, because it means that some entrepreneur invented something better.
We have two cars. My car is seldom used. We have two kids with a lot of activities. The schedules can be very tight. Given this, I don’t think we will be able to manage without cars for a while.
We are a two car family very close to the train. Hubby and I work in the burbs without
Public transportation. Our teen won’t get his own car when he gets his license. He takes the bus to
School and I love the late bus options.
Recently we have not taken the train to doctor appointments because of the unreliability of the train. I left
90 minutes to get from Elliott to MGH last year and I was late! And it happened a second time.
I think the MBTA has really gotten unreliable and in order for my family to make to hospitals on time
I need to drive.
Our weekend trips to the north end and Harvard Square are always by train but I have more time
To wait for a broken train on a Sunday afternoon.
I agree with you newton mom, the unreliability of our public transit is a huge barrier to going carless. It is the only reason I have a car right now.
I really wish the state would invest in modern transportation infrastructure, but I unfortunately think that’s at least a decade away.
When I moved to Newton 23 years ago I was without a car and was working in Cambridge. My wife was in central mass so I had access to a car on weekends and some evenings. This was before working at home was an option and long before Uber and smart phones. With buses and the green line in my back yard I managed well until my job moved to the growing tech corridor around 495. My new company was about a twenty min walk from the commuter rail station but going west in the morning meant working in the office from 10am to 3pm, I was working 6 – 7 days a week, never fewer than 10 hours so mass transit was not an option. I really missed reading two novels a week on the T but got a car to get to work.
There are two realities in my mind. Access to a car is critical in our culture but one or more owned cars per person is now more of a convenience.
With respect Jerry, I think it is you who finds this a discussion about the “current Newton norm (2+ cars per household).” I don’t agree.
I agree with mgwa. The statistics used by a blogger are strictly a comparison between a vague estimate with no variables included, of the costs of one person owning a car in LA vs the cost of using Uber or Uber like apps. The first two posts clearly address the one car issue reasonably stating their understanding that some people, under certain circumstances can live without a car while including reasons some need a car – not 2 cars. John’s comment continues the no-car subject.
Mike changes the subject to 1 car rather than 2 in a young adult household, although his beginning was quite misleading and his ending was with his household now having 2 cars. Nathan has one car and Jeffrey has two even though they take advantage of several means of transportation.
The thread is titled “Do you really need to own a car?,” includes statistics from LA stating owning a car may be more expensive than using other means of travel and ends with “Maybe it’s time you considered whether you should ditch the car.” It says nothing about owning one car vs two cars or many variables such as size of households, age of households or differences between households with children and adult households.
Everyone I know, young or old, has at least one car in a household with more than one person. My son lives in Newton but works at Winchester Hospital so he drives, commenting that traffic continues to increase along with his commute. He and his friends take public transportation into Boston or go by bike. They take the train to NYC regularly and walk and bike when they get there. He finds the Green line and buses annoying and slow and the commuter rail to have too few stops in Newtonville but he uses them anyway. He bikes to all surrounding towns including Cambridge and walks almost everywhere else. He is also younger and fit.
I have a car. I am retired so my schedule is more flexible. I don’t have kids at home. I take public transportation into Boston on a regular basis but I can no longer walk much more than a mile or ride my bike. I will not take Uber, not just because I am older and it is new to me or because I do not feel safe as some younger people suggest but because I too have both ethical and legal objections shared by many. As for the statistics, I paid for my car, insurance with an excellent driving record, keeping the mileage around 12,000 miles annually and being over 60 is much less costly, no tickets, rarely paying much for parking, etc. so my annual cost is no where near the one stated. Eventually I will switch to one without a combustion engine. I agree the gas tax should be raised substantially. I drive to many places including Tanglewoods, Vermont, Maine and Connecticut often.
My point is that different folks need different options. There is no one size fits all solution to transportation. At this time, the no car situation would have to include getting rid of older people, many families with childrenn and basically living in a homogeneous community of fit young professionals.
Just to clarify, I’m not suggesting that everyone should stop driving cars. My wife and I both drive a car because it is the most practical way for us to commute to work.
I simply wanted to provoke a conversation and some thoughtful discussion on the future of car based transportation and the viability of ride sharing as an alternative form of primary transportation.
How many of you reading this grew up without a car or have a comprehensive understanding of what it’s like to have zero access to one? I grew up in Newton so poor that we didn’t have a car nor consistent access to one. Based on my experiences, for a variety of reasons, I get a pretty good laugh when someone like Bryan Barash suggests that we should do away with cars.
@Tom – I grew up in Manhattan without a car and then was carless for my first 6 years living in the Boston/Cambridge area (didn’t get my driver’s license until I was 22). I think I have a good understand of where it is and isn’t feasible to live without a car.
That is exactly why I don’t think expecting a development full of people to be able to live without cars in Newtonville is reasonable or feasible. It was fine living in Manhattan and pretty good living near the nexus of the T system (as long as you didn’t stay out too late, in those pre-Uber days). Its limitations are very problematic for people living in Newton.
@mgwa @marti My initial post was an honest responce to the question “Is realistic that one can live in Newton without a vehicle.”
I think you both made assumptions in regarding our being a 1 car household. Not having my own vehicle for 5 years was my choice, and my ability to use my partners vehicle was strictly if he was not using it.
Given that use of his vehicle was never reliable, my mindset was always to plan for transportation.
I found that the addition of Uber as an option … Along with MBTA Busses, Commuter rail, Green line, Enterprise car rentals, the ability to work at home and walking … I found living without a vehicle in West Newton totally doable and cost effective as long as you learn the intracies of each service. It was the addition of Uber that really made this work for me.
And as far as us being a young adult household? At 53, that assumption was rather satisfying. Thanks
@mike – Touche (can’t figure out how to put an accent on the e)