The arguments in opposition to the proposed medical marijuana clinic (and possible retail store) on Route 9 and Eliott Street, are getting more and more, um, creative.
In a TAB article this week (which does not seem to be online) one opponent cited the location’s proximity to a school as an argument against the location — without explaining just how the toddlers attending a Spanish immersion preschool in question will cross six lanes of Route 9 traffic to score their refer.
And then there’s this comment from my friend and former Newton City Councilor Brian Yates, that the proposed location at the site of a former Green Tea resturant, isn’t a strip mall, it’s a “neighborhood retail center.“
Seems like there’s um, creativity on both sides.
Why not add a picture of an unflushed toilet at the Sunoco to drive your point home.
I don’t much care for who gets licenses, long as there are licenses. Nor does it really matter what we call the collection of stores at the intersection of Rt.9 and Elliot street.
What matters is that the license application is for a medical dispensary. Does it meet the set zoning requirements for a medical dispensary? Is it in compliance with other state and municipal requirements and restrictions? Then we’re done here — grant the medical license. If the owners want to apply for recreational in the future that is a separate discussion.
Opt Out Newton has been stating all along it is not opposed to medical. A few months later, it now opposes a medical dispensary license. Between this move and its laying into Garden Remedies, I’d suspect the organization’s moderate facade is falling away and its true intent is coming out — eradicate all cannabis outlets. If that’s OON’s true position, so be it. But the organization should be honest about its intent.
From Wikipedia, for goodness sakes:
“A strip mall (also called a shopping plaza, shopping center, or mini-mall) is an open-air shopping mall where the stores are arranged in a row, with a sidewalk in front. Strip malls are typically developed as a unit and have large parking lots in front. They face major traffic arterials and tend to be self-contained with few pedestrian connections to surrounding neighborhoods.”
So in this case the CVS plaza walks and talks like a duck, as they say.
This strikes me as an odd thing to be concerned about. Just because a term is an accurate description of something, does it mean that all speakers are required to use that specific term? I had no idea that English was so lexically-poor.
Merriam-Webster defines “neighborhood,” “retail,” and “center” as…
Medical marijuana was legalized by the electorate in 2012. The [then] Board of Aldermen placed a moratorium on implementation. Although that moratorium was for one year, the timing ran contrary to the State licensing process and effectively resulted in a 3 year delay for patients seeking medication. Many of those patients had debilitating and/or terminal illnesses that made traveling to dispensaries outside of the city difficult…
Here we are 6 years later and there is still only one medical dispensary in the entire city of Newton. The opponents of medical marijuana are not only irrational, they are heartless. They have demonstrated over and over again that they are willing to turn their backs on sick and dying people. Does anyone think they are going to be more rational about adult-use or so-called “recreational” marijuana?
The elected “leaders” of this city should be ashamed of the way they have obstructed the will of the voters. But many of them are actually proud of themselves, even smug. That’s why compromise should never be on the table with prohibitionists, and why it was a mistake to offer a compromise ballot initiative that now threatens to undermine both the 2012 medical and 2016 adult-use cannabis laws passed by voters…
The way to deal with irrational prohibitionists is not through compromise, but rather through the strength of our convictions, and by supporting full implementation of the laws as intended by a majority of voters.
A letter in today’s TAB argues against a marijuana clinic at this location because it’s near two gas stations.
I am not making this up.
@Greg. I thought you would know. It’s never wise to mix pot with gasoline before lighting up.
The definition of the stores on Elliot Street and Beacon Street is irrelevant to the decisions as to whether either is a proper site for a marijuana shop. The reasonable question is whether or not a shop would make bad traffic problems significantly worse. I would respectfully suggest that the Elliot Street could probably absorb the lesser impact of a medical marijuana clinic but that the greater amount of traffic likely to be generated by a recreational shop would make it significantly more difficult to access Route 9, the CVS, the liquor store, the Laundromat, etc. The Beacon Street site is a major east-west commuter route and near a major elementary school with traffic coming from all directions. It should be evaluated on that basis.
@Brian: I agree 100 percent that the definition of stores is “irrelevant,” which is why I’m surprised YOU raised it!
As for the traffic, I think we all know that if this was a proposed second Cabots Frank Pepes or other business that would also generate a lot, perhaps even more traffic, no one would have lawn signs opposing it and certainly not objecting because it was near two gas stations, or six lanes of traffic away from a preschool or any other phony-baloney argument.
People have every right to oppose this for any reason they want. But they lose credibility when they cite these ridiculous objections: Why not just say, “I don’t want it near me only because I don’t want it near me.”
The statements that the Newton Chief of Police, David MacDonald, gave in his public testimony at the City Council public hearing pretty much echoed what @Brian Yates said above. He thought a medical marijuana store would be fine there, but that he didn’t support a recreational marijuana store at that location because of parking and traffic issues. Since the proposed owners have already expressed their intention to convert to recreational as soon as possible, then it is probably not the best location.
More parking/traffic than the CVS uses? But a recreational store is ok for washington Street?
Seriously, parking/traffic/schools are fine arguments, even good ones. But it is selectively used. No one fights a yoga studio (to use a Newtonville example) that takes a large percentage of parking. This is about the use. Be honest about it.
Also, can someone start a thread about the Hello Washington Street snapshot document? Because that snapshot document seems more focused on changes that will never happen than reality. Maybe that’s just the feedback from our community, and we are all irrational folks with no idea of how expensive big idea cost in the real world. But by my count, there were at least a few hundred million dollars of projects buried in the pretty pictures, with no examples of how anything got paid for.
That’s not a proposal, that’s a wish list unconnected to reality.
Fignewtonville, I had a similar reaction to the Hello Washington snapshot. It seemed so unrealistic that it was almost a frustrating read. I couldn’t believe they included that “yellow line” train route in the document. Way too optimistic.
What is the Hello Washington Snapshot?
What Claire said.
As someone who drives through that Rt9/Elliot intersection on a regular basis in all directions I can tell you this location would be a nightmare with a cop directing traffic as mentioned in their proposal. It is way too close to that intersection to be managed well. Neither the salon or Green Tea seemed to do a ton of business during the day.
Greg/Clair: Hello Washington (the pop up thing about changing washington street) sent out an email to their list describing some of the thoughts/feelings/wishes about the corridor redevelopment.
It was…very future positive.
But this belongs in another thread. Sorry for ruining the vibe/flow/high on this particular thread.
The traffic argument sounds outrageous, given the volume that’s already going through that intersection. @Brian Yates: Were any actual numbers presented? If traffic is any concern, it’s because that entire “neighborhood retail center” is a twisted mess of parking lots and curb cuts that could be redeveloped to something so much more beneficial.
If ever there was a spot for re-development in Newton, this CVS plaza is it. The old South Pacific site ranks close behind. Strip malls by definition are the opposite of the kinds of development Newton wants. Is it a coincidence that these are the locations where the pot shops are locating? I’m not taking a position against them, it just would be a much better sign if they weren’t seeking dilapidated, low rent sites.
@Adam– Medical cannabis license holders are not seeking out low rent sites in Newton. They’re just going where zoning allows. They should be allowed to locate in the exact same zones as liquor stores, but they’re not…
One State licensed grower wanted to buy and renovate the NE Mobile Bookfair building on Needham Street, and turn it into a processing center and retail store. In addition to property taxes the City would have made approximately $1.5M per year through a Community Host Agreement and sales tax. That’s the kind of money the City Council’s reefer madness has cost taxpayers.
“Neither the salon or Green Tea seemed to do a ton of business during the day.”
The Fabu Salon was closed to make way for the dispensary…so not a lot of business there.
Heaven forbid we fill our empty storefronts with businesses that customers actually want to visit! Let’s leave them empty and sit around complaining about how Newton doesn’t collect enough commercial tax revenue while rejoicing that we don’t have much traffic.
@Greg — Fabu was a not an empty store front – it was a thriving business pushed out by the higher potential profit per square ft of an expanded dispensary. Looks like it found a home in Needham though. https://fabu.glossgenius.com/about
@Jack: congratulations, I believe you’ve posted the first comment ever in Village 14 history bemoaning the loss of a beauty salon in Newton.
Also Needham happens to be a great place to do business! No surprise they’d want to be there.
Pointing to an increase in traffic as a reason to stop businesses is just a red herring in most instances. If you just want to drive from point A to point B on a busy street and want to avoid traffic, why not take an alternate route?
Green Tea and Fabu Salon did a booming business. I think people are just getting amnesia because “out of sight out of mind” – the parking lot was always packed, Fabu did a big business, and some customers had to park in the CVS / Anton’s / laundromat area because there weren’t enough parking spaces in the Fabu/Green Tea section. Also, a police officer directing traffic on weekdays from 3:45 pm to 7:45 pm will be a help, not a problem. Why is that any different from the police officer who directs traffic flow at the Whole Foods on Walnut Street / 4 corners? Without the officer’s help, it will end up being a big back up and you will be at the mercy of a driver pausing long enough to let you in or out of the location. The developers have submitted plans for curb cuts, and are also closing a dead cut that is behind the restaurant which was some type of loading zone from a long time ago, even before Green Tea existed. The traffic issues are not going away. Even if a special permit waiver is not granted for a medical mj dispensary, there will be some establishment at that location, and parking, and traffic will be part of the future of the site.
Jo-Louise the entrances to that plaza are all too close to the intersection with Rt9. There is no way an police officer could manage the flow efficiently. The flow of traffic is completely different at WF. There aren’t natural gaps or places to stop the traffic flow by Green Tea. The police officer outside of the Wellesley office park has been the bane of my existence for the past few years when I have needed to travel outside of Newton either down rt 9 or picking up rt 128 on a regular basis closer to 5pm.
Jane would love to take an alternate route but unfortunately there aren’t better ones. I drive after school to activities outside of Newton and the amt of traffic even at 3 in the afternoon is insane. This particular route is typically the best route to cross into Needham to Central Ave (Both Needham St/Highland ave and getting to Kendrick tend to be much, much heavier) if I am heading that way. I also often take Rt 9 to 128 so I frequent the Rt 9/Elliot intersection
Yes, traffic can at time be an issue at that intersection as it can be at dozens of other intersections across the city at different times of the day … but that’s not what we’re really talking about here.
This is a strip mall of commercially zoned property for rent. Under the zoning laws the property owner has the right to rent his property to commercial business, so long as they comply with all city regulations. That same building was rented for years to Green Tea and Sabu who both generated more traffic than the proposed dispensary. Any alternative business that goes in there will generate additional traffic. The other businesses that already exist in that complex already generate substantially more traffic than the proposed dispensary. Despite all that, the ongoing traffic concerns at Elliot and Rt 9 have never inspired such public handwringing, lawn signs, signature collections, public hearings and blog posts.
It should be totally clear to everyone that this is not really about traffic issues. The signs on Elliot St say “stop the pot shop” not “fix the CVS traffic”. If the traffic issue were to suddenly go away because CVS or the gas station closed down, those lawn signs would still remain.
The opponents feel very strongly about this issues and appear to be continuing to collect signatures in an attempt to put a Newton referendum question on the ballot to stop retail sales in Newton. That’s fine. It’s a long arduous effort to get a referendum question on the ballot. I wish them well in their efforts but even if they succeed I’d guess this second Newton-only referendum question will also not gather the support they hope.
In the meantime it should be clear that the traffic issues are merely a smoke screen. The folks behind the proposed pot dispensary have already agreed to do more to address traffic issues at that intersection than all of the other existing businesses in that complex – and nobody is trying to shut those business down.
@Greg — I’ve yet to find a app or online store where I can get a haircut.
@Jack– Don’t worry. The Cannabis Control Commission has stated that they’d like to start allowing home delivery next year. So you’ll be able to get marijuana products delivered at home, which will give you more time to go get a haircut.
I am new to this site.
Is the Mike Striar who keeps commenting to endorse having recreational pot shops Newton the incredibly rich guy who made a fortune promoting rock stars (like Aerosmith) and selling huge tracts of land for casinos?
What happened to the person who wanted to use the former book fair building for a dispensary?
@Brian– They took their money and their jobs to another community. Glad to provide details in a private conversation. I’ll include my @ in case you’d like to follow up privately.
I’m confident the city could bring other interested parties to the table for NE Mobile Bookfair if they took a more proactive approach. I would be willing to help. But no new licensed cannabis grower is going to spend a dime in Newton until the possibility of a ban is expired.
An equal impediment is the so-called “compromise” initiative already slated for the November ballot. That proposal would limit the city to between 2-4 cannabis shops. One already exists. Two more applications are under consideration. If the “compromise” passes, I’d imagine the very predictable battle over the third and fourth licenses would dissuade most cannabis growers from pursuing the NE Mobile Bookfair property.
[email protected]
Hey Mike- you didn’t answer me. Are you that successful promoter for Aerosmith — and Megadeth and Twisted Sister and all that other heavy music stuff? Way to go, man! And isn’t it your family’s business that does all that real estate development work around the state? Rattlesnake Hill and all that? That’s huge!
With all your real estate development experience you must know what you’re talking about on how developers will wait to see if Newton gets a ban and would “pass” on Newton/NE Mobile Book Fair’s site even if it is right across from all those Avalon apartments and the new small mall. Are you saying they would go down the road to Brookline instead? Or would they just buy and option to hold the spot?
So how would the tax dollars work for Newton if they do open up on Needham Street?
One more thing: Why would an investor take a “pass” on opening a cannabis shop at the NE Mobile Book Fair site if Newton limits to 2-4? Wouldn’t that be great for them and give them a monopoly and concentrate all the business at their shop? Just like the casino land you sold in Mashpee, isn’t the name of the business game to get to be one of only a few players that gets to enter the business and can lock up a monopoly?
Needham Street is very busy so that wouldn’t that supercharge their business? Or would they have to worry about Needham Street not being able to handle all the traffic that would come off of RT128 from all the other MetroWest towns that have already banned shops in their towns?
If I had the kind of money to invest that you do, cannabis sure sounds like a business that would be made in the shade!! Guess that’s why the Globe said that MJ’s gonna be a $1Billon dollar business here in Massachsetts in 2021. Gives me a rush just thinking about the gold rush that’s taking off.
Hi Abe:
Lots of times when there are contentious community issues new folks come and post. I’m not sure what Mike’s background has to do with any of this. And you seem to be concern trolling in my opinion.
You’d be better off just stating your points and discussing things vs posting the way you did.
Personally, I always find it frustrating to have an advocate for a particular issue make personal attacks. And I can’t stand passive aggressive posting.
I argue with Mike all the time on this board. But I don’t care if he was a music promoter, a casino developer, or anything else. He’s posted here for years, folks on the board know him, and you seem to think his connections to Aerosmith and casinos make him a worse advocate. I didn’t know either fact until now. Which is disappointing since I would have been more inclined to take him for coffee if I had known he wasn’t just going to talk my ear off about high school start times.
So…what’s your next move Abe? You could always respond with an actual discussion post.
Also, Dream On is a great song.
Hi fignewtonville- I’m sure Mike appreciates you jumping to his defense, but he’s a big boy.
BTW- it can be good to know who you are defending. Have you seen how the Striar family is planning to cash in on MJ? Look at:
https://whdh.com/news/sharon-family-has-high-hopes-for-new-marijuana-market/
http://www.sentinelandenterprise.com/news/ci_30718446/striar-looking-open-lunenburg-pot-facility
I bet Mike won’t be burdened by any of the traffic the poor slubs who can only afford to buy houses (mortgaging themselves to the hilt) over on RT 9 and next to busy Washington Street and Court Street where they will get all the traffic and parking burdens, while Mike lives on a nice quite side street (Montvale) that nobody even uses for a drive through bypass in what I’m sure is a lovely a 5 bedroom $2.6M home that will remain blissfully immune from the all the “personal freedom” he wants to bring to the City with out-of-towners from all of MetroWest surroundings that are banning pot shops in their communities and will drive here to by their MJ. “Destination: Newton!”
But what can you expect from somebody who made a fortune promoting a group whose lead singer boasts of having spent $5-6M on drugs and having snorted about half of Peru. His words -not mine— enjoy watching:
https://youtu.be/AHd4wezcCtQ
@Mike — If the CCC is planning on allowing home delivery next year, why do we even need storefronts in Newton at all? If the real estate issue creates this much contention and animosity, let’s just wait and let Amazon handle it. They have to pay local taxes, so everyone will be happy!
Greg et al – Aren’t Abe’s comments out of line? They seem to me that they might be violating the comment policy.
I second MMCC. Abe is out of line
I drove down Eliott Street this past weekend and was actually surprise to see only a couple of the “No Pot Shot” signs. I’m getting the sense that it is the vocal few who are driving this debate
I think Abe and a few others are basically posting the same stuff multiple times.
As I’ve said in prior posts, I realize Abe and his fellow posters think this stuff is a smoking gun of conflicts. Relatives are going to profit from MJ. Rock bands take drugs.
Ok. Points made. Since neither item has much to do with Newton, and they “speak” for themselves, I’m not sure they add much to the conversation.
Folks, not everything is a conspiracy. Some folks just disagree with you.
And I say again, you lose more supporters than you gain by these tactics Abe.
Cheers,
Figgy
With that said, I also think it is better for Abe and others to continue to post, and folks to react to their comments. Some of this is because Mike is able to defend himself, but really we should all be able to tolerate a fair level of dissent (even angry dissent).
Better to have the conversation. And folks are passionate about important issues.
No doxxing anonymous folks and no slurs. Ideally no personal attacks too.
I think we may have hit a new low in the comments here on Village 14 – and that’s not an easy thing to accomplish. But the combination of concern trolling, conspiracy theory, and ridiculously irrelevant personal information is quite the trifecta. Completely ineffective, but whatever.
Tricia:
My take on this is that aside from stirring up a dedicated core of folks, Abe and others aren’t turning the argument to their favor.
Which is why in a few weeks they will tell us they can’t get to 6,000 signatures, and move to plan B.
Usually I come out swinging when attacked. But I thought about this for a couple of days before responding. Escalating the rhetoric serves no one. And I have sympathy for the people on the other side of this debate. I feel their passion…
It sincerely pains me that a movement I’ve been deeply involved with [cannabis reform] is causing some people to be fearful. I don’t blame anyone for trying to defend their families from something they fear. But not all fears are well founded. And history has shown that a certain degree of fear accompanies any significant social change. It generally dissipates when projections of disaster fail to materialize. Thus far that has certainly been the case with medical marijuana having been legal since 2012 and adult use since 2016. In time I believe almost everybody, including cannabis opponents, will come to see marijuana as far less harmful or dangerous than alcohol.
Earlier in the discussion I mentioned holding no financial stake in the cannabis business. That statement was 100% factual. While I do have a brother who is a State licensed cultivator, I have nothing to do with his business. I support cannabis reform because it’s an important social movement.
Wow, that’s quite a multi-million dollar operation your brother has going there -proposing $400k in annual payments to Lunenburg alone. But the selectmen in Sharon seem to say that he’d falsely promised that the product would only be medicinal and not recreational. That pretty much mimics the overall strategy of the industry as well as the discussion that’s taken place in this forum – i.e. eliciting much emotional support for something that only a heartless person would oppose (medicinal marijuana), and then quietly “evolving” the business model toward full commercialization.
Anyway, this is crony capitalism at its finest. I’m just jealous I didn’t have $10 mil and the political connections to corner this market and pursue the same social-media PR strategy a couple of years ago. It would make the Russians blush to see how easily the potheads of the 1970s were so easily snookered into supporting a capitalist movement that, at the end of the day, is the antithesis of everything they stand for.
As usual, this discussion is all about the Benjamins; what else is new.
Actually the more I read about the structuring of these marijuana corporations in Massachusetts, the more jealous I become – for not having gotten into this business sooner. The “nonprofit” status is the real genius; it allows the investors to structure the business as a pass-through entity with huge tax advantages thanks to Trump’s changes. The state legislature could not have been more accommodating to the handful of investors that have managed to get in on this. There is a TON of low-tax money to be made in this business. Kudos to all of you!
Actually, I’d truly like to know if anybody has any credible intel on the next big high-stakes “nonprofit” opportunity similar to this one? We’ve had charter schools and then marijuana…are there any other investor-led legislative adjustments currently in the works? I for one am not going to let the next one pass me by.
@Mike S.:
So you admit there are people “trying to defend their families from something they fear”. You say their fears are unfounded, but the police and MDs virtually everywhere say otherwise. Why on Earth should they believe you, but not those who they usually trust with their security and health?
And on the other side from these people, you say, is “social change”. Please Google for “glittering generality” and find the following: “A glittering generality (also called glowing generality) is an emotionally appealing phrase so closely associated with highly valued concepts and beliefs that it carries conviction without supporting information or reason”. I think it’s a very good fit for your use of “social change” in this context. Indeed, what does the trivial inconvenience of driving an extra couple of miles to get the stuff have to do with “social change”? If I’m not mistaken, we don’t have a Staples in Newton either.
My point – it’s a big deal for anybody, except the marijuana businesses of course. But we shouldn’t put their interest before people defending “their families from something they fear”, should we?
CORRECTION: it’s NOT a big deal for anybody, except the marijuana businesses
I think Trish, Fig and Mike Striar adequately responded to some of the trolling here. But as a reminder, this is a volunteer blog and the moderators are not always reading or monitoring comments in real time…or sometimes ever. If there is a comment that concerns someone, please use the “report” button. But even that is no guarantee that we will see it quickly.
The best policy, of course (as Amy Sangiolo reminds us all the time) is to be kind.
While not straight up doxxing, I think it’s creepy to put which street someone lives on in the name of being antagonistic.
I am with you MMCC. No reason for it.
Alcohol destroys far more lives than MJ does. Yet I don’t see people up in arms about getting rid of liquor stores.
It is all about the Benjamins and the liquor industry is the one looking to lose profits on a growing MJ business.
And I don’t care what Mike’s family does. I have read his posts for years and he is very passionate about what he believes in. He believes in this for good reason and it isn’t about the $$.
Although if all his posts are about the $$, I can’t figure out how he is going to cash in on the later HS start times. 🙂
It’s getting hard for me to follow and reconcile the two separate threads on this topic. Posts on this thread claim potrepeneurs who get licenses will reap huge profits. Posts on the other thread state that the revenue potential (and therefore tax generation) is grossly overstated. I’m more inclined toward Bruce Wang’s math. But we’ve got several states who preceded us into recreational that should be a template.
For me, this is a civil liberties issue first and a crime/public health/risk reduction issue second. That’s just me.
Dulles:
Agree on your last point. Also, if I thought this was a new drug I’d be more against it. But considering how often I smell it around Newtonville, I’m guessing folks have figured out it exists and where to get it….
Also, to be fair, I think the math MJ supporters are using is complete b.s. Way too rosy.
I look in despair at “this is a civil liberties issue” (Dulles et al.) and don’t get it. Could somebody please give me a Civil Liberties for Dummies lesson and explain in simple words what civil liberties the poor people of Lexington, and Wellesley, and Needham will be deprived of as a result of the pot shops ban there? Give me a hypothetical, but specific example of how civil liberties in Newton may suffer from such a ban. (No Glittering Generalities or Name-Calling please).
Anatoly,
The Civil liberties argument is used when the race card cannot be easily used. But when all else fails, bring out the race card.
@Anatoly, I’ve written about this topic before, regarding my experiences in marijuana enforcement abuse in the past. As teenagers in a sleepy smaller central MA town, my friends & I were repeatedly detained/pulled over/had our cars searched. I’ve been stuffed in a cruiser, a friend of mine was handcuffed face down on Main Street of our town — all of this in an effort by police at the time to hunt down kids with marijuana (which *none* of our group of friends used at the time).
How does this relate to retail sales? In my eyes, every retail store is another safeguard that prevents a backslide to re-criminalization and that particular abuse of power. A right is not a right if it cannot be exercised; for recreational cannabis to exist there must be a way to obtain it legally. If you look at the history of cannabis, it became illegal in the 1930s through subterfuge — US government required growers to get a tax stamp… then issued no stamps. Only when that sleight of hand trick was finally struck down by the Supreme Court 30 years later, Congress rushed in the Controlled Substances Act.
I hope this explains the civil liberty angle to you with the specificity you need.
Dulles, unfortunately it does not. You wrote, “there must be a way to obtain it legally”. If there is a way, but just outside Newton, how does it affect our civil liberties?
Dulles, “every retail store is another safeguard that prevents a backslide to re-criminalization”. Like Jewish settlements on the West Bank? Fantastic.
@ Dulles well said. I personally don’t partake but believe it is tragic the way criminalization has negatively impacted the lives of so many. Anatoly Kleyman argues the classic MIMBY sentiment.
So sick and tired of people resorting to bogus arguments about so-called Civil Liberties (maybe we should also all have the “civil liberty” to download plans for 3D plastic guns too!) and claiming that their advocacy for propagating MJ is their interest in “medicinal” and “compassionate”use (and then like Anatoly writes converting to recreational stores so they can ca$h in on even bigger profit$) and the silliness of claiming that MJ is harmless (when the FDA doesn’t regulate safety and efficacy and there are no sound science longitudinal studies to back claims of pot miracles)
So try some real science for a change and take this quiz — and SPOILER ALERT the quiz is only about the increases in cardiovascular mortality from MJ use.
https://www.mdedge.com/ecardiologynews/quiz/5160/hypertension/cardiovascular-mortality-marijuana
I don’t want vegetarians not allowing meat to be sold in Newton (the amount of tax revenue from butchers is wildly exaggerated) I don’t want teetotalers to ban the sale of alcohol in Newton (there are children who live in this neighborhood). I don’t want folks witb gluten allergies to not allow pizza to be sold in Newton (what’s the big deal if you have to drive to Waltham for your pizza?) and I don’t want folks who don’t approve of marijuana banning sale of it in Newton
If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Leave everyone else to their own business.
What Jerry said
Jerry – let’s also have kinky sex shops in Newton Centre. Don’t want anybody to be judgmental about private lives.
Abe, Anatoly, while it may be useful debate tactics to deny someone else’s point of view is legitimate, or to distract with poorly fitting analogies, or to try and keep things off-balance by switching topics, these are not useful tactics to win people to your point of view.
Is your goal to promote the merits of the ban movement, or to turn people away from it?
Dulles — how did you do on the quiz about the cardiovascular mortality impacts of MJ?
It’s only 5 questions long
What Abe said
Jerry – A smart guy said in connection with this discussion, “Every community has the right to define its own character”. I’d add, in a democratic way, selecting a decision reached by voting. You wrote, “I don’t want teetotalers to ban the sale of alcohol in Newton”. Me neither, but there are dry towns in Massachusetts where people made this choice. The residents of Sharon lost to the MJ industry, but, at least, their selectmen let them vote. The majority of our councilors tries to suppress the vote. I’m glad you dropped the civil liberties argument, and switched to the down-to-earth pizza example. I didn’t know MJ needs to be consumed hot, like pizza. But if I’m wrong, driving to Waltham would be a trouble indeed. In short, I’m here to defend the people’s right to define its community’s character, not to defeat the pot shops.
A significant majority of voters made RMJ legal in Massachusetts. While I do not partake, I know a lot of people who do. They work hard, pay their taxes, follow the laws, and raise good kids. And they would all like to be able to buy MJ as easily as the rest of us buy alcohol and cigarettes (except at pharmacies, which I helped make illegal in Newton).
As for the argument that MJ is a controlled substance, the criminalization of marijuana has racist roots, and the ongoing war on MJ exhibits incredible racial bias. Indeed, black people are 7.3 times more likely to be arrested for using MJ than white people. Not to mention that the war on MJ wastes billions of taxpayer dollars every year. So put that in your pipe (or bong) and smoke it.
We know that cigarettes and alcohol kill hundreds of thousands of Americans every year, unlike MJ, yet they are both sold legally to adults. For those who argue that the jury is still out on the risks/benefits of MJ, you cannot run away from that fact. And, in light of the ongoing opioid crisis in America, it is important to note that for many recovering opioid addicts, MJ helps them stay off narcotics.
Jerry has it just right. Live and let live. If you don’t like MJ, don’t buy it.
@Abe, the quiz is unfair; it’s too scientific for this ideological debate. Marijuana needs to be argued from a puerile point of view, especially on behalf of Newton’s commercial real-estate developers, and the upstanding RtV campaign, which has been terribly victimized by critics asking for transparency.
Jennifer had it exactly right: Home Delivery!
No zoning issues. No consumer inconvenience.
What’s wrong with that?
Lets go one step futher, lets legalize brothels in Newton. The exact same arguments for/against apply
Hurts no body
Police wont waste time pursuing johns
Provides pleasure to those want it
Regulate it to prevent abuses
Provide jobs for those who want it
@Ted – “except at pharmacies, which I helped make illegal in Newton”. I smoked cigarettes at the time, and felt irritated when the pharmacies stopped selling them. But I didn’t demand “Live and let live”, I didn’t know it’s about civil liberties.
@Ted – “war on MJ exhibits incredible racial bias”. bugek looked into a crystal ball when he wrote on this thread, “But when all else fails, bring out the race card”. I’m not disputing your statement. I’m asking why it’s here. Please avoid bringing in highly valued ideals without supporting information or reason.
Just a quick suggestion to Anatoly/Abe and others:
Time is short. You have a lot of signatures to collect. Maybe that should be your focus.
As for the quiz, I’m well aware of the good and bad of MJ. I’m also well aware of the good and bad of alcohol. And sugar. And smoking. Etc, etc.
I’m really not here to debate you. If I get more time this weekend, perhaps I’ll post more. But for most of us on this blog, this isn’t as important to us as it clearly is to you. This is not an issue I care about deeply. That’s fine. But I doubt you are convincing folks that are undecided with your posts.
My view is simple. MJ is now legal. I have no objection as such to it being sold in our community. That is my personal view based on the study of the pros and cons. Many of the items mentioned above factored into my opinion. Not just one item. You are free to disagree, and vote accordingly on the proposal on the ballot. And if you can gather those extra signatures, on your proposal as well.
I did object to any special considerations given to any ballot proposal not needing the 6000 signatures. Still do feel strongly about that. No special treatment for you or anyone else. Hence my advice to focus on signature collection.
Best,
Figgy
fignewtonville, thank you for your unceasing patronage. At my age, receiving motherly guidance is priceless. (Or is it fatherly? Sounds motherly, but why don’t you sign with your real name to get rid of the confusion?) I’m not collecting signatures and even don’t know how many (if any) remain to be collected. So, alas, I personally cannot use your advice to focus on that, but I think you can reach the people who are doing that directly. I regret that you refuse to give us “special treatment”.
You are welcome, Anatoly! Glad you are not gathering signatures. It is tough work no matter the cause. Have a nice night/weekend.