According to the Washington Post, many fans from Catholic Memorial School shouted alarming accusations at last night’s basketball game vs. Newton North.
This excerpt provides a frightening summary:
The game was held at Newton South High School, where an estimated 100 young men sitting in the student section cheering for Catholic Memorial shouted, “You killed Jesus, you killed Jesus,” according to several witnesses who asked not to be identified.
WTF?
UPDATE: Boston Globe coverage.
Do we have any witnesses on Village 14?
Do we have any witnesses on Village 14?
What about the comments from the Newton fans? Just as bad. When do we teach our kids to root and cheer for our team is different than insulting the opposing team. Both sides are at fault.
What about the comments from the Newton fans? Just as bad. When do we teach our kids to root and cheer for our team is different than insulting the opposing team. Both sides are at fault.
@newton mom: If I understand the meaning of “sausage fest,” it’s crude and immature, but not hateful. I agree that it was out of line though.
@newton mom: If I understand the meaning of “sausage fest,” it’s crude and immature, but not hateful. I agree that it was out of line though.
Sorry, newton mom, but needling the Catholic Memorial contingent about the fact that it’s an all-boys school is NOT “just as bad” as chanting a historically anti-Semitic trope at a high school with a significant Jewish population. Not even close. Nobody, to my knowledge, has ever used “sausage fest” as the justification for a pogrom.
Sorry, newton mom, but needling the Catholic Memorial contingent about the fact that it’s an all-boys school is NOT “just as bad” as chanting a historically anti-Semitic trope at a high school with a significant Jewish population. Not even close. Nobody, to my knowledge, has ever used “sausage fest” as the justification for a pogrom.
I thought Vatican II was supposed to end this “you killed Jesus” crap, not to mention the current pope’s statement about lack of collective guilt. Takes me back to pre-Vatican II times, when kids from the local parochial school chased my brother calling him “Christ killer” and when my mother went to complain to the priest he basically shrugged and said “but you are.”
I thought Vatican II was supposed to end this “you killed Jesus” crap, not to mention the current pope’s statement about lack of collective guilt. Takes me back to pre-Vatican II times, when kids from the local parochial school chased my brother calling him “Christ killer” and when my mother went to complain to the priest he basically shrugged and said “but you are.”
That said, I’m glad to see a different reaction from Catholic Memorial’s administration, who did the right thing and acted quickly.
“Credit to the CM administration absolutely scolding its fans. Made every fan apologize to the Newton North principal just now.”
That said, I’m glad to see a different reaction from Catholic Memorial’s administration, who did the right thing and acted quickly.
“Credit to the CM administration absolutely scolding its fans. Made every fan apologize to the Newton North principal just now.”
Two schools of immense wealth and privilege. They’ll do even better in Trump’s America.
Two schools of immense wealth and privilege. They’ll do even better in Trump’s America.
Hey, nobody’s going to pin Jesus’s death on me, I have an alibi….I wasn’t born, yet.
Tom: I’m sure you were trying to be funny. But you weren’t. Not even a little.
Hey, nobody’s going to pin Jesus’s death on me, I have an alibi….I wasn’t born, yet.
Tom: I’m sure you were trying to be funny. But you weren’t. Not even a little.
WTF, indeed. Especially on the heels of the Day graffiti incidents.
MGWA — in a way, you are right, Vatican II did correct this. To these kids, the “you killed Jesus” mindset has no relevance. They aren’t taught it, they don’t believe it. And unfortunately — and I know I’m going to sound like an old grump here — because “young folks these days” don’t have proper, or seemingly basic, cultural/historic knowledge, they think it’s ancient history. To them, they may as well be chanting “off with her head.” They don’t realize it’s not that old.
I’m glad to hear the CM administration acted quickly. Though apologizing is the least the students should do. I think some other punishment would be appropriate.
Was this not covered locally? Odd to see the Washington Post cover it.
WTF, indeed. Especially on the heels of the Day graffiti incidents.
MGWA — in a way, you are right, Vatican II did correct this. To these kids, the “you killed Jesus” mindset has no relevance. They aren’t taught it, they don’t believe it. And unfortunately — and I know I’m going to sound like an old grump here — because “young folks these days” don’t have proper, or seemingly basic, cultural/historic knowledge, they think it’s ancient history. To them, they may as well be chanting “off with her head.” They don’t realize it’s not that old.
I’m glad to hear the CM administration acted quickly. Though apologizing is the least the students should do. I think some other punishment would be appropriate.
Was this not covered locally? Odd to see the Washington Post cover it.
The ad on this page as I read it is “Sharing the Truth of Jesus.”
Not even close, Chrome.
This was shameful on both sides.
The ad on this page as I read it is “Sharing the Truth of Jesus.”
Not even close, Chrome.
This was shameful on both sides.
Yelling “sausage fest” never started a pogrom – true. The Catholic school students shouting “you killed Jesus” were being anti-Semitic which could lead to violence and they should suffer the consequences.
On the other hand, gay young people commit suicide more than any others and taunting gays has led to murders.
The Newton students yelling “sausage fest” were being homophobic which could instigate violence against gay students. It was not just being crude and immature -kids will be kids. It was used as a SLUR to students at an all boys school. Those kids too deserve to suffer consequences with an apology from Newton North’s principal. And if the story is true, Newton students yelled the homophobic taunt before the Catholic students yelled their anti-Semetic one.
This is a time when a Presidential candidate is not just espousing hatred and violence but is also encouraging hateful speech and actions by his supporters. And when it happens both by him and his supporters the media reports he is fun to watch like a clown in a circus instead of being outraged by his instigating language. That needs to stop.
The Globe sports reporter who covered the game makes no mention of the incident. Neither does the Herald. I do not see a Wicked Local coverage of the game.
At least one person I know who attended the game — and is pretty sensitive to acts of insensitivity — said:
It’s possible that the size of this incident may have been overstated in the Post article. I’m not excusing it, just sharing what we know or don’t know.
And this is important to acknowledge as well.
This unacceptable behavior could have happened in any decade but as others have noticed, one can’t help but see it through the prism of Donald Trump, as he gives haters permission to hate; the incidents at Day Middle School; and this in Brookline yesterday.
Yelling “sausage fest” never started a pogrom – true. The Catholic school students shouting “you killed Jesus” were being anti-Semitic which could lead to violence and they should suffer the consequences.
On the other hand, gay young people commit suicide more than any others and taunting gays has led to murders.
The Newton students yelling “sausage fest” were being homophobic which could instigate violence against gay students. It was not just being crude and immature -kids will be kids. It was used as a SLUR to students at an all boys school. Those kids too deserve to suffer consequences with an apology from Newton North’s principal. And if the story is true, Newton students yelled the homophobic taunt before the Catholic students yelled their anti-Semetic one.
This is a time when a Presidential candidate is not just espousing hatred and violence but is also encouraging hateful speech and actions by his supporters. And when it happens both by him and his supporters the media reports he is fun to watch like a clown in a circus instead of being outraged by his instigating language. That needs to stop.
The Globe sports reporter who covered the game makes no mention of the incident. Neither does the Herald. I do not see a Wicked Local coverage of the game.
At least one person I know who attended the game — and is pretty sensitive to acts of insensitivity — said:
It’s possible that the size of this incident may have been overstated in the Post article. I’m not excusing it, just sharing what we know or don’t know.
And this is important to acknowledge as well.
This unacceptable behavior could have happened in any decade but as others have noticed, one can’t help but see it through the prism of Donald Trump, as he gives haters permission to hate; the incidents at Day Middle School; and this in Brookline yesterday.
I was there, as my son is on the North team. The “sausage fest” and “where are your girls” chants are common, and to my ears taken not as homophobic but poking fun at an all-boys vs co-ed school- some may disagree, but that’s how I have heard them the last several years.
Also common is the CM (& other Catholic schools’) chant “God Loves us Better” and North’s “God Loves us for Free” chants. Crude? Probably. Obnoxious? By design. The “You killed Jesus” chant is unmistakable in how it is intended, however.
What I have witnessed over the years is spirited (sometimes too-spirited) students toeing up to the line but rarely crossing it (with few exceptions, but I don’t want to single out the Brookline student section). When our (North) kids do cross the line, they hear about it- from the school administration right then and there- usually it’s for swearing or throwing something, which is unusual.
We heard the “Jesus” chant prior to the game starting (the players had yet to emerge for final warm-ups), and several parents (and others I’m sure) were shocked. There was no mistaking what we heard. The CM student section was marched to the side of the South gym after the game to apologize to Principal Aronson directly. If there are any more repercussions than that, I can’t predict. But good on the CM administration for at least doing that much.
I was there, as my son is on the North team. The “sausage fest” and “where are your girls” chants are common, and to my ears taken not as homophobic but poking fun at an all-boys vs co-ed school- some may disagree, but that’s how I have heard them the last several years.
Also common is the CM (& other Catholic schools’) chant “God Loves us Better” and North’s “God Loves us for Free” chants. Crude? Probably. Obnoxious? By design. The “You killed Jesus” chant is unmistakable in how it is intended, however.
What I have witnessed over the years is spirited (sometimes too-spirited) students toeing up to the line but rarely crossing it (with few exceptions, but I don’t want to single out the Brookline student section). When our (North) kids do cross the line, they hear about it- from the school administration right then and there- usually it’s for swearing or throwing something, which is unusual.
We heard the “Jesus” chant prior to the game starting (the players had yet to emerge for final warm-ups), and several parents (and others I’m sure) were shocked. There was no mistaking what we heard. The CM student section was marched to the side of the South gym after the game to apologize to Principal Aronson directly. If there are any more repercussions than that, I can’t predict. But good on the CM administration for at least doing that much.
Sorry, long-time North parent, couldn’t help the Brookline rivalry spilling into my account. Mea culpa.
Sorry, long-time North parent, couldn’t help the Brookline rivalry spilling into my account. Mea culpa.
Greg, I too was a little curious that the Globe and Herald didn’t mention it. The ESPN story had nothing about it but perhaps a non-game story will follow. The TAB may do something, I don’t know, but their story turnaround for these events tends to be a little slower.
As for the Post getting wind of this, I have no idea how that happened (wasn’t me!).
@Doug: I’ve worked with high school sports stringers (almost always freelancers) during my years at the TAB, The Herald and Dallas Morning News. They are generally a breed onto themselves and many wouldn’t necessary recognize a news story when it happens right in front of them. (I used to jest that some of these guys would probably walk over a dead body on the way to a locker room and never think to mention it.)
Greg, I too was a little curious that the Globe and Herald didn’t mention it. The ESPN story had nothing about it but perhaps a non-game story will follow. The TAB may do something, I don’t know, but their story turnaround for these events tends to be a little slower.
As for the Post getting wind of this, I have no idea how that happened (wasn’t me!).
@Doug: I’ve worked with high school sports stringers (almost always freelancers) during my years at the TAB, The Herald and Dallas Morning News. They are generally a breed onto themselves and many wouldn’t necessary recognize a news story when it happens right in front of them. (I used to jest that some of these guys would probably walk over a dead body on the way to a locker room and never think to mention it.)
Some of the stringers are college students. Not so Brendan Hall and Danny Ventura of the Herald (didn’t see him there but he usually is), but that does not mean they would see that story as a priority, so agree with you there.
Dan Shaughnessy of the Globe was there, in large part I assume because his daughter teaches there and her husband is one of the assistant coaches (and he lives in Newton). Perhaps we’ll see a column from him.
Some of the stringers are college students. Not so Brendan Hall and Danny Ventura of the Herald (didn’t see him there but he usually is), but that does not mean they would see that story as a priority, so agree with you there.
Dan Shaughnessy of the Globe was there, in large part I assume because his daughter teaches there and her husband is one of the assistant coaches (and he lives in Newton). Perhaps we’ll see a column from him.
Doug, the fact that you and others find taunts meaning “you’re gay” as a bad thing just shows how systemic homophobia is in our society. We live in an area where “being gay” is legally protected and where many of us who know that a person who happens to be gay is just like any other person and think others do too. If you are saying something that insinuates that any guy who goes to an all boys school is gay, you are using “being gay” as a bad thing not just suggesting it might be true as a harmless joke – whether you know it or not just means you need to be taught. The gay kids hearing it don’t think it is funny. They hear who they are being used as a slur and, with some thought, we should too.
Calling a straight kid queer as a joke still comes from a bad beginning – just like boys or girls calling a friend a “retard” supposedly in fun, the basis for the “joke” isn’t funny and we teach our kids not to participate. There are many other examples. Our youth need to be taught that accusing someone of being gay as a taunt isn’t funny.
Doug, the fact that you and others find taunts meaning “you’re gay” as a bad thing just shows how systemic homophobia is in our society. We live in an area where “being gay” is legally protected and where many of us who know that a person who happens to be gay is just like any other person and think others do too. If you are saying something that insinuates that any guy who goes to an all boys school is gay, you are using “being gay” as a bad thing not just suggesting it might be true as a harmless joke – whether you know it or not just means you need to be taught. The gay kids hearing it don’t think it is funny. They hear who they are being used as a slur and, with some thought, we should too.
Calling a straight kid queer as a joke still comes from a bad beginning – just like boys or girls calling a friend a “retard” supposedly in fun, the basis for the “joke” isn’t funny and we teach our kids not to participate. There are many other examples. Our youth need to be taught that accusing someone of being gay as a taunt isn’t funny.
I don’t think the “sausage-fest” taunts meant “you’re gay.” That’s all I was saying. I sincerely mean that. I also am sincere in saying the “Jesus” chant can have no other interpretation.
I don’t think the “sausage-fest” taunts meant “you’re gay.” That’s all I was saying. I sincerely mean that. I also am sincere in saying the “Jesus” chant can have no other interpretation.
Tweet from @EvanMAllen to a NNHS senior who was in the game.
“I’m with the Globe and writing about what happened yesterday — could you call me at 617-929-3365?”
So perhaps an article will be forthcoming.
Tweet from @EvanMAllen to a NNHS senior who was in the game.
“I’m with the Globe and writing about what happened yesterday — could you call me at 617-929-3365?”
So perhaps an article will be forthcoming.
Meanwhile, back on topic, the Globe did cover the chants in question:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/03/12/catholic-memorial-students-chant-anti-semitic-taunts-newton-basketball-game/SYNt0ozzZm84DiRoSmMRMM/story.html
ETA: WCVB as well: http://www.wcvb.com/news/fans-of-catholic-memorial-chanted-you-killed-jesus-to-newton-north-fans-during-game/38480900
Meanwhile, back on topic, the Globe did cover the chants in question:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/03/12/catholic-memorial-students-chant-anti-semitic-taunts-newton-basketball-game/SYNt0ozzZm84DiRoSmMRMM/story.html
ETA: WCVB as well: http://www.wcvb.com/news/fans-of-catholic-memorial-chanted-you-killed-jesus-to-newton-north-fans-during-game/38480900
Jonathan Dame of the TAB tweeted an image of the CM administration’s response:
https://twitter.com/JDameTAB/status/708739662114848768/photo/1
Jonathan Dame of the TAB tweeted an image of the CM administration’s response:
https://twitter.com/JDameTAB/status/708739662114848768/photo/1
Marti:
With all due respect, I don’t think you understand what sausage fest means. The phrase has been around for a long time, and I’ve never heard it used to be anti-gay. Ever. I’ve always heard it used to mean an event with no women at it. If you look it up at the urban dictionary, clearly the currently young and hip look at it the same way. Nothing comes up when you google the phrase combined with slur or homophobic.
I’m personally connected to the LGBTQ community in question in various ways, and I share the desire to eliminate LGBTQ bullying and hate speech. I would be the first to take offense if I thought it was that. But I really truly don’t. Neither does anyone else I’ve asked from that community. There is way too much hurtful speech and actions directed at LGBTQ young folks. But every off-color remark is not hate speech. I understand your reaction, but just disagree with it I guess.
Now it WAS crude. And inappropriate. And not very inventive as a chant. The Cameron Crazies they are not.
I did however appreciate the “G-d loves us for free” chant. That made me chuckle.
The Newton TAB’s story on the game was just a sports story. No mention of any incidents.
Marti:
With all due respect, I don’t think you understand what sausage fest means. The phrase has been around for a long time, and I’ve never heard it used to be anti-gay. Ever. I’ve always heard it used to mean an event with no women at it. If you look it up at the urban dictionary, clearly the currently young and hip look at it the same way. Nothing comes up when you google the phrase combined with slur or homophobic.
I’m personally connected to the LGBTQ community in question in various ways, and I share the desire to eliminate LGBTQ bullying and hate speech. I would be the first to take offense if I thought it was that. But I really truly don’t. Neither does anyone else I’ve asked from that community. There is way too much hurtful speech and actions directed at LGBTQ young folks. But every off-color remark is not hate speech. I understand your reaction, but just disagree with it I guess.
Now it WAS crude. And inappropriate. And not very inventive as a chant. The Cameron Crazies they are not.
I did however appreciate the “G-d loves us for free” chant. That made me chuckle.
The Newton TAB’s story on the game was just a sports story. No mention of any incidents.
This led the local news segment of the WBUR news update at 5:00pm. Dr. Fleishman contacted the Anti-Defamation League and said the incident will be discussed with students at North on Monday. Similar to the Globe story Doug links to above.
This led the local news segment of the WBUR news update at 5:00pm. Dr. Fleishman contacted the Anti-Defamation League and said the incident will be discussed with students at North on Monday. Similar to the Globe story Doug links to above.
It’s interesting to note that only three nights earlier Cardinal O’Malley spoke at Temple Emanuel to mark the 50th anniversary of Nostra aetate and to strengthen the bond between the Catholic and Jewish communities. I wasn’t there (worthy of its own V14 blog post) but perhaps someone can comment on the content of that talk. Events like this remind us there’s still work to be done.
It’s interesting to note that only three nights earlier Cardinal O’Malley spoke at Temple Emanuel to mark the 50th anniversary of Nostra aetate and to strengthen the bond between the Catholic and Jewish communities. I wasn’t there (worthy of its own V14 blog post) but perhaps someone can comment on the content of that talk. Events like this remind us there’s still work to be done.
The Archdiocese issued this statement today:
“The Archdiocese of Boston has learned of a troubling incident that occurred on Friday evening at Newton South High School, during a basketball game between Newton North and Catholic Memorial High Schools. The Archdiocese wishes to make clear that the behavior of a number of students from Catholic Memorial at the game is unacceptable.
On Thursday evening of this past week, in observance of the 50th anniversary of the Church’s landmark document that overturned the Church’s history of anti-Jewish attitudes and teaching, Cardinal Sean O’Malley stood in solidarity with hundreds of members of the Jewish community and in affirming the Jewish and Catholic communities’ shared heritage of faith.
We are pleased that the administration of Catholic Memorial took corrective action immediately during and after the basketball game. This incident, while not representative of the school community, presents an opportunity to promote an important learning experience for the students.
We stand ready to assist Catholic Memorial in providing the student body with the awareness education that is needed to ensure that there is no recurrence of these actions or attitudes.”
The Archdiocese issued this statement today:
“The Archdiocese of Boston has learned of a troubling incident that occurred on Friday evening at Newton South High School, during a basketball game between Newton North and Catholic Memorial High Schools. The Archdiocese wishes to make clear that the behavior of a number of students from Catholic Memorial at the game is unacceptable.
On Thursday evening of this past week, in observance of the 50th anniversary of the Church’s landmark document that overturned the Church’s history of anti-Jewish attitudes and teaching, Cardinal Sean O’Malley stood in solidarity with hundreds of members of the Jewish community and in affirming the Jewish and Catholic communities’ shared heritage of faith.
We are pleased that the administration of Catholic Memorial took corrective action immediately during and after the basketball game. This incident, while not representative of the school community, presents an opportunity to promote an important learning experience for the students.
We stand ready to assist Catholic Memorial in providing the student body with the awareness education that is needed to ensure that there is no recurrence of these actions or attitudes.”
Good for all the media outlets to report on the game and not give the incidents any publicity. As for blaming Trump? Really?? Come on, the real blame is on parents of the kids/fans who said the statements. To say Trump is to blame for all the anti-semetic statements in the world is silly. There was anti semetic remarks before trump and there will be antisemetic remarks after. He has no power over us unless you relinquish power over to him. All he is, is a politician trying to become president.
Oh Tom. Not surprised but you continue to miss the point. No one is saying that Donald Trump was directly responsible for that chant that evening. However, in an environment where the presumptive Republican nominee is encouraging hate speech (and appears to have many followers who agree) it’s especially important that CM administrators, the Archdiocese and yes parents and the rest of us speak out.
Good for all the media outlets to report on the game and not give the incidents any publicity. As for blaming Trump? Really?? Come on, the real blame is on parents of the kids/fans who said the statements. To say Trump is to blame for all the anti-semetic statements in the world is silly. There was anti semetic remarks before trump and there will be antisemetic remarks after. He has no power over us unless you relinquish power over to him. All he is, is a politician trying to become president.
Oh Tom. Not surprised but you continue to miss the point. No one is saying that Donald Trump was directly responsible for that chant that evening. However, in an environment where the presumptive Republican nominee is encouraging hate speech (and appears to have many followers who agree) it’s especially important that CM administrators, the Archdiocese and yes parents and the rest of us speak out.
I was at temple Emanuel on Thursday and it was a great event.
He spoke about the Nostra Aetate and anti Semitism.
To have this happen the next day was shocking.
I was at temple Emanuel on Thursday and it was a great event.
He spoke about the Nostra Aetate and anti Semitism.
To have this happen the next day was shocking.
All the terms used were derisive, all the terms were used that way, and certainly, none of the terms met the threshold of decency. I think it’s great that the Newton students didn’t start aynthing, or maybe they didn’t mean to start anything, but no matter, they have no soul searching to do.
All the terms used were derisive, all the terms were used that way, and certainly, none of the terms met the threshold of decency. I think it’s great that the Newton students didn’t start aynthing, or maybe they didn’t mean to start anything, but no matter, they have no soul searching to do.
The incident was covered at some length (for local news) on Channel 7 last night, complete with video from the game. Makes you wonder where’s all this “political correctness” that has supposedly taken the fun out of being a red-blooded American. The adults involved seem to have acted quickly to clean up the mess, but they bear much responsibility for the underlying ignorance. (And no, I’m not talking about the “sausage” chant, which Channel 7 didn’t even mention. Teenagers giggling at sexual innuendo is, for better or worse, normal. Giggling at anti-Semitism not so much.) It’s one thing to suppress certain kinds of behavior, quite another to explain why. Our six-year-old grandson told us last weekend that at his school it’s forbidden to call a task “easy.” Why? Because that hurts classmates for whom it isn’t. Looks like the adults responsible for these high school kids’ moral formation need to work harder at the “because” part of their education.
The incident was covered at some length (for local news) on Channel 7 last night, complete with video from the game. Makes you wonder where’s all this “political correctness” that has supposedly taken the fun out of being a red-blooded American. The adults involved seem to have acted quickly to clean up the mess, but they bear much responsibility for the underlying ignorance. (And no, I’m not talking about the “sausage” chant, which Channel 7 didn’t even mention. Teenagers giggling at sexual innuendo is, for better or worse, normal. Giggling at anti-Semitism not so much.) It’s one thing to suppress certain kinds of behavior, quite another to explain why. Our six-year-old grandson told us last weekend that at his school it’s forbidden to call a task “easy.” Why? Because that hurts classmates for whom it isn’t. Looks like the adults responsible for these high school kids’ moral formation need to work harder at the “because” part of their education.
The chants from the CM students were reprehensible and unacceptable in every way. I’m happy to hear that CM and the Archdiocese has been forthcoming in denouncing this despicable behavior.
The chants from the Newton students were unacceptable as well. Imagine a group of students chanting unprintable expletives about girls’ to girls at a high school event – we’d see such behavior as clearly unaceeptable. If as Doug said that that particular chant is common, Newton has some work to do and I’m sure that will happen.
The chants from the CM students were reprehensible and unacceptable in every way. I’m happy to hear that CM and the Archdiocese has been forthcoming in denouncing this despicable behavior.
The chants from the Newton students were unacceptable as well. Imagine a group of students chanting unprintable expletives about girls’ to girls at a high school event – we’d see such behavior as clearly unaceeptable. If as Doug said that that particular chant is common, Newton has some work to do and I’m sure that will happen.
I’m not saying that sausage fest is a delightful term – but all it means is a gathering or party of mostly men. It does not have any other connotations in terms of the gay community. The term sausage fest is not on the same level of antisemitism. Not even close.
I’m not saying that sausage fest is a delightful term – but all it means is a gathering or party of mostly men. It does not have any other connotations in terms of the gay community. The term sausage fest is not on the same level of antisemitism. Not even close.
What Rachel said- if it did have that connotation, it would have been banned years ago.
One thing that made me curious in the CM statement was the quote that they had been the “target of hurtful chants.” If they are referring to the “where are your girls” and sausagefest stuff, that is pretty lame, as discussed by some of us above, and detracts from the statement. If there have been things that sink to the “You killed…” chant, that would be different. Even then, throwing in a “we’re victims too” sentence struck an odd note with me.
What Rachel said- if it did have that connotation, it would have been banned years ago.
One thing that made me curious in the CM statement was the quote that they had been the “target of hurtful chants.” If they are referring to the “where are your girls” and sausagefest stuff, that is pretty lame, as discussed by some of us above, and detracts from the statement. If there have been things that sink to the “You killed…” chant, that would be different. Even then, throwing in a “we’re victims too” sentence struck an odd note with me.
It’s possible that the “where are your girls?” and “sausagefest” comments come across differently than you think they do. The students may hear them as intimations that they are gay. While many of us don’t think being called gay should be an insult, it is certainly felt that way to adolescent boys.
I would like the MIAA to come out against chants that characterize the opponents in any way – let’s stick to cheering on our own teams rather than calling insults at opponents.
It’s possible that the “where are your girls?” and “sausagefest” comments come across differently than you think they do. The students may hear them as intimations that they are gay. While many of us don’t think being called gay should be an insult, it is certainly felt that way to adolescent boys.
I would like the MIAA to come out against chants that characterize the opponents in any way – let’s stick to cheering on our own teams rather than calling insults at opponents.
Anti Antisemitism is Anti Antisemitism. As a practicing Catholic – I am Beyond Appalled as to what CM did. I was there and still cannot believe how bad this was.
The MIAA – Should have escorted the CM fan students out of the game that night and should not allow the student Fans to attend tomorrow nights game. Anything less shows that CM and the MIAA did not understand that gravity of CMs chant.
What are they teaching them at CM???
I agree with Doug – they are trying to twist this around that they said that killing chant based on the NNHS chants which were NOT to the level of Antisemitism which is what the CM students did.
Anti Antisemitism is Anti Antisemitism. As a practicing Catholic – I am Beyond Appalled as to what CM did. I was there and still cannot believe how bad this was.
The MIAA – Should have escorted the CM fan students out of the game that night and should not allow the student Fans to attend tomorrow nights game. Anything less shows that CM and the MIAA did not understand that gravity of CMs chant.
What are they teaching them at CM???
I agree with Doug – they are trying to twist this around that they said that killing chant based on the NNHS chants which were NOT to the level of Antisemitism which is what the CM students did.
I’m appalled and troubled that something this reprehensible was uttered at all, but particularly that it came from the mouths of people so young. These folks and even older millennials were the last generation I thought would spout something like this ancient and profane, or even to know enough about the lie and its vile record through history to do so. It’s so painful at so many different levels. Despite all this, I think the response and the promised follow up are heartfelt and encouraging and would not have happened so expeditiously when I was a kid.
I grew up in Newton and went to Saint Philip Neri in Waban well before Vatican 2. While I never heard anything like this from the altar or in religious classes, I did run into adults who fervently believed it to be true. It didn’t make any sense to me, but I didn’t fight back because we were taught never to argue with adults under any circumstances. I’m glad that it didn’t have all that much depth or salience in the Newton I grew up in because I was attending Weeks Junior High and beginning to make friends and school project teammates with some of the Jewish kids there. Of course, I never brought this issue up with any of them. Anyhow, most of this was relegated way to the back burner when our prayers were directed to the conversion of Russia during the early 50’s.
We generally laughed at those who went way overboard with their faith, and particularly those who were outright fanatics about it. There was one poor fellow at Saint Philip’s who attended daily mass, 4 masses on Sunday, and every novena and special prayer service the Church offered. He really harped on his belief that most of us were going to Hell which, to say the least, was a bit disconcerting to my young mind. The pastor finally told him to cool it. There was another character we nicknamed “Saint Anthony”. He lived in our neighborhood, but he was a fixture in Boston selling religious tracts, and he used to drag a heavy cross around Boston every Good Friday. But as off the wall as they two characters were, I never heard either disparage Jews.
I’m appalled and troubled that something this reprehensible was uttered at all, but particularly that it came from the mouths of people so young. These folks and even older millennials were the last generation I thought would spout something like this ancient and profane, or even to know enough about the lie and its vile record through history to do so. It’s so painful at so many different levels. Despite all this, I think the response and the promised follow up are heartfelt and encouraging and would not have happened so expeditiously when I was a kid.
I grew up in Newton and went to Saint Philip Neri in Waban well before Vatican 2. While I never heard anything like this from the altar or in religious classes, I did run into adults who fervently believed it to be true. It didn’t make any sense to me, but I didn’t fight back because we were taught never to argue with adults under any circumstances. I’m glad that it didn’t have all that much depth or salience in the Newton I grew up in because I was attending Weeks Junior High and beginning to make friends and school project teammates with some of the Jewish kids there. Of course, I never brought this issue up with any of them. Anyhow, most of this was relegated way to the back burner when our prayers were directed to the conversion of Russia during the early 50’s.
We generally laughed at those who went way overboard with their faith, and particularly those who were outright fanatics about it. There was one poor fellow at Saint Philip’s who attended daily mass, 4 masses on Sunday, and every novena and special prayer service the Church offered. He really harped on his belief that most of us were going to Hell which, to say the least, was a bit disconcerting to my young mind. The pastor finally told him to cool it. There was another character we nicknamed “Saint Anthony”. He lived in our neighborhood, but he was a fixture in Boston selling religious tracts, and he used to drag a heavy cross around Boston every Good Friday. But as off the wall as they two characters were, I never heard either disparage Jews.
All the posters on here pretending that the Newton North students’ chants directed at the CM students didn’t entail homophobia should be ashamed of themselves. BOTH schools should be embarrassed of their behavior and need serious sensitivity training.
Maybe this hypocrisy starts at the top of the Newton Public School system. Per Wicked Local, Superintendent Fleishman responded swiftly and STRONGLY when the source of the anti-Semitism was external. But when Day Middle School principal Brian Turner did NOTHING when alerted multiple times to multiple anti-Semitic incidents at his own school, Fleishman made excuses and showed support for Turner. Worse, when asked if Turner will face consequences for not following clearly defined protocols, Fleishman put the onus on HR by calling it a personnel issue. Hypocritical to say the least. Pathetic is another word that comes to mind.
Why isn’t Fleishman working with an LGBT group to address his own students’ hateful speech?
All the posters on here pretending that the Newton North students’ chants directed at the CM students didn’t entail homophobia should be ashamed of themselves. BOTH schools should be embarrassed of their behavior and need serious sensitivity training.
Maybe this hypocrisy starts at the top of the Newton Public School system. Per Wicked Local, Superintendent Fleishman responded swiftly and STRONGLY when the source of the anti-Semitism was external. But when Day Middle School principal Brian Turner did NOTHING when alerted multiple times to multiple anti-Semitic incidents at his own school, Fleishman made excuses and showed support for Turner. Worse, when asked if Turner will face consequences for not following clearly defined protocols, Fleishman put the onus on HR by calling it a personnel issue. Hypocritical to say the least. Pathetic is another word that comes to mind.
Why isn’t Fleishman working with an LGBT group to address his own students’ hateful speech?
I hope no one took my comment to mean that the chant from the Newton kids was homophobic. It’s not my place to make that judgement. However, I do know that when students chant about a group’s genitalia with the obvious intent of demeaning them, then it needs to be dealt with. I don’t know how or why you expect boys to behave appropriately when you let this kind of thing slide.
CM is dealing with their issues in what appears to be quite forthright manner and now it’s time for Newton to deal with its issues.
I hope no one took my comment to mean that the chant from the Newton kids was homophobic. It’s not my place to make that judgement. However, I do know that when students chant about a group’s genitalia with the obvious intent of demeaning them, then it needs to be dealt with. I don’t know how or why you expect boys to behave appropriately when you let this kind of thing slide.
CM is dealing with their issues in what appears to be quite forthright manner and now it’s time for Newton to deal with its issues.
Thanks for the clarification, Jane.
As for the reference itself, the fact that CM’s own coach (and the ESPN HS Sports Editor too) referred to their star player’s “onions” and “stones” in reference to how well he played under pressure makes me wonder where the line is, who is drawing it, and with what crayon.
Thanks for the clarification, Jane.
As for the reference itself, the fact that CM’s own coach (and the ESPN HS Sports Editor too) referred to their star player’s “onions” and “stones” in reference to how well he played under pressure makes me wonder where the line is, who is drawing it, and with what crayon.
-oh, and @TfN I stand by my interpretation without shame.
ETA- but I’m fine in understanding others disagree.
-oh, and @TfN I stand by my interpretation without shame.
ETA- but I’m fine in understanding others disagree.
Oh, please. “Sausage fest” isn’t a homophobic slur. It’s basically a “you’re not getting any because you go to an all-boys school” taunt. Rude and crude, yes, but not anti-gay. That doesn’t mean I think it’s ok – I think a lot of what comes out of the student sections at h.s. and college games is appalling, and I am NOT easily offended.
Oh, please. “Sausage fest” isn’t a homophobic slur. It’s basically a “you’re not getting any because you go to an all-boys school” taunt. Rude and crude, yes, but not anti-gay. That doesn’t mean I think it’s ok – I think a lot of what comes out of the student sections at h.s. and college games is appalling, and I am NOT easily offended.
I’m obviously in the way minority here. When dealing with this type of situation one needs to look at the totality of the circumstances. The facts are that both teams were playing in the biggest game of the year, for many, the biggest game of their lives. The fans were hyped out to support their team and made comments they knew would “piss” the other team off to throw them off their game. When Larry Bird played Dr. j do you think bird would say nice shot…he would trash talk…thats not to say what was said was fine and there should be some form of teaching moment coming from this, but this wasn’t a bunch of kids with a pillow case over their head lighting up a cross.
I’m Jewish and proud of it. The thing being chanted wouldn’t make the top 10 worse things ever said to me….some from people on this blog. The swastika on the schools is far worse, in my opinion, than the basketball incident. It should be treated as a teaching moment.
@Tom: I’m confident Larry Bird and Magic Johnson’s trash talk was not racist or crossed any other line.
I’m obviously in the way minority here. When dealing with this type of situation one needs to look at the totality of the circumstances. The facts are that both teams were playing in the biggest game of the year, for many, the biggest game of their lives. The fans were hyped out to support their team and made comments they knew would “piss” the other team off to throw them off their game. When Larry Bird played Dr. j do you think bird would say nice shot…he would trash talk…thats not to say what was said was fine and there should be some form of teaching moment coming from this, but this wasn’t a bunch of kids with a pillow case over their head lighting up a cross.
I’m Jewish and proud of it. The thing being chanted wouldn’t make the top 10 worse things ever said to me….some from people on this blog. The swastika on the schools is far worse, in my opinion, than the basketball incident. It should be treated as a teaching moment.
@Tom: I’m confident Larry Bird and Magic Johnson’s trash talk was not racist or crossed any other line.
Doug – I certainly hope CM is explicit with the coach about language he can and cannot use with athletes, but that’s not our issue. This coach’s language shouldn’t be used as justification for unacceptable behavior on the part of our students.
Doug – I certainly hope CM is explicit with the coach about language he can and cannot use with athletes, but that’s not our issue. This coach’s language shouldn’t be used as justification for unacceptable behavior on the part of our students.
Doug – In answer to your question about who draws the line: Newton draws the line for our students and we do it with our own crayon. We have no control over what other communities do.
Doug – In answer to your question about who draws the line: Newton draws the line for our students and we do it with our own crayon. We have no control over what other communities do.
Greg, I wouldn’t be so sure of that, especially Bird.
I was in College in the 80’s, when Bird was playing, and a friend of mine was a huge Larry Bird fan. My friend was Jewish. He went to Fanieul Hall for a Saturday night with some friends and they saw Bird and Scott wedman pounding down some beer, so my friends decided to ask Bird for a picture. He accepted and my friend was the one taking the picture and wanted everything to be perfect so he kept getting everyone to move in the shot. Bird said what are you a Jew just take the picture. Wedman later approached my friends and said excuse Larry he just found he’ll be out for the season due to his back.
He would say anything to get under people’s skin, it wouldn’t surprise me if he used the “N” word. He used Bob woolf as a lawyer because he was Jewish…not exactly the samething, but it’s a form of prejudice.
Greg, I wouldn’t be so sure of that, especially Bird.
I was in College in the 80’s, when Bird was playing, and a friend of mine was a huge Larry Bird fan. My friend was Jewish. He went to Fanieul Hall for a Saturday night with some friends and they saw Bird and Scott wedman pounding down some beer, so my friends decided to ask Bird for a picture. He accepted and my friend was the one taking the picture and wanted everything to be perfect so he kept getting everyone to move in the shot. Bird said what are you a Jew just take the picture. Wedman later approached my friends and said excuse Larry he just found he’ll be out for the season due to his back.
He would say anything to get under people’s skin, it wouldn’t surprise me if he used the “N” word. He used Bob woolf as a lawyer because he was Jewish…not exactly the samething, but it’s a form of prejudice.
The chants were not equivalent. Not. Even. Close. That people in our community can’t understand the difference is a problem of its own.
The chants were not equivalent. Not. Even. Close. That people in our community can’t understand the difference is a problem of its own.
Only if you think there are degrees of slurs. In my opinion, a slur is a slur.
Only if you think there are degrees of slurs. In my opinion, a slur is a slur.
Genocide is more than hurt feelings, Tom.
Genocide is more than hurt feelings, Tom.
@Adam – that’s what the CM kids need to be educated about, because I doubt they connected their chant with genocide. This is not the generations that were brought up being incited to murder the Christ killers.
And from the new thread, it’s clear that the taunts from the Newton kids were perceived as homosexual slurs. And while it should be so, to straight teenage boys that is seen as a terrible accusation.
@Adam – that’s what the CM kids need to be educated about, because I doubt they connected their chant with genocide. This is not the generations that were brought up being incited to murder the Christ killers.
And from the new thread, it’s clear that the taunts from the Newton kids were perceived as homosexual slurs. And while it should be so, to straight teenage boys that is seen as a terrible accusation.
I would be interested to hearing more about what both schools are going to do . . .. .
I would love a joint program where CM students and Newton students do a JOINT volunteer program so that they develop a good working relationship with other students. . . . I would love it if they volunteered at Jewish Family Table and organized the bags of groceries to be delivered or to volunteer at the Greater Boston Food Bank – together. . . . and eat pizza and talk to discover in the end they are all just teens in greater Boston.
I would be interested to hearing more about what both schools are going to do . . .. .
I would love a joint program where CM students and Newton students do a JOINT volunteer program so that they develop a good working relationship with other students. . . . I would love it if they volunteered at Jewish Family Table and organized the bags of groceries to be delivered or to volunteer at the Greater Boston Food Bank – together. . . . and eat pizza and talk to discover in the end they are all just teens in greater Boston.
@Tom: Have you ever been singled out and taunted or beaten up because you’re Jewish? I went to a public elementary school in Syracuse where I was called a “dirty Jew” many times. I was beaten up because the “Jews killed Christ.” It was among the worst things that’s ever been said to me, and I’ve been the recipient of many unkind words.
@Tom: Have you ever been singled out and taunted or beaten up because you’re Jewish? I went to a public elementary school in Syracuse where I was called a “dirty Jew” many times. I was beaten up because the “Jews killed Christ.” It was among the worst things that’s ever been said to me, and I’ve been the recipient of many unkind words.
@Gail, as a Jewish kid in a community with a large Jewish population, it happened once a year, some kid picked the ROLL A PENNY TO A JEW. . . . . it was uncomfortable for me, and I never discussed with my classmates that witnessed it. . . . of course the teacher was never in the room. But it happened once a year for three years, but never did KILL THE JEWS appear on the bathroom wall three times in a year. . . . if it did, it was cleaned up. I am concerned that hate speech is still hate speech, and we haven’t cured it. Never thought I would be discussing three acts of anti semitism in one school with my teenager, then a night hearing the Cardinal followed by the chant of JEWS KILLED JESUS.
I worry about the anti Muslim, the Anti Jewish, the anti-gay slurs. It is all around us. And the adults in the community need to do something now. . . . not just our superintendent, or the CM president. The whole community and country need to act. It won’t get better until we build trust and relationships.
@Gail, as a Jewish kid in a community with a large Jewish population, it happened once a year, some kid picked the ROLL A PENNY TO A JEW. . . . . it was uncomfortable for me, and I never discussed with my classmates that witnessed it. . . . of course the teacher was never in the room. But it happened once a year for three years, but never did KILL THE JEWS appear on the bathroom wall three times in a year. . . . if it did, it was cleaned up. I am concerned that hate speech is still hate speech, and we haven’t cured it. Never thought I would be discussing three acts of anti semitism in one school with my teenager, then a night hearing the Cardinal followed by the chant of JEWS KILLED JESUS.
I worry about the anti Muslim, the Anti Jewish, the anti-gay slurs. It is all around us. And the adults in the community need to do something now. . . . not just our superintendent, or the CM president. The whole community and country need to act. It won’t get better until we build trust and relationships.
It appears CM is banning the students from the Eastern Mass final (fance name for State semifinal) at the Gahdin tonight: http://usatodayhss.com/2016/mass-boys-hoops-playoff-game-descends-into-hate-speech-with-anti-semitic-and-anti-single-sex-chants.
I was hoping that would happen. That’s a real consequence. Along with the conversations being hosted by both schools, I hope folks can move on and grow from it.
Also- go CM, beat Cambridge. I expect nothing less than a state championship from the boys that bested ours on the court.
It appears CM is banning the students from the Eastern Mass final (fance name for State semifinal) at the Gahdin tonight: http://usatodayhss.com/2016/mass-boys-hoops-playoff-game-descends-into-hate-speech-with-anti-semitic-and-anti-single-sex-chants.
I was hoping that would happen. That’s a real consequence. Along with the conversations being hosted by both schools, I hope folks can move on and grow from it.
Also- go CM, beat Cambridge. I expect nothing less than a state championship from the boys that bested ours on the court.
I like Newton Moms idea about putting both sides kids in a volunteer program together so they can learn about one another. Frankly, I think it’s the responsibility of the schools and the parents to do something.
Gail, I have been singled out numerous times because I am Jewish, but I have been singled out several times because I am fat and they both hurt just as much. I know I can change the weight, but it doesn’t give people the power to taunt me over it. You know what, one of the times happened when I was running for Mayor against Mayor Cohen. I was collecting signatures in front of the library and I was campaigning a guy came up and said, “you can’t manage your weight, why would I think you can manage the city?”
That hurt, but you pick yourself up and it’s just words now…no hurt.
I like Newton Moms idea about putting both sides kids in a volunteer program together so they can learn about one another. Frankly, I think it’s the responsibility of the schools and the parents to do something.
Gail, I have been singled out numerous times because I am Jewish, but I have been singled out several times because I am fat and they both hurt just as much. I know I can change the weight, but it doesn’t give people the power to taunt me over it. You know what, one of the times happened when I was running for Mayor against Mayor Cohen. I was collecting signatures in front of the library and I was campaigning a guy came up and said, “you can’t manage your weight, why would I think you can manage the city?”
That hurt, but you pick yourself up and it’s just words now…no hurt.
Doug, we’re not talking about what is more heinous genocide or gay bashing, we’re talking about slurs that end up hurting people. A slur is a slur, in my opinion.
Doug, we’re not talking about what is more heinous genocide or gay bashing, we’re talking about slurs that end up hurting people. A slur is a slur, in my opinion.
Prejudice will always exist and requires us to perpetually educate against its raw ignorance. “It” can happen here. “It” being genocide… It can happen anywhere. It should never be forgotten or minimized. I am proud that so many in Newton have spoken out against the religious affront that CM students chanted last week. I find significance in the fact that both Catholic and Jewish voices have denounced the hateful words of the regurgitated accusation.
That being said…we should also recognize that competition is healthy, while hazing is not. Rivalry teaches camaraderie, while taunting does not. We need to encourage and reward the clever repartee, the intelligent cheer, the sharp wit, and encourage them without “reductio ad absurdum” PC handcuffs. (A kindergarten boy should not be expelled for kissing a kindergarten girl!) Good natured teasing can elevate the sport and actually teach sportsmanship!
Prejudice will always exist and requires us to perpetually educate against its raw ignorance. “It” can happen here. “It” being genocide… It can happen anywhere. It should never be forgotten or minimized. I am proud that so many in Newton have spoken out against the religious affront that CM students chanted last week. I find significance in the fact that both Catholic and Jewish voices have denounced the hateful words of the regurgitated accusation.
That being said…we should also recognize that competition is healthy, while hazing is not. Rivalry teaches camaraderie, while taunting does not. We need to encourage and reward the clever repartee, the intelligent cheer, the sharp wit, and encourage them without “reductio ad absurdum” PC handcuffs. (A kindergarten boy should not be expelled for kissing a kindergarten girl!) Good natured teasing can elevate the sport and actually teach sportsmanship!
While I acknowledge the comments made by the CM fan section were extremely offensive and the comments made by Newton North were distasteful. This issue is getting way to much press and being blown way out of proportion. Kids die everyday due to things like drugs and gang violence. Where is the publicity on these issues which are clearly much more important.
While I acknowledge the comments made by the CM fan section were extremely offensive and the comments made by Newton North were distasteful. This issue is getting way to much press and being blown way out of proportion. Kids die everyday due to things like drugs and gang violence. Where is the publicity on these issues which are clearly much more important.
Right on Fred
Right on Fred