Like, I suspect, many of you, I have often wondered how the “right turn on red” law applies at Mass Pike Exit 16 in West Newton. When heading to Route 16 West, the stoplight occurs at a right bend in the road. My assumption was that this did not constitute a “right turn” but was a continuation of the road. Most drivers I observe disagree, continuing through the intersection as of the law applied (most do stop, so I’m not complaining about drivers running the red in this case). When I come to that light, I either get in the left lane so those who believe differently from me can have their right turn, or suffer the obnoxious honking of drivers impatient to experience the thrill of getting stuck in the traffic jam on Washington St. just a few hundred yards ahead.
It appears the Boston Globe Starts and Stops column agrees with me, though there is sympathy for the confusion these intersections pose:
“So, even though the road curves to the right . . . drivers are still making a ‘through movement,’ or going straight,” (MassDOT spokesperson Mike) Verseckes said. “Therefore, they must stop at the signal and may only continue on when the signal turns green.”
This reminded me of several years ago, when this same weekly column posited that a left turn on red is indeed legal entering the Pike westbound on Exit 17. Strangely, few drivers take advantage of that, while more simply blow through the light (an enforcement-needed topic for another post, perhaps).
Perhaps a minor point of law, but something I think about often enough that I was glad to see it addressed in the column. Anyone else ever think about that intersection?
Doug,
Why not join the Newton Corner activists who have been crying out for years about the traffic nightmares and lack of controls in the huge traffic mess at the MA Turnpike exit 17?
I read this article also this morning. I have always turned right on red here, because I assumed that it was a right turn from the ramp onto a road that was a continuation of westbound Washington Street which is coming from the left, not a continuation of the ramp. If it’s not a continuation of Washington, then I guess drivers on Washington can “turn right” on red to continue on the bridge across the pike, if no one is approaching from the ramp.
One thing that surprised me in this article was this sentence:
“If the light is red, many people stop here, look, and proceed as if it is a right on red,” Kelley commented. “Others will stay stopped until the light turns green because it is a red arrow. Mostly people are confused.”
Is there a red, right-pointing arrow here? I didn’t think so (and am not curious enough to run out and find out right now). If there is a red arrow here, I don’t think I would have turned here on red, because I thought that a red arrow was the same as a no turn on red sign.
Since the article mentioned the red arrow but did not give that as a reason to not turn, that led me to a bit of research: it turns out that in Massachusetts, and many other states, you can turn right on a red arrow. However, in California (where I lived and drove for many years) as well as New York, you cannot turn right on a red arrow. Good thing to keep in mind when driving out of state (I could not find a list of which states prohibited such turns).
Bruce,
I don’t think it’s an arrow there. Now I have to look again next time I go out that way. Also, I did not know that it did not matter- I tend to take red arrows literally (on a car or bike), so that is news that I can turn on those. In any case, as far as I know the right turn on red is optional (anyone, correct me if I am wrong there), though often it is good to take advantage of that turn to relieve congestion slightly (certainly the case in Newton Corner.
Janet, if there is a link to information about the group, let me know. We tend to keep track of traffic hearings and support what we think we can change, but if there is an organized effort it would be good for all of us to know about it. Newton Corner is a death trap for pedestrians.
Seems like it would useful to post a “No turn on red” sign there, to eliminate the confusion.
Agreed
We only know it to be a “continuation of a thoroughfare” because we live here. Anyone not familiar would see an interstate highway ramp intersecting with a local route. There shouldn’t be “gotchas” in policing.
I don’t think there should be gotchas either, but there should be clarity. What I see as a “no right turn,” several others see differently.
I think it’s a right-hand turn and the MassDOT spokesperson applied the rule incorrectly. The rule as stated by the Globe makes sense: “If that bend to the right puts you on a different road, it counts as a right turn.” The MassDOT spokesman said the Newton driver coming off the Mass Pike at Exit 16 “continues to travel on the same thoroughfare,” but that’s not true. At that intersection, the driver is coming off the Mass. Pike exit ramp and turning right onto the thoroughfare called both “Rt. 16” and “Washington St.” That “Rt 16 / Washington St.” thoroughfare comes from the driver’s left (from West Newton) and continues to the right (map).
If for some reason that driver exiting the Mass Pike really were to be considered “continuing to travel on the same thoroughfare,” then what would the drivers from West Newton be doing at that intersection? Turning left? Merging into a new, phantom thoroughfare?
I agree with everything all of you said, through Bruce Henderson. (Do we have two Bruces now?) Can’t remember what I do here; I don’t often go right from this ramp. I think I mostly stop because there’s ususally traffic anyway. I also thought you couldn’t turn on red arrows, and can’t remember if there’s an arrow here or not.
Thank you for writing about this issue. The following item was docketed, and will be discussed at an upcoming Traffic Council meeting:
David Koses and Patrick Baxter, requesting the addition of right turn on red signage at the
end of the I-90 ramp leading to Washington Street in West Newton.
David Koses
Traffic Council Chair
Thanks David.
Is the item requesting a “No Turn” sign, a “right on red” sign, or simply a clarification either way?
Since we have these items out, signage about the left turn on red in Newton corner heading to the pike west (I have read that is legal) would not only stem confusion there, but also remind drivers that there is actually a red light.
Sometimes not even signs help, like at the foot of Washington St. just as it enters the Circle of Death from the southeast. There is the traditional red-yellow-green traffic signal but the sign says something like “go on red after full stop”. But it’s difficult to see through the ornamental plantings in the island on your left if it’s even safe to do so to avoid collision with cars entering the same lane from Park Street unless you roll far enough out into the lane that you’re no longer able to see that the light has changed from red to green. Honking results from behind in either case.
Yeah, I agree that’s an odd place for a right on red. As a frequent pedestrian/adventurist, I find the light cycles to be odd as well.
Doug,
The following item has also been docketed for an upcoming Traffic Council meeting:
David Koses and Patrick Baxter, requesting the addition of left turn on red signage at the
entry to the I-90 westbound ramp from Washington Street in Newton Corner.
David Koses — Unless the sign said “Both lanes – Right on Red” the concept will still be confusing. The concept of “Right on Red” is not meant for a left lane driver to cross a straight lane of traffic, then proceed right. I’m not sure what fix is available Is this really a Newton road that the Traffic Comm can change?
Again, thank you David
And Hoss et al- good questions all
Apparently the Globe Starts & Stops column got plenty of mail on this one. They posted an update in yesterday’s paper – notable is their printing the news broken above- that the item is docketed for Traffic Council, and the thought that signage is perhaps the most sensible solution.
While I have professed my opinion that it is not a right turn, I don’t mind either way, as long as there is signage to erase confusion.
This may have been “fixed” for months, but I just noticed this morning that there is now a sign here that says “Right turn on red after stop from right lane only”.
As I came to a complete stop in the right lane for the red light and took perhaps an extra half second to digest the sign, the car to my left sailed right on through without stopping. Perhaps an overly-literal interpretation of the sign is that the left lane can turn right on red without stopping but I don’t think traffic court would swallow that one.
(Surprised these old threads are open for comment still!)
Bruce,
I did see your comment and am belatedly acknowledging- thanks. I guess I had not been through that intersection in a while, but after seeing your comment, I did go and noticed the new sign. Much better that it is clear- obviously (and I know this from living in Newton Corner) that does not prevent drivers idiotically blowing the red light from the left lane.