Trevor Jones reports in Wicked Local
Lt. Bruce Apotheker, a spokesman for the Newton Police Department, said there would be modifications along where the route travels through Newton, but the department is still working with local, state and federal partners to finalize their plan.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Yeah. Don’t change a thing.
@Gail,
Agreed! I just can’t imagine what they could possibly be thinking about since the route comprises a portion of Washington Street then the hills of Comm. Ave. What can they possibly modify????
I agree with Gail, [but maybe for different reasons], don’t change a thing. In my opinion, most of the changes we made after 9-11 sent the exact wrong message to terrorists, and handed them a victory of sorts. We did the same thing by shutting down the entire state in response to the marathon bombings. Our nation’s message should be loud and clear… We are the “land of the free and the home of the brave.” We will NOT allow you to terrorize us. I recognize we can’t stop terrorism. But we can sure as hell make sure they don’t succeed in changing what we stand for, or our way of life.
I agree with you Lisap, what can they possibly change? Leave it alone, its been fine for well over 100 years. And as Big Papi said, “No one dictates our freedom!”
A story in the Globe today offers more specifics, including possibly limiting/restricting back backs and coolers, more scrutiny to street vendors, creating a text tip line, etc.
I don’t have any problem with any of that.
I have no problem offering up my backpack and cooler for inspection, but limiting/restricting is offensive to me. We’ve made an afternoon of it at the corner of Grant and Commonwealth for over 30 years, and a big part of it is the picnic we bring and share with the many neighbors who also enjoy the Marathon there. This is “our F***ing City”!
I would think that after 3 people were killed and hundreds more were severely injured on Marathon Monday that it is important that the BAA and the City’s try to make sure that another incident doesn’t occur. Please dont forget it was 2 backpacks filled with pressure cooker bombs that did all this damage.
If it means that those who go to watch the Marathon are inconvenienced than so be it. It is for our own safety and those of the thousands of runners.
I agree w/ Joanne.
Don’t worry, we’ll see the National Guard here stopping cars, searching people, opening mail bins, boarding buses… I’d be disappointed if that was not the case.
And I’m afraid that I completely disagree with Joanne. This is what terror is all about. The terrorists scare the hell out of us and hope for a sustained result, in which we voluntarily erode our own freedom. “He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.” That’s what Benjamin Franklin had to say on this topic. Ben was a pretty smart guy. I think I’ll stick with his advice.
Actually Mike, I think the quote is:
I don’t consider having someone check to see what’s inside my cooler at the Marathon to be an erosion of any essential liberty.
I guess we must place different values on the Constitution, Greg. I might agree with you if we were talking about checking a cooler to enter a private building. Or maybe even to enter a public building. But just like Bloomberg’s “stop and frisk” policy in NYC, checking coolers on a public street without probable cause, is a clear violation of the Fourth Amendment. I’m not saying take no action. I’m simply saying that the actions we take, must conform to the Constitution. So seal the manhole covers and mailboxes. Add police presence. But don’t hand these terrorist a lasting victory that diminishes the foundation our country stands on.
Here’s another Franklin quote for you Mike:
I’m a lot happier knowing someone is looking out for me in a way that might reduce my chances of being harmed by a back pack bomb.
Oh and this one is pretty good too..
If I happen to be carrying a backpack during a marathon and don’t want it looked at — I’m hoping I can just decline and go back home. When I think of freedoms, I think of those lawn workers in Brookline whose boss had them operating leaf blowers two days before leaf blower regulations ended and that police asked the lawn worker (not boss) for papers and took one in when he refused. I can;t support that kind of nonsense when there is no similar public threat.
As I wrote before, Greg, we don’t view the Constitution in the same way. The Fourth Amendment doesn’t come with a “disregard” option. And I don’t really have to point out that there are [literally] countless other places for a terrorist to hide a bomb besides backpacks or coolers. Should we randomly inspect homes along the marathon route? What about cars in people’s driveways? Where does it all end???
…And I’m a very big believer that we should do everything to infringe upon individuals’ personal liberties!
Come on Mike, as Ben said “by failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail” that doesn’t mean a lock down…just reducing the risk.
We “allowed” Deval Patrick to cease passage on public roads on a day when it snowed because of what — that plowing streets might be slowed if cars were on the road?? Everyone, EVERYONE — was subject to police questioning and unwarranted personal searches if they happened to be out traveling to care for their parents or returning from work at Dunkin Donuts that day. Demanding a “say put” order is not the same as controlling what ends up in public crowds. The stay put order was an abuse of power and searches in a crowd is something different. Moreover, runners have always taken certain risks both by running and by drinking whatever is handed to them. It’s the public in crowded area that we need to protect.
So let’s be clear, Greg. In your opinion, is it okay to violate the Constitution in order to reduce the risk? Or do you not see warrantless searches with no probable cause, as a violation of the Fourth Amendment?
Restrictions on this type of warrantless search ended when you couldn’t take Ballantine Ale to a public beach (or Newton fireworks). It’s a whole new game — proof of offenses is the FBI forcing their way into a man’s home, doing searches, doing interrogations because he was associated with the accused Marathon bombers. The FBI killed him at his home. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibragim_Todashev I’ll either refuse gov’t investigation and forgive the pleasure of watching people run in shorts, or cooperate just because they need to gather any Ballentine’s or outright dangerous materials while I’m in a crowd. That is all less offensive than my my home use of a leaf blower while no one is in front of me.
Just wondering out loud if the Mother of Martin Richard who was killed on April 16 or her daughter Jane Richard who lost her leg or maybe Celeste Corcoran the Newbury St Hairdresser who lost both legs on that day are hoping that the BAA and the Police dont do anything about better and added security on Marathon Monday.
Do you think they are worrying about the Fourth Amendment ? I dont think so.
I understand your point, Joanne. And obviously we could go down the list of victims from any terrorist attack, and ask the same question. I wouldn’t blame any one of them if they said “to hell with the Constitution.” But is our system of government so weak and the rights we hold dear as Americans so disposable, that any terrorist with a box cutter or pressure cooker can change our way of life? Should we really allow terrorists to succeed in that way? I think not! The time for us to remember we are the “land of the free and the home of the brave,” is exactly at moments like this, when we are being challenged to sustain those things that make America great. Undermining our own Constitution in response to a terrorist attack, helps no one but the terrorists. After all, they are not just trying to kill and maim innocent victims, their principle goal is to destroy America. I’m of the mind that I’d prefer not to assist them in that objective.
Mike: I can’t help but think we’re talking about two different things. Did you actually read the article? what specific things among the ideas being floated infringe on your/our constitutional rights? Telling runners what size backpack they can use? Telling the guy who wants to hand out granola bars that he needs a permit? The idea that some police officer may look in my backpack and discover that I’ve brought a sweatshirt and two apples with me? Having a text tip line if I see anything suspicious? Somehow these things don’t feel like much of a sacrifice of any freedom to me. In fact, they will help me feel a little more confident when I’m out there standing and cheering that day that my odds — and the odds of every runner and bystander — of returning home with all our appendages are perhaps modestly better.
I see that as beating the terrorists too.
Well Greg, you’ve managed to lump in with a bunch of innocuous stuff, a single constitutional violation. And since you’re one of the smartest guys I know, I’m fairly certain you’re aware which one of those things conflicts with the Fourth Amendment. So I’ll take you back to my earlier question… In your opinion, is it okay to violate the Constitution in order to reduce risk? Or do you not view warrantless searches with no probable cause, as a violation of the Fourth Amendment? You can choose how you answer that question, but you can’t have it both ways.
If I choose to stand on Heartbreak Hill with thousands of runners going by, standing next to babies and toddlers and teenagers and seniors and hot dog vendors and volunteers handing out water and peoples’ pets and Hoss drinking a Ballantine, then I won’t feel any less free if a public safety person looks inside my backpack.
I have the right to not bring a bag.
I have the right to stay home and watch it on TV.
I do not feel I’ve sacrificed any of the freedoms my father fought for when he was wounded on D-Day.
I do feel a modest percentage safer.
So yeah, “Of course you can look in my bag officer. Beautiful day, isn’t it?”
Greg– I appreciate that you wouldn’t feel “less free” forgoing your Fourth Amendment rights. I’m sure you can understand that others [myself included] don’t feel the same way. I’m alarmed by the constant erosion of civil liberties since 9-11. Secret courts, warrantless wire taps, and a complete trampling of the Bill of Rights. It’s gotten to the point where I barely recognize this country anymore. Not because of anything terrorists have done to us, but because of what we’ve done to ourselves. So if you’re comfortable surrendering your rights out of fear from terrorist threats, go right ahead and do that. Before I sacrifice my rights, I’m going down swinging. Because the larger threat we face is not some terrorist with a box cutter or pressure cooker bomb. The larger threat we face, is that we forget what it means to be “American.”
Mike Striar — Was Tom Menino wrong when he cleaned up the St Patricks Day parade, Dot Day, the Esplanade and other large events with this zero tolerance for public drinking? The similarity is police did searches
Hoss– I can’t comment without knowing all the details. And I’ve never attended those events. I do attend the Marathon. But searching people without a warrant, without probable cause, at an un-ticketed event, on a public street, unquestionably violates the Fourth Amendment. I don’t think a single person on this thread has said that it doesn’t. People have become so immune to this post 9-11 erosion of rights that they either don’t pay it much mind, or willingly accept the intrusion.
I’m just catching up to this thread and I have to say: I don’t think anything in the Globe article suggests a major inconvenience or invasion of civil liberties. I would definitely object if it did. Searching backpacks at the finish line is the same as going to any other big venue. However, I don’t see how they implement it without profiling unless they set up some sort of entry point to the finish line area. Nothing wrong with a lot more law enforcement though.
As for banning coolers, etc. along the route, that’s just ridiculous. There’s no way it’s going to happen. Claiming a spot on the marathon route and spending the day there is what Marathon Day is about for a lot of people, especially those who are cheering on loved ones. I have a hard time believing anyone will make a decision that changes the identity of the Boston Marathon
It’d be a shame if they have to keep spectators at a distance from runners at the start. One of the highlights of the marathon is the high-fives that come when you’re starting off.
Since 9/11, we’ve allowed the government to chip away at our civil liberties. Each little piece taken is lost for good and before you know it, you’re on the verge of living in a police state. I agree with much of what Mike’s said on this thread. I am 100% against abuses of the constitution justified by what amounts to an illusion of security. First it’ll be backpacks and coolers and picnic baskets. Then it’ll be coats and jackets. Then it’ll be TSA checkpoints just to cross the Comm Ave carriage road. Call me paranoid, but I’m not interested in starting down this path…..