We don’t have a lot of rules here at Village 14, but we do ask that all bloggers treat each other with respect. That means no name calling, no swearing, no YELLING IN UPPER CASE, etc. Treat each other as you would want to be treated. Better yet, treat each other as you would want others to treat your family members.
Comments that don’t meet this criteria will and have been removed.
You generally get more with honey than with vinegar
Thank you!
Just for the record, I agree with the sentiment, but disagree with the policy. I think the Village 14 blog should be encouraging uncensored, frank and open dialogue. Generally, things like “name-calling” lose a debate pretty fast, by revealing a lack of substance in one’s argument. But then there are the passionate comments that might be offensive or insulting to a public figure. For example, my comment on the “Fleishman on Newton School security” thread. I hope we don’t start limiting those types of comments, because that goes to the essence of free speech.
Do we all get a participation award also? We are all number 1!! Yeah!!!!
I suspect there was some reaction to the use of a 4-letter word in one of the posts.
I too agree with leaving up posts, and the insults were directed at me. I welcome someone to make baseless accusations about me and my character. It doesn’t make me look bad or hurt my feelings if someone else wants to act like a child.
I’m kind of two minds on this. I think I see the response to the comment(s) that were pulled down, so we’re left with one side of a conversation.
Still, I completely agree with the sentiment and guideline
The comment in question was pulled down and it did, indeed, contain the f-bomb directed at somebody. Our informal policy on the TAB blog was always that politicians were fair game for public criticism — regardless of how scathing — as were Greg and I. But we never let anyone swear at anyone else. I think the same should hold here. I’ll consult with the Village 14 Charter Review Committee and get back to everybody for a vote in 18 months.
I going to take back what I wrote above about writing in upper case though.
If you can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen As a public official who gets called all sorts of things on the blog (some of which are true), I won’t participate if I can’t call someone a horse’s ass when they are acting like one. Just my two cents.
I will say I use upper case to emphasize, not to yell. Italics doesn’t seem to work in this bulletin program, at least not easily.
I think you should set up a “Village 14 Compliments” Facebook page so people can channel their inner Maxwell Smart. Sort of like this. If only they would use the blog for niceness instead of evil.
Boy, you leave for a day or two and the excitement you miss!
You gotta love this blog. We can’t even agree on whether to be nice or not!
Alright, move along. Nothing to see here. Please disperse.
Civility is good. I have no data to back this up, but it is my suspicion that the more base the conversation gets, the fewer women participate or even read it. (And I think it’s good to have more women participating)
When people start name calling and swearing, I bow out because it’s clear that from that point forward things will be all heat and no light. Heated discussions of issues are great. If you believe in your position, you can vigorously defend it without calling people names and cursing.
That’s it – I’m calling Bob tomorrow to get the real scoop. He knows everything.
Lack of civility has an honored and entertaining past in the realm of public debate. If we cut back on this, why, we might lose all of our readers!
(All similarities between this link and any of our regular posters is purely coincidental).
I stand by what I said. 68 more back and forth civil comments with no one really challenging soldier boy because we have to be accepting of all points of view got real old for me. Him cutting and pasting the NRA manual was getting old and I wanted to have some fun because the rest of you were boring the piss outta me with not taking it straight to him.
Heat in the virtual world is no big deal, just be willing to have a beer and a few laughs together in the real world.
Kim and Mike (not Striar) can buy a round at the next Blogger’s night out.
I’m glad Kim stands by his comments. I think while many here disagree with me they see where I am coming from, and also see that I am not parroting the NRA as I have suggested many things that I disagree with which they said. However you have offered NO input regarding the topic, other than to call me a “fucking clown” “mouthpiece” “soldier-boy” “non-thinker” “not exactly a brain surgeon.”
Who looks immature and like they don’t have a valid argument at this point? I am happy to address or try to answer any concerns you may have from my perspective, which is just that, my perspective. MANY have suggested armed guards/teachers in schools before, including Bill Clinton. It has been instituted without issue in various parts of the country, in Utah for over 12 years. It is regular policy in Israel. All you do is hurl insults. Go ahead, offer your perspective as to why I am wrong, but give a little buttress to your position if you can. Or just keep insulting me… It’s laughable.
Mike
Deleting a comment w/ the f-word is very suburban … I’m a believer in civil discourse — allowing for a certain amount of profanity, within reason — as is a reminder for play nice, but c’mon . Most readers are over 18 and should tolerate democracy. Let people have there say, in what ever (expressive) way.
i say let it ride….
Terry – wouldn’t it be good to see some school-aged kids here? After all, what’s a village without children? Seriously, I think this blog would be very good reading for a teen wanting to know about the issues that matter to Newton residents. If it had started when my son was still living at home, I would have had him read it as part of his education.
@mgwa: I doubt that kids would be very shocked by any profanity they’d see here. But I think that Emily has a good point:
I haven’t actually counted but I believe more men participate in this blog than women. I’d hate to see women decide not to participate in a substantive conversation because a few people can’t/won’t refrain from hurling profane insults at each other.
Women don’t swear?
Women don’t typically put themselves in situations (virtual or otherwise) where men swear at them in anger.
I agree with Emily.
“Terry” can be short for “Theresa”. Perhaps Terry Malloy is actually a woman? There is some gorgeous flowing blond hair in that avatar….
@Gail – I already agreed w/Emily earlier in the thread. I run a (mostly, but not all, female) parenting email list and we have strict rules about civility (no flaming, no personal attacks). It has become a wonderful community and people regularly thank me for creating a place where there can be discussions by people of opposing views without fear of attacks.
Like you, I doubt kids would be shocked – I was just responding to the claim that they aren’t here. And, for that matter, I would like to have a place that was an example for kids of how one can have a civil conversation with people who don’t share your views – which Village 14 does manage to do some of the time.
@Jane– You post a lot. Has anyone on Village 14 or the Tab Blog ever sworn at you in anger? I’ve given people countless reasons to swear at me, yet don’t recall anyone ever doing that. This medium is a forum for the free flowing exchange of ideas. In my opinion that’s its purpose. “Civility” [like everywhere else in society] should be left to the individual participant[s]. Again, just my opinion, but I think the minute you start name calling or swearing on a blog, you lose your argument. It reveals a lack of substance. Why not just leave it at that?
I believe this was due to Kims comments directed at me. I’ve been called worse 😉
Mike
Kim is a friend of mine, and I can tell you he’s a passionate guy. He’s also one of the best posters on these blogs. I don’t think he helped his argument in this particular case, but he should have the right to state his position anyway he wants. I just don’t think we need a Village 14 PC Police Department. If we did, then we’d have to debate whether they should be armed or not;]
I agree with you about not needing a PC police. He just repetitively insulted me as he ran out of things (never had anything) to say. He even did so in this post. I’m all about leaving baseless insults up. If that is how someone wants to represent themselves, they should have at it.
Mike
There’s no necessity to resort to course language to express one’s opinion effectively, and if such coarse language dissuades women [or men] from reading or participating on the blog that’s a real loss. I’m perfectly capable of using the very language that we’re discussing but know when to and not to.
There are other less coarse ways to cause civil discourse to degenerate. I have seen a number of bloggers here and elsewhere–male and female–make plenty of defamatory, unsubstantiated remakrs about the motives or personal characteristics of others, or spread gossipy little tidbits and the like, without ever uttering one of the seven words you cannot say on television. As an occasional target (and I will admit to perhaps even being an occasional dealer) of such passive-aggressive insults, I can tell you they are no more or less hurtful than “name calling,” “swearing,” or “YELLING IN UPPER CASE.”
You all know who you are. Let s/he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Mike Striar-Of course no one’s sworn at me on a local blog. The women here are merely telling the men that they don’t feel safe when there’s a lot of anger and swearing. After reading the posts on this thread, it appears we have a gender gap on this issue.
As for Ted’s point, when you dish it you should expect to receive it. That just goes with the territory.
@Jane, people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Wait, you don’t feel safe when using a fake name and having someone call you a bad name? I think new Mike is completely wrong in his arguments, but if Kim called me names it would just make me…giggle. We are on a blog folks. And most of us use fake names. It encourages a bit of bluster/blowhardness.
I’m not saying that I approve of the bad language or the insults, I think it distracts from the discourse. But can we dispense with this thread? Every blog seems to do this once and a while, the discourse here is fine (better than most blogs for sure) and there are always a few folks who seem to be concern trolling about said discourse.
I amazingly enough agree with Ted on the glass houses. And I never seem to agree with Ted. So that is either a sign of the apocolapse, or a symptom that there really isn’t much of a controversy here except in a few folks minds.
Carry on…
Take heart, Fignewtonville. As I often say, a stopped clock is right at least twice a day. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, apocalypses, or the end of the 13th Baktun. Life goes on, sing O-bla-di-bla-da.
I leave you all with this parting thought.
Be excellent to each other.
Happy New Year.
Fig-I also agree with Ted on the glass houses. Perhaps I should have stated it as “when one dishes it…”.
Good to have you back again.
Party on, dudes!
I feel the need to clarify: Despite my gender, people can swear at me all they want. It won’t keep me away. Much worse has been tried in other forums.
It’s not that I worry about women not feeling safe here. It’s that I think they won’t bother with a forum they find too boorish.
Mike and Mike (not Striar) are both correct. I have not done anything to make my point and I know my posts are ‘immature.’ This is kinda what I do at times and veteran bloggers know this about me.
I absolutely know that Soldier Boy and I would enjoy beers together at the next bloggers meeting because he seems to have his head screwed on right no matter how foul his views on guns are. LOL.
Both Gail and Greg privately email me when I cross the line and I never fight back. I know when I do it and it’s completely intentional. I love this blog.
I’ve encouraged many women with valuable knowledge and/or perspective to post on the local blogs and most often the response has been some version of “No, it’s too angry.” Good for Gail if she doesn’t mind being sworn at by strangers but the last time it happened to me, the guy ended up in a Boston courtroom. No need to elaborate, but I learned that that level of anger can escalate to a “much worse” set of circumstances.
By the way, I know Kim and think he’s smart, funny, and very engaging. And a clown 😉
@Kim. You are anything but a clown, but you got me to adopt the term in reference to certain political figures and talk show hosts when I’m posting on the highly read daily blogs of the Globe, NYT, and Washington Post. It’s a bit more refined than other terminology I could use. Actually, I get a whole lot of “likes”
for my occasional clown postings.
I have to say, I’ve been using the term “clown” for a while so I don’t think Kim deserves full credit for it. I’m sorry if my “correct” views on guns are foul to your Newton ears/eyes 😉
As I said, I don’t offend easily. By all means challenge my opinions and thoughts which are surely in the minority (when it comes to guns anyway) in Newton. If you want to insult me, that’s fine too, but at least give me something to work with at the same time. If it makes you guys feel any better I fully support most liberal social philosophies, to include the government “effing off” when it comes to how good people protect themselves or in determining who gets to marry who.
As far as women being discouraged from entering discourse because it can be hostile, those particular women (or men for that matter) probably have no place engaging in that discourse in the first place. Don’t use your gender/upbringing us a crutch, it won’t make anyone less relentless in pounding your unsupported arguments into the ground, no matter what the argument happens to be. I agree that it isn’t productive to mindlessly insult people, but if your wrong and can’t prove otherwise, too bad.
Clown can pretty much be appropriately applied to 99% of politicians. So can a bunch of other terms for that matter, but I don’t want to burn out the censors.
Mike
Mike (not S) – The joke is that Kim’s called just about everyone around here a “clown” at some point or another, and we all get along very well. It’s just a bit of blog history. Just an FYI, if anyone happens to call you a crackpot, don’t take it personally.
This thread has been interesting in revealing the different perceptions and perspectives that people have about communicating in a mass forum and what constitutes “offensive” and what does not, as well as what place “offensive language” has or doesn’t have in a discussion.
Basically, there isn’t an agreement because not one of us really can tell others what they should or shouldn’t be feeling offended about or intimidated by. It simply is what it is.
That said, I do think it is the host(ess)’s prerogative to define some standard of civility he/she deems appropriate for the resource he/she is providing … and I believe Gail was simply making that request and I don’t imagine Sean or Greg would’ve let her start this thread if they objected to her request.
@Greer: I agree that offensive is in the eye (ear?) of the offended but as for this…
In all the years we’ve known each other, I’ve never told Gail what she can or can’t write. I doubt she’s listen anyway, which is one of the many things I admire about her. More importantly, all of the thread starters on this blog are responsible for their threads. The responsibility for moderating comments here is shared.
Oh and all that said, Gail did the right thing removing that comment.
I don’t know about the exact post. I tune in and out of this blog, but read this whole thread. What I will say is that “civility” is in the eye of the beholder. Per Greer’s point, the hosts of a medium get to put down the rules, but they need to be clear. Personally, I don’t agree with the outright ban of the word “you” as a way of discouraging personal attacks on the Newtonparents listserve, because there are many instances in which it is used conversationally and not directed at a specific “you”. But, as a member of the community, I understand that this is the rule, and it is an easy standard to understand. Sure sounds like there should just be a ban on f-bombs and four letters words on V-14. Easy to understand and objectively enforce.
Also, I must say that I really take issue with Alderperson Emily and Educator Jane’s “fairer sex” type comments about female participation if the language gets coarse or things get combative. Who are these delicate flowers that need ultra-polite circumstances in order to participate? In the rest of the world, this is why men go off and play golf or go duck hunting so that they can leave the stifling etiquette of the front parlor to “the ladies”. It means that their female business associates aren’t there when the connections and deals are made and lose out on promotions and power. So, women, please don’t make civility about gender, or cling to some kind of moral high ground while the world and its power operates on man-rules. It is so self-defeating.